Evidence of Revision: MLK

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby 82_28 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:48 am

WHY didn't the perps set-up a fake sniper's nest on the roof, or the 7th floor, and then have Oswald go there on a pretext of photographing or watching, eliminating ALL risk of exposure?


Because information wasn't as viral nor did it travel as fast back then. In this day and age, the way shit went down with JFK, we would have all the perps going around the net so fast, those bastards wouldn't have known what hit them at the time. Not to say that is a good thing. I am talking '60s style conspiracy meets 2010 capabilities at instant networking.

They've resorted to turning us all in to our very own JFK. This is the patriot act. An act to essentially make all laws non-existent. We have been provided the networks. The networks and the databases mean freedom, don't you know? However, without laws that supposedly all are inclined to follow the RULES, we have nothing. America essentially, as of this moment, is lawless. The Patriot Act. We're running on inertia and once our dear elders bite the dust, it shall be all over. Some entity is purposely trying to drive this country insane and are drooling at the time all the old folks bite the dust and can completely take the "wealth". We're just a few years from it happening.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby MinM » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:32 am

whipstitch wrote:Regarding Oswald, I've always thought the whole capture in the theater episode was bizarre. Why would he carry a gun in there? And with a bunch of policemen converging on him why would he pull it out? And why throw a punch at one of them? That he tried to fire the gun seems almost surely inaccurate - that would be suicide. That whole scene as described just doesn't make much sense...

That question is addressed about 18-minutes into the clip below...


Nordic wrote:The only question is when did he realize he was a patsy. At one point he yells it to journalists in the hallway, not long before he was murdered.

That may have actually coincided with Oswald's realization that he was being setup as a patsy. Jim DiEugenio discusses that about 23-minutes into that clip above.



Of course Oswald comes to this realization too late...

JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters
..in his first introduction of Oswald Douglass mentions the Nags Head, North Carolina military program which launched American soldiers into Russia as infiltrators. Near the end of the book (p. 365), with Oswald in jail about to be killed by Jack Ruby, Douglass returns to that military program with Oswald's famous thwarted phone call to Raleigh, North Carolina: the spy left out in the cold attempting to contact his handlers for information as how to proceed. But not realizing that his attempted call will now guarantee his execution...
http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.html

rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

Nags Head call / Raleigh call ... clarification
Earth-704509
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby whipstitch » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:22 pm

MinM wrote:
whipstitch wrote:Regarding Oswald, I've always thought the whole capture in the theater episode was bizarre. Why would he carry a gun in there? And with a bunch of policemen converging on him why would he pull it out? And why throw a punch at one of them? That he tried to fire the gun seems almost surely inaccurate - that would be suicide. That whole scene as described just doesn't make much sense...

That question is addressed about 18-minutes into the clip below...



Not sure that shed any more light on the subject, but I appreciate the link. I've been looking for some more podcasts to listen to and Black Ops Radio looks like a really good one. Thanks for posting that. :wink:
User avatar
whipstitch
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby MinM » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:03 pm

whipstitch wrote:Not sure that shed any more light on the subject, but I appreciate the link. I've been looking for some more podcasts to listen to and Black Ops Radio looks like a really good one. Thanks for posting that. :wink:

You're welcome. I meant to add that while they addressed the issue - it was short on answers. Although as DiEugenio alludes to, the Dallas Police botched the case so badly, there are some things we may never know about the case.

One of the better websites on the assassination is still just scratching the surface on some of this.
Image
Oswald and the Texas Theater - The Education Forum
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby chump » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:00 am

When you look at the story about the mossad murdering Mahbouh in Kuwait, and how they used 26 agents (or something like that) to do it, it is easy to imagine how Oswald, and his doubles, could be managed. I can guess that there may well have been 15, 20, 30, or more operatives in Dallas that day. (Which reminds me of something Alice posted awhile back in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24521&start=30)

I think I remember something about how somebody, either Oswald or the cop wrestling with him, had wedged their thumb on the hammer of one the revolvers being wielded so that it wouldn't fire. As I understood it, Oswald was not supposed to come out of the theatre alive. There were many, many stories of people who were very much relieved when Ruby managed to shoot him two days later and he died. Wasn't there also an Oswald seen getting into into Ruth Paine's Rambler at the TSBD? By Officer Craig?

I've been reading and listening to a lot of the stuff MinM posted, and so much more, for a good part of the last two days. I don't know why, but every year or so I get this sick urge to re-immerse myself in that historical day in Dallas. I ran accross something special from one of the true blues in this saga. I highly recommend:

When they kill a President
Written by Roger Craig in 1971
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html
Answers many of the questions posed above; a compelling glimpse behind the scenes of the "investigation". This man's story really ought to be a movie.

at approximately 12:40 p.m., Deputy Craig was standing on the south side of Elm Street when he heard a shrill whistle coming from the north side of Elm and turned to see a man -- wearing faded blue trousers and a long sleeved work shirt made of some type of grainy material -- come running down the grassy knoll from the direction of the TSBD. He saw a light green Rambler station wagon coming slowly west on Elm Street, pull over to the north curb and pick up the man coming down the hill. By this time the traffic was too heavy for him to be able to reach them before the car drove away going west on Elm...quote. quoteLater in the afternoon Craig received word of Oswald's arrest and that he was suspected of being involved in the Kennedy's murder. He immediately thought of the man running down the grassy knoll and made a telephone call to Capt. Will Fritz to gave him the description of the man he had seen. Fritz said Craig's description sounded like the man they had and asked him to come take a look. When he saw Oswald in Fritz's personal office Deputy Craig confirmed that this was indeed the man, dressed in the same way, that he had seen running down the knoll and into the Rambler?


Fun and games man, fun and games! The only one's who know what happened for sure are the ones that pulled it off; and most of them are dead. GHWB probably knows something, but he's not talking.

Did something go wrong when they apprehended Oswald in the theatre (as one of his doubles slipped out of into the alley?)?

http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.html

Citing the valuable work of John Armstrong, he (James Douglass) then builds a case that there were two Oswalds at the Texas Theater on November 22, 1963. One was arrested and taken out the front door. The second Oswald was hiding in the balcony and later escorted out the back by the police. Before anyone gets too dismissive, there are two Dallas Police Department reports that refer to Oswald being in the balcony of the theater. (p. 293) And there are two witnesses who saw an Oswald lookalike escorted out the rear: Butch Burroughs and Bernard Haire. (I should add here, in a 4/8/08 interview I did with Armstrong for this review, he said there was a sheriff's officer who also saw this second Oswald on the stairs between the mezzanine and the first floor.) The author postulates that the man who exited the rear is the man who ended up in the Falcon. He then wraps this up by saying that this double was ultimately flown out of Dallas on a military transport plane.



Here's a couple of articles and a video by John Armstrong regarding Harvey and Lee and Officer Tippit. Enjoy.

Harvey, Lee and Tippett: A New Look at the Tippett Shooting.
http://www.ctka.net/pr198-jfk.html

Harvey and Lee --- Just the Facts, Please.
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.ba ... facts.html

User avatar
chump
 
Posts: 2261
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby streeb » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:18 am

Citing the valuable work of John Armstrong, he (James Douglass) then builds a case that there were two Oswalds at the Texas Theater on November 22, 1963. One was arrested and taken out the front door. The second Oswald was hiding in the balcony and later escorted out the back by the police. Before anyone gets too dismissive, there are two Dallas Police Department reports that refer to Oswald being in the balcony of the theater. (p. 293) And there are two witnesses who saw an Oswald lookalike escorted out the rear: Butch Burroughs and Bernard Haire. (I should add here, in a 4/8/08 interview I did with Armstrong for this review, he said there was a sheriff's officer who also saw this second Oswald on the stairs between the mezzanine and the first floor.) The author postulates that the man who exited the rear is the man who ended up in the Falcon. He then wraps this up by saying that this double was ultimately flown out of Dallas on a military transport plane.


As witnessed by a passenger on that plane, Robert Vinson

User avatar
streeb
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: Zona, BC
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:25 am

OK, JFK, not MLK. Same department.

The spook media was putting out decoy movies because of the dopple-ganger spycraft reality very early, long before researchers figured out there were two Oswalds.

Probably because of JEdgarHoover's 1961 memo about someone using Oswald's passport.
For some cryptocrats.

Because of the trail of big patsying-up footprints...for others.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby whipstitch » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:46 am

The 'two oswalds' senario certainly answers some questions (thanks for posting those links, chump) and I can kind of imagine this senario...

Oswald was told (by his handler) to leave TSBD and go to the theater and meet a contact. He goes there, buys a ticket, some popcorn, and keeps moving his seat around giving opportunity for someone to make contact with him... but no one does.

The 'other' Oswald leaves TSBD, kills Tippet (drops his wallet next to the body!), runs several blocks and into the Theater without buying a ticket and hides in the Balcony. He is seen sneaking in and the theater calls the police and tell them someone snuck into the theater without paying and they arrive quickly (and in force) because they are looking for the Tippet's murderer nearby.

One thing weird bit (where the two Oswalds overlap) if you consider Officer Craig's testimony...

I arrived at Capt. Fritz office shortly after 4:30 p.m. I was met by Agent Bookhout from the F.B.I., who took my name and place of employment. The door to Capt. Fritz' personal office was open and the blinds on the windows were closed, so that one had to look through the doorway in order to see into the room. I looked through the open door at the request of Capt. Fritz and identified the man who I saw running down the grassy knoll and enter the Rambler station wagon -- and it WAS Lee Harvey Oswald.

Fritz and I entered his private office together. He told Oswald, "This man (pointing to me) saw you leave." At which time the suspect replied, "I told you people I did." Fritz, apparently trying to console Oswald, said, "Take it easy, son -- we're just trying to find out what happened." Fritz then said, "What about the car?" Oswald replied, leaning forward on Fritz' desk, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine -- don't try to drag her into this." Sitting back in his chair, Oswald said very disgustedly and very low, "Everybody will know who I am now."


The Oswald who was arrested was the one who most of the evidence shows left TSBD by bus (then taxi to home and then on to the theater). The other Oswald was the one who seems to have left TSBD by station wagon (and then went on to shoot Tippet and escape to the theater). If we believe Craig's testimony, then the arrested Oswald knew that the other Oswald left by station wagon. Not sure how much we can believe Craig's testimony but I guess the two would have had to be aware of each other. Don't know if anyone has looked into that aspect of the two Oswalds theory.
User avatar
whipstitch
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby chump » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:05 am

I believe Craig's sincerity. I think there were probably more than two Oswalds. I don't know what kind of, or how many, operations Oswald thought he was involved in, and I'm not sure that he walked to the Texas theatre, or which one did, or how many Oswald's were in there.

I'll have to let that one simmer for awhile.

Sometimes I wish I were Rockford, and seeing how it is James Garner's birthday today, this clip somehow seemed appropriate. I could just picture Angel Martin as Oswald.
User avatar
chump
 
Posts: 2261
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby chump » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:23 pm

streeb wrote:... the Raul-Jack Ruby connection is a mindblower. Interesting that (Ray's lawyer) Pepper seemed reluctant to go there at first. (on edit) which isn't to imply he wanted to frame the story in a particular way, just that he realized it would look so implausible to the outside world (I think). Pepper appears to be an incredibly brave individual.


http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/MLKconExp.html
The Martin Luther King Conspiracy Exposed in Memphis
by Jim Douglass
Spring 2000
Probe Magazine

... Raul
One of the most significant developments in the Memphis trial was the emergence of the mysterious Raul through the testimony of a series of witnesses.

In a 1995 deposition by James Earl Ray that was read to the jury, Ray told of meeting Raul in Montreal in the summer of 1967, three months after Ray had escaped from a Missouri prison. According to Ray, Raul guided Ray's movements, gave him money for the Mustang car and the rifle, and used both to set him up in Memphis.

Andrew Young and Dexter King described their meeting with Jowers and Pepper at which Pepper had shown Jowers a spread of photographs, and Jowers picked out one as the person named Raul who brought him the rifle to hold at Jim's Grill. Pepper displayed the same spread of photos in court, and Young and King pointed out the photo Jowers had identified as Raul. (Private investigator John Billings said in separate testimony that this picture was a passport photograph from 1961, when Raul had immigrated from Portugal to the U.S.)

The additional witnesses who identified the photo as Raul's included: British merchant seaman Sidney Carthew, who in a videotaped deposition from England said he had met Raul (who offered to sell him guns) and a man he thinks was Ray (who wanted to be smuggled onto his ship) in Montreal in the summer of 1967; Glenda and Roy Grabow, who recognized Raul as a gunrunner they knew in Houston in the `60s and `70s and who told Glenda in a rage that he had killed Martin Luther King; Royce Wilburn, Glenda's brother, who also knew Raul in Houston; and British television producer Jack Saltman, who had obtained the passport photo and showed it to Ray in prison, who identified it as the photo of the person who had guided him.

Saltman and Pepper, working on independent investigations, located Raul in 1995. He was living quietly with his family in the northeastern U.S. It was there in 1997 that journalist Barbara Reis of the Lisbon Publico, working on a story about Raul, spoke with a member of his family. Reis testified that she had spoken in Portuguese to a woman in Raul's family who, after first denying any connection to Ray's Raul, said "they" had visited them. "Who?" Reis asked. "The government," said the woman. She said government agents had visited them three times over a three-year period. The government, she said, was watching over them and monitoring their phone calls. The woman took comfort and satisfaction in the fact that her family (so she believed) was being protected by the government.

In his closing argument Pepper said of Raul: "Now, as I understand it, the defense had invited Raul to appear here. He is outside this jurisdiction, so a subpoena would be futile. But he was asked to appear here. In earlier proceedings there were attempts to depose him, and he resisted them. So he has not attempted to come forward at all and tell his side of the story or to defend himself." ...
User avatar
chump
 
Posts: 2261
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby mulebone » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:28 pm

http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/evidenceofrevision.html

Since its release in 2006, Evidence of Revision has become recognized as the definitive video account of the JFK assassination. Clocking in at over eight hours on five discs, this epic documentary covers not only the events in Dallas on November 22, 1963, but also the Robert Kennedy assassination, the Jonestown massacre, and the horrors of CIA covert MK-ULTRA mind-control programs. A subsequent production, Evidence of Revision 6, examines serious inconsistencies in the Martin Luther King murder.

Still, despite widespread acclaim, viewers in conspiracy circles and aficionados of this subject still have one question: who made Evidence of Revision? The boxed set case gives absolutely no clue as to the creator of the film, nor does any of the footage. The closing credits simply list “Etymon Productions,” while elsewhere the audience is informed, “History may be revised even as it is being written.”

This mystery compelled me to begin a search one day in June 2006 after a cardboard box arrived in my post office box. Inside was a generic DVD case with no label, markings, or documentation. I was about to discard the packaging when a tiny slip of paper fell out containing only an anonymous email address. A week or so later I watched Evidence of Revision, and after being overwhelmed by the material I decided to contact this enigmatic individual.

Anonymity
Shortly thereafter, we began corresponding, and the tale that unfolded was as compelling as the documentary. I soon discovered that the person behind Evidence of Revision was a fifty-something year old man living in San Diego and going by the pseudonym “Terrence Raymond.” However, due to his rapidly deteriorating physical and financial situation, he feared facing homelessness. With the few remaining dollars left in his possession, Raymond mailed Evidence of Revision to forty different people who ran conspiracy websites, hosted radio shows, or were scholars of the Kennedy assassination. Although he had yet to accept a dime for his efforts, he hoped somebody would notice his work. Little did Raymond know his documentary would become an underground classic, and soon history buffs and those who sought to debunk the enduring cover-up began passing it around like a virus.

To date, Raymond’s only interview took place on WING TV on July 13, 2006 (http://911underground.com/wingtv/). Yet, despite a relative lack of publicity, Evidence of Revision exploded on the Internet, and the mystery associated with the movie served only to broaden its cult appeal. When asked why he wanted to remain anonymous, Raymond would only answer cryptically, “No comment.” However, he did add with a chuckle that one on-line forum speculated on his belonging to some sort of radical political group operating out of the Caribbean.

Beyond Raymond’s hidden identity, the other pressing question asked by viewers is: where did he get all this amazing footage? In the mid-1970s, he served four years of elite military duty in the Naval Photographic Center in Washington, DC, where he was employed by the National Archives White House Presidential Motion Picture Crew. As such, Raymond worked for John F. Kennedy’s and Lyndon Johnson’s personal sound recordists.

Terrence Raymond began his work in the wake of 1974’s Watergate scandal. After President Richard Nixon’s resignation, and after Gerald Ford assumed office, he received secret clearance status and worked on classified film projects for the Pentagon, the White House, and possibly intelligence agencies. Upon being transferred to a reconnaissance squadron in the Florida Keys, Raymond was assigned temporary duty as a petty officer to a supply facility which, according to him, was most likely operated by the CIA.

Being in such close proximity to Agency spooks, political scandals, and media manipulators, Raymond witnessed first-hand a world that increasingly resembled George Orwell’s 1984, complete with doublethink, perpetual war, “Newspeak” propaganda, behavior modification, genetic control, and the alteration of history.

Robert Kennedy & MK-ULTRA
The technique of using ‘manufactured consent’ to sway public opinion struck a chord with Raymond. Being old enough to recall JFK’s assassination, he clearly remembers listening to the radio late one evening in June of 1968 and learning that Robert F. Kennedy had been murdered at the Ambassador Hotel. During this broadcast, it was reported that certain people laughed, celebrated, and admitted responsibility for the killing. But then, just as quickly, these news items vanished from the media landscape, never to be heard again. And just like Lee Harvey Oswald, Robert Kennedy’s convicted assassin, Sirhan Sirhan, became an infamous lone-nut gunman.

This particular event had a profound impact on the teen because, as a child growing up in Whittier, California, Raymond’s mother attended Bible study classes with Richard Nixon’s sister in the Nixon household. There, the participants spoke in tongues, and eventually lapsed into trances. She also described how the Nixon family kept a “Wailing Wall” inside their home where they cried, prayed, and flailed. As a result of these bizarre episodes, Raymond’s mother suffered a nervous breakdown, and was placed in a Pasadena hospital (the name and location of which she cannot remember) where the repeated use of electroshock treatments and Sodium Pentothal completely erased her memory. These procedures occurred in the mid-1950s at a time when MK-ULTRA experiments were being performed on private citizens without their consent. A decade later, it’s likely that Sirhan Sirhan underwent his MK-ULTRA conversion at the same facility. To date, Raymond isn’t sure if his mother was definitively targeted, or simply a random subject for these demented doctors.

However, one certainty remains. After learning that his mother’s nervous breakdown was attributable to her bizarre religious experiences at the Nixon household, Raymond’s dislike for Nixon and his policies grew into utter disgust. He even remembers campaigning against Nixon in his grade school classroom during the 1960 election. A decade later, Raymond would be working across the Potomac from the White House as Nixon resigned under the cloud of the Watergate scandal.
Well Robert Moore went down heavy
With a crash upon the floor
And over to his thrashin' body
Betty Coltrane she did crawl.
She put the gun to the back of his head
And pulled the trigger once more
And blew his brains out
All over the table.
mulebone
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby whipstitch » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:29 pm

Just wanted to give a heads up that as of 4/29/11, Google will be ending it's google video service :( so google video links in the original post will no longer be work. This series is worth checking out if you haven't seen them. I did include a link in the original post to the internet archives where these videos can be downloaded - except for episode 6 about MLK for some reason.
User avatar
whipstitch
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby lupercal » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:03 am

whipstitch wrote:Just discovered the sixth video in this series. You can find it via bitorrent or watch it on google video...

Evidence_of_Revision_Pt_6 (warning: harsh footage of lynchings and beatings during the intro)

You can download the other five from the internet archive or watch them online...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1355447870 (Part 1 - JFK and Oswald)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9269105967 (Part 2 - The Why of It)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8204169083 (Part 3 - LBJ and Hoover)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3693499618 (Part 4 - RFK)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0777778333 (Part 5 - RFK and Jonestown)

I don't know who put all these videos together (it's credited to Etymon Productions) but watching all of this historical footage has been mind blowing.

Thank you Etymon wherever you are. :lovehearts:

I've watched a couple (5 and 1) and there's lots of stuff here I've never seen and didn't know. The Jonestown segment on 5 connects a lot of dots, for example, why the reported numbers kept increasing, from 400 to 800 to 900, and why according to one claim (not clearly identitifed alas) there was not one suicide among them, namely that the whole thing was an MK-Ultra experiment and that the victims were executed over a period of days.
8bit wrote:So basically if there was ever anything on there you wanted to see, watch it now or download it off the site for later.

Question for 8bit: how do you download these videos?

edit: I think I've got it under control 8bit, downloading a firefox extension now that I hope will do the trick..
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby whipstitch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:03 am

There are links to download in several different video formats at the bottom of this page.
User avatar
whipstitch
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Evidence of Revision: MLK

Postby MinM » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:38 pm

chump wrote:When you look at the story about the mossad murdering Mahbouh in Kuwait, and how they used 26 agents (or something like that) to do it, it is easy to imagine how Oswald, and his doubles, could be managed. I can guess that there may well have been 15, 20, 30, or more operatives in Dallas that day. (Which reminds me of something Alice posted awhile back in this thread: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 1&start=30)

I think I remember something about how somebody, either Oswald or the cop wrestling with him, had wedged their thumb on the hammer of one the revolvers being wielded so that it wouldn't fire. As I understood it, Oswald was not supposed to come out of the theatre alive. There were many, many stories of people who were very much relieved when Ruby managed to shoot him two days later and he died. Wasn't there also an Oswald seen getting into into Ruth Paine's Rambler at the TSBD? By Officer Craig?

I've been reading and listening to a lot of the stuff MinM posted, and so much more, for a good part of the last two days. I don't know why, but every year or so I get this sick urge to re-immerse myself in that historical day in Dallas. I ran accross something special from one of the true blues in this saga. I highly recommend:

When they kill a President
Written by Roger Craig in 1971
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html
Answers many of the questions posed above; a compelling glimpse behind the scenes of the "investigation". This man's story really ought to be a movie.

at approximately 12:40 p.m., Deputy Craig was standing on the south side of Elm Street when he heard a shrill whistle coming from the north side of Elm and turned to see a man -- wearing faded blue trousers and a long sleeved work shirt made of some type of grainy material -- come running down the grassy knoll from the direction of the TSBD. He saw a light green Rambler station wagon coming slowly west on Elm Street, pull over to the north curb and pick up the man coming down the hill. By this time the traffic was too heavy for him to be able to reach them before the car drove away going west on Elm...quote. quoteLater in the afternoon Craig received word of Oswald's arrest and that he was suspected of being involved in the Kennedy's murder. He immediately thought of the man running down the grassy knoll and made a telephone call to Capt. Will Fritz to gave him the description of the man he had seen. Fritz said Craig's description sounded like the man they had and asked him to come take a look. When he saw Oswald in Fritz's personal office Deputy Craig confirmed that this was indeed the man, dressed in the same way, that he had seen running down the knoll and into the Rambler?
...

Image
Sybil Leek and Bert Randolph Sugar address the issue of the Rambler in The Assassination Chain...
Robert Howard wrote:Posted 16 January 2006 - 10:25 PM

I am posting this article because I believe it ties together the connections of the conspiracy better than any single article written concerning the 'connecting the dots' aspect of JFK's assassination.

Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used
In the JFK Conspiracy

Copyright © 1993 by Richard Bartholomew

Introduction

Ten minutes after President Kennedy was shot, Marvin Robinson, Helen Forrest and Dallas Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, independently of each other, reportedly saw two men leaving Dealey Plaza in a light-colored Rambler station wagon. One of them entered the car on Elm Street after running from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). Craig and Forrest described this man as being identical to Lee Harvey Oswald. A few minutes before this incident Richard Randolph Carr saw two of three men, who had come from behind the TSBD, enter what was apparently the same Rambler parked next to the building on Houston Street. He saw the third man enter the car seconds later on Record Street, one block east and two blocks south of the TSBD...

With the Warren Commission's attempted classification of Marvin Robinson's statement, the death of William Whaley in 1965, and the 1975 death of Roger Craig after his many failed attempts to make his story public, the truth about this alleged getaway car has eluded the few who have tried to seek it...

On May 29, 1989, a Rambler station wagon was noticed on the campus of the University of Texas at Austin (UT) which fit the description of the getaway car reportedly seen by Craig, Robinson, Forrest, and Carr on November 22, 1963.8 A cursory examination of the car revealed apparent associations between it and persons whose lives were intertwined with Lyndon Johnson's political machinery, the military-industrial-intelligence complex in the U.S., right-wing politics, and Latin American politics...

As Dennis Ford writes in the November 1992 issue of The Third Decade, "Discovering the fate of the Rambler will go a long way toward solving this case....Whoever took or drove the car that afternoon is obviously a conspirator."10 This paper reports on a cursory investigation and proposes a more in-depth investigation. It argues that the UT Rambler represents a possible unique opportunity to determine the fate of this alleged getaway car by investigating new leads, current clues, and fresh trails; an opportunity that should not be overlooked.

There is no intention here to implicate innocent persons in the assassination of President Kennedy. Rather, this is a presentation of circumstances which appear to support the proposed investigation.

This paper presumes, as advised by the United States Constitution, that every person referred to herein is innocent. It also presumes, as advised by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, that, "The more outré and grotesque an incident is, the more carefully it deserves to be examined...."11


El Turista y los Compañeros

When first noticed, the Rambler station wagon at UT was only of interest because it was similar to the car Craig described. There was no incentive to look any closer because the odds were greatly against it being that car. Another person who had seen the car on campus mentioned the existence of the 1964 Mexican tourist sticker on its window. The inference was that if it was the getaway car it would likely have been driven to Mexico as soon as possible after the assassination and, if not destroyed, remain there during the ensuing investigation. This was judged a coincidence, however, and it seemed an easy task to find a simple fact about the car that would conclusively eliminate it from suspicion. That has not proved to be so easy...

On November 9, 1990, a request was made to the Texas State Department of Highways and Public Transportation, Division of Motor Vehicles in Austin, for an ownership history of the Rambler. The first question to be answered was whether or not Ruth or Michael Paine had ever owned it. Unfortunately the clerk at the Division of Motor Vehicles said all of the state's ownership records prior to title numbers beginning with the digits 85 were routinely destroyed, which included those for this car.13 Fortunately the same man had owned this car for the past twenty-seven years and his title showed up in the current computer record...

The possibility remains that the Paines owned the car prior to C.B. Smith because its ownership history during its first four years is yet to be established despite several attempts through various means. But just because Oswald was under the impression that the car belonged to Ruth Paine in 1963 does not mean that it did. Bert Sugar and Sybil Leek apparently had information that Paine borrowed such a car.14 Nevertheless the identities of the two known owners have proven to be of potential importance to the events of November 22, 1963...

Richard Bartolomew: Rambler Station Wagon - The Education Forum

Image
Possible escape routes of the four Ramblers used in the assassination of JFK - The Education Forum

Byrds, Planes, and an Automobile
User avatar
MinM
 
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Mont Saint-Michel
Blog: View Blog (0)

Previous

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 148 guests