rigorousintuition.ca

How so? Are you suggesting the WHO is promoting the spread of the virus?

I'd like to know how, exactly, not spreading the virus 'will not stop further spread of the virus'

I've seen this written in several places now with no further explanation, as if it's obvious. Is it?

I'm presuming part of the issue is rail and air travel and that these are not included within plans to shut down the border.

Not to mention, its already spread into Belarus, at least.

The US response was the same immediately after the first cases in Mexico last Spring.

ps. CNN still does not yet have a single story on what's going on in the Ukraine. I cannot imagine any reason for this other than a willful blackout presumably intended to prevent panic.

LETTERS: Swine Flu Infecting Politics
Published On Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:59 AM
By IVAN KATCHANOVSKI
Crimson Staff Writer

To the editors:

I commend your paper for exposing a panic-causing politicization of a flu outbreak in Ukraine and its negative effect on the election campaign [Tough on Swine Flu, Nov. 2]. The government-imposed ban on political and other mass gatherings, closing of schools and universities for three weeks, a deliberate inflation of a potential health risks and the severity of the flu spread, and a policy to make every Ukrainian wear masks are just recent illustrations of a populist and opportunist character of Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

In addition to an unwarranted credit for saving Ukraine from the disease, the flu scare creates additional opportunities for personal appropriation of large-scale emergency funding by government officials. Corruption reached epidemic proportions in Ukraine.

However, your editorial fails to note that President Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovych, a leading presidential candidate from the Party of Regions, are not less eager than Tymoshenko to embrace such undemocratic policies and exploit the flu and public fear for their advantage during the presidential campaign. President Yushchenko declared a flu outbreak a threat to national security and requested help from NATO. Yushchenko might use it as a pretext to impose a state of emergency and postpone the elections because he is badly lagging in the polls. Viktor Yanukovych called for extending a quarantine to all regions of Ukraine, even though the flu outbreak is currently limited to Western regions. Inna Bohoslovska, another presidential candidate and until recently a leading member of the Party of Regions, in a popular program broadcast by a television channel, which is owned by an associate of Yanukovych, stated without any scientific evidence that Ukraine is experiencing an epidemic of pneumonic plague. Since the first round of the presidential elections is two and a half months away, one has to wonder what kind of other methods the presidential contenders would employ to gain the power.

IVAN KATCHANOVSKI
Cambridge, Mass.
November 3, 2009

Ivan Katchanovski is a visiting professor at the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Harvard.

I've seen this written in several places now with no further explanation, as if it's obvious. Is it?

I remember a mathematics lecturer being asked finally by a dismayed
student what he meant when he used the word 'obvious'. He thought
for a while and answered

'Well, I mean you go home and think about it until it becomes obvious.'

I really think this whole 'swine flu emergency" is being used as a test. I think that the US govt and international health organizations are using this fairly innocuous virus (whether natural or manufactured) as an opportunity to test their systems: the health care response system, the government health emergency system, the vaccine manufacture distribution system, the media propaganda and public manipulation system, etc.

They are gathering data see how the public responds, how a virus spreads, who wants vaccinations, who refuses vaccinations so when something much more virulent evolves (or gets released in a bio warfare action), they will be more prepared.

link to a transcript of the videotape posted earlier in this thread (Bell Tolling for Swine Flu, by the nun)
http://www.slideshare.net/guest7a6b0e7/ ... lu-2426399

I really think this whole 'swine flu emergency" is being used as a test. I think that the US govt and international health organizations are using this fairly innocuous virus (whether natural or manufactured) as an opportunity to test their systems: the health care response system, the government health emergency system, the vaccine manufacture distribution system, the media propaganda and public manipulation system, etc.

They are gathering data see how the public responds, how a virus spreads, who wants vaccinations, who refuses vaccinations so when something much more virulent evolves (or gets released in a bio warfare action), they will be more prepared.

Well, I wouldn't use the word "test", but if they aren't "studying" this process, they have rocks in their collective heads. If Katrina didn't teach us anything else, it should have taught us that our welfare is woefully dependent on inadequate--and incompetent--responses to crises. I have to admit that that's half of what attracted me to watching this bug--studying the process of the response. The other half was learning about the science of the bug. And frankly, I think the response has been pretty good, so far. I'm impressed. Of course, we're lucky it wasn't a very deadly one.

I could see a use for a study of Katrina and h1n1, back to back. Hey, I know--we should start our own commission, with findings.

~ Finding #1: xx% will see any and all crises as a government conspiracy, and as a result, will respond in an oppostional manner.

chiggerbit wrote:

~ Finding #1: xx% will see any and all crises as a government conspiracy, and as a result, will respond in an oppostional manner.

I'd like to massage this finding of yours, if I may.

You may be unfairly mischaracterizing a growing segment of the population by using the "c" word.

We are distrusters of the Federal Government. It is not difficult to find historical evidence that they have no compunction against lying to the people that they serve.

Since I am one of those folks who takes almost everything that Uncle Sam mouths with a grain of salt (until I verify their acclamations with with some personal research, that is), I feel qualified to say that the "c" word rarely enters my mind.

I do, however, acknowledge that Uncle Sam lies, when it serves their purpose to do so.

And I don't generally trust liars.

I think you are calling it well whipstitch. It seems the whole reason for being for some folk is to design and control false narratives.

Maybe to stymie natural growth in consciousness?

chiggerbit wrote:Well, I wouldn't use the word "test", but if they aren't "studying" this process, they have rocks in their collective heads. If Katrina didn't teach us anything else, it should have taught us that our welfare is woefully dependent on inadequate--and incompetent--responses to crises. I have to admit that that's half of what attracted me to watching this bug--studying the process of the response.

Yeah, we're watching them and they're watching us.

The reason I say 'test' is because I think they are pushing the 'state of emergency' meme as much as possible in order to provoke a more intense response from all levels (families, activists, health care workers, etc) and then studying that response.

Sounder wrote:I think you are calling it well whipstitch. It seems the whole reason for being for some folk is to design and control false narratives.

Maybe to stymie natural growth in consciousness?

I think the motivation is mostly just money and the power to direct the flow of it. We're all just pawns on their grand chessboard.

Yeah, we're watching them and they're watching us.

The reason I say 'test' is because I think they are pushing the 'state of emergency' meme as much as possible in order to provoke a more intense response from all levels (families, activists, health care workers, etc) and then studying that response.

I don't know. I guess it's easy for ust to sit in front of our computers and jaw about whether or not the state of emergency was needed. But I have a feeling that if either of us had been a nurse on the front lines lately, say for instance, working double shifts and dealing with people with swine flu on respirators in your hospital, and you just watched the last of your hospital's respirators go into use, you might have a different outlook on the need for the declaration that would facilitate the sharing across the country of those limited machines, transporting equipment from one area not hit yet to your area where the flu was spreading like wildfire. Or prepared to transport personnel, if needed. I was kind of surprised the emergency wasn't declared a week or two earlier than it was. Why wait until the peak has arrived? Well, I'm assuming the peak is almost here.

And let me say, seriously, that one of the weaknesses of our emergency healthcare system in this country is depending on the business model used by service providers such as hospitals on a "just enough" or "just in time" model such as Walmart uses to stock little kiddie swimming pools only at the beginning of the summer. It's probably a good thing this bug hasn't been even a tenth of a percent more deadly than it's been.

And let me say, seriously, that one of the weaknesses of our emergency healthcare system in this country is depending on the business model used by service providers such as hospitals on a "just enough" or "just in time" model such as Walmart uses to stock little kiddie swimming pools only at the beginning of the summer.

And let me add that it isn't just our healthcare system that's being run this way--our food supplies are also run on a jit model. There's very little storage nowadays.

I have to admit that this "worry" gave me a deep groan:

http://www.parkrapidsenterprise.com/eve ... /id/20533/

-...An article in the Washington Post suggests that the closer the nation comes to pandemic status, the more taxed the Internet becomes.

Parents staying home with sick kids, and the sick kids themselves, are all using the Internet from home, pressuring local area networks, and that could tax the telecommunications system as a whole.

The Post cites a Government Accountability Office report that maintains “if the flu reaches a pandemic, a surge in telecommuting and children accessing video files and games at home could bog down local networks.

According to the Post, the Department of Homeland Security it “doesn’t have a strategy to deal with overloaded Internet networks — an essential resource to keep the economy humming, and residents informed and connected during a pandemic, the GAO said.”

Officials at Arvig Communications did not return calls seeking information as to whether local network usage has been up, correlating with massive local school absences....

Remember the Brazilian mutation, linked on page 49? Check these deaths out in south America, near the Brazilian border. Granted, it could be caused by poor nutrition, unsanitary conditions, etc. But I don't think mutation can be ruled out, either.

http://tinyurl.com/y9o84v7


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Swine flu outbreak suspected in 7 deaths among isolated Yanomami Indians in Venezuela
By Ian James, AP
November 4th, 2009


Swine flu hits Yanomami Indians in the Amazon

CARACAS, Venezuela — Swine flu has appeared among Venezuela’s Yanomami Indians, one of the largest isolated indigenous groups in the Amazon, and a doctor said Wednesday that the virus is suspected in seven deaths, including six infants.

The deaths happened in forest villages near Venezuela’s border with Brazil over the past 2½ weeks, said Raidan Bernade, a Venezuelan doctor on a team sent to contain the outbreak and treat the ill.

Bernade told The Associated Press that doctors confirmed one of those who died had swine flu — a 35-year-old Yanomami woman who doctors believe was pregnant.

Six babies, the oldest of whom was about 1 year old, died from similar symptoms, though samples weren’t taken in time to confirm it was swine flu, Bernade said by phone from La Esmeralda, a riverside town at the edge of the vast rain forest territory where the Yanomami live.

He said the victims had fever and coughing at first, and suffered complications from pneumonia.

The deaths were reported Wednesday by the London-based indigenous rights group Survival International, which warned that if not properly contained the virus could spread and cause more deaths among people who are particularly susceptible to disease due to their limited contact with the outside world.

Yamilet Mirabal, the government’s deputy minister of indigenous affairs for the region, told the AP she was informed of six Yanomami deaths suspected of being due to swine flu. She said the outbreak was detected about three weeks ago and health officials have taken precautions since to prevent the illness from spreading.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez acknowledged Tuesday night that the virus reached some indigenous settlements, though he didn’t mention the Yanomami or give details.

“Swine flu hasn’t gone away… It was detected in an indigenous community,” Chavez said in a televised speech. “It’s under control now.”

Mirabal said suspected swine flu cases appeared in three Yanomami villages — Mavaca, Platanal and Hatakoa — and a Cuban-trained team of Venezuelan doctors known as Battalion 51 was sent to the area to treat the ill and track possible cases.

Two swine flu cases have been confirmed among the ill, but those people have been treated and recovered, Bernade said.

Doctors identified some 2,000 people with various respiratory illnesses in the zone in recent weeks and took samples from those with serious cases, Bernade said.

He said about 110 sick people are being evaluated to see if they might have swine flu, though doctors believe most have a seasonal flu that appears regularly in the area. He said sick people are isolated in homes, and their numbers have been declining.

“Everything is under control,” Bernade said.

There are an estimated 28,000 or more Yanomami living in communities on both sides of the Venezuela-Brazil border. They have maintained their language as well as traditions including face paint and wooden facial ornaments piercing their noses, cheeks and lips.

The Yanomami often suffer from malaria and also have seen deaths in the past from outbreaks of illnesses such as measles, yellow fever and hepatitis. In many cases, they have become sick after contact with outsiders.

It is unclear how swine flu reached the Yanomami. One possibility is that someone with the virus attended an athletic event in one of the villages last month, Mirabal said. Indigenous people came from all around for the sporting event, which is said to have included soccer — a popular sport among the Yanomami.

Bernade said the first death happened during that multi-day event. He said another possibility is that someone with the virus came with visiting government officials several days earlier.

Last month, Venezuela confirmed there have been 90 deaths nationwide from swine flu, and 1,910 cases of the virus.

Survival International, which supports the rights of tribal peoples internationally, has helped campaign for Yanomami land rights in the past.

Fiona Watson, its research and field director, said she is unaware of any similar swine flu outbreaks in Amazon indigenous communities. She called for urgent action to keep the virus from spreading.

“Survival’s real fear is that this is going to spread rapidly … because the Yanomami are a relatively isolated people,” said Watson, who has visited Yanomami villages previously. “If it gets into these remote communities, by the time people find out it’s likely to be too late.”

Associated Press writers Rachel Jones and Jorge Rueda contributed to this report.

(This version CORRECTS that doctors have identified some 2,000 people with respiratory illnesses instead of more than 3,000.)