DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby brainpanhandler » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:29 am

Thank you for the response willow.

pw wrote:As to the prevalent variety, I'll point you to the article by my doc, who recently made the claim that all DID is mind control. He has since clarified this statement, and from what I hear has gone on to pen a thirty some page article about it, which I will publish here when it's ready. Critics of DID are correct in at least one of their assertions, there is reason to believe it is more common today than it ever was, due to the formal study and proliferation of trauma-based mind control techniques. viewtopic.php?p=491178#p491178


Brian Moss wrote:What is Mind Control Programming?
I use the concepts programming and mind control interchangeably. All DID systems are the result of mind control and programming techniques. I want to clarify this statement; it is very important and has serious implications. The mind does indeed dissociate naturally both in normative contexts (selective attention) and in response to trauma—but dissociative states do not self-organize into elaborate systems with the levels of complexity that we are seeing today—that is something that requires interference from without. Modern cases of DID demonstrate hierarchy and are structured to meet a variety of demands. This is never random, or entirely a response to trauma, though trauma is used to create and maintain the compartmentalization in DID. These parallel conscious states, each exhibiting their own conditioning, are what we call alters.

That DID is manufactured in its present form needs to be acknowledged in order to understand features of DID that would not otherwise make sense and also to account for the politics of this diagnosis with its troublesome implications regarding our world. Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), is the result of a century of covert research on these naturally occurring capacities of the mind. This is where our field “leads into realms of the unthinkable and founders on fundamental questions of disbelief.”

Throughout history, exploitation and control of some members of society by others is a continual theme. This control can be subtle, as with the manipulation of peoples’ belief systems through propaganda or religious dogma, or more direct and heavy-handed as with threats of persecution or violence. One of the simplest means of control is to maintain the powerlessness that comes with basic poverty/indebtedness or the lack of access to quality education. A key dynamic with the more overt forms of control is that when people are oppressed—they resist. Advanced forms of control address this fundamental dynamic by developing forms of exploitation that remain largely outside of conscious awareness both for selected individuals (DID) and the larger society (control of the public is achieved through propaganda and the manufacture of consent, an increasingly serious threat with the concentration of media).

Mind control evolved from two main foundations:

1) The Soviet discovery of conditioned reflexes (Pavlov 1903) and continued research within the field of behavioral psychology.
2) Advances in understanding the creation of parallel dissociative states with independent memory systems and control mechanisms utilizing research in hypnosis and trauma-based splitting of conscious processes.


Moss wrote:This is where our field “leads into realms of the unthinkable and founders on fundamental questions of disbelief.”



If I understand you and Moss correctly there are millions of people, perhaps as many as several million people in america alone, that have been subjected to MC RA. Is that correct?

I always imagined these were much smaller programs involving maybe thousands of victims. To do this to millions of people would require thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people to be involved. Wouldn't it? Maybe not.

I remember listening to a holocasut survivor speak in high school. We wrote letters to her afterword. The main point I made in my letter to her was how important it was for survivors such as herself to tell her story because without a first hand witness/survivor to tell the story it's almost impossible to believe so much horror could be perpetrated aginst so many people.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby Project Willow » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:26 pm

Wow. You know, I never married his statements with the figures, in my own mind. It is stunning, isn't it? I don't think Moss is delineating between people with DID who went through conditioning/torture in very formal laboratory settings and those subjected to same by amateurs in cult groups, but recognizing the influence of one set of practices on the other. Maybe he will say more about this in his upcoming paper. One expert on MC estimated the number (of the lab-created group) in the US around 300,000. Yes, I would expect at this point there are thousands of (non-victim) people aware of and/or involved in the lab based programs. It's well past time for a deathbed confession or two.

Here's another figure offered in a recent journal letter to the editor: "Epidemiological general population studies indicate that 1.1% to 1.5% meet diagnostic criteria for DID; and 8.6% to 18.3%, for any DSM-IV dissociative disorder (Johnson et al., 2006; Sar et al., 2007a)."
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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby LilyPatToo » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:14 pm

I've always had trouble wrapping my mind around the huge numbers of program survivors that are believed by some to exist. It's one of those questions I'd give almost anything to have answered, but realize that, at my age, I'll probably never know. My main problem with believing there are hoards of us it is that I've gotten pretty good at spotting likely program survivors among the other trauma survivors that I meet. Yet, with all the people I know in person and online, there are a comparative few who strike me as being the real thing. Is that just a case of my having set the bar too high? Or maybe of being ignorant of some of the signs and symptoms?

And if there are that many of us, how come really excellent witnesses and whistleblowers haven't surfaced in such numbers that the existence of the programs is a known thing? Especially with whistleblowers from inside all those vast programs--I know work like that would attract a lot of sociopaths, but surely a few of them would wake up one morning filled with horror at their actions and be smart enough to protect themselves while they disclose verifiable facts/places/perps.

I have a daydream that someday I'll open my front door and see my most recent handler (the Lawrence Livermore Lab guy) with a contrite expression on his face and that the information I've been searching for all these years will just spill out of him. And yeah I do know how silly it sounds, but it's just a daydream...

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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby Project Willow » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:00 pm

I daydream of receiving a box of 8mm reels from an anon sender in Huntsville.

I don't know LilyPat, there are half a dozen still unwitting program vics within a 3 block radius here, last time I counted, and various self identified others I run into from time to time in local businesses. There are numerous people I meet through various support groups who have DID but don't know if/how they might have been conditioned.
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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby LilyPatToo » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:45 am

Yeah, I was thinking yesterday after I posted that my own exposure to others like me is probably way more limited than yours (as an activist) or your therapist's. And many of the others like me that I did meet back when I was being actively exploited were being run by the same Mafia group in Pittsburgh, PA. With 20/20 hindsight, their bought & sold status then is very clear to me now, much clearer than in the case of a lot of the survivors I've met since, who haven't been "farmed out" to other sociopathic criminal groups. (I consider the scientists and other staff of any program to be criminals, but the white collar kind, rather than the crude, violent "wise guys" who had only a weak grasp of how to handle dissociating programmed slaves)

And my exploitation began in the late 1940's/early 50's, a long, long time ago, so that's a factor too. I'm pretty sure the number of programs back then was less than it may be now, with all the technology available to the current crop of perps. And their skill in concealing their handiwork is probably hugely improved. I was part of the MC "Model T" generation :wink:

So my difficulty believing that there are vast numbers of survivors remains, but I acknowledge that it's probably just a case of my mind not being able to take in the probable size/number of the programs.

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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby LilyPatToo » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:59 am

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll perform necromancy on this thread and hope it's appropriate. On pain meds, I dissociate more than usual while online and can't for the life of me remember how/where I found this yesterday, but I want to share it anyway. It's British and describes the reactions of a young therapist encountering DID for the first time:
Confessions of a trauma therapist
By Margaret Collingwood

I don’t think there was ever any teaching on trauma in the counselling training I did. But when I was doing my student placement during my diploma, it was mentioned that there was a person who was losing time, and they wondered if this person might actually be dissociated. I was asked if I would be willing take her on. To prepare for this, I read the book When Rabbit Howls – that was all I knew about Dissociative Identity Disorder. The whole thing was alarming for me and so unreal and unnatural. How could anyone have more than one personality? I was also very squeamish about anything to do with Satan or the Devil – I wouldn’t even say the words. I was a vicar’s wife, and wanted nothing to do with this side of life at all. I couldn’t have been more ill-prepared or more naїve. But I met with this lady and during the very first session a young child part appeared. She was sussing me out, talking to me and telling me her name and I sat there, absolutely thunderstruck and frozen, thinking, “Now what do I do?!” I had no idea at all, but I just spoke back to this little one as I would to a child. I tried to be totally honest and welcoming, as if this was the most natural thing in the world to do – which of course it is now – but back then I was thinking, “What have I done? How do I get back to Sarah?” And so when we started approaching the end of the session, I asked nervously, “Could Sarah come back please?” and back she came. She had been mid-sentence when she had broken off and switched, and she picked up exactly where she had been and finished her sentence. I was absolutely bewildered, shocked and amazed. So that’s how I started...


That patient was lucky to have gotten such an open-minded mental health worker--my own therapy experiences pretty much sucked after I started sharing the scarier memories suggestive of organized abuse. Project Willow's written about her amazingly supportive doctor, but I'd like to know more about other DID RIers' experiences in therapy. I wonder sometimes whether it's partly my fault that I'm just not believed--that I'm presenting it awkwardly or something? Or is it just bad luck that the therapists I've tried were more conventional/less open-minded than is the norm? What is the current norm for mental health professionals' willingness to believe memories of systematized severe abuse?

The group that put this up online also has a Facebook page, a WordPress page and a Wiki that I have yet to read through.

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Re: DID/RA/MC Post & Inquiry

Postby Project Willow » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:38 pm

Thanks for sharing this LilyPat. I knew about PODs, it's a good site, but I hadn't seen the other projects. I like the wiki so far, and how they're doing outreach through multiple social media platforms.

On edit: Of course it's not your fault! One of the first things this therapist mentions is how she didn't receive training on trauma during her education. That's ridiculous, but also reflects the sad state of the practice. I noticed if you flip through the various resources in the links you posted, there are lists of contacts for trauma therapy referrals.
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