Famous Shriners...some disheartening

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:26 am

<a href="http://www.shriners.bc.ca/shriners/index.shtml">www.shriners.bc.ca/shriners/index.shtml</a> Shriners that depress me: Johnny Cash Carl Perkins Kristofferson, Kris (who was also a Rhodes Scholar?) Mel Blanc and Friz Freleng Irving Berlin Nat King Cole Count Basie Duke Ellington Bud Abbott Ernest Borgnine Charlie Finley (baseball owner) Thurgood Marshall Michael Richards (i.e. Kramer...I knew there was something wrong with him! He's the most humorless asshole when not in character.) Frank Stallone (Sly's brother...also a Scientologist?) Tris Speaker and Cy Young (I'm a Red Sox fan) So, just as a reminder...Shriner = Freemason. Weird mix of comedian/entertainers and the highest elite. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fourthbase>FourthBase</A> at: 12/5/05 3:34 am

by **steve vegas** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:27 am

What's the deal with the damn shriners? Are they bad simply because they are the weird, creepy, clown-makeup wearing, little kid hanging out with type of masons, (yes that's weird enough for me) or are they particularly bad for a certain reason I should know about, please illuminate...just point me in a direction if this has already been covered (please)...though it's sure to keep me awake tonight. Also any thoughts about this slightly creepy fellow <a href="http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf/vw-dynamic-arrays/85256DDC007274DF80256B8000379CA0?openDocument">Joe the Turk</a>? I just learned about him last week after going the S.A. website after a friend was telling me how a friend of his had grown up "Salvation Army". I had no idea what this meant (still don't), anway found this slightly spooky photo of this interesting individual when I went to learn more:   <img src="http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf/50f73564cddae39480256cf4005d2262/85256ddc007274df80256b8000379ca0/Body/0.166" style="border:0;"/> Isn't that the shriner emblem on his fez? Or is that emblem some other sort of emblem adopted by the shriners? I've just read the history of the emblem on the shriners site that you linked to, can't really tell if the emblems match. Any connection between the S.A. and the Shriners? Bummer about Michael Richards...I hope the taint doesn't reach to Larry David.

by **steve vegas** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:33 am

And this... <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The symbolic explanation of the crescent is: The scimitar represents the 500,000 Shriners who are the backbone of the Shrine. The two claws represent the two divisions of the Shrine, the fraternity, the Shrine of North America and the charity, Shriners Hospitals for Children, joined in the middle by the head of a sphinx which is representative of the Imperial Council of the Shrine of North America, the governing body of the Shrine. The ruby star that hangs between the claws represents the stars of the Shrine, the thousand’s of children we assist every year.<hr></blockquote> Oh I'm sure that's the complete <a href="http://www.shriners.bc.ca/emblem.shtml">symbolic explanation</a> of that bad boy.

by **cortez** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:42 am

Kris Kristofferson a Rhodes scholar- Shriner? He was always one of the weird names for me to swallow from reading Trance Formation of America, interesting. This is just a random search, the two may have nothing to do with another "..One of the weirdest musical episodes described in The Men Who Stare At Goats concerns a detainee at Guantanamo Bay. Jamal al-Harith is a British website designer who was arrested by US troops in Afghanistan shortly after 9/11 and ended up in Guantanamo Bay for two years, before being released for lack of any evidence against him. In the course of being interrogated, Jamal was seated in a vacant room with a boombox. Occasionally a military intelligence officer entered with a CD and said "Here's a great girl band doing Fleetwood Mac songs." The CD would play, and when it ended, the officer would come back into the room and say "You might like this," and put on a Kris Kristofferson record. Then Matchbox Twenty. Ronson makes the case that the music Jamal was forced to listen to was embedded with subliminal messages encouraging him to spill all his Al Qaeda secrets..." <a href="http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/05/tunes_for_tortu.html">blog.wfmu.org/freeform/20...tortu.html</a>

by **robertdreed** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:55 am

Who turned Michael Richards on to Freemasonry? Red Skelton. Quake in your boots. If you think that's something, consider that George McGovern is a 33 degree Mason. <a href="http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep02/uzzel.htm">www.srmason-sj.org/web/jo.../uzzel.htm</a> I've heard that Jimmy Carter is a Mason- 33rd degree, in fact- but not according to this link <a href="http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep03/tribe.htm">www.srmason-sj.org/web/jo.../tribe.htm</a> Honestly, this is the sort of "conspiracy research" that gives the study a bad name...it's just silly to play "gotcha" with people simply because they hold membership in a Masonic Lodge, and get granted the 32nd Degree in the Scottish Rite. There's a more intellectually disciplined viewpoint available that's skeptical of Freemasonry, meanwhile recognizing that most of the members are getting something out of the Craft that's entirely different than those who seek to exploit its prestige, secrecy- and most of all, its encouragement of a priori fraternal courtesies and quid pro quo benefits, even among relative strangers- for political gain, purposes of criminal conspiracy, or even radical evil. Masonry is weird...in some localities it sort of works as the "eyes and ears" of a community, an informal network without formal governmental power that's nonetheless influential. It isn't necessarily malevolent, it's capable of extending protection to non-Masons as well as members. How it works in that regard depends on the character of the local rank and file membership, more than anything else. I'm not sure how I feel about that...there it is. I have enough personal reservations about things like the oath of secrecy and the patriarchal-hierarchical character of the organization that I'm not looking to join, although I'm intrigued by it. But, believe it or not, most people who join the Masons do so out of benevolence, as good people wanting to be part of a benevolent fraternity. Good people are good people to know, Masons or not. Whether, in balance, secret fraternities like the Masons are a good idea or not is a question I can't answer. Even though they've been somewhat in decline in the USA since their historic height in the 1920s, they're still entrenched as an institution in many places. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/5/05 5:32 am

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:56 am

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kristofferson">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kristofferson</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Although born in Brownsville, Texas, he moved around much as a youth, finally settling down in San Mateo, California, where he graduated high school. An aspiring writer, Kristofferson earned a Rhodes Scholarship to the Oxford University (Merton College, Oxford) after previously attending Pomona College. While in England, Kristofferson began writing songs and working with his manager Larry Parnes; he recorded for Top Rank Records under the name Kris Carson, but was unsuccessful. In 1960, Kristofferson graduated with a master's degree in English literature and married an old girlfriend, Fran Beir. He joined the United States Army and became a helicopter pilot. During the early 1960s, he was stationed in West Germany and returned to music and forming a band. Kristofferson sent some of his compositions to a friend's relative, Marijohn Wilkin, a successful Nashville, Tennessee songwriter.<hr></blockquote> Not sure when he became a Master Mason/Shriner. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>In 1985, Kristoferson starred in Trouble in Mind and released Repossessed a politically aware album that was a country success, particularly "They Killed Him" (also performed by Bob Dylan), a tribute to his heroes, including Martin Luther King, Jr., Jesus, and Mohandas Gandhi. Kristofferson also appeared in Amerika at about the same time; the mini-series was controversial, hypothesizing life under Communist domination.<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fourthbase>FourthBase</A> at: 12/5/05 5:00 am

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:43 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Honestly, this is the sort of "conspiracy research" that gives the study a bad name...it's just silly to play "gotcha"<hr></blockquote> How can you say that... And then say you don't know how you feel? I'm not doing "research"...I'm posting a list. I know how I feel about Masons...they creep me the fuck out. All of them. So the "gotcha" isn't "you're evil". It's "you're creepy...and you might be evil." It's a personal feeling, I'm sure others share it. It's not "research", I'm not making any claims. Sure some people join out of benevolence, maybe most. And good people are good to know...but do they stay good? All I really know is: the Shriners in particular are the most debauched group of men my best friend (who worked at one of their functions, and had seen a lot of debauchery) had ever seen. And that's when a few non-Shriner eyes were on them.

by **robertdreed** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:04 am

"How can you say that... And then say you don't know how you feel?" Because I know for a fact that there a quite a lot of good people who are Masons. I mean, Duke Ellington, come on... Yet the institution itself seems to me to be rife with possibilities for abuse. But if a given local lodge doesn't misuse the power of being a hidden fraternity, it can use its powers for good. But that is subject to change over time, depending on the membership and the leadership...so I don't know how I feel about it. I don't know enough to, say, want to outlaw them. But I think public access to the complete membership list is a good idea. You know nowadays, the new members all get the lecture about what happened with the P2 Lodge, and all that- at least they do in Sacramento...I still think it's more than a little naive to think that nothing like that can happen again. "I know how I feel about Masons...they creep me the fuck out. All of them....It's not "research", I'm not making any claims." Oh, is that right? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/5/05 6:16 am

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:18 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Because I know for a fact that there a quite a lot of good people who are Masons.<hr></blockquote> That's all well and good, I'm sure there are good Masons. But they probably have no idea what the bad ones do. Just like I'm sure there are good Scientologists. Who have no clue what their "church" is really about. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>But if a given lodge doesn't misuse the power of being a hidden fraternity, it can use its powers for good.<hr></blockquote> So it's the reverse of the rotten apple? A good one here and there redeems a rotten tree? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I don't know enough to, say, want to outlaw them. But I think public access to the complete membership list would be a good idea.<hr></blockquote> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Great idea, but fat chance. I agree that attacking secrecy is crucial. How about outlawing the oath of secrecy? Forbidding anyone who's taken that oath from public office? Requiring all signals and symbols to be published? Fines for signals used in courtrooms, etc.?

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:20 am

So is it you or someone related, RDR?

by **robertdreed** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:33 pm

No, I am not a Freemason. And neither is my dad. My maternal grandfather, deceased for several years now, is the closest relative of whom I'm aware who is, or was, a Mason- and, yes, a Shriner. I'm fairly sure that Harry Anslinger was one of his local Lodge brothers. We weren't that close, for what it's worth. Does premature certainty ever irk anyone else on this board? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/5/05 12:35 pm

by **hanshan** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:34 pm

Indeed, robert. <img src="http://hyperreal.org/raves/database/gallery/images_temp/dreamscape04_29may92_a.jpg" style="border:0;"/> The dialogue/dynamics of certainty <img src="http://www.geocities.com/meister_z/alice15b.gif" style="border:0;"/> ....

by **FourthBase** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:43 pm

Tomato, To-MAH-to. I understand myself to be one of the "intuitive" people on this site, and you to be one of the "rigorous", and I think we can all complement each other.

by **slimmouse** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:02 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>That's all well and good, I'm sure there are good Masons. But they probably have no idea what the bad ones do.<hr></blockquote> Hit the nail slap bang on the head there 4th base. I would suggest that probably at least 98% of these guys have no Idea what the real deal is, although many of them will doubtless have cause to suspect something just aint quite right here. Most of them are most likely gofers, who suddenly land in the right kinda position for no apparent reason ( except with hindsight to them ) - Like " Why did I get that job, when x,y and z were better qualified/equipped/ experienced ?" By which time of course, theyre already comfortably seated on the gravy train courtesy of their "Apron" ticket. Better not lose that ! Cos remember ,Its a miserable experience in economy seats after youve been in the ring seats.

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:37 am

We're in more agreement than it may seem around here, on this topic. Even though I think that most of the rank and file are good folk, who get involved with the organization for motives that are benign or even altruistic, I have serious reservations about Masonry as an institution. In a beehive, how many worker bees know what the queen and her court are up to? When it's time to "swarm", how many are left behind? Most hierarchical institutions work the same way, of course- in government, the military, the intelligence services, corporations, etc. The less transparency, the more potential for abuse...what does that axiom mean, for a "society with secrets"? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/6/05 9:03 am

Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Re: Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Re: Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Re: Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Re: Famous Shriners

Kris Kristofferson - yup, Rhodes scholar

Re: Famous Shriners

Re: Famous Shriners

What to feel about Masons?

Re: Famous Shriners

I'll waive my 5th amendment right here and respond...

re: 5ths/3rds/....

Premature certainty, Intuition...

Re: What to feel about Masons?

Masonry

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