rigorousintuition.ca

Project Willow » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:03 pm wrote:May I just wave my hands and say, somebody green or edit the thread title? It does matter to me.

As has been said, there is a huge difference between minority or oppressed groups self aggregating in temporary scenarios versus being forced into cordoned off areas or excluded from basic services by the dominant group. Likewise, I support women-only spaces where safety and comfort are concerns.

Does that mean Christian/Muslim ect bakeries should be able to refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings?

General Patton » 18 Oct 2015 20:38 wrote:[

Does that mean Christian/Muslim ect bakeries should be able to refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings?

No.

“POC Yoga strongly believes that our group should have a space in our communities that is safe for people of color. Yes, the people in our group have asked that our white friends and allies respectfully not attend to allow people of color this space. We asked; we did not demand it, and we never turned anyone away.”

Now I'll add my voice, again; now the third request from members seeking moderator intervention in modifying this thread's title.

Iamwhomiam » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:31 pm wrote:Now I'll add my voice, again; now the third request from members seeking moderator intervention in modifying this thread's title.

I did.

There's a slippage going on in this thread between a group's efforts towards self-determination and political representation, on the one hand, and separation/segregation on the other.

I guess from my point of view it's important to recognize that there are some countries where the majority is discouraged from any kind of representation (this is certainly true of social class in most places!) as well as there being countries where minorities are denied or limited in their efforts towards self-representation.

The case of York University in Toronto is also interesting: people of european descent are a tiny minority there but their recent attempt to "self-aggregate" was not only banned but I believe it was characterized as a form of "violence".

^^^^ It seems so.

Mr. WRex, please accept my apology. When I offered my remarks it appeared to me "... A Modest Proposal" was the sub-heading chosen by Willow for her individual comment, as the original still appeared to be the thread title, "Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback".

I was hoping more for something like "Materializing The Ghosts of Segregation" though even "Segregation, An Immodest Proposal," perhaps might be more fitting.

tapitsbo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:03 pm wrote:There's a slippage going on in this thread between a group's efforts towards self-determination and political representation, on the one hand, and separation/segregation on the other.

Temporal manifestations of self determination are rare, but they do occur for me in brief periods. When I get drunk I sometimes have those.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
John Milton

Somehow this seems related.
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 15#p575282

“POC Yoga strongly believes that our group should have a space in our communities that is safe for people of color. Yes, the people in our group have asked that our white friends and allies respectfully not attend to allow people of color this space. We asked; we did not demand it, and we never turned anyone away.”

Garbage racism, still. The tone of pseudo-civility doesn't change a damn thing. It's not a shelter for women who've been abused. It's a fucking yoga class. The premise that the presence of white people would make the "space" unsafe for People of Color is the exact mirror of the white supremacist premise that Colored People make places unsafe. Shall we respect racist white proprietors if they "respectfully" ask black people to stay away from public venues because they proclaim, rationally or not, that society systematically victimizes white people or because some of them have been traumatized by black individuals? No. FUCK NO. Why? Whatever the answer is, it equally applies to non-white equivalents. Really, try it out: WHY?

FourthBase » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:54 pm wrote: WHY?

Could it be because, unlike European whites, the PoC groups and sexual minorities in the United States have variously been systematically dehumanized, enslaved, killed, repressed and discriminated against by the Euro-white majority? -- even before whites were a majority? -- since the first day they landed on this continent?


Now with the Irish it's different: the problem with the Irish is, you can't always tell they're Irish just by looking.

Elvis » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:49 pm wrote:

FourthBase » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:54 pm wrote: WHY?

Could it be because, unlike European whites, the PoC groups and sexual minorities in the United States have variously been systematically dehumanized, enslaved, killed, repressed and discriminated against by the Euro-white majority? -- even before whites were a majority? -- since the first day they landed on this continent?


Now with the Irish it's different: the problem with the Irish is, you can't always tell they're Irish just by looking.

Can you tell if someone is gay by looking at them? Is faking loving cock the price of admission? What if they later change their sexual preference/identity? Do they no longer inherit the legacy of oppression?

If you're abused as a child does that give you right to abuse children?



I was going to elaborate on why Arab or African cultures that have enslaved others for endless generations would never entertain this train of thought, but I'll just skip it and say they don't celebrate victimhood in the way western societies do.

General Patton wrote:Can you tell if someone is gay by looking at them?

I knew tacking on that joke about the Irish would go wrong somewhere.

Can you tell if someone is gay by looking at them?

It shouldn't matter. The overwhelming majority of people don't care what people do when they go home, close the bedroom door, and do whatever they do.

The only reason this is a topic of discussion is because the people that own THE BIG MEDIA MAINSTREAM BULLHORN FULL OF SHIT are trying to convince us that it matters.

This whole topic among people is stupid, but also, it a division tactic from the bullhorn, so I suppose it has to be discussed.

what the fuck...I entertain my mind with different subjects, or I try, but the bullhorn won't let me...and so it is...what the fuck...

Elvis » 19 Oct 2015 20:49 wrote:

FourthBase » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:54 pm wrote: WHY?

Could it be because, unlike European whites, the PoC groups and sexual minorities in the United States have variously been systematically dehumanized, enslaved, killed, repressed and discriminated against by the Euro-white majority? -- even before whites were a majority? -- since the first day they landed on this continent?

So if the morally-superior minorities see one of those genealogically-inferior Uncolored People approaching on the sidewalk, you'd advise them to cross the street? Perhaps the concept of "safe space" should extend to water fountains, diners, and public transportation, too, eh?

Now with the Irish it's different: the problem with the Irish is, you can't always tell they're Irish just by looking.

Is that an ironic verbatim quote from Archie Bunker, or are you unironically under the impression that utterly racist language like that is somehow not-despicable because you're conforming to "anti-racist" doctrine?

Now with the Irish it's different: the problem with the Irish is, you can't always tell they're Irish just by looking.

Hey! I resemble that remark!