How the Counterculture Ushered in Fascism

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Postby Jeff » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:15 pm

Uncle $cam wrote:I apologize. Again it was never my intention to offend anyone...


I apologize for sounding harsh. My words were reserved for the site in general, which espouses a religious-political philosophy at odds with my intentions for RI. (See for instance their page on neo-Nazi occultist David Myatt, whom I wrote about here, whom they praise as a "National Socialist extraordinaire" and "a truly noble soul on the Path.")

I just ask that everyone use discernment regarding sources.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:24 pm

Uncle $cam likes to post inflammatory articles from questionable sources.
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Postby Uncle $cam » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:38 pm

Uncle $cam likes to post inflammatory articles from questionable sources.


Ahh, can you rewrite that in e-prime tkl? Are are you just going by this and my last post?
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Power chords.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:41 pm

John E. Nemo wrote:There is definitely some Nazi fetishism within the electro/industrial scene.


Fascination with POWER is one of the 14 Traits of Fascism.
Rock'n'roll, once thought of as sexy and then as love and peace ala Woodstock, has been partly co-opted for its culture of aggression to counterbalance the dangerous tendency towards harmony.

Someone told me about going to a recent OzFest event and was horrified by all the videos of violence and emphasis on cruelty and callousness.

Rock on, Darth.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:43 pm

Uncle $cam wrote:Ahh, can you rewrite that in e-prime tkl? Are are you just going by this and my last post?


Yeah, I was. Sorry for the attitude. I'm glad you have a sense of humor!

Or: It appears to this observer at this time from this inertial frame that the figment supposedly behind the text on this computer screen who posts under the title "uncle $cam" employs a sense of humor in interacting with other figments in the medium of internet text communication.
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Sparing the messenger.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:54 pm

Jeff wrote:I apologize for sounding harsh. My words were reserved for the site in general, which espouses a religious-political philosophy at odds with my intentions for RI.


I have the same harsh reaction that some take personally (AttackShipsonFire) to alien abudctee narratives due to the Nazi atrocities I've read first-accounts of in Dr. Mack's and Dr. Jacob's books.

DreamsEnd went off on me with both barrels over a Larouche article I innocently posted for the same reason Uncle $cam did, to get comments from others.
I didn't expect a comment like "don't you dare bring that crap here!"

It might be interesting to have a forum where villains and heros and tweens are listed for others to reference, a kind of parapolitical mugshot wiki of friend and foe.

Then some wheels wouldn't have to be reinvented from scratch because I'm weary of telling people that American Free Press, Truthseeker.co.uk, and Christopher Bollyn are all anti-semitic sources as newbies latch on to them for the first time.
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Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:01 pm

You guys need to chill out and listen to some Doobie Brothers.

We can thank their guitarist for his work on the committee that brought us this.
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D.U. bee brothers.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:16 pm

stickdog99 wrote:You guys need to chill out and listen to some Doobie Brothers.

We can thank their guitarist for his work on the committee that brought us this.


HA. Excellent citation, stickdog99.
Jeff 'Skunk (works)' Baxter and the Pentagon, sittin' in a tree...

Mr. Weldon says he immediately realized that Mr. Baxter could be a useful public advocate for missile defense because his rock-star pedigree would attract attention to the issue.

"Most of Hollywood is from the liberal, 'let's hug the tree and be warm and fuzzy and sing Kumbaya,' bent," Mr. Weldon says. "You put Jeff Baxter up against them, and he cleans their clocks because he actually knows the facts and details." He has appeared in public debates and given numerous press and TV interviews on CNN and Fox News advocating missile defense. He also served as a national spokesman for Americans for Missile Defense, a coalition of conservative organizations devoted to the issue.

Mr. Baxter, backed by several lawmakers, got a series of classified security clearances. During one background interview, Mr. Baxter says, he was asked whether he could be bribed with money or drugs. He recalls telling the investigators not to worry because he had already "been there, done that, and given away the T-shirt" during his rock career.

His old friend Mr. Weldon chaired the House Military Research and Development Subcommittee, and in 1995 nominated Mr. Baxter to chair the Civilian Advisory Board for Ballistic Missile Defense, a congressional panel.

The missile-defense post led to consulting contracts with the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. The Pentagon also began regularly asking Mr. Baxter to lead enemy forces in war games, where he quickly earned a reputation for using creative, terrorist-style tactics. "I'm told I make a very good bad guy," he says.
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Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:19 pm

Genesis P. is a fascist?

News to me, him/her, and anyone that knows shit about shit.

However, there was a lot of interesting linkage in this thread, and the Gnostic Liberation Front sound like they'd be fun to drink with.
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When the Lie's So Big.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:24 pm

Frank Zappa probably did more to rock against fascism than most.

He outed the US-Nazi connection on his albums regularly and was revered enough in Europe to have inspired the revolution in Czechoslovakia that brought poet Vaclav Havel to power.

I've been in music clubs in Germany that have 8"x12" publicity photos covering the walls but a life-size poster of Zappa. Size matters.
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Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:30 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:Uncle $cam likes to post inflammatory articles from questionable sources.


...and? I fucking love him for exactly that. Diversity is what makes this place the Temple of Kick-Ass that it is.
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Re: Power chords.

Postby John E. Nemo » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:39 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
John E. Nemo wrote:There is definitely some Nazi fetishism within the electro/industrial scene.


Fascination with POWER is one of the 14 Traits of Fascism.
Rock'n'roll, once thought of as sexy and then as love and peace ala Woodstock, has been partly co-opted for its culture of aggression to counterbalance the dangerous tendency towards harmony.

Someone told me about going to a recent OzFest event and was horrified by all the videos of violence and emphasis on cruelty and callousness.

Rock on, Darth.


Hahaha.
Nice one, and very true.
Some of the bestiality/vivisection films I've seen at Industrial shows were kinda disturbing.

I was friends with a few punks who wore swastikas and liked to dress in Nazi regalia.
I never had any problem with it, because it was just for shock value and some of them were Jewish or Hispanic.

When people started to take it seriously and gangs of Nazi skinheads started beating people up at punk shows, the old punks took Phranc's advice and took off their swastikas, and that was the end of that.

I had a video interview with Seymour Stein and a few industry people from '77, where they were talking about punk and what the future held for it.
A very prescient hippy said that he "saw potential for real Nazism and real violence to come out of the punks mock violence and Nazi gear."
Everyone laughed and dismissed the idea that it could happen.

However, within 10 years, there was real violence and real Nazism at every punk show I went to.

It's still insane to me that Ministry has Nazi skinheads all over this video....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=8

...and that the guys from Ministry said that I was the first person to complain that they were, in my words, "helping recruit more Nazi skinheads by featuring them in the video."
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Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:44 pm

I always figured that industrial/metal artists flirt with Nazi stuff for the same reason they use bar chords and insanely loud distortion: it's easy and it's powerful.

Crank up a Marshall Stack and you can get some serious noise going.

Wear a Swaztika and you can get some serious noise going.

Personally, I find that stupid....and I seldom feel threatened by stupid people.
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Punk Neo-nazis

Postby yathrib » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:54 pm

It seems that the (nazi) skinhead scene evolved pretty organically out of the punk scene in a number of places. I was marginally involved in the early 1980s punk scene in college. By that, I mean that many of my friends and more-than-friends were more deeply involved, and I went to shows and got as punked out as possible without permanently (like the next morning) altering my appearance. It wasn't long before many of the (mostly) younger and (always) stupider among us started affecting swastikas and other Nazi iconography. At first it was a fashion statement and a way to shock one's parents in a hurry, but it wasn't long before they began to express hatred of different social and ethnic groups. As Nemo notes, many of these people were hardly pure Aryans themselves, and actually most of the hatred and violence was directed toward gays. Also, anyone who got in their way while drunk. My boyfriend, for example (a bassist) had his left arm shattered when these goons pushed him off a wall out of (I guess) scientific curiosity. One of the most terrifying individuals in this "movement" was actually a black female. Seriously.
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Re: Power chords.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:03 pm

John E. Nemo wrote:A very prescient hippy said that he "saw potential for real Nazism and real violence to come out of the punks mock violence and Nazi gear."
Everyone laughed and dismissed the idea that it could happen.

However, within 10 years, there was real violence and real Nazism at every punk show I went to.


Thanks, you just named my new band, 'Prescient Hippy.' lol.

That does sound predictable. The spirit of rebellion easily turns to jingoism ala 'Sweet Home Alabama' which hit the FM airwaves with a tribute to segregationist George Wallace in 1974 when the FBI was busy murdering Black Panthers and the New Left.

Vivisection films?! Ouch. Adrenaline junkies need to up their dose. See 'Blackwater.'

I think it is fascinating that the most culturally benevalent band I can think of, The Grateful Dead, used that name and skeleton logos to invoke a kind of historical spirituality of connectedness evoking Egyptian folklore instead of the desensitization to death that the skeleton is used for by all others.

The fascist Yale fraternity, Skull and Bones, was suddenly commonly known as the shared heritage of Bush and Kerry after the 2004 (s)election season.

And, no coincidence, pop culture was then FLOODED with images of skull and bones using Disney's 'Pirates of the Caribbean' and a zillion Hollywood movies as the symbol-hijackers.

Plus there is a concerted effort since Vietnam and especially lately to desensitize Americans to death and suffering, especially kids who might react and go all sixties again.
I think one of the lessons learned by the USG media mind managers during Vietnam war protests was that there was far too great a cognitive dissonance from the safe idealized world view spooks embedded in TV and movies and the fascist system of war and poverty. So they started shifting from John Wayne and White Hats to Dirty Harry and The Godfather. And now 24 and gore galore.

Desensitization works. And blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project.

But the Grateful Dead never evoked the punk-Nazi-desensitization thang with their skeletons. Too much life-affirming countervalence attached to them.
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