What is #Pizzagate?

[tapitsbo]

Lord knows what kindsa profiling I've incurred for such petty pondering...

[coffin_dodger]

When Zuckerberg said there would be no more privacy any more - and we all went 'boo hiss' - well, it turns out that the System is able to monitor our every move - but, and it's a big old but - the information gained from that form of extreme intelligence comes at a rather high price

For yes, there is no. For right, there is wrong. For up, there is down. For dark, there is light.

It gets to see us.

And we get to see it.

Most of us are not going to like it.

[tapitsbo]

Seems to me that we don't get to see IT, actually... (what's happening? IT?)

[Novem5er]

For the record, I have nothing against Guruilla or any other poster that I've conflicted with. I don't read his post (or any others) with animosity. As I've pointed out to him in the past, some of his posts show good insight.

Where I have a problem is when a poster immediately calls into question the motivation or intelligence of those who disagree. I also take issue when posters call on the "opposition" to disprove an accusation and then throw the snark and derision when that proof is impossible to provide.

Wading through that is work that's already been done here for a patient watcher such as yourself, in my humble opinion.

AN investigation of supposed Pizzagate perps such as Alefantis and Brock surely couldn't hurt?

These guys are maybe innocent, right?

"We're from the Department of Pedo Profiling, show us your art collection or be subject to arrest."

Truly terrifying.

Yes, quite terrifying. I'm reminded of my high school years listening to rock music. High school subcultures form around what kind of music kids listen to, and so often in the 90's, in the South, it was the Far Right Christian Country Boys versus us Alternative Skater Kids. Of course, Marilyn Manson was taboo. White Zombie was taboo. Henry Rollins Band, Danzig, Primus, Slayer, Pantera, Rage Against the Machine: all verboten.

I mean, look at this album art.


Heaven forbid teenagers listen to such devilish influences! Well, we did and we were shunned. Socially prosecuted. Bullied. And now it feels like those same social fascists grew up, went online, and are continuing their purge of anything that questions or threatens their white, conservative, Christian power structure. Now, I'm glad the alt-right is against pedophilia. I'm glad Christians are, too. However, I'm willing to bet that most White Zombie or Marilyn Manson fans are also against it.

I'd like to see prosecution of actual criminals, not crowd-sourced accusation of painters, musicians, and logo designers.

[tapitsbo]

Disprove an accusation?

There's no accusation coming from me, personally.

There's a lot of bizarre material that hasn't exactly been explained (and we've been discussing it for weeks and weeks and weeks)

Clintons/Podestas/Kissinger/Brock/Alefantis/Epstein/etc. ain't logo designers... they are powerful people who leave a bizarre trail of strangeness behind them...

One thing I know is that before "Pizzagate" these topics weren't framed as "alt-right". Jeff Wells' site wasn't "alt-right"... and so on.

One of the biggest messages of the "old RI" as I understand it was that "Satanic Panic" was a psy-op frame to discredit scrutiny of organized abuse, mind control, social engineering and related topics...

Nov3mb3r I hear what you're saying but it does sound a little like the Satanic Panic explanation for those odd cases like McMartin/Franklin et al.

[slomo]

For the record, I have nothing against Guruilla or any other poster that I've conflicted with. I don't read his post (or any others) with animosity. As I've pointed out to him in the past, some of his posts show good insight.

Where I have a problem is when a poster immediately calls into question the motivation or intelligence of those who disagree. I also take issue when posters call on the "opposition" to disprove an accusation and then throw the snark and derision when that proof is impossible to provide.

Wading through that is work that's already been done here for a patient watcher such as yourself, in my humble opinion.

AN investigation of supposed Pizzagate perps such as Alefantis and Brock surely couldn't hurt?

These guys are maybe innocent, right?

"We're from the Department of Pedo Profiling, show us your art collection or be subject to arrest."

Truly terrifying.

Yes, quite terrifying. I'm reminded of my high school years listening to rock music. High school subcultures form around what kind of music kids listen to, and so often in the 90's, in the South, it was the Far Right Christian Country Boys versus us Alternative Skater Kids. Of course, Marilyn Manson was taboo. White Zombie was taboo. Henry Rollins Band, Danzig, Primus, Slayer, Pantera, Rage Against the Machine: all verboten.

I mean, look at this album art.


Heaven forbid teenagers listen to such devilish influences! Well, we did and we were shunned. Socially prosecuted. Bullied. And now it feels like those same social fascists grew up, went online, and are continuing their purge of anything that questions or threatens their white, conservative, Christian power structure. Now, I'm glad the alt-right is against pedophilia. I'm glad Christians are, too. However, I'm willing to bet that most White Zombie or Marilyn Manson fans are also against it.

I'd like to see prosecution of actual criminals, not crowd-sourced accusation of painters, musicians, and logo designers.

You know what offends me? Bad Spanish grammar.

[FourthBase]

Again, about the art...

There is a qualitative world of difference between 1) some RA survivor creating art therapeutically or some art school depressive being obsessed with a grim RA motif, versus 2) some DC power elites who hobnob with the Epsteins and Clintons of the world obsessed with the same art. CAN WE STOP FORGETTING THIS DISTINCTION, PLEASE. If you don't socialize with creepy power elites, no one is going to suspect you of anything just because of your taste in art, however disturbing the art.

[Novem5er]

Disprove an accusation?

There's no accusation coming from me, personally.

There's a lot of bizarre material that hasn't exactly been explained (and we've been discussing it for weeks and weeks and weeks)

Clintons/Podestas/Kissinger/Brock/Alefantis/Epstein/etc. ain't logo designers... they are powerful people who leave a bizarre trail of strangeness behind them...

One thing I know is that before "Pizzagate" these topics weren't framed as "alt-right". Jeff Wells' site wasn't "alt-right"... and so on.

One of the biggest messages of the "old RI" as I understand it was that "Satanic Panic" was a psy-op frame to discredit scrutiny of organized abuse, mind control, social engineering and related topics...

Nov3mb3r I hear what you're saying but it does sound a little like the Satanic Panic explanation for those odd cases like McMartin/Franklin et al.

I hear what you are saying, too. I also agree with it. Podesta seems creepy. I don't like Clinton and I think she IS involved in international dirty dealing. It's a stretch, to me, to believe that they are involved in international child trafficking, but it's not THAT far of a stretch. It's in the realm of possibility, if not probability.

My point about the logo designers and mural painters and the music bands performing at Cosmic Pizza is that they are 99% probably just artists and that art has been used to accuse Podesta et al. "Oh, the artists may be innocent, but it's the COLLECTING of such art that is suspicious!". That's still a frightening movement to take hold in society. It reminds me of high school. Who cares if Rob Zombie is actually a satanist, if the teenagers who listen to him are? And, of course, since Satanists are evil, they are probably already guilty of such things as animal cruelty, homosexuality, and all sorts of depravity, up to and including pedophilia, right? See, no.

One of the biggest messages of the "old RI" as I understand it was that "Satanic Panic" was a psy-op frame to discredit scrutiny of organized abuse, mind control, social engineering and related topics...

This is exactly the danger of Pizzagate. It has become an alt-right movement, whereas before it was a universal issue taken up by people across many spectrums. Why is it alt-right now? Because of the source of the investigation and the source of its propagation. Not to mention the political nature and beliefs of 4chan /pol/ and the Reddit communities that took it up. "Drain the Swamp (of pedophile liberals)!"

And I hate speaking against Pizzagate because it feels like I'm denying the existence of evil people and child abusers or that I'm defending Podesta or Clinton. Neither is the case, but that's the problem with these types of "with us or against us" inquiries.

@ Slomo, I never said it was smart music

[OP ED]

Again, about the art...

There is a qualitative world of difference between 1) some RA survivor creating art therapeutically or some art school depressive being obsessed with a grim RA motif, versus 2) some DC power elites who hobnob with the Epsteins and Clintons of the world obsessed with the same art. CAN WE STOP FORGETTING THIS DISTINCTION, PLEASE. If you don't socialize with creepy power elites, no one is going to suspect you of anything just because of your taste in art, however disturbing the art.

This is a fair point, but you could stop short of saying "no one".

(That album is alright if you like music for driving really fast while skipping school)

[Novem5er]

Again, about the art...

There is a qualitative world of difference between 1) some RA survivor creating art therapeutically or some art school depressive being obsessed with a grim RA motif, versus 2) some DC power elites who hobnob with the Epsteins and Clintons of the world obsessed with the same art. CAN WE STOP FORGETTING THIS DISTINCTION, PLEASE. If you don't socialize with creepy power elites, no one is going to suspect you of anything just because of your taste in art, however disturbing the art.

So what you're saying is that the art itself is not an indicator of perversion or criminality, but rather it's a person's association with the Clintons and Epstein (both creepy, I agree). So if this is the case, then why try to use the art as evidence at all?

@ OP ED, hell yeah! Although Astro-Creep 2000 was my personal favorite at the grand age of 16.

[Nordic]

Again, about the art...

There is a qualitative world of difference between 1) some RA survivor creating art therapeutically or some art school depressive being obsessed with a grim RA motif, versus 2) some DC power elites who hobnob with the Epsteins and Clintons of the world obsessed with the same art. CAN WE STOP FORGETTING THIS DISTINCTION, PLEASE. If you don't socialize with creepy power elites, no one is going to suspect you of anything just because of your taste in art, however disturbing the art.

So what you're saying is that the art itself is not an indicator of perversion or criminality, but rather it's a person's association with the Clintons and Epstein (both creepy, I agree). So if this is the case, then why try to use the art as evidence at all?

@ OP ED, hell yeah! Although Astro-Creep 2000 was my personal favorite at the grand age of 16.

Why? Because most people are going to look at art of abused children tied up en masse in bathrooms with their buttocks bright red from whatever they've been subjected to, and art of children's dead-eyed bodies lying in swamps, and poor skinny children hanging up in shower stalls and think "why the FUCK would you want that hanging in your house/office/poolroom unless you are either a fucking sicko or you think it's "cool" to ironically celebrate your acceptance of the reality of organized pedophilia abuse. I mean it's supposedly a free country and all but these people make their RICHES literally from "perception management." They know exactly how this "looks"! And they don't care. It's almost like they are thrusting this into people's faces in a rebellious way, like "hey we're such PR badasses we can collect art that would make Josef Mengele blush and people still will hire us!"

I mean that's at the very least.

At the worst, well, everything pizzagate believers suspect them off. Does the truth fall somewhere in between?

What did Podesta do on his trip with Dennis Hastert? "Fishing and Camping" maybe? Is anyone naive enough to believe nobody knew about Hastert's secrets? He was like Liberace or Truman Capore. Or Elton John. Or Jimmy Saville. Everybody fucking knew.

Podesta is guilty as hell. Of something. A lot. What we're arguing about are the details.

And I have to say it really rubs me the wrong way that people here seem to be of the opinion that somehow we should "tone it down" due to "gosh we don't know how crazy people might respond". RI is RI. This is what we do. It's what we've always done.

At the same time my admiration and respect and affection for PW is extraordinarily high.

So I'm conflicted.

But I don't think we should censor ourselves as far as basic research and brainstorming. As long as we're not coming to actual conclusions and and making accusations that we're not able to back up.

I almost wish this site was totally private. I tend to forget that it isn't. Maybe we all do.

[82_28]

It's like leaving your house unlocked in a big city and nobody ever breaks in. Or lets themselves in.

[Nordic]

Here's serial boy-molester Denis Hastert with his buddy Buck McKeon at UCLA.

One's a D and one's an R, but they'll always be BFF!!

Fishing and camping. With Buck.

WTF.

I mean it's all so fucking weird.

http://digital.library.ucla.edu/website ... ry.asp.htm



Here's a Uncle Buck with a bunch of Iraqi kids in 2003.

Anyone ever look into how many children were missing from Iraq after we fucked that country? Libya? Syria? We know Dyncorp had a pipeline going of underage sex slaves.




Does any of this mean Buck is guilty? We know he's guilty of covering up for Hastert. They all were. We know they all were literally responsible for the Rape of Iraq. They all were. They conspired to lie and deceive in order to destroy a country and kill hundreds of thousands of people, a hell of a lot of them children . All of them.

Does this mean Buck is a child molester? Is it proof? Hell no.

But these are the most evil people alive on earth right now.

Why should we let up? Why should we "assume innocence"? We cannot because they are not. They are monsters. We know plenty of reasons why they are mobsters. It's not something you can argue about. We're only arguing about the details of their crimes.

We are not "going after" innocent people.

[OP ED]

That's a better point.

[OP ED]

It's like leaving your house unlocked in a big city and nobody ever breaks in. Or lets themselves in.

That's because it's Canadian.