Women of the world, take over

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Women of the world, take over

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:01 pm

Women are the key to a peaceful overthrow of the PTB.
Both in the short term but especially the long term (if there is a long term).

Discuss.

Some random stuff to get the conversation going:

http://mp3archives.wfmu.org/archive/BL/ ... _World.mp3

http://stopbreedingevil.ytmnd.com/

Image
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby harflimon » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:16 pm

They are the key to a non-existent door. That's not a diss on women, just my opinion on peaceful overthrowing. You can't overthrow something peacefully.

The only way I see there being a peaceful outcome to this is if we antiquate the PTB. Or as some would like to say we need to "evolve" past them. Move so far forward in such a short time that we leave them holding onto worthless concepts. Leave them with power over things that don't matter anymore. And that isn't something that just women OR just men could do. It's something we would all have to do. It's possible, but unlikely of an outcome. Still I love hope.
The belief in coincidence is the prevailing superstition of the Age of Science.
harflimon
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

ahhh woman!

Postby marmot » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:28 pm

harflimon wrote:They are the key to a non-existent door.


This reminds me of something from an ancient mahayan buddhist text which reads:
"Woman is the portal of release. She is that within the world which takes us out of the world."

ahhh! Woman. <sigh>

Image
marmot
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:52 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:31 pm

harflimon wrote:They are the key to a non-existent door. That's not a diss on women, just my opinion on peaceful overthrowing. You can't overthrow something peacefully.


Yes, you can.

The only way I see there being a peaceful outcome to this is if we antiquate the PTB. Or as some would like to say we need to "evolve" past them. Move so far forward in such a short time that we leave them holding onto worthless concepts. Leave them with power over things that don't matter anymore. And that isn't something that just women OR just men could do. It's something we would all have to do. It's possible, but unlikely of an outcome. Still I love hope.


Antiquating comes in many speeds.

Pardon me for being a male female-chauvinist...
But I think women on the whole are inherently more moral.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:32 pm

In theme, some powerful remarks on the global shame of the state of women's rights by Stephen Lewis, at his final address as the UN's Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, Toronto 2006.

Woman Is the Nigger of the World
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:48 pm

Jeff wrote:Woman Is the Nigger of the World


Reminds me of the speech this woman gave after MLK's death...

Image

...I'll have to find my copy at some point and transcribe that speech.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Women of the world, etc.

Postby yathrib » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:12 pm

I'm a woman, but there are few things that piss me off more than the assertion that women taking over would make the world kinder and gentler. Think Margaret Thatcher. Ann Coulter. The official fascist shrew of the Republicrat party, Hillary Clinton. I could go on.

Some of the most reactionary, militaristic people I've ever met are women, and I refuse to believe that *all* of them are brainwashed by the patriarchy.
yathrib
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Women of the world, etc.

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:15 pm

yathrib wrote:I'm a woman, but there are few things that piss me off more than the assertion that women taking over would make the world kinder and gentler. Think Margaret Thatcher. Ann Coulter. The official fascist shrew of the Republicrat party, Hillary Clinton. I could go on.

Some of the most reactionary, militaristic people I've ever met are women, and I refuse to believe that *all* of them are brainwashed by the patriarchy.


Ugh.

On the whole, the whole.
I'm talking about women who aren't part of the power elite right now.
In other words, 99.9999% of women in the world.

Also, Ann Coulter is a man, baby. :lol:
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Women of the world, etc.

Postby yathrib » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:20 pm

LOL on Ann Coulter, that did actually occur to me after I posted. But also, remember "security moms?" A mythical media concoction you would think, but I knew plenty of them. All of them waiting for dubya in his bulging flight suit to come and rescue them from the Evil Brown People.
FourthBase wrote:Ugh.

On the whole, the whole.
I'm talking about women who aren't part of the power elite right now.
In other words, 99.9999% of women in the world.

Also, Ann Coulter is a man, baby. :lol:
yathrib
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Women of the world, etc.

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:23 pm

yathrib wrote:But also, remember "security moms?" A mythical media concoction you would think, but I knew plenty of them. All of them waiting for dubya in his bulging flight suit to come and rescue them from the Evil Brown People.


I know about security moms, and Republican women...
I'm talking about what lies deep within their brains.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Have y'all come across this?

Postby chlamor » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:02 pm

Image

The first section of the book is called "Matter", and it deals with the ways "man regards and makes use of woman and nature." Griffin manages to present a collage of the history of scientific and philosophic thought, (the thoughts of the men who governed all science and philosophy), and begins toward the end to weave in an emerging voice of woman, a chorus of women. So, there are at least two seperate voices going on throughout the book the voice of the patriarchy, written as simple fact, usually beginning with, "It is decided..." or "It is said..." and the quiet, almost frightened voice finding its way into the text in parentheses or italics.

Here's an example of some of the ideas included in "Matter" so you can get an idea of the style and focus of this opening section which sets the tone for the book:
It is decided that matter is passive and inert, that all motion originates from outside matter.
It is decided that the nature of woman is passive, that she is a vessel waiting to be filled.
And it is stated elsewhere that Genesis cannot be understood without a mastery of mathematics.
"He who does not know mathematics cannot know any of the sciences," it is said again, and it is decided that all truth can be found in mathematics....."
It is decided that in birth the female provides the matter (the menstruum, the yolk) and that the male provides the form which is immaterial, and that out of this union is born the embryo.
And it is written in the bestiary that the cubs of the Lioness are born dead but on the third day the Lion breathes between their eyes and they wake to life.
It is decided that the minds of women are defective. That the fibers of the brain are weak. That because women menstruate regularly the supply of blood to the brain is weakened.
All abstract knowledge, all knowledge which is dry, it is cautioned, must be abandoned to the laborious and solid
mind of man. "For this reason," it is further reasoned, "women will never learn geometry."

And so on....you get the picture. It could get infuriating. One of the points Griffin makes in the book is the same thing Ortner was attempting to prove in her essay, that women and nature are linked, as man is linked to culture. The main difference, other than Griffin's obviously more abstract style, is that she doesn't try to prove this hypothesis as her own, but instead arranges the history of thoughts on the subject in man's own voice, so that the patriarchy speaks for itself in a way (through the author of course, which does allow for at least minimal biases or personal statements). But Griffin lists her sources in great detail, although she doesn't even go so far as to say that this is purely a work of nonfiction, as she humbly states in the preface that "this is just a book and thus just a fiction" but that the "feelings which enter into these words are very real."

Her sources include everything from lumbering manuals, gynecology texts, the pronouncements of early theologians, annals of American exploration, office manuals, the dreams of scientists and etiquette journals, to important works by Sigmund Freud, Albert Einstein, and Friedrich Nietzche, to name a few. She also lists a book by Loren Eisley, whom we've read in class, as one of her main points of reference.

Both of the selections from the book which were assigned for class, "The Hunt" and "Use" are dealing with man viewing both woman and nature as his possession. "Use", although second in our list of Griffin's readings, comes before "The Hunt" in the actual text. "Use" is a subsection of "Land: Her Changing Face," dealing with the ways man has shaped the earth (and always read woman as an inner subtext of any mention to nature here) to his use. It's not difficult to see, and probably annoying to some, that Griffin is talking not only about the way man has tried to "break the wilderness" or conquer that which is wild, as regards to soil, but also to women.

In "Use" man enjoys the power and control he has created for himself. Man believes he is the one who has turned "waste into a garden." He has named the land, the plants and animals, and his wife and children,("Whatever she brings forth he calls his own. He has made her conceive.") and all of it he owns. The second and third paragraphs illustrate how man thought he was learning all of the secrets of nature, and kept all scientific thought to himself hidden from women. It is about women being kept separate, excluded, and silent. The list of names: "Phosphoric acid, nitrogen fertilizers, ammonium sulfate..." were created by men. Woman and land both called out to men in need and pain (or this is what the men heard in the story), so man gives her medicine, chemicals which are a mystery to her which she is not "capable" of understanding, or even pronouncing, but the chemicals seem to work; so she becomes indebted to him.

Griffin likens this to man ridding woman and land of pests. This becomes more clear with the quotations at the beginning of the section. (Each section begins with quotations which reveal the duality of the passage to follow). "Use" begins with a message about farming and pesticides and a line from a work called "Man's Role in Changing the Face of the Earth." Sandwiched between these two land references is a quote from Simone De Beauvoir about one of the ways women are used in society.

"The Hunt" is also about conquering the wildness. It begins with two quotations, one from MOBY DICK, the other from LADY CHATTERLEY'S LOVER: "And at last she could bear the burden of herself no more. She was to be had for the taking. To be had for the taking." Griffin's sources for this particular essay, if anyone is interested, were a story of the deer and her fawn being shot published in the New York Times, a story of English schoolboys breaking the back of a hare in "Beasts for Pleasure", a description of methods of hunting elephants from AMONG THE ELEPHANTS, and a list of extinct and vanishing species.

One section of "The Hunt" is echoed in other parts of the book: "He makes her grateful to him. He has tamed her, he says. She is content to be his, he says." It basically says the same thing as the lines in "Use" referring to medicine and "give me something." This line of thought is also illustrated in an earlier section called "The Show Horse" wherein the ettiquette taught to girls in Emily Post is reflective of horse training in "The Riding Teacher," which are the sources of the two opening quotations. Grooming is shown as it applies to women and horses.

Throughout the book, man's relationship to woman is also compared to his relationship with timber, wind, cows, mules, etc. Griffin makes special reference to the fact that women did not even name their own body, that men wouldn't let women midwife for a time, that anatomy was only named and understood by men when medicine had its beginnings. The book closes with a chapter entitled "Matter Revisited" after woman has found her voice, and this circle of ideas becomes an empowering one in the end.

One final passage from the book itself....this one is from the dedication: "These words are written for those of us whose language is not heard, whose words have been stolen or erased, those robbed of language, who are called voiceless or mute, even the earthworms, even the shellfish and the sponges, for those of us who speak our own languague..." (That reminded me of the dolphin language that the women shared in Peterson's essay.)

Additional information about the author that may or may not be helpful: Susan Griffin was born in Los Angeles in 1943. She was raised in California, where she now lives in the Berkeley Hills with her daughter, Chloe. She's not primarily known as a nature writer, as she writes in many different genres on various subjects. The common link between them all seems to be her womanhood. Her poetry is also dense and sensual, with an earthy quality or tone, if not earthrelated subject matter. She's written books on pornography, the nuclear crisis, and won an Emmy Award in 1975 for her play, VOICES. WOMAN AND NATURE was published in 1978.

http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/eng384/ongriffin.htm
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby yesferatu » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:06 pm

I do not think it is a matter of woman being immune to the pitfalls of power in the way men are. It is just they are cut off from the reins of power in the entrenched rite of initiation to that power, in the numbers that men have monopolized....due to the patriarchal religious eon that swept the planet.

But if women had the power, below is an example of the women who would weild it, in no remarkably dissimilar way than the asshole men who do so now. It would just be asshole women.

I think this subscription to women being eminently superior to men in ethics is complete new age faux-goddess bullshit.

This is just one example:

http://detain-this.blogspot.com/2007/06 ... takes.html

There are tons of these bitches who would take the reins of power in the same evil, manipulative, racist, psychopathic, sociopathic, destructive, hell-bent methods as their male counterparts.

Let's get real. They are the worlds niggers now only because of the patriarchal, neurotically demiurgic currents that recognize physical strength as the only political system, regardless of what -ism it comes packaged in.
yesferatu
 

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:15 pm

yesferatu wrote:I do not think it is a matter of woman being immune to the pitfalls of power in the way men are. It is just they are cut off from the reins of power in the entrenched rite of initiation to that power, in the numbers that men have monopolized....due to the patriarchal religious eon that swept the planet.

But if women had the power, below is an example of the women who would weild it, in no remarkably dissimilar way than the asshole men who do so now. It would just be asshole women.


Do you people have a vision problem?
I'm not talking about substituting the male pigs for the female pigs.
I'm talking about the masses.

I think this subscription to women being eminently superior to men in ethics is complete new age faux-goddess bullshit.


Give me a fucking break, it most certainly isn't.



See above.

There are tons of these bitches who would take the reins of power in the same evil, manipulative, racist, psychopathic, sociopathic, destructive, hell-bent methods as their male counterparts.

Let's get real. They are the worlds niggers now only because of the patriarchal, neurotically demiurgic currents that recognize physical strength as the only political system, regardless of what -ism it comes packaged in.


Yeah, you don't get what I'm saying. Next.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:18 pm

Hey you know what, special request: if you think this notion is bullshit then don't fucking post anything, just move the fuck on and leave this thread for people who are either undecided about the notion or sympathetic to it. I'm sick of the fucking urine brigade pissing on every parade. Fuck off.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
User avatar
FourthBase
 
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

.

Postby bubblefunk » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:28 pm

Better yet - close this one too! Request denied!

People think you're wrong but you don't want to hear what they have to say, no matter how respectfully they say it.
bubblefunk
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 156 guests