Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassination

by **chiggerbit** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:54 pm

Anybody ever hear this one, that Garrison considered the possibility that JFK was assassinated by gays as a thrill? I'd never heard it before. My very first reaction to this is to laugh it off. Then I remember all the sexual rumors associated with my favorite villains I'd like to see collared for JFK's murder, the Bush cabal, and I begin to wonder why they both couldn't be true. Hmmmm...I still don't buy it being a thrill murder. But, didn't Ruby claim that "they" had given him cancer when he was in prison dying? And Garrison was looking into the murder of a lesbian cancer specialist? More hmmm... clip, emphasis mine <a href="http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimloon5.htm">mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimloon5.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Assassination a Homosexual Thrill Killing By Dave Reitzes The "official" version of the Garrison conspiracy theory — the version enshrined in Oliver Stone's movie "JFK" and in Garrison's book On the Trail of the Assassins — has a massive CIA / anti-Castro / Military-Industrial plot killing Kennedy. This is also the version one gets from the latter-day disciples of Garrison like James DiEngenio and Bill Davy. What has been sanitized out of these accounts is Garrison's early fixation on what he thought was the sexual aspect of the case. Garrison viewed Clay Shaw's homosexuality as a key piece of evidence. The most widely read version of Garrison's fixation comes from journalist James Phelan. Phelan had written a favorable article about Jim Garrison in the Saturday Evening Post, and thus Garrison was willing to give Phelan an "exclusive" story, outlining the DA's "findings" about the assassination. Garrison arranged to meet Phelan in Las Vegas, and tell him about his case against Clay Shaw. Quoting Phelan: In an effort to get Garrison's story into focus, I asked him the motive of the Kennedy conspirators. He told me that the murder at Dallas had been a homosexual plot. "They had the same motive as Loeb and Leopold, when they murdered Bobbie Franks in Chicago back in the twenties," Garrison said. "It was a homosexual thrill-killing, plus the excitement of getting away with a perfect crime. John Kennedy was everything that Dave Ferrie was not — a successful, handsome, popular, wealthy, virile man. You can just picture the charge Ferrie got out of plotting his death." I asked how he had learned that the murder was a homosexual plot. "Look at the people involved," Garrison said. "Dave Ferrie, homosexual. Clay Shaw, homosexual. Jack Ruby, homosexual." "Ruby was a homosexual?" "Sure, we dug that out," Garrison said. "His homosexual nickname was Pinkie. That's three. Then there was Lee Harvey Oswald." But Oswald was married and had two children, I pointed out. "A switch-hitter who couldn't satisfy his wife," Garrison said. "That's all in the Warren Report." He named two more "key figures" whom he labeled homosexual. "That's six homosexuals in the plot," Garrison said. "One or maybe two, okay. But all six homosexual? How far can you stretch the arm of coincidence?" I told him that was an intriguing theory, but it wasn't evidence he could present to a court. (James Phelan, Scandals, Scamps, and Scoundrels, pp. 150-151.) Garrison disciples — fully understanding the silliness of this — have derided Phelan and claimed that this was some sort of disinformation to discredit the DA. But the evidence that Garrison believed it is overwhelming. Much of it comes from Garrison confident and supporter Richard Billings, a Life magazine reporter who was part of Garrison's inner circle and kept a diary of conversations with him. (Billings' notes are written almost entirely with lower case letters and capitalization is corrected throughout this article).....<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Given Garrison's belief that homosexuality was the key to the case, it's not suprising that he thought that other murders had a sexual basis, and were somehow connected to the JFK case. In early February, for example, Billings noted that the: . . . investigation [is] to cover other homosexual murders that may give a lead . . . May 1, 1962 — Jimmy Roop, 15-year-old boy found hung . . . wearing mother's clothes . . . termed suicide, but indications otherwise . . . he belonged to mysterious club, says his mother . . . had voiced fear that kids might kill him . . . when found his ankles were tightly bound . . . two queers about 18 or 19 known to have been hanging around . . . had Ohio license on their car . . . Layton Martens lived four blocks from Roop . . . does this link Roop killing to Ferrie?" (Ibid., entry of February 11, 1967, ellipses as in original) A March 28, 1967, Billings journal entry notes that Garrison was "looking into murder in July 1964 of Dr. Mary Sherman, a cancer specialist, a lesbian . . . thinks[s] she knew both Ferrie and Shaw . . . her murder an unsolved sex crime . . . ." Four years later, on the night before he was expected to testify on Jim Garrison's behalf at a hearing concerning the perjury charges leveled against Clay Shaw, Perry Russo contacted Shaw's lawyers and asked if they would like to speak with him. At the first of several interviews, Russo indicated, among many other things, that "the DA's office was making every effort to pin two murder charges on Shaw," these being the murder of a Dr. Sherman and "the killing of a 14 or 15 year old boy [by the name of] Jimmy Rupp" (Memorandum of Edward Wegmann, January 27, 1971, of interview with Perry Russo, January 26, 1971). ("There was also some talk about pinning a third murder on Clay Shaw but he [Russo] doesn't remember the name in that case."<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> When Ferrie friend Layton Martens testified before the Grand Jury on March 29, 1967, he was asked whether he knew Dr. Mary Sherman or Jimmy Roop. (He did not.) (Layton Martens, Grand Jury testimony of March 29, 1967, p. 25.) Bill Gurvich told Clay Shaw's lawyers in August 1967 that Garrison had intended to charge Ferrie and the other plotters with several unsolved murders of homosexuals in New Orleans. (Gerald Posner, Case Closed [New York: Random House, 1993], p. 438 fn., citing William Gurvich conference with Edward Wegmann, August 29, 1967, Tape 2, p. 9.) In May of 1967, "Garrison subpoenaed for questioning Juan Valdes, a Latin playwright who lives in New Orleans. Garrison did not say why he wanted to question Valdes. However, Valdes was the neighbor who called in police when Dr. Mary Stults Sherman was murdered in her New Orleans apartment during the summer of 1964. Dr. Sherman's knife-mutilated body was set afire in her fashionable uptown apartment. Her murder was never solved......." (James & Wardlaw, p. 111.)<hr></blockquote>

by **FourthBase** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:57 pm

Lots of homosexuals in the assassination web. But not a chance in hell it was a "thrill killing".

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:55 pm

I think that came from Garrison discovering an unexpected aspect of bonding among fascist conspirators and didn't know what to make of it. Reminds me of something I wrote <a href="http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/03/how-highs-water-mama.html">here</a> about the Kay Griggs interview (and about Craig Spence, Jeff Gannon and the rest): Now, honestly, I don't know how this material can ever make a difference. The Left can't touch it because the gatekeepers will call it homophobia, though it's really about power. And the Right won't touch it because it tarnishes its own militarist fetish. And most, anyway, would dismiss it out of hand as nonsense, because nothing in the media has prepared them for such knowledge. So who is going to pay attention? ... Maybe we need to go back to the 19th Century, and consider men like Albert Pike, and perhaps things like the erection of the Osirian phallus called the Washington Monument. Maybe we need to go back further still. Maybe millenia. Perhaps we need to do that, to discern a thread of history - either genuine, or meaningful only to the fascist imagination - that links ancient mystery religions and secret societies to today's imperial death cult, which binds itself in blood and semen.

by * » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:09 pm

Or maybe it's something as simple as "blackmailability". Homosexuality was no more socially acceptable in 1963 (and no more legal) than drug dealing, gun-running, bootlegging etc.

by **starroute** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:13 pm

Or perhaps the key is that secret networks of any one kind are always liable to having other secret networks piggybacked on top of them. I suspect that's the case with the Masons -- not that they have an inner circle which manipulates the ordinary membership, but that conspirators of various sorts are able to make use of an existing network of secret lodges both as camouflage for deeper secrets and also as a means of moving around and making connections. It also seems to be true of certain right-wing religious groups, such as the Fellowship Foundation. In the days before Stonewall, gay society really was a secret fellowship, with its own meeting places and recognition signs. (Wearing green on Thursday didn't start off as a gag line.) Part of the notorious elusiveness of the Kennedy assassination may be that it was piggybacked on top of a number of different existing conspiratorial groups -- the Mafia, the CIA, anti-Castro Cubans -- but was only known to a small number of individuals in any of those. Adding in covert gay circles would just be another aspect of the same picture.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:29 pm

<a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=57.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=57.topic</a> The Garrison Transcripts from the Clay Shaw trials are in the Data Dump forum. I can't find the post but I found in the Rockefeller or Pike or Church committee hearings (also in the Data Dump forum) that the CIA kept a file of 300,000 homosexuals which it was supposed to have destroyed in 1973. Homosexuality was illegal back then and a prime handle for blackmail and coercion.

by **Seventhson** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:11 am

Let me say that I know a bit about this stuff because I have been researching it for many years and have a different perspective because I came out of a background where I experienced things related to this subject first hand. The recruitment of homosexuals for intel ops (blackops, blackmailing, etc.) goes back to the prestigious prep schools and ivy league schools of the Northeast U.S.. I know because not only did I attend one of these schools, but I had family who did as well and who had intel ties. Homosexuality was a key methodology of compromising anyone (much as pedophilia is today - witness the ease with which kiddie porn can be placed on your computer if they want to nail you or shut you up and ruin your credibility [see the x-files movie just as a foreshadowing of this where Martin Landau, a whislteblower, is framed for kiddy porn on his computer]). Without going into details, I had a family member (not a blood relative) who worked with one of the highly likely CIA assassin team members - a Harvard graduate, secret society/CIA/Homosexual who travelled the world keeping residences with young men obviously for pleasure/blackmailing/coopting targets. He was an expert in assassination, coups, etc. going back to SE Asia and the Bay of Pigs. He was very close to one of the people often mentioned as the probable JFK assassination team leader. Secret Societies like Skull and Bones etc begin their recruitment of spooks and deep cover moles in prep schools and homosexuals are recruited to help compromise other students, I believe, and potential operatives. Once "outed" (especially back then) or set up, these agents can be used and convinced to keep quiet - even about horrible crimes committed by the membership. The operatives in New Orleans, Texas, etc. were simply the same sort of slimey pedophiles and perverts and assassins who were literally filling up the nastiest branches of the covert ops services. There is a lot of money in blackmail as well as the means to get "cooperation" from people in high places. James Gannon is a perfect contemporary example, and the whoie RA thing plays, I am sure, a huge role in the methodology of these fascists going back to Hitler's Rohm who was banging the Hitler youth en masse before he became a liability. Sadistic killers who are gay operatives for the CIA shadow spooks who killed JFK makes perfect sense based on my own personal knowledge of people who were close to the "principals". Is there a thrill in killing for money or for a perverted necrophilic lust? I would have to say these people seem to think so as it has been for millenia. The slimiest pedophile assassin blackmailer would be the most useful. I doubt there is any truth to the Garrison story, but if there is a grain of truth buried in the mix, then this is easily explained by the methodologies of fascism to recruit gay men as agents for the death machine butchers commonly known as "The Beast" or the Octopus.

by **Col Quisp** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:33 am

Welcome back, 7th Son!

by **Seventhson** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:08 am

I have been around here reading mostly. Very seldom do I feel the need to weigh in but I have also had pressing matters keeping me from too much time here. Folks here seem to get the drift and I do not feel the need to add much where there is already so much understanding. I also post over at Progressive Independent which I like a lot though it is less personal than here.

by **Pants Elk** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:55 am

This is a bit too vague to be useful to anybody, but I've resisted the temptation to "clarify" it. I know someone, personally, who when a student at UCLA back in the sixties, was contacted by the CIA, who would fund college courses for likely future assets. My friend is an Armenian, with parents in (edited out). He was "groomed" by his CIA contacts, and introduced to Poppy Bush, to whom he took an instant dislike - that "feeling of aversion" Jeff quotes on his blog page. Enter Mr X, later a major, major force at Halliburton, who invited my friend to his home, and tried to seduce him (my friend isn't gay, incidentally, not that this has much bearing on the story). When Mr X's advances were rebuffed, my friend's invitations to swanky government soirées stopped, and he became nobody again. Lucky guy.

by **RickTurpin** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:51 pm

Garrison was Hoover's lover. If you want the truthm try this: <a href="http://1st.shorturl.com">1st.shorturl.com</a>

by **chiggerbit** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:05 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Once "outed" (especially back then) or set up, these agents can be used and convinced to keep quiet - even about horrible crimes committed by the membership.<hr></blockquote> The problem with this scenario, I would think, is that a few who have been coerced are not going to be a happy campers, and would be more likely to spill their guts to someone, or leave a record. The chance that at least one of the coerced will tell all is enormous. Hmmmm, maybe THAT'S what aids was all about in the beginning. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek">

by **Seventhson** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:10 am

I don't think whistleblowing is a problem. Those who are "groomed" for blackmailing others get all the sex they want and money too. And if they try to blow the whistle they get whacked.

by **chiggerbit** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:17 pm

I suppose there is a psychological difference between being coerced into doing something and being seduced into doing something. All I know is that coersion would not work well with me, and I would assume the same for a lot of these others.

by **Seventhson** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:39 am

It is my belief based on my own experiences that homosexual boys in elite prep schools were "tapped" by those from intel backgrounds (usually teachers and admissions officers, coaches, etc.) and then coopted (not so much coerced - but recruited, but part of that recruitment was "hey, we know you like boys --- we want you to help us get more boys, and we will help you if you seduce boys and get them in our grasp". Both those who were recruited and those who were blackmailed were being used. But generally those blackmailed were ones who could be used for their positions in later years - or to keep them quiet or in line, especially if they were pedophoiles and faced prison. Those who were recruited to do the identifying and setting up were probably much more willing (even though they were subject to the same potential for blackmail and exposure or, ultimately in the gritty world of assassination, blackops etc., for death) and not so much coerced. My point is that this recruitment etc. goes back to the elite wasp schools. Those who fell into or were roped in to the Gannon-type parties, the gay young male hookers in the GHWBush white house, etc., and the abduction, ra/mc scenario ALL could be used in a modus perandi that is exquisitely necrophilic and Naziish fascist tied into the global elites from the BFEE on and over to wherever these killer creeps sow their wicked seed globally.

Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassination

Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassination

Re: Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassina

Re: Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassina

Re: Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassina

Re: Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassina

Re: Garrison Considered Gay Motive Possible in JFK Assassina

Gay actors does not make gay motive AT ALL.

Re: Gay actors does not make gay motive AT ALL.

Hi Quisp

Gay Recruitment

Re: Gay Recruitment

Re: Gay actors does not make gay motive AT ALL.

I don't think people will tell

Re: I don't think people will tell

I think I misstated what I meant to say re: gays "outed

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