True Detective on HBO

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby brekin » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:48 pm

"Cohle describes the possibility of other dimensions existing, and he says that’s what eternity is," Pizzolatto continued. "He says that if somehow you existed outside of time, you’d be able to see the whole of our dimension as one superstructure with matter superimposed at every position it had ever occupied. He says that the nature of the universe is your consciousness, and it just keeps cycling along the same point in that superstructure: when you die, you’re reborn into yourself again, and you just keep living the same life over and over. He also explains that from a higher mathematical vantage point, our dimension would seem less dimensional. It would look flattened, almost."

Pizzolatto took a bite of his branzino. "Now, think about all the things Cohle is talking about," he said as he finished chewing. "Is he a man railing against an uncaring god? Or is he a character in a TV show railing against his audience? Aren't we the creatures of that higher dimension? The creatures who can see the totality of his world? After all, we get to see all eight episodes of his life. On a flat screen. And we can watch him live that same life over and over again, the exact same way."


Intriguing, intriguing. I'm curious to see how they marble this into the narrative. There have been a few too many "You know how we are different? You say po-tat-oe and I say pot-at-oe" dialogue exchanges between Rust and Martin when they jump from the trivial to the philosophizing plane without clutch. But I'm really enjoying Rust and Martin's later interviews and think it is a great device to get away with getting a little philosophizing. I really hope they are able to make the philosophy active and more showing than telling as happened in The Wire. But I'm going to shut up until I see the latest episode.

Image
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:49 pm

Carcosa or Bust: The Satisfyingly Weird Mysteries of ‘True Detective’
Image

Hallucinatory spirals, talk of “black stars” rising in the sky, dead women trussed up like ancient horned gods and tattooed with mysterious symbols, all supposedly in reference to Robert W. Chambers’s fairly obscure weird fiction classic The King in Yellow? Damn, True Detective, you’ve given me a lot to absorb.

Where is the show going with its recently clarified Lovecraftian ties? Does it even really matter, when the ride is this great? The most satisfying part of a mystery is rarely its resolution. Sustained anticipation is much of the thrill. Like earlier TV mysteries Twin Peaks, The X-Files, and Lost, True Detective is a show with its own internal mythology, which taunts both the protagonists and viewers with signs just beyond our comprehension. When some bits of information are guaranteed to be important later, every single bit of information feels like a potential clue. Attempting to read a show scene by scene and pluck out exactly what will prove crucial from a galaxy of visual and verbal details can feel absolutely maddening.

A great dark mystery show can inspire the faithful to drop everything else in their life to spend all their time examining the current available information and speculating on the future. The best shows are all-consuming in a life-affirming way, like a book you cannot put down. True Detective has dropped several potentially meaningful references to The King in Yellow, a book of short stories organized around a fictional play of the same name. The play is only excerpted in brief in the book, but it is described as being a trigger for insanity, with a standard first act that leads into a second act that unhinges viewers into psychosis. Despite everyone in the world of the book knowing that reading or watching The King in Yellow will make you go crazy, the characters keep giving in to temptation and curiosity, unable to resist the pull of finding out what the second act will hold.

The idea of a piece of media that literally ruins your life has persisted; David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest centers on a film called “the Entertainment” that makes viewers unable to do anything but keep watching it until they die, and Neal Stephenson’s cyberpunk classic Snow Crash concerns a viral opium-like drug that dooms its downloaders. As a concept, it feels extremely relevant to the age of binge-watching, when networks and showrunners are banking on our collective desire to lose hours of our life absorbed in something more exciting than real life. Because True Detective is a weekly show, that leaves six days between episodes to rewatch the available episodes and read other people’s opinions on Twitter and in blog posts, while keeping 10 other tabs open to research the otherworldly cursed city of Carcosa. True Detective instantly provoked obsessive fixation in viewers, parallel with Marty and Rust’s inability (or unwillingness) to control their own obsessions. True Detective teases that we might all be getting addicted to a show that is going to somehow push us over the edge.

You can spend endless amounts of time pondering True Detective’s more concrete questions, let alone the existential ones. Are the wooden triangles strewn around the sites of the ritualistic murders pagan symbols, bird traps, or neither? Given creator Nic Pizzolatto’s professed affection for weird fiction, were Reggie Ledoux’s gas mask and the reference to a “green-eared spaghetti monster” meant to invoke Cthulhu, the giant octopus monster that signals cosmic doom in the work of seminal horror writer H.P. Lovecraft? Is the mystery even going to get solved? True Detective’s flashback structure accentuates the gaps in our knowledge. Everything we know is gleaned from flashbacks and interrogations, but there’s no guarantee that future information won’t flip our perspective. Hell, there’s no guarantee that Rust and Marty’s flashbacks are accurate. After all, if we can see Rust’s subjective hallucination of birds assembling into a spiral in the sky, who’s to say we’re not seeing other events from his subjective perspective too? This kind of theorizing, not baseless but impossible to prove conclusively, will make you feel like True Detective’s detectives. Maybe the show’s obsessions with madness, reality, and truth really are contagious.

True Detective’s closest relative is Twin Peaks, which mined similarly nocturnal depths. Both shows espouse mythologies that feel extremely personal to the creators but also eerily universal, tapping into the same brain waves as paradoxical sleep. From this subterranean level, we get an unusually lucid view of pervasive Jungian archetypes: family dynamics, virgin/whore issues, the battle between body and mind. Rust and Marty represent two poles of maleness on one swampy plane, an anima and animus. But neither one is locked into type, and Rust is especially facile with shifting selves to serve his situation. He talks about his lack of belief in a self from the very first episode. Rust’s cosmic rambling could come off as pretentious were it not balanced by the biting straightforwardness of Woody Harrelson as Marty, who finds Rust’s nihilism tiresome and very much lets him know. Matthew McConaughey’s performance plays just the right chord, toggling between cynical acid-head and secret prophet. His light touch with Rust makes even the show’s heaviest philosophical medicine go down like Dr. Pepper in a Big Hug Mug.

It doesn’t take long before Rust’s LSD-addled mind-set rubs off and everything seems connected. Suddenly you’re no longer just reading about True Detective. You’re reading about Fibonacci spirals in nature and the satanic ritual abuse moral panic of the 1980s. You’re listening to The Division Bell. The show leaks into your daily consciousness during the times you’re not watching it. It starts giving new shape and meaning to the outside world. It seeps into your subconscious, and you hear multiple reports from friends about nightmares that incorporated elements or characters from True Detective. But while a deep dig into the show’s mythology turns up lots of interesting worms, it’s not necessary to enjoy it. And even the most avid conspiracists acknowledge that their own private theories may likely turn out to be bunk. The theorizing is fun, but not as fun as the show, which offsets its metaphysical high-mindedness with fleshly punches to the gut.

Suspense also has a strong sexual component. Director Cary Fukunaga staged the six-minute shot that closed out the fourth episode as a display of stamina, nearly doubling the length of Orson Welles’s iconic opening shot from True Detective’s hard-boiled forefather Touch of Evil. Nothing demonstrates the scope of a director’s control like a long take. It’s this kind of ambition that makes True Detective such transcendent television, and so addictive. Waiting for the next episode feels like waiting to see an incredibly intense crush you get to see only once a week.

Fukunaga and Pizzolatto have an avatar in the show’s villain. Whoever the killer nicknamed The Yellow King might be, he is always two steps ahead of our antiheroes, leaving bread crumbs in the form of inscrutable symbols that beg for interpretation (and overinterpretation). Pizzolatto has been open about the horror roots of his twisty noir, naming writers like Laird Barron, Simon Strantzas, and Thomas Ligotti as influences on his work. The show straddles several genres and answers to none; it’s a spiritual noir, a buddy cop show, a murder mystery, philosophical horror, and Southern Gothic. It bends the branches of its more familiar tropes until they are as gnarled and knotted as an old oak’s. But like McConaughey, True Detective somehow makes even the most high-wire stunts look easy. The show’s supernatural trimmings seem to be allegorical, and I’d be very surprised if any monsters showed up other than the human variety, who frankly are already scary enough.

One of the biggest issues that plagued Twin Peaks, Lost, and The X-Files was that they ran for multiple seasons. They all set up their mythologies and mysteries to pay off big, and the longer they ran the larger that payoff was expected to be. Twin Peaks fumbled in its second season after solving the initial mystery. Lost gave viewers too many red herrings, then incited their wrath with a disappointingly magical ending. By the time The X-Files fully explained its unbelievably complicated mythology, the audience was no longer as rapt as they’d once been. Maybe just answering the questions at all is bound to be disappointing. When the answers do come, the pleasure of wondering what they will be comes to a halt. And all those hours spent keeping track of fictional numbers, events, and characters start to feel like a fever dream.

What True Detective has on its side that those other shows didn’t is its format. It’s an anthology show, akin to a miniseries. We have no idea whether the next season will also be about unspeakable cosmic horror and swamp murders. Five episodes in, True Detective’s big questions still remain open. But three episodes from now, we’ll know everything there is to know. We want answers more than anything, but we also never want this season to end. Even if True Detective does drive us all crazy with its second act, I’d rewatch it in a heartbeat. I keep getting older, and time is a flat circle. See y’all in Carcosa!
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murita cycles

Postby IanEye » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:09 pm

*


Image

Image

*

well, Judas, he just winked & said

“all right, i’ll leave you here
but you’d better hurry up & choose which of those bills you want
before they all disappear”


Image

“i’m gonna start my pickin’ right now

just tell me where you’ll be”

Judas pointed down the road

& said, “Eternity!”


.

“Eternity?” said Frankie Lee

with a voice as cold as ice

“That’s right,” said Judas Priest, “Eternity

though you might call it ‘Paradise’”


Image

“i don’t call it anything”
said Frankie Lee with a smile

“all right,” said Judas Priest

“i’ll see you after a while"


*

Image

"In eternity where there is no time, nothing can grow, nothing can become, nothing changes.
So death created time to grow the things that it would kill.
And you are reborn but into the same life that you’ve always been born into.
How many times have we had this conversation, Detectives?"




"Well, who knows?
You can’t remember your lives. You can’t change your lives.
And that is the terrible and secret fate of all life.
You’re trapped in a nightmare you keep waking up into."



*
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Re: murita cycles

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:37 am



That image, definitely the most striking to me of the whole series. Geez now Ive got so many people I know hooked on the show.
I was rewatching episode 5, by far my favorite, and thinking how its Mcconaughey's dialogue with the two detectives that is
so gasp for air tense almost more than the chase/action/violence scenes.

I wonder if the writer was familiar with Franklin/Decamp investigations, Dutroux Belgium case, etc. Also a bit of West Memphis 3 vibe as far as media coverage.
There's a lot of "serial killer/gruesome killing of the week" procedural shows on tv, especially since the latter 90s...but not sure if any of them delved
into such truly rabbit hole scenarios as the stuff hinted at here. From the last scene of the episode 6 preview, it definitely seems like this series is "going there",
right down into this "carcosa".
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everything keeps dissolving

Postby IanEye » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:50 am

8bitagent » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:37 am wrote:


That image, definitely the most striking to me of the whole series.


*



Image


Time Machines from the Heart of Darkness

Image
a black star ritual in NYC - 2001

where is your child? - 2004
Image
where is your child? - 2008

Image
backwards

*

Image
child in a tree

The detective's daughters are playing outside with a golden tiara.
One of them takes the yellow crown and throws it up into the boughs of a tree.
Then we all travel through time.

*
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:04 am

Ha, indeed first thing I thought of was the NIN/COIL mix collabs from 1995 and the cover to the NIN/Foetus 1995 EP
Image

A lot of the images in True Detective do remind me of tropes seen in 90's entertainment(Blair Witch, NIN videos, etc)
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Jerky » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:43 am

Anybody have any quick theories or speculations as to the reason why Harrelson's character would be wearing that particular PINK FLOYD t-shirt during the shoot-out at the meth-cook's Satanic abode? Division Bell graphic, if I recall correctly. You so rarely see Pink Floyd referenced in popular culture (oddly enough, seeing as they're, like, Beatles-level popular around the world) that this instance really popped out at me.

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Jerky » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:35 am

Image

This crazy image is on mother of victim Dora Lang's mantle when the detectives go visit her.

Kind of suspicious, ain't it?

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby justdrew » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:45 am

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:06 am

Jerky » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:35 am wrote:Image

This crazy image is on mother of victim Dora Lang's mantle when the detectives go visit her.

Kind of suspicious, ain't it?

Jerky


Ooh nice find, forgot about that. I at first thought it was just an old picture of a family's racist Klan heritage...but on closer inspection it reminds me of the early 1900's Bohemian Grove photos.
Perhaps it's a generational cult angle.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby justdrew » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:10 am

ALSO...

we're supposed to be scared of a spiral? why because it coils like a snake?

Image

I'm a little leery of the whole use of more-or-less clearly "pagan" iconography as scare objects and it's continual conflation with something the characters call satanism.

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby brekin » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:45 pm

Jerky wrote:
Anybody have any quick theories or speculations as to the reason why Harrelson's character would be wearing that particular PINK FLOYD t-shirt during the shoot-out at the meth-cook's Satanic abode? Division Bell graphic, if I recall correctly. You so rarely see Pink Floyd referenced in popular culture (oddly enough, seeing as they're, like, Beatles-level popular around the world) that this instance really popped out at me.
YOPJerky


Image Image

Yeah, that caught my eye to. Just on a visual level there definitely are two opposites or partial individuals meeting (or being reunited?) to create a new being. A thesis, antithesis, and synthesis process. Cohle and Hart (who are also opposites that complete each other in a sense) seem to be the counterparts to LeDoux and Dewall. The meth bust is really a big turning point in the series I thought. Cohle and Hart confront LeDoux and Dewall and encounter the real darkness they've been chasing. Cohle and Hart both cross over in a sense because they break the law in executing LeDoux and cover it up. Similiar to Se7en, the evil man initiates the good man into trangressing societies natural or normal order. Dewall in the diner and LeDoux at the compound though allude to being familiar with Cohle or that he himself carries some darkness with him. Strangely Dewall seemed to tell Cohle at the diner, we aren't compatible, while LeDoux seemed to tell Cohle when he met him, we are compatible, we've done this before and will do it again. My hunch, with other teasers in that episode, is that Cohle is the Yellow King, or was, or is a counterpart somehow to the Yellow King.

Also LeDoux's body is an obvious smorgasbord of allusions to things that will tie in somehow. I think his noose is riffing on some hanged man tarot theme. A Christ anti-Christ duality. Where what is up is down. Redemption is damnation, where the shadow "church" he belongs to finds salvation in death and destruction, perhaps, and has a counterpart front straight church as a cover. There is a lot of obvious Christ imagery with LaDoux in that scene. Perhaps as son of the Yellow King he had to die for Cohle's sins? The two detectives interviewing Hart seem to imply Cohle had possibly killed people to cover his own tracks. LeDoux's crazy speech is framed like he is some twisted messiah whose message is too dark to be accepted and must be sacrificed. Cohle repeatedly tells LeDoux to shut up, but years later is speaking his words verbatim as if he is now a disciple.

Image
Image

It would be interesting to look at Floyd's catalog and see what albums/songs sync up with different scenes, episodes. The montage of Cohle and Hart settling into a domestic routine in their lives and careers after the meth shootout brought "Comfortably Numb" to mind.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby 0_0 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:03 pm

So far i've watched the first two episodes which i ilegally downloaded and i have to say that it's beautifully filmed and the acting is solid, but the plot seems like a total rehash of twin peaks for the 21th century. And like twin peaks it's offputtingly misogynist, only even more so. There literally wasn't one female character that wasn't a prostitute or coffeegetter or victim or dead and naked. And don't give me that crap about how it's not misogynist but a story ABOUT misogony because i'm not buying it. Same old stupid copglorifying chainsmoking beerdrinking machismo as so many other series mixed up with some hip "dark" occultery that you know beforehand is never gonna make any sense in the end. Sry to be a partypooper. :crybaby
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby RocketMan » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:11 pm

brekin » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:45 pm wrote:Jerky wrote:
Anybody have any quick theories or speculations as to the reason why Harrelson's character would be wearing that particular PINK FLOYD t-shirt during the shoot-out at the meth-cook's Satanic abode? Division Bell graphic, if I recall correctly. You so rarely see Pink Floyd referenced in popular culture (oddly enough, seeing as they're, like, Beatles-level popular around the world) that this instance really popped out at me.
YOPJerky


Image Image

Yeah, that caught my eye to. Just on a visual level there definitely are two opposites or partial individuals meeting (or being reunited?) to create a new being. A thesis, antithesis, and synthesis process. Cohle and Hart (who are also opposites that complete each other in a sense) seem to be the counterparts to LeDoux and Dewall. The meth bust is really a big turning point in the series I thought. Cohle and Hart confront LeDoux and Dewall and encounter the real darkness they've been chasing. Cohle and Hart both cross over in a sense because they break the law in executing LeDoux and cover it up. Similiar to Se7en, the evil man initiates the good man into trangressing societies natural or normal order. Dewall in the diner and LeDoux at the compound though allude to being familiar with Cohle or that he himself carries some darkness with him. Strangely Dewall seemed to tell Cohle at the diner, we aren't compatible, while LeDoux seemed to tell Cohle when he met him, we are compatible, we've done this before and will do it again. My hunch, with other teasers in that episode, is that Cohle is the Yellow King, or was, or is a counterpart somehow to the Yellow King.

Also LeDoux's body is an obvious smorgasbord of allusions to things that will tie in somehow. I think his noose is riffing on some hanged man tarot theme. A Christ anti-Christ duality. Where what is up is down. Redemption is damnation, where the shadow "church" he belongs to finds salvation in death and destruction, perhaps, and has a counterpart front straight church as a cover. There is a lot of obvious Christ imagery with LaDoux in that scene. Perhaps as son of the Yellow King he had to die for Cohle's sins? The two detectives interviewing Hart seem to imply Cohle had possibly killed people to cover his own tracks. LeDoux's crazy speech is framed like he is some twisted messiah whose message is too dark to be accepted and must be sacrificed. Cohle repeatedly tells LeDoux to shut up, but years later is speaking his words verbatim as if he is now a disciple.

Image
Image

It would be interesting to look at Floyd's catalog and see what albums/songs sync up with different scenes, episodes. The montage of Cohle and Hart settling into a domestic routine in their lives and careers after the meth shootout brought "Comfortably Numb" to mind.


I think the head tattoo that Ledoux has on his right breast looks off-puttingly like Rust Cohle.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby brekin » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:13 pm

0_0 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:03 pm wrote:So far i've watched the first two episodes which i ilegally downloaded and i have to say that it's beautifully filmed and the acting is solid, but the plot seems like a total rehash of twin peaks for the 21th century. And like twin peaks it's offputtingly misogynist, only even more so. There literally wasn't one female character that wasn't a prostitute or coffeegetter or victim or dead and naked. And don't give me that crap about how it's not misogynist but a story ABOUT misogony because i'm not buying it. Same old stupid copglorifying chainsmoking beerdrinking machismo as so many other series mixed up with some hip "dark" occultery that you know beforehand is never gonna make any sense in the end. Sry to be a partypooper. :crybaby


Your spot on I think in parts. As a man I have to say something about men hunting other men to expose a deep evil mystery is very appealing. And yeah sexuality, intimacy and male/female relationships are portrayed as problems to be managed or avoided overall. The last episode had a line that pretty much summed up that ethos I thought. Cohle or Hart are describing how the other's marriage or long term relationship dissolved. "What happened?" he's asked. "The same thing that happens to every man and woman. Reality." There are other scenes, Hart confronting his daughter about her appearance and later when she's caught fooling around with two guys, and Hart's wife accusing Cohle of being like all other men that make rationalizations for their bad behavior, where he promptly just leaves the diner, show that they aren't able to confront their own failings. Hart is a generic sketch of a womanizer, but then those people aren't very rare in real life either.

But in fairness while the women portrayed in the show in beginning are very cliche ridden, Hart's wife and Cohle's girl friend are more positive than most, albeit in positive or strong cliches. And the show I don't think overall is chauvinistic, because the primary males are shown as very flawed, even failing or failed for the most part. In fact, the male leads compared to most of the female characters come off worse in comparison. The show being a study of imperfect men then I think shows the costs of being a machismo, chain smoking, beer drinking self glorified cop. And I've got a hunch that it isn't going to end well for them for some reason to so there's probably a message in there somewhere. And so far those men who've kill women have been portrayed as vile, vile human beings. Which is a change from a good amount of the charming male serial killers lately. (If later it is discovered Cohle is on it, though, then that could be a pretty rough reversal.)
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