Texas daycare groomed kids for sex parties

[lightningBugout]

Well, at least "pedopropagandist" will finally get its first google hit.....

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

According to a Mineola police report, the department first investigated a complaint in June 2005 in which the siblings' foster mother said one of the girls described dancing toward men and another child saying that "everybody does nasty stuff in there."

...

Permanent custody of the three siblings was given to John and Margie Cantrell. This week, prosecutors in California charged John Cantrell with sexually assaulting a child in the state 18 years ago. Margie Cantrell said her husband is innocent.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... sc&start=0

edit: so not convicted yet. but he is charged which is weird and seems to point in another direction

The defendant is also charged with tampering with evidence for allegedly destroying evidence in the case, including costumes the children wore when they performed for the audiences and videotapes of the children performing skits and having sex with each other. Kelly faces two to 10 years in prison if convicted of the third-degree felony

http://www.tylerpaper.com/article/20080 ... /806240320

edit: maybe not clowns costumes then.

[lightningBugout]

You refer to a gang of clowns, something Jeff has written about on the blog, and how this goes against your reality. Then, when referring to the kids costume's you "project" that they were clown costumes. Point being, the gang of clowns thing is often treated as an urban myth, and the slippage when you talk about the kids wearing "clown costumes," whether or not you intend it, diminishes that part of the claim through association.

[lightningBugout]

"but he is charged which is weird and seems to point in another direction"

or to undermine your entire argument by suggesting that the abuse of kids is simply really common.

may i ask why you are not assuming that there is a moral hysteria about the foster care system itself that is based on a fundy Christian reaction against the breakdown of the family structure? may i ask why you are so worried about people being wrongly accused yet you are using this guy who has, as yet, only been charged as evidence against the organized abuse?

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

Unfortunately the commonness of child abuse is very well documented and I never said otherwise. Child pornography specifically is a very serious problem and large organised networks of child pornography users and makers do exist on the internet.

However children having sex in a swingers club in front of 100 people to me is a story of another dimension. I believe these kids had a hard time, were certainly neglected, possibly abused and so it's vital that they get treated right. But the context of this story (to answer any and all questions you care to edit in) made me feel that maybe they were being abused even further to conform to what certain adults wanted to hear from them.

This has nothing to do with my personal sexlife or defending "my fuckbuddies" as one poster so charmingly put it. I only had the children's best interest at heart first and foremost, also three people who may have been convicted on unfounded rumours, which also happens and is well documented, from witchhunts in times of old through to Oud Pekela in 1986-88, which featured a gang of clowns, also drugs, satanism and sm.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

By the way, I'm not saying that criminal sex acts could never happen in front of a large group of people. There are stories of gang rapes in Victorian times on the streets in broad daylight with noone interfering or calling the police.

[lightningBugout]

Pierre, why do you believe those "stories" from another milieu yet seem to assume that in our milieu, hysteria is a more likely explanation? This is incredibly ironic given the role that the concept of hysteria played in Victorian psychology.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

To reiterate: there are two types of events possible at play here which both are more common than any wellwishing person could hope for: child abuse and unfounded rumours running amok, which I have refered to as hysteria. It is sometimes very hard to tell which is which, which is why I remarked that some undeniable proof would be helpful.

With hysteria i didn't mean any psychological state in specific regarding sexuality, repressed or otherwise, or even allude to morality issues in a small town environment. Rather I used to term to describe the phenomenon whereby one group of persons claims something shocking which gets repeated this having a snowball effect on a small community.

Because the issue of children abuse rightfully brings out such strong reactions from people, this complicates this problem of discernment even more. Doubting someone is guilty all too easily gets construed as condoning what they are accused of doing, as could be seen in this very topic. And of course pedophiles/sexuals really do make use of this confusion to get their say, as do rightwing leaning elements.

Child abuse is horrible, but being falsely accused is horrible also. Just like national security is important, but individual freedom is important also. You have to weigh these two sides very carefully. And that's all I was saying.

[Jeff]

To reiterate: there are two types of events possible at play here which both are more common than any wellwishing person could hope for: child abuse and unfounded rumours running amok

I would add a third: abject denial.

Child abuse is horrible, but being falsely accused is horrible also.

And I would add: being told you're lying, and that nothing terrible really happened.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

I'd say that is part of the horror of both possibilities.

[Stephen Morgan]

Pierre, no. Respond to the evidence. Or respond to what I've actually written about Underwager, etc. You think its Christian fundies at work - all the more power to you but make the case. I admitted I made a snark comment and I retracted it. If you want to make your case, then go for it.

Let's get back to the kid's behavior, to the 5 minute deliberations, to the burnt video fragments, to the crib, etc.

Fundies. Wasn't underwager a baptist pastor? And Schaeffer of Colonia Dignidad?

[nathan28]

Pierre, no. Respond to the evidence. Or respond to what I've actually written about Underwager, etc. You think its Christian fundies at work - all the more power to you but make the case. I admitted I made a snark comment and I retracted it. If you want to make your case, then go for it.

Let's get back to the kid's behavior, to the 5 minute deliberations, to the burnt video fragments, to the crib, etc.

Neither one of you can make a case b/c neither one of you have access to the evidence; unlike a kiddie porn case, there's no smoking gun in the form of a computer etc. that we know about. The jury, however, might have something in that form, which could simply be the full weight of the evidence.

[biaothanatoi]

Oude Pekela in 1986-88

You reek, Pierre. All of your arguments - how you structure them, even their content - stink of the pro-paedophile movement of the 80s.

The Oude Pekela investigation was sparked by the disclosures of a boy with persistent anal bleeding, and up to 100 children disclosed abuse in the case.

Paidika-connected "journalists" like Benjamin Rossen leapt on the case as evidence of a "sex abuse hysteria", and Rossen's version was widely promoted by Underwager in the States.

This is despite the fact that the government's investigation into the case supported the children's account of abuse, although the matter did not proceed to criminal prosecution.

[nathan28]

Oude Pekela in 1986-88

You reek, Pierre. All of your arguments - how you structure them, even their content - stink of the pro-paedophile movement of the 80s.

The Oude Pekela investigation was sparked by the disclosures of a boy with persistent anal bleeding, and up to 100 children disclosed abuse in the case.

Paidika-connected "journalists" like Benjamin Rossen leapt on the case as evidence of a "sex abuse hysteria", and Rossen's version was widely promoted by Underwager in the States.

This is despite the fact that the government's investigation into the case supported the children's account of abuse, although the matter did not proceed to criminal prosecution.

The IPT folks carrying Rossen's story are headquartered out of what appears to be a farm in Minnesota. They also are listed as "expert witnesses", i.e., their opinion is for-hire. I cannot find much viable information about Oude Pekela save Rossen's piece which I find suspect.

[lightningBugout]

My take on Rossen's paper was simply that he is a bad writer with poorly developed analytic skills and limited research ability. It is, after all, an MA thesis. The fact that IPT re-published tells me little about him and much more about their willingness to use anything they can get their hands on (like subpar research) to make their case.

Many people, myself included, think the IPT is nothing more than a front group. Can you post a ref to their being based on a farm? Incidentally someone told me earlier today that the Minnesota area is a "hotbed" of sra/military weirdness....Who knows?