Martian soil appears able to support life

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Martian soil appears able to support life

Postby Jeff » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:43 am

Martian soil appears able to support life

Thu Jun 26, 2008

By Jill Serjeant

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - "Flabbergasted" NASA scientists said on Thursday that Martian soil appeared to contain the requirements to support life, although more work would be needed to prove it.

Scientists working on the Phoenix Mars Lander mission, which has already found ice on the planet, said preliminary analysis by the lander's instruments on a sample of soil scooped up by the spacecraft's robotic arm had shown it to be much more alkaline than expected.

"We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life whether past present or future," Sam Kounaves, the lead investigator for the wet chemistry laboratory on Phoenix, told journalists.

"It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard, you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. ... It is very exciting for us."

The 1 cubic meter (35 cubic feet) of soil was taken from about 1 inch below the surface of Mars and had a pH, or alkaline, level of 8 or 9. "We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back," Kounaves said.

Pressed on whether there was still any doubt that life existed on Mars in some form, Kounaves said the results were "very preliminary" and more analysis was needed.

But he added: "There is nothing about the soil that would preclude life. In fact, it seems very friendly ... there is nothing about it that is toxic."

...

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... 2620080626
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Postby professorpan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:15 pm

I realize science is all about being methodical, but for god's sake, why can't we send a damn rover that can do basic things like look for water (like this one) AND do some preliminary examination of the soil for microorganisms?

Hurry the hell up, NASA! I want to see Martian bugs, dammit!
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:20 pm

Jeff, this is really interesting.

I am reminded of an interview that Project Camelot, where they talked about the specific methodology the Government would use for letting people know there was intelligent life. They said it was

1 Establish that another planet could hold bacterial life
2 Establish that there HAD been life on another planet
3 Establish that there WAS still bacterial / plant life on another planet and that it was friendly
4 Establish that there were traces of ancient humanoid civilisations on another planet
5 Establish that there were more recent traces of intelligent life on another planet
6 Establish that there IS life on another planet that is friendly
7 Establish that the universe is actually teeming with life, which not just visits here, but which lives here undetected.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:46 pm

Scientists said last week they had definitive proof that ice was on the planet after eight dice-sized chunks were seen melting away in a series of photographs.

[...]

"It is a huge step forward," Hecht said, adding the "wet chemistry" technique, which involves mixing Martian soil with water brought from Earth, was aimed at discovering what native Martian microbes might be able to live, survive and grow in the soil.


If there's melting ice in the vicinity, then there must be at least some Martian water in the Martian soil already.

Wiki article on the Phoenix here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(spacecraft)#Optical_microscope

It's carrying microscopes, so presumably the next step will be to examine the soil for microbes, microbial deposits, etc. And I presume they'll have taken precautions (?) to ensure that the Martian soil isn't contaminated by any microbes etc. in the Earth water. But I still don't really understand why they had to use that Earth water in the first place.
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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life

Postby Jeff » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:21 pm

"It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard, you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well.


Which come to think of it, reminds me:

They used to grow food in Kansas
Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw.
I can see the day coming when even your home garden
Is gonna be against the law.


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Postby orz » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:23 pm

Love how the news has it that scientists are constantly "flabbergasted", "baffled" etc.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:26 pm

orz wrote:Love how the news has it that scientists are constantly "flabbergasted", "baffled" etc.


In this case at least, not "the news" but the scientists themselves:

"We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back," Kounaves said.
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"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: Martian soil appears able to support life

Postby orz » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:29 pm

[quote=]You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. [/quote]

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Postby barracuda » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:32 pm

"Able to support life." Great. Lemme know when they find some chicks.

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Postby orz » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:36 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
orz wrote:Love how the news has it that scientists are constantly "flabbergasted", "baffled" etc.


In this case at least, not "the news" but the scientists themselves:

"We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back," Kounaves said.

I didn't say that it wasn't a quote, my point (not an amazingly insightful one i admit) is that science stories alomost only get reported in a hyperbolic context, either as a great miraculous discovery, or with the implication that scientists don't actually know what they're doing and it's all "just a theory". No surprise really as most science stories are pretty boring to most people I guess, but still...
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Postby Jeff » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:39 pm

From 2000



New Information Supports Claim Viking Discovered Life in 1976


San Diego - August 1, 2000 - Hot on the heels of NASA's decision to land new rovers on Mars, the debate over the existence of life on the red planet is heating up. Dr. Gilbert V. Levin, a chief proponent, today advanced his claim to finding living microorganisms on the elusive planet 25 years ago.

Dr. Levin, one of a trio of scientists, including himself and another who participated in NASA's Viking Mission, was presenting a paper at the Annual Meeting of the International Society for Optical Engineering refuting the mainstay arguments against life on Mars.

He contends that those arguments -- the presumed absence of organic matter and of liquid water -- are no longer tenable.

Levin, senior author of the paper and President of Biospherics Incorporated (NASDAQ/BINC), Beltsville, Maryland, was Experimenter on the Viking Labeled Release (LR) life detection instrument that landed on Mars in 1976.

His tests produced evidence for life that sparked a continuing controversy. The consensus of interested scientists has been that the Viking LR results on Mars, though positive, were chemical in origin and not biological.

However, in a 1997 publication, following two decades of study, Levin finally concluded that Viking had, indeed, detected living microorganisms on Mars.

Acknowledging that many scientists may remain unconvinced, he now proposes a new test to settle the issue once and for all, and urges that it be sent on the next lander mission to Mars.

Co-author Dr. Arthur Lafleur, Assistant Director of MIT's Environmental Health Science Center, provided information that refutes the most often cited argument against the LR life detection experiment -- the lack of organic matter, the stuff of life, on Mars, as reported by the Viking organic analysis gas chromatograph mass-spectrometer (GCMS).

Lafleur, who helped develop the Viking GCMS instrument, and a co-author of the original report of no organic matter on Mars, revealed unpublished results of pre-mission tests.

They showed that the instrument sent to Mars could easily have missed biologically significant amounts of organic matter in the soil, as it had in a number of tests on Earth.

Thus, the Mars GCMS results no longer can be considered proof that the LR failed to detect living microorganisms.

Co-author Dr. Lawrence Kuznetz, University of California, Berkeley, Department of Planetary Sciences, has put to rest the second prevailing argument against the possibility of life on Mars, that the atmosphere of the planet is too thin to support the existence of life -- essential liquid water.

Results of a laboratory study by a team of researchers led by Kuznetz showed that liquid water does exist under Martian environmental conditions. In addition, Kuznetz found results from 1960's tests of cooling systems of astronaut space suits showed that water exists in liquid form under atmospheric pressure as low as that on Mars.

The findings lend credence to a model for Martian water published in 1998 by Levin and his son, Ron, a Ph.D. physicist at MIT Lincoln Laboratory. Based on Viking and Pathfinder data, the model predicted amounts of moisture in the Martian soil equal to that found to nourish microbial life in the sand dunes of Death Valley, California.

Corroborated by the new NASA announcement of evidence for recent or current liquid water on Mars, these reports dispel the no-liquid-water issue against the Viking LR results.

...

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-life-00i.html
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Postby orz » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:45 pm


New Information Supports Claim Viking Discovered Life in 1976

Thanks for that... I remember as a kid reading some space book which pretty much stated that Viking found microorganisms, always wondered about that...
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Postby compared2what? » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:21 pm

Seriously? Does it have a girlfriend? Because that's better than I can do.

ON EDIT: I only read the subject line. So that's what I was addressing.
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Postby pepsified thinker » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:24 pm

2 things--

first, barracuda, re 'devil women', you rock--that totally tickled my funny bone.

second, re:

1 Establish that another planet could hold bacterial life
2 Establish that there HAD been life on another planet
3 Establish that there WAS still bacterial / plant life on another planet and that it was friendly
4 Establish that there were traces of ancient humanoid civilisations on another planet
5 Establish that there were more recent traces of intelligent life on another planet
6 Establish that there IS life on another planet that is friendly
7 Establish that the universe is actually teeming with life, which not just visits here, but which lives here undetected.


What time intervals between steps? How long to let each revelation sink in?

I'm kinda eager to see the last step in my lifetime--if only to see the merchandizing/pop culture treatment: 'realistic' alien head keychains, new car styles that mimic alien ships, the 'alien look' lines of clothing, and, of course, the kids version of halloween costumes.

That's all the 8th step, eh?
"we must cultivate our garden"
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Postby professorpan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:28 pm

I wonder if Bush will find the Martian asparagus as tasty as the German asparagus.
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