RFK killer = Thane Eugene Cesar

[anotherdrew]

seems like it to me at any rate. I wonder where he's gotten to in these last few decades, I bet he's still alive. <p></p><i></i>

[Rigorous Intuition]

A CBS reporter testified he'd seen a security guard firing shots in the pantry. Kennedy pulled off Caesar's clip-on tie as he fell.<br><br>Caesar's said, "Just because I don’t like the Democrats, that doesn’t mean I go around shooting them." <p></p><i></i>

[isachar]

Drew - possibly, but two extra bullets were almost certainly found and the evidence was destroyed by Chief Gates, the J. Edgar Hoover of the LAPD.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/kennedy/2.html">www.crimelibrary.com/terr...edy/2.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Hoover knew Bobby wasn't very fond of him, and Hoover almost certainly had MLK killed. People who were also likely complicit in JFK's assassination couldn't have been too pleased of the prospect of Bobby being President either.<br><br>Sirhan was probably another patsy. <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

all that is needed is a DA to reopen the case perhaps? Seems like there is ample evdence that was never even considered. Perhaps obstruction of justice charges could be brought against the original investigators? <br><br>It sounds like they sent him in with a few others most of whom didn't know what was going to happen, especially the girl in the poka-dot dresss seen running away shouting "we shot him." Seems like she was taken by surprise. Then he went and missed with every shot (that's what you get with a rush job) and the 'safety' finished it. The official 'police' response maybe right down to the 'first responders' may have been pre-selected and ready. <br><br>These things seem so well set up, even with the seemingly obvious screwups in this case, that court convictions seem unobtainable, perhaps thatm ay change though. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 3/22/06 11:35 pm<br></i>

[MinM]

A CBS reporter testified he'd seen a security guard firing shots in the pantry. Kennedy pulled off Caesar's clip-on tie as he fell.<br><br>Caesar's said, "Just because I don’t like the Democrats, that doesn’t mean I go around shooting them." <p></p><i></i>

Donald Schulman, of KNXT Television witnessed Thane Eugene Caesar firing the fatal shot:

Bobby Kennedy managed to pull off his killer's (Thane Eugene Caesar) tie.

YouTube - RFK Assassination: Multiple Shooters

[MinM]

Jim Yoder, a former work colleague, claimed that Cesar appeared to have no specific job at Lockheed and had “floating” assignments and often worked in off-limits areas which only special personnel had access to. According to Yoder, these areas were under the control of the CIA.

Yoder also gave Turner and Christian details about the selling of the gun. Although he did not mention the assassination of Robert Kennedy he did say “something about going to the assistance of an officer and firing his gun.” He added that “there might be a little problem over that.” (96)

William Klaber and Philip H. Melanson point out in their book, Shadow Play: The Untold Story of the Robert F. Kennedy Assassination that the LAPD “failed to clear up even elementary contradictions in the security guard’s story”. This included “inconsistencies regarding his actions during the shooting”. Nor did they check his gun the night of the murder to see if it had been fired or even what calibre it was.” Even more remarkable was that he was never called as a witness at the trial of Sirhan. (97)

An article by Dave Smith in the Los Angeles Times in 1971 explained why Cesar was not put on the stand. Smith quoted an unnamed “official” who stated that the reason why he was not used in court was because of inconsistencies in his story: “He told conflicting accounts and it seemed obvious he had nothing to tell us.” Smith went on to argue that the official thought that “he was trying to inject himself into a sensational case he knew little about.” Of course it is ridiculous to claim that Cesar was trying to “inject himself” into the story. He was at the scene of the crime and given his close proximity to Kennedy he was a vital witness that should have appeared in court. (98)

Jamie Scott Enyart was another witness who was not called to testify in court. Enyart, a high-school student, was taking photographs of Robert Kennedy as he was walking from the ballroom of the Ambassador Hotel to the Colonial Room where the press conference was due to take place. Enyart was standing slightly behind Kennedy when the shooting began and snapped as fast as he could. As Enyart was leaving the pantry, two LAPD officers accosted him at gunpoint and seized his film. Later, he was told by Detective Dudley Varney that the photographs were needed as evidence in the Sirhan trial. The photographs were not presented as evidence but the court ordered that all evidential materials had to be sealed for twenty years.

In 1988 Enyart requested that his photographs should be returned. At first the State Archives claimed they could not find them and that they must have been destroyed by mistake. Enyart filed a lawsuit which finally came to trial in 1996. During the trial the Los Angeles city attorney announced that the photos had been found in its Sacramento office and would be brought to the courthouse by the courier retained by the State Archives. The following day it was announced that the courier’s briefcase, that contained the photographs, had been stolen from the car he rented at the airport. The photographs have never been recovered and the jury subsequently awarded Scott Enyart $450,000 in damages. (99)

One possible connection between the deaths of John Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy is that they were all involved in a campaign to bring an end to the Vietnam War. One man who does believe there might be a connection is Edward Kennedy. NBC television correspondent Sander Vanocur, travelled with Edward Kennedy on the aircraft that brought back his Robert’s body to New York. Vanocur reported Kennedy as saying that “faceless men” (Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan) had been charged with the killing of his brothers and Dr. Martin Luther King. Kennedy added: “Always faceless men with no apparent motive. There has to be more to it.” (100)

Richard N. Goodwin is another who refuses to believe the lone-gunman theory. Goodwin was John Kennedy’s special counsel. In a review of Edward J. Epstein’s book, Inquest: The Warren Commission and the Establishment of Truth, Goodwin called for the setting up of an “independent group” to look again at the Kennedy assassination. (101) The following day the New York Times commented that “Mr. Goodwin is the first member of the President’s inner circle to suggest publicly than an official re-examination be made of the Warren Report.” (102)

In his book, Remembering America: A Voice From the Sixties, Goodwin explained the significance of the deaths of John Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. “The sixties… was a time when most Americans felt the future could be bent to their wills. The large public events of the time cut deeply into our personal lives: the civil rights movement, the sit-ins, the beginnings of the women’s movement, the War on Poverty. It was the time of the New Frontier and the Great Society and the dream of Martin Luther King. And then, the experiment barely begun, it collapsed in the voracious terrain of Vietnam. The sixties, so filled with promise, came to an end. Not a failure, but abandoned. Never given a chance.” (103)

The Vietnam War continued after the deaths of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. In December, 1968, Shackley became Chief of Station in Vietnam and took over Phung Hoang (Operation Phoenix). In his autobiography, Shackley denied he was the “godfather of Phung Hoang”. In fact, Shackley claims he did not approve of this program that involved the killing of non-combatant Vietnamese civilians suspected of collaborating with the National Liberation Front. However, according to Shackley, the Director of the CIA, Richard Helms, insisted that “we are not free agents” and that the CIA rather than the United States Army had to run Operation Phoenix. (104) Other members of Operation 40 in Vietnam at this time included Thomas Clines, David Morales, Carl Jenkins, Rip Robertson and Félix Rodríguez. Two other members of the “Secret Team” in Vietnam with Shackley were John Singlaub and Richard Secord.

Shackley claims that Phoenix was set up in November 1966. This was over two years before Shackley arrived in Vietnam. This is true. However, it was Shackley who turned it into an “assassination unit”. Tucker Gouglemann and William Buckley supervised the program. (105) Edith Holleman and Andrew Love claimed that it was Shackley and Clines who played the most important role in Operation Phoenix. The purposely targeted “South Vietnamese town mayors, clerks, teachers, business professionals and educated persons” who they considered were contributing to the “actual or potential civilian infrastructure of the NLF.” (106)

Fred Branfman quotes a U.S. State Department document in July, 1969, that said: “The target for 1969 calls for the elimination of 1800 VCI per month.” K. Barton Osborn, a U.S. Phoenix agent, testified to Congress, that in a year and a half of active service, “I never knew an individual to be detained as a VC suspect who ever lived through the interrogation”. He added: “This was the mentality… It became a sterile depersonalized murder program.” He described of how he inserted a “six-inch dowel into the ear canal of one of my detainee’s ears and the tapping through the brain until he died.” (107)

The Saigon Ministry of Information admitted that 40,994 were murdered as part of Operation Phoenix. (108) William Colby disagrees, when he testified before Congress he claimed that Phoenix was only responsible for the death of 20,587 persons. (109) Although he admitted to some “illegal killings”, Colby rejected a suggestion by Senator J. William Fulbright that it was “a program for the assassination of civilian leaders”. (110) As Branfman has pointed out: “This number, proportionate to population, would total over a three-year period, were Phoenix in practice in the United States. (111)


Notes

1. Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation, 1993 (pages 366-371)

2. Warren Hinckle & William Turner, Deadly Secrets, 1992 (page 53)

3. Senate Report, Alleged Assassination Plots Involving Foreign Leaders, 1975 (page 92)

4. Fabian Escalante, CIA Covert Operations 1959-1962: The Cuba Project, 2004 (pages 42 and 43)

5. Common Cause Magazine (4th March, 1990)

6. The Nation magazine (13th August, 1988)

7. Reinaldo Taladrid and Lazaro Baredo, Granma (16th January, 2006)

8. Daniel Hopsicker, Barry and the Boys: The CIA, the Mob and America’s Secret History, 2001 (page 170)

9. Webster Griffin Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography, 2004 (page 173)

10. Reinaldo Taladrid and Lazaro Baredo, Granma (16th January, 2006).

11. Deposition of Gene Wheaton (1-3, 7-8 March, 1988). Wheaton gave evidence against Chi Chi Quintero during the Iran-Contra investigation.

12. Fabian Escalante, CIA Covert Operations 1959-1962: The Cuba Project, 2004 (pages 42 and 43)

13. Daniel Hopsicker, Mad Cow Morning News (24th August, 2004)

14. Jean-Guy Allard, Granma (22nd May, 2005)

15. Arthur Schlesinger, memo to Richard Goodwin (9th June, 1961)

16. Jean-Guy Allard, Granma (22nd May, 2005)

17. Fabian Escalante, Centre for International Policy, Nassau, Bahamas (7th December, 1995)

18. Larry Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked, 2003 (page 17)

19. Anthony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy, 2002 (page 328)

20. Anthony and Robbyn Summers, The Ghosts of November, Vanity Fair (December, 1994)

21. Anthony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy, 2002 (page 326)

22. Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation, 1993 (pages 380-390)

23. Anne Buttimer, Assassination Records Review Board Report (12th July, 1995)

24. Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation, 1993 (pages 83-100)

25. Paul Meskil, New York Daily News (3rd November, 1977)

26. Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation, 1993 (pages 101-107)

27. Victor Marchetti, Spotlight (14th August, 1978)

28. Mark Lane, Plausible Denial, 1991 (pages 289-310)

29. Anthony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy, 2002 (page 371)

30. Evan Thomas, The Very Best Men, 1995 (page 28)

31. Ted Shackley, Spymaster: My Life in the CIA, 2005 (page 103)

32. David Kaiser, American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson and the Origins of the Vietnam War, 2000 (page 198)

33. David Corn, Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA Crusades, 1994 (page 129)

34. Alfred W. McCoy, The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade, 1991 (page 19)

35. Christopher Robbins, The Ravens: The Men Who Flew in America’s Secret War in Laos, 1987 (page 125)

36. David Corn, Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA Crusades, 1994 (page 138)

37. Joel Bainerman, The Crimes of a President, 1992 (page 67)

38. Edith Holleman and Andrew Love, Inside the Shadow Government, 1988 (pages 14-15)

39. Felix I. Rodriguez and John Weisman, Shadow Warrior: The CIA Hero of a Hundred Unknown Battles, 1989 (pages 9-10)

40. Alfred W. McCoy, The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, 1972 (page 278)

41. Edith Holleman and Andrew Love, Inside the Shadow Government, 1988 (page 13)

42. John Prados, Presidents’ Secret Wars, 1986 (page 282)

43. Joel Bainerman, The Crimes of a President, 1992 (page 68)

44. Martin Luther King, speech in New York (4th April, 1967)

45. William F. Pepper, The Children of Vietnam, Ramparts Magazine (January, 1967)

46. Clayborne Carson (editor), Autobiography of Martin Luther King (1998)

47. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (page 4)

48. William F. Pepper, An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King, 2003 (page 4)

49. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (page 147)

50. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (page 4)

51. Anthony Summers, The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, 1993 (page 352)

52. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (pages 135-137)

53. William C. Sullivan, memo ‘King’ (December, 1963)

54. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (pages 464)

55. Anthony Summers, The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, 1993 (page 355)

56. Jeff Shesol, Mutual Contempt: Lyndon Johnson, Robert Kennedy and the Feud That Defined a Decade, 1997 (page 351)

57. Robert Kennedy, speech in the Senate (2nd March, 1967)

58. Robert Kennedy, interview with Tom Wicker, Face the Nation (26th November, 1967)

59. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (pages 412-413)

60. Edwin O. Guthman, We Band of Brothers: A Memoir of Robert F. Kennedy, 1971 (page 326)

61. William F. Pepper, An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King, 2003 (page 7)

62. Robert Kennedy, speech, Washington (16th March, 1968)

63. Richard D. Mahoney, Sons & Brothers: The Days of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, 1999 (page 342)

64. Arthur Schlesinger, Robert Kennedy and His Times, 1980 (page 921)

65. William Turner, Rearview Mirror, 2001 (page 233)

66. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (pages 11-16)

67. James W. Douglass, The King Conspiracy Exposed in Memphis, included in The Assassinations, 2003 (page 494-95)

68. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (page 21)

69. Richard D. Mahoney, Sons & Brothers: The Days of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, 1999 (page 357)

70. Martin Luther King, speech at the Mason Temple, Memphis (3rd April, 1964)

71. Anthony Summers, The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, 1993 (page 363)

72. James W. Douglass, The King Conspiracy Exposed in Memphis, included in The Assassinations, 2003 (page 495)

73. William F. Pepper, Orders to Kill, 1995 (pages 311-492)

74. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (pages 145)

75. Anthony Summers, The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, 1993 (page 363)

76. Senate Report, Military Surveillance of Civilian Politics, 1972 (page 21)

77. William F. Pepper, An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King, 2003 (page 205-06)

78. Senate Report, Military Surveillance of Civilian Politics, 1972 (page 111)

79. Robert F. Kennedy, speech in Indianapolis (4th April, 1968)

80. Robert F. Kennedy, speech at the Indiana University Medical Center (26th April, 1968)

81. Richard D. Mahoney, Sons & Brothers: The Days of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, 1999 (page 368)

82. Robert Blair Kaiser, RFK Must Die! A History of the Robert Kennedy Association and Its Aftermath, 1970 (page 469)

83. Jean Stein and George Plimpton, American Journey: The Times of Robert Kennedy, 1970 (page 334)

84. Lisa Pease, Sirhan Says “I Am Innocent”, included in The Assassinations, 2003 (page 535)

85. Robert F. Kennedy, speech at the Ambassador Hotel, Los Angeles (4th June, 1968)

86. William Turner and Jonn Christian, The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy: The Conspiracy and Coverup, 1993 (page 162)

87. Dan Moldea, Regardie’s Magazine, June, 1987

88. Dan E. Moldea, The Killing of Robert F. Kennedy, 1995 (page 146)

89. Karl Uecker, written statement given to Allard K. Lowenstein in Dusseldorf, Germany (20th February, 1975)

90. William Turner, Rearview Mirror, 2001 (page 244)

91. William Turner and Jonn Christian, The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy: The Conspiracy and Coverup, 1993 (page 166)

92. Robert Blair Kaiser, RFK Must Die, 1970 (page 25)

93. Lisa Pease, Sirhan Says “I Am Innocent”, included in The Assassinations, 2003 (page 534)
94. William Turner, Rearview Mirror, 2001 (page 244)

95. William Klaber and Philip H. Melanson, Shadow Play: The Untold Story of the Robert F. Kennedy Assassination, 1997 (page 132)

96. William Turner and Jonn Christian, The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy: The Conspiracy and Coverup, 1993 (page 166)

97. William Klaber and Philip H. Melanson, Shadow Play: The Untold Story of the Robert F. Kennedy Assassination, 1997 (page 132)

98. Dave Smith, Los Angeles Times (16th August, 1971)

99. William Turner, Rearview Mirror, 2001 (page 246)

100. William Turner and Jonn Christian, The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy: The Conspiracy and Coverup, 1993 (page xxxiii)

101. Richard N. Goodwin, Book Week (23rd July, 1966)

102. New York Times (24th July, 1966)

103. Richard N. Goodwin, Remembering America: A Voice from the Sixties, 1988 (page 543)

104. Ted Shackley, Spymaster: My Life in the CIA, 2005 (pages 233-234)

105. David Corn, Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA Crusades, 1994 (page 194)

106. Edith Holleman and Andrew Love, Inside the Shadow Government, 1988 (page 13)

107. Fred Branfman, South Vietnam’s Police and Prison System, included in Uncloaking the CIA, edited by Howard Frazier, 1978 (page 113)

108. House Committee on Government Operations, 1971 (page 321)

109. Republic of Vietnam, Ministry of Information, Vietnam 1967-71: Towards Peace and Prosperity, 1971 (page 52)

110. House Committee on Government Operations, 1971 (page 183)

111. Alfred W. McCoy, A Question of Torture, 2006 (page 67)

112. Fred Branfman, South Vietnam’s Police and Prison System, 1978 (page 114)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... topic=5799

[sunny]

Cesar was almost certainly the shooter.

[MinM]

49. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (page 147)

52. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (pages 135-137)

53. William C. Sullivan, memo ‘King’ (December, 1963)

74. William C. Sullivan, The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover’s FBI, 1979 (pages 145)

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=398804#p398804

FBI Agents who knew a great deal about JFK's assassination/coup, and were scheduled to testify before the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1977:

William Sullivan, third in command at FBI, died in "hunting accident"
Louis Nicholas, special assistant to J. Edgar Hoover and Hoover's liaison with the Warren Commission;
Alan H. Belmont, special assistant to Hoover;
James Cadigan, document expert with access to documents that related to death of John F. Kennedy;
J. M. English, former head of FBI Forensic Sciences Laboratory where Oswald's rifle and pistol were tested;
Donald Kaylor, FBI fingerprint chemist who examined prints found at the assassination scene.

Hale Boggs, Warren Commission member who did not agree with the findings, died in small plane "crash"

John Lennon who, as his son Sean said in New Yorker magazine, was a “counter-cultural revolutionary” who the American government could not ignore. He said: “He was dangerous to the government. If he had said, ‘Bomb the White House tomorrow’, there would have been 10,000 people who would have done it. These pacifist revolutionaries are historically killed by the government. Anybody who thinks that Mark Chapman (who shot Lennon outside his New York apartment in 1980) was just some crazy guy who killed my dad for his personal interests, is insane. Or very naive. Or hasn’t thought about it clearly. It was in the best interests of the United States to have my dad killed. Definitely. And, you know, that worked against them because, once he died, his powers grew . . . They didn’t get what they wanted.”

Bob Marley, definite political assassination (by "cancer") who survived one previous assassination attempt when gunmen invaded his home and shot everyone

^^^Edited to add links to podcasts and other relevant articles^^^

rigorousintuition.ca :: I Have a DreamWorks

Clint Eastwood’s Dishonest ‘J. Edgar’ | Consortiumnews
November 30, 2011

Much of the controversy around Clint Eastwood’s J. Edgar has swirled around screenwriter Lance Black’s depiction of the late FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover as a closeted gay man, since Black is a gay writer-director and most of his previous projects featured gay themes.

But even more important in any critical analysis of the movie is Eastwood’s work as director. Because that informs us about why the American film business has come to a point when a mediocre, compromised and dishonest production like this much ballyhooed film gets praised for “being candid” about one of the worst Americans of the 20th Century...

Director of Domestic Intelligence William Sullivan was the only man in the executive offices who ever stood up to Hoover. About a year or two before Hoover died, Sullivan wrote a series of memos criticizing Hoover’s performance as Director on issues like his gross exaggeration of the Communist threat inside the USA, his failure to hire African-American agents, and his failure to enforce civil rights laws. Sullivan also had tired of Hoover’s blackmail surveillance on presidents and began to think the Director was not of sound mind. [Summers, pgs. 397-99]

This culminated in a meeting in Hoover’s office where Sullivan said Hoover should retire. Hoover refused, and it was Sullivan who was forced out of the Bureau. Sullivan later testified before the Church Committee and gave Congress much inside information about Hoover’s illegal operations.

Sullivan once told columnist Robert Novak that if one day he would read about his death in some kind of accident, Novak should not believe it; it would be murder.

In 1977, during the re-investigations of the killings of John Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Sullivan died in New Hampshire as he was meeting with friends to go deer hunting. Another hunter, with a telescopic sight, mistook Sullivan for a deer and killed him with his rifle.

The book that Sullivan was working on about his 30 years in the FBI was then posthumously published, but reportedly in much expurgated form. He was one of six current or former FBI officials who died in a six-month period in 1977, the season of inquiry into FBI dirty deeds and FBI cover-ups of political assassinations.

If this film had ended with the Sullivan-Hoover feud, it would have told us something about both America and about Hoover. But it would have been dark and truthful. Evidently, Black and Eastwood were not interested in that.

Black’s agenda is pretty clear. Why Eastwood went along with this pastel-colored romance about a man who was a blackmailing monster is difficult to understand. But it proves again, as Pauline Kael explained decades ago, why Clint Eastwood is no artist. Artists don’t compromise. And they don’t falsify.

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/11/30/cl ... t-j-edgar/

http://www.blackopradio.com/pod/black554a.mp3

viewtopic.php?p=399983#p399983

viewtopic.php?p=445766#p445766

[MinM]

Sunday, February 5, 2012
Major New Development in RFK case

Buried a few paragraphs into the story is this little gem, "Harris, who is asking a federal court in Los Angeles to dismiss Sirhan's request, conceded in court papers filed Wednesday that his lawyers may be able to show two guns were involved in Kennedy's assassination." Wow...

http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2 ... -case.html

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11973

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32294

[harry ashburn]

re; where is thane eugene cesar? Last I heard he was alive, living in the Philipines