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The most unbelievable part for me so far is that these two are straight men.

My first question to the two men would be, "Did you take any snapshots?" Tourists visiting a famous cathedral usually take pictures and I'd expect these two to have some on their phones or cameras.

Surely there's CCTV coverage of the cathedral which would show them if they were there, and they did challenge the Brits to produce some footage.


Recently heard about how Russians don't smile. If you're on the street in Moscow and smiling for no apparent reason, people regard you as suspicious (or just crazy).


ON EDIT: From OffGuardian thread Mac posted abive:

Finn Olsen

September 14, 2018

Petrov and Borishov say they took pictures while being at the Salisbury Cathedral. If we can see some of these, their story will sound much more plausible.

RELATED:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/13/chemical-weapons-expert-arrested-police-taken-devon-home/

Chemical weapons expert arrested after police 'taken ill' at Devon home

by Telegraph Reporters
13 September 2018 • 5:07pm


Police called to the home of a chemical weapons expert in Devon had to be treated after feeling unwell, it has been reported.

Devon and Cornwall police said officers who attended an address in Bideford on Wednesday morning were treated by the Hazardous Area Response Team and the property was cordoned off.

Specialist officers were called to examine a number of items seized from the house and an Explosive Ordnance Disposal team was deployed.

A retired research scientist named by The Sun as Dr Chris Busby was held by police who had responded to concerns for the safety of a woman. Police sources confirmed a 73-year-old man had been detained under the explosives act.

Mr Busby is a regular expert for Russian state sponsored channel RT and has previously claimed Britain may be behind the Salisbury poisoning. The arrest is not thought to be connected to the nerve-agent attack on Russian double-agent Sergei Skripal.

Military bomb disposal specialists were called to the scene in Bideford, Devon


Although Mr Busby's house was evacuated there was thought to be no risk to the wider public. A statement from Devon and Cornwall police said: 'Whilst at the address, some of our officers complained of feeling unwell and were immediately removed from the scene and a cordon put in place'.

The Telegraph understands the officers were overcome by the foul state of the house, which possibly contained poorly husbanded home maintenance products. It is thought likely the arrested man would be released shortly.

Stilton gone off? Spoiled fish?

I've been as skeptical as anyone but that RT interview was... well... ridiculous. Mechanically listing the dimensions of the Salisbury cathedral spire... And the TOO MUCH SNOW gambit regarding their sudden movements around Britain? C'mon. And yes, and the famous "Straight Guys Don't Carry Nina Ricci Around Or They Will Be Stopped at Airports" defense.

Random thought of the day:

The Ukrainians did it.
They fucking hate Russia and used to be part of the Soviet Union, so might have access to fun stuff developed at that time.

Things to look for if the above is the case: "Russia" using nerve agents against Ukrainian soldiers or civilians.

(This is pure speculation with nothing to back it up).

Lines get blurry there, though. If an attack came from inside Ukraine, I couldn't rule out the possibility that it was Kremlin orchestrated.

But this is probably not the thread to get into that discussion. A whole other thing.

Am I sensing a sea-change here? Are some of my uber-skeptical friends here on RigInt beginning to come around to the fact that the Russians may, indeed, be behind the Skripal poisonings?

J.

Perhaps, perhaps. Although not in the way you're getting at. And you may not want me on your side, anyway; my purely speculative analysis makes the West look worse than if I thought it was a Western op. At least if it were a Western op, Western intel would look somewhat competent, and not like the Keystone Kops of Scotland Yard getting tricked by Boris Badinov.

Either way: in the West, cognitive dissonance rules the day. Truth is not truth. Here's my most recent post on the subject from the other Skripal thread:

How about a third narrative? The entire op was to fake an assassination. Amateur assassins act in amateur fashion deliberately, leaving breadcrumbs. British intel look like dopes for letting it happen, then double-dopes for falling for the bait. And triple-dopes for continuing on their present course in a futile attempt to save face. A damage control scramble.

In this narrative, the damage control scramble effect is the point of the op. The intel agency struggle for narrative control is inside the real narrative. But who has narrative control has not changed, from before op to present.

To consider this third narrative, one has to set aside any assumptions of Kremlin innocence, as well any assumptions that British intel has any idea what hit them. One of the advantages of this narrative would be that most people can't even entertain it, can't consider that this 'push-and-pull between two lesser narratives' only takes place within the narrative, a narrative of the one who set it in motion. It seems too outlandish. I mean, who could be that clever?

edited to add: Just want to add that I'm being additive here, not subtractive. Presenting an alternative perspective into the mix, not out for narrative domination.

My general criticism:

To you, Champions of the Rational, I say that somewhere on your common sense crusade you have lost sight of what is important, becoming callous and insensitive. Because you all seem to have forgotten who suffered the most terrible injustice, here. Sergei Skripal's poor cat and guinea pigs were killed on two separate occasions. Flushed right down the memory hole, and no one seems to care. But I will never forget.

Whatever may be the truth, warmongering is STILL not the answer.

And Western intelligence agencies or political establishments will NEVER have my confidence. Never. Same goes of course for the Russian ones, but that is something that goes without saying over here in the Free, Democratic West (tm), amirite. N'est-ce pas?

The speculation that Boshirov and Petrov are gay lovers makes the most sense to me so far; they would not want this known in homophobic Russia, explaining their otherwise odd reticence. It looks as if they take frequent getaway trips together, possibly combining sightseeing with their supplement business or whatever it is. And has it not been shown that Stonehenge was closed that day due to the snow? All in all, they weren't behaving like assassins on a mission.

RocketMan » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:23 am wrote:Whatever may be the truth, warmongering is STILL not the answer.

And Western intelligence agencies or political establishments will NEVER have my confidence. Never. Same goes of course for the Russian ones, but that is something that goes without saying over here in the Free, Democratic West (tm), amirite. N'est-ce pas?

Yes, it's best to keep the warmongering to a minimum, if possible. Some sabre-rattling is always to be expected, though. Good for ratings.

What I'm trying to get at is I guess what would be called the optics in this particular situation. Blaming Western Intel makes the West look bad, the Kremlin look good. Blaming the Kremlin makes Western Intel look like fools, and the Kremlin look like super duper spies. West looks bad, Kremlin looks good. Truth doesn't need to be factored in, no matter how one looks at it the West is in a position of total narrative disadvantage.

RocketMan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:50 pm wrote:I've been as skeptical as anyone but that RT interview was... well... ridiculous. Mechanically listing the dimensions of the Salisbury cathedral spire... And the TOO MUCH SNOW gambit regarding their sudden movements around Britain? C'mon. And yes, and the famous "Straight Guys Don't Carry Nina Ricci Around Or They Will Be Stopped at Airports" defense.

RocketMan, I'm Scottish, you're Norwegian, so we're both familiar with those popular open-air cafes where hordes of happy customers happily rainbathe in the freezing sleet. Right? Soft southerners are amazed at the sight, but we, like the Russians, just have that hardiness in our blood. When those hailstones dilute our Chablis, we just grin and say Skål! or Sláinte! Having wet feet is something we northerners all particularly adore, it's great fun. Right? We're only happy when our teeth are chattering and our extremities turn blue. Double pneumonia is our delight. It's a rite of passage for our kids.

Wrong, of course. It gets really soul-destroying, having to contend with this kind of confident fact-free "ROTFL Russians put off by snow !! Waht a crock!! "-style punditry, especially when I posted the evidence of the actual weather situation during Skripal Weekend just one page back. Here it is again, again, again:



- from the Salisbury Journal’s liveblog on 4 March.

The weather was dreadful in Wiltshire that weekend. Traffic disrupted. Roads impassable. Buses cancelled. Stonehenge closed to visitors. Dismal, sleety weather. Wind-chill factor was, I think, exactly - 17°F.

I've never seen a Yank without a cowboy hat. Mexicans, by contrast, all wear sombreros.

Don't get me started on the Gloomy Danes, da Fightin' Irish, and the Ethopians' well-known love of a good strong drought. (Heat never bothers 'em, they're African, ffs.) The French are addicted to frogs' legs, but they're also terribly sophisticated. Ooh là là! Not to be trusted, though.

Travel broadens the mind, especially when you do it via American TV.

Elvis » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:27 am wrote:The speculation that Boshirov and Petrov are gay lovers makes the most sense to me so far; they would not want this known in homophobic Russia, explaining their otherwise odd reticence.

Yes.

It looks as if they take frequent getaway trips together, possibly combining sightseeing with their supplement business or whatever it is. And has it not been shown that Stonehenge was closed that day due to the snow?

Yes.

All in all, they weren't behaving like assassins on a mission.

Precisely.

Thank you.

Interestink. Maybe I'm just tired.

And I'm Finnish, by the way. And I don't know if we're as hardy as we put out. Anyway, interesting counterpoint, thanks.

MacCruiskeen » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:51 pm wrote:

RocketMan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:50 pm wrote:I've been as skeptical as anyone but that RT interview was... well... ridiculous. Mechanically listing the dimensions of the Salisbury cathedral spire... And the TOO MUCH SNOW gambit regarding their sudden movements around Britain? C'mon. And yes, and the famous "Straight Guys Don't Carry Nina Ricci Around Or They Will Be Stopped at Airports" defense.

RocketMan, I'm Scottish, you're Norwegian, so we're both familiar with those popular open-air cafes where hordes of happy customers happily rainbathe in the freezing sleet. Right? Soft southerners are amazed at the sight, but we, like the Russians, just have that hardiness in our blood. When those hailstones dilute our Chablis, we just grin and say Skål! or Sláinte! Having wet feet is something we northerners all particularly adore, it's great fun. Right? We're only happy when our teeth are chattering and our extremities turn blue. Double pneumonia is our delight. It's a rite of passage for our kids.

Wrong, of course. It gets really soul-destroying, having to contend with this kind of confident fact-free "ROTFL Russians put off by snow !! Waht a crock!! "-style punditry, especially when I posted the evidence of the actual weather situation during Skripal Weekend just one page back. Here it is again, again, again:



- from the Salisbury Journal’s liveblog on 4 March.

The weather was dreadful in Wiltshire that weekend. Traffic disrupted. Roads impassable. Buses cancelled. Stonehenge closed to visitors. Dismal, sleety weather. Wind-chill factor was, I think, exactly - 17°F.

I've never seen a Yank without a cowboy hat. Mexicans, by contrast, all wear sombreros.

Don't get me started on the Gloomy Danes, da Fightin' Irish, and the Ethopians' well-known love of a good strong drought. (Heat never bothers 'em, they're African, ffs.) The French are addicted to frogs' legs, but they're also terribly sophisticated. Ooh là là! Not to be trusted, though.

Travel broadens the mind, especially when you do it via American TV.

The plain fact is, absolutely no evidence whatsoever* has been presented to connect these two men with the crime. None. It's all smoke and mirrors. All that the May regime and her MI6 have offered as "proof" of their guilt is [cue drumroll] three photos of them traipsing down various main roads, never closer than 500 meters to Skripal's home. And in any case, they arrived nearly four hours after he had left that house with Yulia.

So when did they smear the doorknob, that notorious Knob of Death, exactly? Inquiring minds want to know.

*Except, so we're now told, some very tiny "non-lethal traces" (phew! what a relief!) of, er, "deadly nerve-agent Novichok" (sic), allegedly discovered months after their departure in a hotel room in East London. (How many other guests had been in that room by then? How many cleaners?)