History of the Orgonite/Cloudbuster Movement

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Postby TooStoned » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:50 pm

Dear Dragon,

Reducing Carbon Footprints is an integral part of "fighting them" and helping to stop damaging the biota.

Every part of your Mudball process, cloud busting, et al requires heavy industrial input (Epoxy, Al, Cu, SiO2Crystals: you ever realize how big the petro chem industry is? largest US export in terms of dollars never mind the mineral mining concerns) and propigates all the concomitant enviormental/social/economic damage that they incur to the greater weal of all.

I can prove every part of what I say, can you?

If you can let's agree to meet at the Tucson Gem Show (only 2.5 hrs away for you and 1 for me) in the next couple of weaksbecause I've got what I consider a death tower right near me:

http://www.roamad.com/roamad/

and http://www.wi-vod.com/

(don't worry I am a proponent of "ahimsa" and even If I bluster I'll never bludgeon (jah willing!))


Telexx:

I think you should be more rigorous in your vocab, it permits precision and assures accuracy. Magick is not usually expanded in definition to include Orgon, Chi, Prana, etc. but even allowing your mushy definition to mean the same thing, you are not being very rigorous in your argument either. Chi cannot be measured but acupuncture works. If any of this stuff works it can be demonstrated in a verifiable way, otherwise we're just keeping stories going for entertainment purposes...
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, no one but ourselves can free our minds" - RNM
"I'm not Coyote.You're Coyote. I'm Another One." - Wile E. Coyote (AKA Sin'klipt)
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Postby Telexx » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Telexx:

I think you should be more rigorous in your vocab, it permits precision and assures accuracy. Magick is not usually expanded in definition to include Orgon, Chi, Prana, etc. but even allowing your mushy definition to mean the same thing...


I really don't see that a definition of 'magick' as including orgon/chi/prana as being unduly expanded or mushy, it's simply realistic (as much as that can mean anything, given we're talking about the unreal).

Magick is nothing in fact without 'life energy' so are you not just being a bit argumentative without reason, hmmn?

...you are not being very rigorous in your argument either. Chi cannot be measured but acupuncture works.


My argument is fine: you can say 'acupuncture' works but, in reality, there are many in the medical establishment would would argue against that, citing chi as the very source of their skepticism.

If any of this stuff works it can be demonstrated in a verifiable way, otherwise we're just keeping stories going for entertainment purposes...


Which is why no disagreement exists whatsoever as to the efficacy of so-called 'complementary' and 'alternative' therapies, hmmn? ;-) Clearly there is something awry with your assertion.

Thanks,

Telexx

ON EDIT: Changed the word disbelief to skepticism
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Magick.......

Postby dragon » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:11 pm

You're getting real close to the truth, there, Telexx. Orgonite, cloudbusters, Triniti Wands and some other stuff sort of straddles the border between the Newtonian 3-D world and the non-physical world.

If you go back in time, say 400 years ago, and bring a Bic lighter with you, demonstrate it to folks you meet there, you would probably be burned as a witch. It doesn't fit into their Reality Box. Neither does time travel, for that matter! So it is that things that are not understood by some can be just as real as things that are understood. And just as far out as that Bic lighter would have been in 1607.

It was noted early on in the movement that the builder influenced the power of the device. That, we know now, is simply quantum physics. It is also known that site location has an input on the effectiveness of any given orgone device. These are variables that may not be understood by the f.n.'s or the TooStoned members of the population, but the effect is just as real.

Wasn't it Dr.Abrams who, early on in his radionics work, learned that the direction the patient faced had an effect on the reading when he was tapping stomachs? How do you explain that to an f.n.? You don't, not really. You can explain Easter to a rabbit, but you can't make him understand. Same with those two guys. And others, too, to be fair.

But, if you understand quantum physics, and non-locality, then it all makes perfect sense.

When you begin to examine 'reality', the more closely you examine it, the more 'un-real' it appears. When you disassemble a bit of matter into its smallest component parts, what you are left with is not matter at all, it is bundles of energy. There is actually no 'substance' to substance. The world, the universe as we know it, is a hologram. As Seth/Jane wrote in one of her books, it is only solid because we have all agreed that it is solid. Step outside of that agreement, and you can do wondrous things, such as bi-locate or travel in time.

To understand non-locality, search out this DVD: Mike Wright, NON-LOCALITY AND THE OBSERVER. Once you understand that, then you can understand how it is that I am able to affect people in Florida, which I did last night and the night before. That's because 'here' and 'there' are all the same thing. Time? Kinda the same way. It's all one great, big "now". That's why I say that time and space have no meaning in the work I do when I go after someone remotely. There is no place for them to hide, not on this planet, not on any other.

That is why it is also possible to mess up their equipment remotely, because it is only a hologram, just like the rest of the Universe.

And what I tell you is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. There are others out there who do far more wondrous things than I do. They just don't talk much about it. Talking about it is my job, because I can handle the hoot-down artists, the Blue Pill sheeple, and the ocassional agent.

I pass along these stories in the hope that others will be inspired to do as we all have done. Most of you will not be able to leave your body and wreak havoc on some un-suspecting child molester in another part of the country. But let me tell you, if you ever do, you'll find that it is one very satisfying experience. What you can do, though, is neutralize the death force towers in your area. You can erase the chemtrails over your head. You can learn about agnihotra and begin reaping the benefits from the ceremony right away.

The other side fears our mind power, and this came out in Ingo's book, though not discussed on that thread. We can literally think ourselves into a better world. We can literally think them off this planet and into another dimension. It's been done!

Now, what's this about Al Bielek? I have watched hours of his lectures on video tape, and he didn't drool once. He's a vampire? Where's Buffy?

Phil Scheider may not have given you a map, with X's all over it to mark the spot. But he did name some names, and the rest are not all that hard to find.

Look. If it was easy, we'd get little girls to do it.

Dragon
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Magick.......

Postby dragon » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:15 pm

Edited to remove double post.

Dragon
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dragon tales

Postby professorpan » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:22 pm

I say again to those two; what are YOU doing about the problem? Reducing your 'carbon footprint' will not neutralize one single death force tower, or mothball one single chemcrud spray plane.


That's assuming there are, indeed, "death force" towers and airplanes spraying chemicals. I see little evidence for either, although I will consider the possibility that there are limited spraying programs of some kind.

Death, disease and drought continue to fall out of the sky.


Again, in your opinion -- I see no direct evidence, nor have you presented any.

I'm doing something about it. What's your plan?


The human mind is an incredibly powerful sculptor of our reality tunnels, and some of us get drawn into tunnels that are built more on illusion than reality.

If I told you I remote viewed etheric alien parasites in your brain, how do you know if I'm correct? Suppose I designed a special power rod that I claimed could detect those parasites? How, exactly, would you know if I was telling the truth? If you wouldn't believe me, why should I believe you when you tell me similarly unprovable, untestable things?

But to answer your question: I'm actively involved in local measures to limit sprawl, reduce consumption, and promote sustainable energy use. I have worked with several organizations to preserve green space, wetlands, and to build better and safer roads for bicycles. I lobbied to keep an incinerator from being built, and we won.

I'm doing something about real-world problems. What's your plan?
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TooStoned...

Postby dragon » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:32 pm

Actually, TooStoned, reducing your carbon footprint is a good idea. But, it's not the only positive thing you can do.

As for your death force tower, send me your address and I'll send you a couple of mud balls and some ash to make your own.

captaindragonfarstar@yahoo.com if you don't want it blurbed all over the internet.

As for the guilt trip about our work being heavily dependent on the industrial and petrochemical processes, I'm not going down that road. If the guilt grabs you all that forcefully, then you can reduce your input and dependency on it by not using the electricity it takes to run your computer and get on this board.

Do you eat? Do you drive? Do you keep your house warm?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Telexx: you are making sense. That's why he's getting edgy. Magick is, simply put, the manipulation of energy; either your own or that found in nature. Nature here being a term used in its most liberal sense, to include energy from another being. Magick? An outcome determined by the force of will. There are a lot of ways to describe it.

And as for complementary medicine, yes, it works. But it may not work so well on someone who is convinced that it does not work. Because, you see, there is a mental factor involved in all diseases. Treating a disease is not as simple as changing out a spark plug.

Dragon
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Postby philipacentaur » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:35 pm

Now, what's this about Al Bielek? I have watched hours of his lectures on video tape, and he didn't drool once. He's a vampire? Where's Buffy?


Hours? I don't know if I can stand that much, but I've seen, heard and read enough to know that it's not worth my time. No drooling? Maybe he didn't see anything in the audience that struck his fancy. Yes, he's a vampire. You do understand myth and symbolism, don't you?

As for Phil Schneider, he's dead, so there's another martyr for nonsense and chaos. Tell me what he supplied.

Look. If it was easy, we'd get little girls to do it.


Uhhh... Yeah. I'll bet.
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OH Lardy!

Postby TooStoned » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:36 pm

Telexx:

In my understanding historically "magick" refers to ritualwas a term associated with Crowley and the various subsets of O.T.O. ritual, IIRC, and its been 20 years or so since I bothered to read that perv, Crowley stated that accumlulating "prana" was neccesary to do Magick but did not conflate the two terms. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't think so.

If you want to expand the definition to include "vital force" that's fine just realize that mushy in/mushy out.


On Chi and acupuncture I don't care if there are overly reductionist skeptic doctors, Isurance carriers pay for it (if you got the good stuff) and its effects can be demonstrated (sore back alleviation, headache, etc) this cloud buster shyte probably can't be but I, like Thomas, want proof one way or the other...

Dragon-

You sure can sling the blyther (whatever you want us to call it) but what about my challenge.
What about my death towers (see links above)? They are on every mile of Interstate -19 between Nogales and Green Valley. You don't even have to meet me, just "take out" one (for the data spiders I am not advocating anything but littering for this experiment, I'm sure Wi-Vod and ROAM-AD, HSD would be interested anyways) and tell me where it is.

Your Verde Valley up north on I-17 is part of the Canamex Corridor and will be getting these towers soon so you better make sure your epoxy death litter works, doncha' think?

Come on Dragon, try replying to what I say instead of your New Age polyester Strawmen...
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, no one but ourselves can free our minds" - RNM
"I'm not Coyote.You're Coyote. I'm Another One." - Wile E. Coyote (AKA Sin'klipt)
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Postby f.n.disinfo.agent » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:58 pm

"But, if you understand quantum physics, and non-locality, then it all makes perfect sense."-- Dragon, ninja-killing underground-alien-base destroying extraordinaire

"In my gut, in my belly, do I feel like I have a deep, intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics...no."
--Dr. Edward Farhi, Professor of Physics, MIT; Director, Center for Theoretical Physics, MIT

Edward Farhi was trained as a theoretical particle physicist but has also worked on astrophysics, general relativity, and the foundations of quantum mechanics. His present interest is the theory of quantum computation.

http://web.mit.edu/physics/facultyandst ... farhi.html


I thought I was done commenting here, but I lose it over lines like "I understand quantum physics"...btw its hilarious how you continually dive for scientific justifications for what you're doing yet backpedal as soon as a simple request for scientific evidence is presented...

And to be honest, i was quite open to what you and your crew were/are doing in my first comment on this thread, but your continual mental contortions lost me...my loss, i guess.

(edited to italicize)
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Postby Telexx » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:30 pm

In my understanding historically "magick" refers to ritualwas a term associated with Crowley and the various subsets of O.T.O. ritual, IIRC, and its been 20 years or so since I bothered to read that perv, Crowley stated that accumlulating "prana" was neccesary to do Magick but did not conflate the two terms. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't think so.

If you want to expand the definition to include "vital force" that's fine just realize that mushy in/mushy out.


I made no such conflation. I think the word magick has modern, umbrella-term sense these days, but I didn't actually invoke that. Again: "I think those machines have more to do with magick than science." By this I simlpy mean in the way Radionics are supposed to "work". They work in ways related more to magick than science; I think you just misunderstood me tbh.

On Chi and acupuncture I don't care if there are overly reductionist skeptic doctors, Isurance carriers pay for it (if you got the good stuff) and its effects can be demonstrated (sore back alleviation, headache, etc) this cloud buster shyte probably can't be but I, like Thomas, want proof one way or the other...


Well I'm not talking 'overly reductionist skeptic doctors' I'm talking about proof using science (my original point, that provoked your scorn): "the 'cause' in magick isn't recognised by science, so how can you measure the effect, truly?"

So, choosing an example where I do actually conflate Chi & Magick (just to prove my point, you understand) you can see how it's difficult scientifically for acupuncture to be moved beyond 'complementary' therapy. (It's my assertion that insurance is as much a dark art as it is a science lol).

It's just simple logic - if there is no 'cause' causing the effect, there is no recognisable effect, just flux or whatever. Statistics don't count so much, it seems, as debate rages over acupuncture & other complementary therapies. You can quite easily substitute 'acupuncture' for 'radionics' and output the same conclusions; not mushy at all old son you just read too quickly ;-)

Thanks,

Telexx
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Postby Telexx » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:41 pm

I thought I was done commenting here, but I lose it over lines like "I understand quantum physics"...


I agree with f.n. 100% - to say you understand quantum physics is not the foundation from which to build a persuasive argument. How can you? I imagine all posters here are what mathematicians would call 'non-technical'...

Thanks,

Telexx
Last edited by Telexx on Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nit picking

Postby TooStoned » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:42 pm

magick has modern, umbrella-term sense

OK, but at I believe facility comes at the cost of precision, a price that I'm not willing to pay, personally. But you are, and that's ok by me, and is another data point for me to calibrate your posts with.

BTW I'm not down with all the modern habits of language (but yo! colloquialism has its uses ) :lol:

Statistics don't count so much, it seems, as debate rages over acupuncture & other complementary therapies

Statistics do count, and Insurers pay because the stats have an accurate enough Confidence Interval to make cents!

I understand that there is a differnce between the unkown and the unknowable, and both are integral to existence, but Dragon make claims that could move into the unkown or even known realms, but choses rather to regale us with what appears to be un-real fiction.
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Postby Telexx » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:53 pm

magick has modern, umbrella-term sense

OK, but at I believe facility comes at the cost of precision, a price that I'm not willing to pay, personally. But you are, and that's ok by me, and is another data point for me to calibrate your posts with.


Tsk, tsk... Misquoting by ommission is pretty lame response. I imagine your posts shall also be calibrated accordingly ;-)

Thanks,

Telexx
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Calibrate away

Postby TooStoned » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:58 pm

and build a strawmen, too

:P

BS is BS

And chips fall where they may... :roll:
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The pwer of the placebo

Postby Trifecta » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:43 pm

From my two years of working with orgone people, making creations out of various organic and inorganic materials and reading everything I could get my hands on, I have come to the conviction that orgone creations and the makers create a reality that effects environments. I cannot however, get passed, through or via the power of these creations as a placebo.

I say this becuase my mind cannot get passed the simplicity of what goes into making these things, but they do have an energy signature, which you can feel, sometimes see and they do manifest teh strangest of outcomes.

Dragon believes in the power of these mud balls, fair play to him, I do not, thusly they would have no power for me or my acts. I do not buy a lot of the bullshit that floats around as fact within the orgone movement, here is an example.

A big push over the last 18 months with the Croftian orgone community (I say community, but it is as fractured as most diverse thinking groups) is gifting the seas, mainly due to underground transmitters, [purported to be the reason for mass die offs, or partly responsible) and major ocean frequency fences. See the Croftian movement are now communicating with Dolphins, the Dolphins are alledgedly taking orgone creations and placing them in deep waters, where the average Joe has no chance of going...I don't but this bullshit, but actually it is my own personal mind set that negates the possibility of this being true.

I say this becuase I do not have any problem or any doubt that birds do work with you while gifting ( spreading orgone creations) it is really uncanny, it took me a long, long time to except this as fact, and yet I cannot be empowered by the possibility that Dolphoins also aid the planting of gifts... this is my problem.

So, if Dragon Al is empowered by it, the placebo effect is strong, this man could likely do anything he set his mind to. Who are we to judge, especially if we have not tried it out for ourselves.

We, none of us fully understand the power of our own minds, let alone combinations of other things that may aid and abet it. Words are most definately things. The life force is not something we can comfortably put into a box of our own comfort zones.

Call me and Dragon mad men, but we are at least empwering ourselves to attempt at doing something, other than the futility of hoping man would links arms and rid the world of entropy, greed and outright genocide, to name a few of the things that stink this planet up.

The mind sciences will catch up to this and many other thought, action paradigms as the models of the universe we inhabit wake up. You can get on the playing field now, you only have to give it a try, otherwise you who have no experience of it are just pissing in the wind.
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