Brian Moss on DID

[LilyPatToo]

Now I really need to query my local DID friends about the extent of their alter systems My first reaction to Dr. Moss's statement is that it's as biased toward MC as conventional therapists are against it.* And personally that's refreshing, after years of skeptical therapists and "experts" on the subject, to find such validation.

But if DID has always occurred, then the cases he dismisses as "early, primitive" should be abundant, given all the abusive parents and kids with a tendency toward dissociation. And I suspect that many of them have multiple alters, not just one or two. I'm thinking of the author of Rabbit Howls, whose abuse was severe and prolonged, but not (that I can recall) program-related. It's been a while since I read the book, but I think I remember a lot of alters, certainly more than one or two. Also, my friends have mentioned rage alters as well as child alters, so that seems to be naturally-occurring to me, though based on a tiny sample.

I guess what I'm saying is that I love Dr Moss But his cut-off for alter system complexity seems a bit arbitrary to me. I do get that a system with a high degree of organization has to be the result of formal programming though. So to me it's organizational complexity rather than size that would be an indicator for program involvement.

LilyPat

*i.e. the current, almost universal "it's due to early abuse by parents/caregivers" (which implies that we're fantasizing paranoid conspiracy types) or that it's a response to a single overwhelming traumatic incident.

[Project Willow]

^ I imagine Brian would suggest that these survivors are describing the characteristics of their front alter sections and probably haven't gotten to the deeper levels yet.

UNDERSTANDING OF DEEPER STRUCTURES OF DID
While allowing for some variation, most programming follows standard protocols. The front/normative
section is designed to be free from interference and highly functioning as long as the covert aspects of the
system remain unknown and there is compliance with the demands of the programmers/handlers. Many therapists
deal with leaking or triggered trauma scenes related to sexual abuse and ritual abuse without ever getting to
the deeper structures and teams involved in covert activities or the programming responsible for it. The
trauma scenes act like a mine field keeping these deeper structures and parts hidden and compartmentalized.

[Project Willow]

Further clarification:

What is Mind Control Programming?
I use the concepts programming and mind control interchangeably. All DID systems are the result of mind control and programming techniques. I want to clarify this statement; it is very important and has serious implications. The mind does indeed dissociate naturally both in normative contexts (selective attention) and in response to trauma—but dissociative states do not self-organize into elaborate systems with the levels of complexity that we are seeing today—that is something that requires interference from without. Modern cases of DID demonstrate hierarchy and are structured to meet a variety of demands. This is never random, or entirely a response to trauma, though trauma is used to create and maintain the compartmentalization in DID. These parallel conscious states, each exhibiting their own conditioning, are what we call alters.

That DID is manufactured in its present form needs to be acknowledged in order to understand features of DID that would not otherwise make sense and also to account for the politics of this diagnosis with its troublesome implications regarding our world. Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), is the result of a century of covert research on these naturally occurring capacities of the mind. This is where our field “leads into realms of the unthinkable and founders on fundamental questions of disbelief.”

Throughout history, exploitation and control of some members of society by others is a continual theme. This control can be subtle, as with the manipulation of peoples’ belief systems through propaganda or religious dogma, or more direct and heavy-handed as with threats of persecution or violence. One of the simplest means of control is to maintain the powerlessness that comes with basic poverty/indebtedness or the lack of access to quality education. A key dynamic with the more overt forms of control is that when people are oppressed—they resist. Advanced forms of control address this fundamental dynamic by developing forms of exploitation that remain largely outside of conscious awareness both for selected individuals (DID) and the larger society (control of the public is achieved through propaganda and the manufacture of consent, an increasingly serious threat with the concentration of media).

Mind control evolved from two main foundations:

1) The Soviet discovery of conditioned reflexes (Pavlov 1903) and continued research within the field of behavioral psychology.
2) Advances in understanding the creation of parallel dissociative states with independent memory systems and control mechanisms utilizing research in hypnosis and trauma-based splitting of conscious processes.

[Hammer of Los]

...

Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), is the result of a century of covert research on these naturally occurring capacities of the mind.

Ah.

Quite so.

Nothing more natural and vital.

God bless Dr Moss and keep him and his family safe.

...

[LilyPatToo]

Thanks for the additional info. His heart's definitely in the right place. I just worry that he's needlessly sabotaging his chances of acceptance by his colleagues by making what sounds like a blanket statement that ALL DID is a result of programming. And I'm very invested in his work reaching a wider audience within the therapeutic community.

I'm so glad he addresses the psychic programs too. They were an important part of my own history, but I hesitate to talk about them to therapists, lest it invalidate all of my history in their eyes. The last meeting I had with the handler associated with psy stuff was one of the most overt and undisguised instances of interference and public programming (that I've been allowed to remember) that's ever happened to me. I'll try for the rest of my life to find more information on those programs, operatives and, especially, my fellow psychic guinea pigs.

I too have concerns for Dr. Moss's personal safety and professional reputation. He would seem to be a prime target for the clean-up crews, which just sucks. I used to tell myself that as the MKULTRA contingent died off, records would be declassified, but from what Moss is seeing, programs are still going strong and there's as much reason to keep it "black" as ever

LilyPat

[Project Willow]

Thanks for the additional info. His heart's definitely in the right place. I just worry that he's needlessly sabotaging his chances of acceptance by his colleagues by making what sounds like a blanket statement that ALL DID is a result of programming. And I'm very invested in his work reaching a wider audience within the therapeutic community.

I understand that, but as he says quite eloquently, the small contingent of the clinical community that deals with mind control is already relegated to the fringes. If, as studies suggest, DID occurs in 1 to 3% of the population, is this due solely to increased awareness and diagnosis of the once rare disorder, or is it due to the development and proliferation of mind control techniques in the late twentieth century?

I too have concerns for Dr. Moss's personal safety and professional reputation. He would seem to be a prime target for the clean-up crews, which just sucks. I used to tell myself that as the MKULTRA contingent died off, records would be declassified, but from what Moss is seeing, programs are still going strong and there's as much reason to keep it "black" as ever.

If there's one thing that is clear to me it is that the technology works, and very well. The percentage of subjects who become fully free of programming is small. However, unless the perps perfect it to such a degree, and manage to squelch every potential bystander/whistleblower leak, the dam will eventually break.

Brian knows what he's up against and takes good care of himself.

[LilyPatToo]

If, as studies suggest, DID occurs in 1 to 3% of the population, is this due solely to increased awareness and diagnosis of the once rare disorder, or is it due to the development and proliferation of mind control techniques in the late twentieth century?

I wonder about this too. Having never seen a therapist who was knowledgeable about the programs, I've never had a professional to ask opinions of, but in my case I wasn't aware of having DID, despite all the missing time and other markers for the disorder, until I was in my 50's. I suspect that such ignorance is common, which means that there may be many more multiples walking around undiagnosed. And those of us with programming designed to hide all traces of program involvement may take a lot of years to show unmistakable signs of it.

Hormonal changes at menopause seemed to trigger the breakdown of compartmentalization in me and I wonder if I would ever have caught on had that not happened around the same time I first learned of the programs online via other survivors? Sometimes I imagine an alternate timeline where I'm still wandering around in ignorance, confusion and panic, covering up my "memory lapses" and trying not to think too much about the periodic interference of scary strangers in my life.

And, for all the FMSF babble about iatrogenic cases, my own experience suggests that conventional therapy may be inadvertently covering up many cases of programming, rather than inducing them. A therapist is a powerful figure and if they invalidate your experiences it's so much easier to slip into self-doubt and decide to isolate in silence rather than take on the work of healing.

If there's one thing that is clear to me it is that the technology works, and very well. The percentage of subjects who become fully free of programming is small. However, unless the perps perfect it to such a degree, and manage to squelch every potential bystander/whistleblower leak, the dam will eventually break.

Brian knows what he's up against and takes good care of himself.

I'm glad to hear that he's vigilant and not in denial about the long reach of the perps. The technology does work well, but I suspect that, as the programming was disseminated outside of the government labs back in the Church Committee era, it fell into the hands of non-professionals now and then. And some of them didn't have the rigorous containment that cults impose on their members, which led to some of us falling into the hands of people who failed to follow protocols.

Some of my first clues about what I was came from sloppy handling and I'll bet I'm far from the only one to experience that. I'd love to know if the pros have eliminated that kind of dangerous leak now. It seems to have been directly related to the sale of access to specific alters to anyone with the money or connections to be able to afford it, at least in my own case. My hope is that a braggart who believes himself to be above the reach of retribution will someday publicly spill enough of the beans to expose the programs in a way that can't be spun. I used to think that exposure could come from victim testimony alone, but it's so easy to invalidate our testimony while working within the framework of mental health standards founded by MKULTRA veterans. We need more Dr. Mosses.

LilyPat