JFK/RFK disinfo season: Funny assassin movie-You Kill Me

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

HMW, the record shows that time after time, when challenged on specific claims that you've made, you've been unable to provide an orderly chain of events illustrating how the subliminal manipulations that you allege in a given instance might have been accomplished via a consciously directed, organized plot.

I have shown that it has been done many times. You want names and time sheets and contract numbers?

It is a documented fact that during WWII the Office of War Information wrote Hollywood scripts to obtain desired effects on audiences both foreign and domestic.
Thus it is possible and even more so after sixty-five years of developing a system of culture-wide psy-ops.
Agreed?

Newbies, lurkers, readers- check the record.

And, for that matter, if you're one of Hugh's defenders, perhaps you'll contribute your own personal set of logical deductions and provide a chain of evidence documenting how and why it is that you agree with him in regard to one or more of the examples that he alleges.

I'd be glad to see others' views on this, maybe even results of research as I've found.

It's all right to speculate about the way that the orders get carried out down the line in order to accomplish the alleged goals, but do it using specifics, not generalities.

Hold on. How much specifics on covert ops and multi-layered front groups do you require to admit such things are done?

I've provided specifics like the Robin Moore's close ties to CIA and track record writing CIA novels-turned-into movies, for instance. Plus the OWI history.

How many names of journos in Operation Mockingbird do you require to admit it is real and make a strong hypothesis on who is in it based on the organization they are in?
Is Bob Woodward example enough? Or is this too "general?"

Account for such matters as the motivations of all of the players needed to accomplish the schemes that HMW recurrently alleges, the challenges of timing such schemes, provide a rough estimate of the cost in labor (especially in person-hours) from planning to execution, etc.

A system of front groups consisting of mostly unaware-of-what-they-are-doing is standard operating procedure for covert ops. "Motivations of all the players?" Oh, brother. Well, few know the purpose and call the shots on what scripts are put in produciton, final say on details like title, and timing of release and distribution. Right?
Right. This is the situation within CIA itself according to veteran whistleblowers like John Stockwell and L. Fletcher Prouty.

Next.

Finally, demonstrate how continually plotting such elaborate schemes could be demonstrably more perniciously effective as a method of distracting the American public than, say, simply making re-runs of Gilligan's Island available for re-viewing on the telescreen...so much more perniciously effective, as it were, that the benefits justify your roughly enumerated estimate of the costs.

At the production level these media products are PROFITABLE. Thus the psy-ops is self-financing (just like OTHER DRUGS) which serves as motivation for the front groups (anyone not in on the psy-ops goal) and is reinvested in yet more psy-ops.

And as to effectiveness, it is precisely because Americans are watching TV and movies that they don't know what is really going on and are indoctrinated, conditioned, desensitized, etc. in the manner desired by the PTB.

41% think that Saddam did 9/11. Mission accomplished thanks to TV and movies.

Thanks for helping support my message, rdr.
You really helped clarify how the massive psy-ops industry works by mostly thinking it is commerce, entertainment, and art.

That's the sort of detail that HMW's skeptics- including myself- have repeatedly requested, and what he's repeatedly ducked out on providing.

No, I've made precisely the points I made above before.

People at the top of the very high-finance food chain in entertainment are making the decisions, perhaps even being coerced by reps of the USG if not willingly complicit.
Karl Rove held a Hollywood pow-wow after 9/11, didn't he?

And what I have found from doing "honest research," is that actors and even directors who get guaranteed eyeballs keep ending up in psy-ops scripts. Logical.

And the number of scripts that are psy-ops has gone up first during the Total War doctrine Cold War and then again to match need after the social instabilities of the Vietnam War era and then again post-9/11. Logical.

WWII-
Office of War Information takes over Hollywood.
Pentagon takes over Disney.

Korea and on-
Blacklisting of leftists in Hollywood.
Disney works covertly
Operation Mockingbird starts singing.

Reagan and on-
Newsrooms purged
Equal Time Rule ended
CIA FOIA exemption
USG secrecy oaths
mega-mergers
Cable TV
VHS
The re-occupation through pre-occupation of America is accomplished.

And all the contradictory bs that ProfPan has slung which I enumerated has done his 'argument' no good at all. Although I'm sure he'll sling some more in reply.

[Crow]

I find the concept of keyword hijacking unique and original. On some level, there is probably something to it. The Camelot one is interesting; posthumously attaching that label to the Kennedy presidency, as was done, brings up Arthurian mythos, the ritual killing of kings, and perhaps a too-easy sense of inevitability.

I personally don't find many of Hugh's specific examples convincing at all, but I do admire his formulation of what seems to be a novel concept.

But I don't think one needs to view Hollywood propaganda-making at Hugh's sometimes-absurd level of granularity to see it in action. The continual churning out of "greatest generation" WWII-themed movies has always felt like a thinly-veiled call to arms for The War on Terror. (I have often wondered if the release of the movie "Pearl Harbor" in summer 2001 was a conscious preparation for September 11 or a natural prediction arising from the collective unconscious; I know I can't be the only one to have had that thought cross her mind.)

See also the multitude of first-person shooter and military video games set in suspiciously Iraqi-looking countries that might as well be training programs for the military. This stuff is very out in the open and easy to spot, and it's the stuff we should be crying foul over. These are the really big crimes, and they are being committed on our most vulnerable, gullible, and politically naive.

There is subtler stuff out there, too, but its provenance is much harder to pin down. I remember seeing an episode of "Judging Amy" (it was a random television collision) where two of the characters stepped outside for a walk on an unseasonably warm fall day. Appreciating the weather, one of them said something like, "Oh, thank goodness for global warming." It was woven very naturally into the dialogue. It gave me chills. No pun intended. I'm not sure why that line was in there, but it did seem oddly purposeful. But did the CIA do it or some idiotic overworked scriptwriter who thinks that global warming will help his tan?

One of the biggest errors by conspiracy theorists (and this is my original concept to contribute to the discussion) is the presumption that there is anyone behind the wheel of this great machine. There doesn't need to be any conscious control of the Leviathan in order for it to exist and, in a way, have a mind of its own.

[robert d reed]

Crow, the level of status quo-mongering that you're discussing, I can buy (or perhaps I could even say "we"- the RI denizens who have evinced skepticism of HMWs claims- can buy, since people like orz and profpan have also acknowledged that sort of validity repeatedly, in the course of their challenges to HMW.)

As a concept, it's hardly original with HMW. Karl Marx identified it in some of his more cogent writings, and termed it "mystification"- the process by which the most wealthy and powerful in a given society seek and strive to get the wider channels of culture and communications media to act as their echo chamber, and to give assent to the primacy of their values- generally with a marked degree of success (although never quite total success- at some point, "resistance" and the "powers of the weak" always seem to kick into gear, occasionally with devastating effectiveness.)

But that isn't what HMW is postulating. He's postulating a covert totalitarian regime of micro-managed media control, fine-tuned to pervasively channel peoples thoughts at "subconscious" levels, with an overwhelming rate of success.

As I skeptic, I think that's a meritless claim. Notwithstanding that, it's taken up an enormous amount of space on the RI board- to the point where I've wearied of the debate several times previously in different threads that seem to always return to the same matters of contention, and simply dropped out rather than reiterate my contribution.

Read Marx. Read Guy DeBord. You'll realize that other thinkers pre-dated many (although by no means all) of the tenets of the Keyword Hijacking Revelation of Hugh Manatee Wins.

There are other philosophical antecedents for HMW's thinking on the phenomenon he's alleging- like the "Marxist Freudian" Herbert Marcuse, with his concepts of "repressive tolerance", etc. For the most part, I find Marcuse's thought spurious- although not nearly as spurious as the plots necessary in order to validate HMW's ideas, which would have to assume tectonic proportions in order to work as pervasively and reliably as he asserts.

Actually, I find HMWs views on his particular conjured bete noir to be most akin to the ideas of Wilson Bryan Key, the 1970s-era proponent of the concept of "subliminal seduction", and author of the book by the same name.

Re: Wilson Bryan Key- my views on his ideas roughly coincide with those of Cecil Adams, of the popular weekly newspaper column Straight Dope.

thass all I'm saying', for now...

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

I have shown that it has been done many times. You want names and time sheets and contract numbers?

Done. Here are 1953 documents, letters from a CIA Hollywood asset Luigi Luraschi back to his bosses in the Psychological Strategy Board.

http://www.iamhist.org/journal/eldridge.pdf

And this is just the beginning 55 years ago of CIA disinfotainment which is now a hugely profitable self-sustaining and self-referential pictographic cultural language used for mind control.

Details about the 'placement of negroes' and even using Jimmy Stewart in a movie about the Air Force and atom bombs precisely as I pointed out when I noted the keyword hijacking of 'Broken Arrow' made into a western to hide the code name for a nuclear weapons accident.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

As a concept, it's hardly original with HMW.
..............

But that isn't what HMW is postulating. He's postulating a covert totalitarian regime of micro-managed media control, fine-tuned to pervasively channel peoples thoughts at "subconscious" levels, with an overwhelming rate of success.

The concept of elite culture control is old old old.
How it is done since WWII is what I'm bringing to the table.

The "rate of success" varies from time to time but little boys and girls are wearing camo and teens are still signing up to get kill-or-be-killed in an oil occupation while thinking that Saddam did 9/11 and while praying God Bless America.

rdr: " a covert totalitarian regime of micro-managed media control, fine-tuned to pervasively channel peoples thoughts at "subconscious" levels"

HELL YES.

[professorpan]

Done. Here are 1953 documents, letters from a CIA Hollywood asset Luigi Luraschi back to his bosses in the Psychological Strategy Board.

Do you even read the stuff you post?

From the document:

[quote]However, in misattributing the reports to Carleton Alsop, Saunders’ evaluation of them is fundamentally flawed and her estimation of the CIA’s in

[kristinerosemary]

good lord.
dear boys,
it's summer, go outside and get some fresh air.
hugh is right. about everything. waiting for the proof fairies
to appear? don't realize that the chain of evidence is just
another term for chain of fools? go to the beach and have
some fun. hugh studied this. he knows what he's writing
about. of course maybe it amuses him to engage with
you. it's not so amusing to read the endless contradictions.
someone tell a joke please.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Ole Matey at work: Did you hear that a Hollywood acress got murdered.

Me: No.

OMaW: Yeah the other day, whats her name? Rene something.

Me: Oh Rene Witherspoon?

OMaW: No with a knife actually.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Enough of the knee-jerk contrarians. I am doing much more research.

Just using keyword hijacking to look at Robert Redford movies I was able to find:

>the CIA's murder of Che Guevara
>the novel which was like a script for the SLA kidnapping of Patty Hearst two years before it happened
>the 1974 novel 'Six Days of the Condor' that mirrored that Patty Hearst mirror (!)
>Operation Condor which was a CIA-backed version of Operation Phoenix in South America and included the 1973 coup in Chile.
>the use of Nixon's DEA plan to knock off drug kingpins as cover for Condor
>the use of CIA assassin Lucien Conein in Condor and Dealey Plaza
...and more.

All that was from decoding Robert Redford's movies with KH.

[kristinerosemary]

thanks joe. we needed a joke in here.

hugh, good examples. there are so many in nearly every
american movie. i am now even starting to notice them in
japanese movies. wait till you see 'dead or alive' the
final episode. where the replicants are called leprekon-do.

[orz]

just using keyword hijacking to look at Robert Redford movies I was able to find:

Says. It. All.

This is worse than the bible code...

and kristinerosemary, if you seriously think that Miike bleeping Takeshi is working for the CIA then you're even more of a mean-spirited anti-creativity nut than Hugh.

[robert d reed]

yes yes, three days of the loup-er-con-do'...

[kristinerosemary]

hi there orz

glad to see another DOA fan on here.

nope, even tho i slacked off a long time
to earn my anti creativity meanspirit cred,
i dont think takashi-san work for any intel
at all. is just that once you start seeing
double meanings in random places, you
start seeing them everywhere. hard to
explain.

[robert d reed]

You think that the potential for the generation of plural meanings stops after merely doubling?

[orz]

at all. is just that once you start seeing
double meanings in random places, you
start seeing them everywhere. hard to
explain.

Haha ok, sorry. Yeah that's true...

Haven't actually seen the last DOA yet, I must! The beginning and ending of the first one are totally insane! And I was surprised by the second, a much more conventionally 'good' film!