On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

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Postby theeKultleeder » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:26 am

judasdisney wrote:
What's really needed is a psychoanalysis of the stonewallers. I won't even call them "debunkers." They're stonewallers. And Bugliosi is no Right-Winger. It's a syndrome that transcends ideology, and some of the worst stonewallers are on the Left (HBO, Hanks are evidence of this).


What are the stonewallers afraid of?


This is the very definition of Deep Politics:

My notion of deep politics… posits that in every culture and society there are facts which tend to be suppressed collectively, because of the social and psychological costs of not doing so. Like all other observers, I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity.(1)”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_politics

Start there and the analysis becomes very straightforward.
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Postby 8bitagent » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:29 am

theeKultleeder wrote:
judasdisney wrote:
What's really needed is a psychoanalysis of the stonewallers. I won't even call them "debunkers." They're stonewallers. And Bugliosi is no Right-Winger. It's a syndrome that transcends ideology, and some of the worst stonewallers are on the Left (HBO, Hanks are evidence of this).


What are the stonewallers afraid of?


This is the very definition of Deep Politics:

My notion of deep politics… posits that in every culture and society there are facts which tend to be suppressed collectively, because of the social and psychological costs of not doing so. Like all other observers, I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity.(1)”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_politics

Start there and the analysis becomes very straightforward.


I LOVE that description.

Thats what I am. I hate the term conspiracy theorist.

Deep politics/activist is what a lot of so called "conspiracy theorists" are.
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If Kennedy Had Lived.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:44 am

The Watson Institute, a CFR and Carlyle Group backed pack of political science academics at Brown University are designing a JFK studies lesson for high scholl and college classes complete with a movie called 'Virtual JFK: Vietnam, if Kennedy Had Lived.'

I'm thinking they are going to muddy the October 11, 1963 NSAM #263 ending US involvement in Vietnam Kennedy signed and NSAM #273 LBJ signed just two days after JFK was shot.

And I'm sure they won't expose the high-level government killing of JFK.

http://ww.watsoninstitute.org/project_detail.cfm?id=77
The participants set out first to determine what actually happened, before speculating on what might have happened, regarding such issues as: what Kennedy thought he had decided on Vietnam; what his senior advisers believed he had decided; what Johnson believed was his predecessor’s Vietnam policy; and what new dilemmas Johnson faced that Kennedy was spared, such as the turbulent aftermath of the US-endorsed November 1963 coup in Saigon. In a substantial coda to the conference, which Blight, Lang and Welch will include in their book, the lessons learned from the disaster in Vietnam were applied to contemporary US foreign and defense policy, especially to the war in Iraq, which has been compared by many to the Vietnam experience.


I don't trust those academics.
Instead-

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/exit.htm

In 1972 Peter Dale Scott first made the case that Johnson’s NSAM 273—the document that Gibbons relied on in making the case for continuity—was in fact a departure from Kennedy’s policy; his essay appeared in Gravel’s edition of The Pentagon Papers. Arthur M. Schlesinger’s Robert Kennedy and His Times tells in a few tantalizing pages of the “first application” in October 1963 “of Kennedy’s phased withdrawal plan.”

A more thorough treatment appeared in 1992, with the publication of John M. Newman’s JFK and Vietnam.1 Until his retirement in 1994 Newman was a major in the U.S. Army, an intelligence officer last stationed at Fort Meade, headquarters of the National Security Agency. As an historian, his specialty is deciphering declassified records—a talent he later applied to the CIA’s long-hidden archives on Lee Harvey Oswald.

Newman’s argument was not a case of “counterfactual historical reasoning,” as Larry Berman described it in an early response.2 It was not about what might have happened had Kennedy lived. Newman’s argument was stronger: Kennedy, he claims, had decided to begin a phased withdrawal from Vietnam, that he had ordered this withdrawal to begin. Here is the chronology, according to Newman:

(1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.

(2) On October 5, Kennedy made his formal decision. Newman quotes the minutes of the meeting that day:

The President also said that our decision to remove 1,000 U.S. advisors by December of this year should not be raised formally with Diem. Instead the action should be carried out routinely as part of our general posture of withdrawing people when they are no longer needed. (Emphasis added.)

The passage illustrates two points: (a) that a decision was in fact made on that day, and (b) that despite the earlier announcement of McNamara’s recommendation, the October 5 decision was not a ruse or pressure tactic to win reforms from Diem (as Richard Reeves, among others, has contended3) but a decision to begin withdrawal irrespective of Diem or his reactions.

(3) On October 11, the White House issued NSAM 263, which states:

The President approved the military recommendations contained in section I B (1-3) of the report, but directed that no formal announcement be made of the implementation of plans to withdraw 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963.

In other words, the withdrawal recommended by McNamara on October 2 was embraced in secret by Kennedy on October 5 and implemented by his order on October 11, also in secret. Newman argues that the secrecy after October 2 can be explained by a diplomatic reason. Kennedy did not want Diem or anyone else to interpret the withdrawal as part of any pressure tactic (other steps that were pressure tactics had also been approved). There was also a political reason: JFK had not decided whether he could get away with claiming that the withdrawal was a result of progress toward the goal of a self-sufficient South Vietnam.
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Belzer

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:52 am

Oddly, actor Richard Belzer put out a book in 1999 called 'UFO's, JFK, and Elvis: Conspiracies You Don't Have to be Crazy to Believe.'

Most of the book does the facts of the JFK murder pretty well even including Umbrella Man.
Then he does some alien UFO stuff, too. Oh. Well. No wonder CNN blurbed the book.

Well, he did rely on Jim Marrs for lots of help.

The back jacket is blurbed by Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, and Lynne Russell of CNN.
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Postby judasdisney » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:26 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:

The back jacket is blurbed by Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, and Lynne Russell of CNN.


Dennis Miller? A pre-Fascist Dennis Miller? Was Dennis Miller ever really pre-Fascist?

Maher, on his HBO show two weeks ago (audio can be downloaded at iTunes) confronted and ridiculed the rap-star "Mos Def" for Mos Def's articulate support of 9/11 Truth.

I guess Belzer's next book will have fewer blurbs.
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Postby 8bitagent » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:55 am

judasdisney wrote:Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:

The back jacket is blurbed by Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, and Lynne Russell of CNN.


Dennis Miller? A pre-Fascist Dennis Miller? Was Dennis Miller ever really pre-Fascist?

Maher, on his HBO show two weeks ago (audio can be downloaded at iTunes) confronted and ridiculed the rap-star "Mos Def" for Mos Def's articulate support of 9/11 Truth.

I guess Belzer's next book will have fewer blurbs.


Hey even neo fascists Bill O'reilly thought JFK was an inside job at one point
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5AQdphWO2SQ

and Michele Malkin openly questioned 9/11
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michel ... 030802.asp

Isnt that irony for you?

The two most hateful critics of 9/11 theorists are two people who at one time were "inside job" proponents.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:44 am

judasdisney wrote:Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:

The back jacket is blurbed by Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, and Lynne Russell of CNN.


Dennis Miller? A pre-Fascist Dennis Miller? Was Dennis Miller ever really pre-Fascist?

Maher, on his HBO show two weeks ago (audio can be downloaded at iTunes) confronted and ridiculed the rap-star "Mos Def" for Mos Def's articulate support of 9/11 Truth.

I guess Belzer's next book will have fewer blurbs.


Yeah, but Maher had the guy on national tv and let him talk. I thought it was articulate and well said. Oh, and his raps are cool too.

Miller was once anti-establishment. He made a lightning quick change as soon as he was sucked up further into the media pantheon. Now his talk is filled with HATE and LIES. I guess he adjusted to fit in.
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Ulp!

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:47 pm

I just read more of this 1999 Richard Belzer book, 'UFOs, JFK, and Elvis.'
http://www.amazon.com/UFOs-JFK-Elvis-Conspiracies-Believe/dp/0345429176

He outs... Operation Mockingbird and cites Carl Bernstein's 1977 article, 'The CIA and the Media.' He also recommends reading Project Censored's yearly book of lost news.

Belzer actually writes that the CIA runs the media and he chews up Dan Rather for being a shill after reporting seeing the Zapruder film with JFK's head snapping the wrong way.

Belzer, yikes. Frikkin' Belzer.
This just shows how useful it is for TPTB to have the hardest truths spoken out of character by entertainers and juxtaposed with some UFO woo.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:20 pm

8bitagent wrote:
theeKultleeder wrote:
judasdisney wrote:
What's really needed is a psychoanalysis of the stonewallers. I won't even call them "debunkers." They're stonewallers. And Bugliosi is no Right-Winger. It's a syndrome that transcends ideology, and some of the worst stonewallers are on the Left (HBO, Hanks are evidence of this).


What are the stonewallers afraid of?


This is the very definition of Deep Politics:

My notion of deep politics… posits that in every culture and society there are facts which tend to be suppressed collectively, because of the social and psychological costs of not doing so. Like all other observers, I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity.(1)”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_politics

Start there and the analysis becomes very straightforward.


I LOVE that description.

Thats what I am. I hate the term conspiracy theorist.

Deep politics/activist is what a lot of so called "conspiracy theorists" are.


I don't want to be mean here, but I do want to separate out the speculation about occult societies from the historical record of parapolitical networks. For instance, Professor Scott gives an example in the quote: "I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity" Specifically, I believe he is referring to the CIA supplying the crack epidemic in the 80's. That's provable; occult conspiracy is not.

I think confining the meta-theories of occult links to world power in "conspiracy theory" is fine - I have no derision for conspiracy theorists who do good research. I think for the sake of scholarship paranormal speculation should be kept far away from parapolitical research.
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Postby streeb » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:00 am

This just shows how useful it is for TPTB to have the hardest truths spoken out of character by entertainers and juxtaposed with some UFO woo.


What does he say about UFOs?
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:53 am

theeKultleeder wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
theeKultleeder wrote:
judasdisney wrote:
What's really needed is a psychoanalysis of the stonewallers. I won't even call them "debunkers." They're stonewallers. And Bugliosi is no Right-Winger. It's a syndrome that transcends ideology, and some of the worst stonewallers are on the Left (HBO, Hanks are evidence of this).


What are the stonewallers afraid of?


This is the very definition of Deep Politics:

My notion of deep politics… posits that in every culture and society there are facts which tend to be suppressed collectively, because of the social and psychological costs of not doing so. Like all other observers, I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity.(1)”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_politics

Start there and the analysis becomes very straightforward.


I LOVE that description.

Thats what I am. I hate the term conspiracy theorist.

Deep politics/activist is what a lot of so called "conspiracy theorists" are.


I don't want to be mean here, but I do want to separate out the speculation about occult societies from the historical record of parapolitical networks. For instance, Professor Scott gives an example in the quote: "I too have involuntarily suppressed facts and even memories about the drug traffic that were too provocative to be retained with equanimity" Specifically, I believe he is referring to the CIA supplying the crack epidemic in the 80's. That's provable; occult conspiracy is not.

I think confining the meta-theories of occult links to world power in "conspiracy theory" is fine - I have no derision for conspiracy theorists who do good research. I think for the sake of scholarship paranormal speculation should be kept far away from parapolitical research.


I understand, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

Case in point:

Gladio/Strategy of Tension, which lead straight to the secret society P2(Propaganda Due)

Or any sort of research of the Nazis. And from the Nazis, we get CIA stuff like MK Ultra and all its derivitives.

But I understand what ya mean, the words "skull and bones" and "bohemian grove" are all too often thrown out there despite them being very low on the totem poll and having f---all too do with the broader spectrum.

Peter Scott Dale tho, the man's a genuis. By simply going over the provable, by pulling back the theatre curtain on the true nexus of narco trafficking and how it relates to geo politics...is to be called "insane".
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:20 am

Good point. But we can talk about Bohemian Grove without trying to convince people that they're worshipping Molech the Owl. It is a secretive gathering of very influential people. We can investigate the structure of the P2 lodge without getting into numerology. It was a compartmentalized initiatory hierarchy. And so on...
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Postby MinM » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:42 pm

judasdisney wrote:Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:

The back jacket is blurbed by Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, and Lynne Russell of CNN.


Dennis Miller? A pre-Fascist Dennis Miller? Was Dennis Miller ever really pre-Fascist?

Maher, on his HBO show two weeks ago (audio can be downloaded at iTunes) confronted and ridiculed the rap-star "Mos Def" for Mos Def's articulate support of 9/11 Truth.

I guess Belzer's next book will have fewer blurbs.

Fewer blurbs indeed :wink: Lynne Russell revealed her own fascist tendencies during a recent appearance on Fox News w/Bill O'rly.
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YouTube - Bill O'Reilly Reports On CIA Connection to JFK Assassination
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Postby MinM » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:52 pm

rigorousintuition.ca :: View topic - Jesse Ventura's new conspiracy show
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Note to whistleblowers -
Don't do professional wrestling if you wan't to help the truth instead of hinder it. The recent movie, 'The Wrestler,' was made to discredit Jesse Ventura since he was doing a book tour and talking about CIA in state government, 9/11 truth, and the CIA murder of JFK...

The clown that played the 'Wrestler' is Pro War! Pro Bush! :thumbsup001:

Mickey Rourke Doesn't Blame Bush! - Confessions of a Closet Republican

Monday January 12,2009

ACTOR Mickey Rourke sympathises with U.S. President George W Bush - insisting he doesn't know how any politician could have successfully navigated America after the 9/11 attacks on New York...

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Mickey Rourke caught making out with Evan Rachel Wood at SAG bash! | The Dish Rag | Los Angeles Times

Ironically the 21-year old actress hanging out with the old dude is probably much more politically astute and aware than Rourke. She's the daughter of Ira David Wood III:

http://www.blackopradio.com/black408a.ram

FWIW IDWIII mentions at the 01:07:00 mark of that interview that his daughter, Evan Rachel Wood, tried to talk some sense into Tom Hanks. :shrug:
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Re: On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

Postby MinM » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:52 am

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Former CNN Anchor Kitty Pilgrim on Her New Novel ‘The Stolen Chalice’ (Q&A)
She talks about her new “romantic thriller,” making the leap from journalist to novelist and traveling the world for research.

11:05 AM PDT 8/3/2012 by Andy Lewis


Kitty Pilgrim, the CNN-anchor-turned-novelist, has a new book out, The Stolen Chalice, a follow up to her 2011 debut, The Explorer's Code, which continues the adventures of archeologist John Sinclair and Oceanographer Cordelia.

THR's 5 July Book Picks: Jagger, Jack Kennedy

Pilgrim, who is also a member of New York City’s famed Explorer’s Club and the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations in addition to being a former news anchor, talked with The Hollywood Reporter about her "romantic thriller," making the leap from reporter to novelist and traveling the world for research...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-f ... ice-358183

It's rather curious that this former low-level news anchor at CNN also happens to be a member of the CFR :?:

CIA and the Media, by Carl Bernstein 10/20/77 Rolling Stone

If you had 1 message to save the world? - CIA=Media
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