Anthrax suspect dies in apparent suicide

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Postby Jeff » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:20 pm

Scientists Question FBI Probe On Anthrax
Ivins Could Not Have Been Attacker, Some Say

By Joby Warrick, Marilyn W. Thompson and Aaron C. Davis
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 3, 2008; Page A01

For nearly seven years, scientist Bruce E. Ivins and a small circle of fellow anthrax specialists at Fort Detrick's Army medical lab lived in a curious limbo: They served as occasional consultants for the FBI in the investigation of the deadly 2001 anthrax attacks, yet they were all potential suspects.

Over lunch in the bacteriology division, nervous scientists would share stories about their latest unpleasant encounters with the FBI and ponder whether they should hire criminal defense lawyers, according to one of Ivins's former supervisors. In tactics that the researchers considered heavy-handed and often threatening, they were interviewed and polygraphed as early as 2002, and reinterviewed numerous times. Their labs were searched, and their computers and equipment carted away.

The FBI eventually focused on Ivins, whom federal prosecutors were planning to indict when he committed suicide last week. In interviews yesterday, knowledgeable officials asserted that Ivins had the skills and access to equipment needed to turn anthrax bacteria into an ultra-fine powder that could be used as a lethal weapon. Court documents and tapes also reveal a therapist's deep concern that Ivins, 62, was homicidal and obsessed with the notion of revenge.

Yet, colleagues and friends of the vaccine specialist remained convinced that Ivins was innocent: They contended that he had neither the motive nor the means to create the fine, lethal powder that was sent by mail to news outlets and congressional offices in the late summer and fall of 2001. Mindful of previous FBI mistakes in fingering others in the case, many are deeply skeptical that the bureau has gotten it right this time.

"I really don't think he's the guy. I say to the FBI, 'Show me your evidence,' " said Jeffrey J. Adamovicz, former director of the bacteriology division at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases, or USAMRIID, on the grounds of the sprawling Army fort in Frederick. "A lot of the tactics they used were designed to isolate him from his support. The FBI just continued to push his buttons."

Investigators are so confident of Ivins's involvement that they have been debating since Friday whether and how to close the seven-year-old anthrax investigation. That would involve disbanding a grand jury in the District and unsealing scores of documents that form the basis of the government's case against Ivins.

Negotiations over the legal issues continue, but a government source said that the probe could be shuttered as early as tomorrow. The move would amount to a strong signal that the FBI and Justice Department think they got their man -- and that he is dead, foreclosing the possibility of a prosecution. No charges are likely against others, that source added.

Once the case is closed, the FBI and Justice Department will face questions -- and possibly public hearings -- from congressional oversight committees, which have been largely shut out of the case the past five years. The investigators have cited the ongoing nature of the case, as well as accusations of leaks to the media, for the information blackout to Capitol Hill.

One bioweapons expert familiar with the FBI investigation said Ivins indeed possessed the skills needed to create the dust-fine powder used in the attacks. At the Army lab where he worked, Ivins specialized in making sophisticated preparations of anthrax bacteria spores for use in animal tests, said the expert, who requested anonymity because the investigation remains active.

Ivins's daily routine included the use of processes and equipment the anthrax terrorist likely used in making his weapons. He also is known to have had ready access to the specific strain of Bacillus anthracis used in the attack -- a strain found to match samples found in Ivins's lab, he said.

"You could make it in a week," the expert said. "And you could leave USAMRIID with nothing more than a couple of vials. Bear in mind, they weren't exactly doing body searches of scientists back then."

But others, including former colleagues and scientists with backgrounds in biological weapons defense, disagreed that Ivins could have created the anthrax powder, even if he were motivated to do so.

"USAMRIID doesn't deal with powdered anthrax," said Richard O. Spertzel, a former biodefense scientist who worked with Ivins at the Army lab. "I don't think there's anyone there who would have the foggiest idea how to do it. You would need to have the opportunity, the capability and the motivation, and he didn't possess any of those."

Another scientist who worked with Ivins acknowledged it would have been technically possible to manufacture powdered anthrax at Fort Detrick, but unlikely that anyone could have done so without being detected.

"As well as we knew each other, and the way the labs were run, someone would discover what was going on," said the scientist, "especially since dry spores were not something that we prepared or worked with."

Scientists, co-workers and people who for years have researched the anthrax investigation, only to encounter frustration, misinformation and false leads, say law enforcement authorities should lay out their case as soon as possible. They want authorities to explain how Ivins, who led a seemingly normal life as a family man, churchgoer and volunteer, could have been responsible for one of the nation's most notorious unsolved crimes.

Authorities cast doubt yesterday on reports that Ivins had acted for financial gain based on patents and scientific advances he had made. Experiments by Ivins, working with several other Fort Detrick colleagues, led to two patented inventions considered crucial in the development of a genetically modified anthrax vaccine made by VaxGen, a California company that secured large government contracts after the 2001 anthrax attacks.

But sources familiar with details of the Army's patent process said it was unlikely that Ivins or the other scientists would reap a big financial windfall from VaxGen's vaccine production. They say the government restricts income from inventions produced in its laboratories to no more than $150,000 per year, but the amount is often considerably less.

Jaye Holly, who lived next door to the Ivinses until she and her husband moved to New York a month ago, said she couldn't believe that her former neighbor, who was obsessed with grass recycling and who happily drove a 20-year-old faded red van, would endanger others for financial gain.

"I can't imagine him being involved in a scheme to make money or to make a profit, especially one that would put people at risk or even die," Holly said. "That's not the Bruce we knew. He was sweet, friendly. I mean, he was into grass recycling."

Court records obtained yesterday shed further light on the concerns of a mental health professional who met Ivins during his final months -- a period when, friends say, he fell into depression under the strain of constant FBI scrutiny. The records also suggest that a Frederick social worker, Jean Duley, passed on her concerns to the FBI after receiving death threats from Ivins.

Duley became so worried that she petitioned a local judge for a protective order against Ivins. According to an audio recording of the hearing, she said she had seen Ivins as a therapist for six months, and thought he had tried to kill people in the past.

"As far back as the year 2000, [Ivins] has actually attempted to murder several other people, [including] through poisoning," she said "He is a revenge killer, when he feels that he's been slighted . . . especially towards women. He plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings," she told a judge.

She described a July 9 group therapy session in which Ivins allegedly talked of mass murder.

"He was extremely agitated, out of control," she said. Ivins told the group he had bought a gun, and proceeded to lay out a "long and detailed homicidal plan," she said.

"Because he was about to be indicted on capital murder charges, he was going to go out in a blaze of glory; that he was going to take everybody out with him," she said.

Staff writers Carrie Johnson and Paul Kane and staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01632.html
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Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:03 am

Well, the timing of the resignation of the social worker is possibly suspicious. But if she's right, and Irvin had issues with women, then this little nugget from one of Jeff's posts should get attention:

Bruce Ivins was troubled by the dust, dirt and clutter on his officemate's desk, and not just because it looked messy. He suspected the dust was laced with anthrax.

And he was in a position to know. Ivins, a biodefense expert, and his officemate were deeply involved in Operation Noble Eagle — the government's response to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that killed almost 3,000 Americans and the anthrax attacks that killed five more less than a month later.

It was December 2001. Ivins, an authority on anthrax, was one of the handful of researchers at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick, Md., who prepared spores of the deadly bacteria to test anthrax vaccines in animals. He knew enough to grow alarmed when his officemate complained, as she had frequently of late, about sloppy handling of samples coming into the lab that could be tainted with anthrax.

"I swabbed approximately 20 areas of (her) desk, including the telephone computer and desktop," Ivins later reported to Army investigators. Half of the samples, he found, "were suspicious for anthrax," betraying the clumpy brown appearance of anthrax colonies under a microscope.

Rather than reporting contamination to his superiors, Ivins said, he disinfected the desk. "I had no desire to cry wolf," he later told an Army investigator.


No independent verification that there actually were contaminations, only Irvin's word.

And, don't forget this:

September 19

A letter addressed to Jennifer Lopez containing a Star of David and a bluish powder arrived in the Sun's mailroom in the American Media headquarters. Several people handled the letter, and Stevens sniffed some of the powder.


In other words, the letter wasn't addressed to Stevens, the first victim to die in the anthrax attacks, but a female co-worker.

But, yeah, I'd like to see independent confirmation of the social worker's claims. It seems weird that a man that smart would admit to those kinds of acts when under the gun as Irvins was.
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Postby OP ED » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:21 am

*calls bullshit*

wait a minute. so the bioweapons expert supposedly has tried to poison several other people and failed?

and he didn't lose his job? (for incompetence?)

none of this sounds right to me.
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:49 am

"As far back as the year 2000, [Ivins] has actually attempted to murder several other people, [including] through poisoning," she said "He is a revenge killer, when he feels that he's been slighted . . . especially towards women. He plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings," she told a judge....

---------------------

Larry Ford:

"CBS News said that police also found the medical files of some 83 women, including some of their personal effects and photos, below the floorboards of the house...

Later....

"Ford offered an apartment and a car to the student, but later stopped paying for both gifts. She developed severe neurological conditions that resulted in her having to undergo brain surgery and medication.

The N.Y. Times article on November 3, 2002, also stated that Ford had admitted to two friends that he had infected the student with an "alpha toxin," a story which was later supported by evidence received during the investigation.

Tami Tippit met with Ford twice to discuss using her likeness in an advertisement selling a skin care product he had supposedly developed. She claimed to have been poisoned by Ford at one of those meetings. Like the university student, Tippit also contracted a mysterious neurological condition.

Another unusual incident, this time directed against Ford, occurred during his earlier years at the university. According to the March 20, 2002, L.A. Times, Ford's life was threatened by a hit-man in 1978. One evening near the UCLA campus parking garage, a man shot four bullets directly at Ford. Only one bullet hit Ford and was deflected by a Dictaphone he had been carrying in his breast pocket. The gun man was never found and the incident was downplayed by the doctor....


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terr ... ord/2.html

--------------------

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... ces_trial/

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. --What the former MIT professor and wealthy businessman told police sounded like a scene from a bad spy novel: He was shot by two masked men with Russian accents, and saved only because two of the bullets bounced off his belt buckle...

In addition to his various businesses and teaching job at MIT, Donovan was a clinical professor of pediatrics at Tufts University for 10 years, where he did research using computer and statistical analysis to track birth defects.

Throughout his long, multi-faceted career, Donovan has made a lot of enemies. In 2005, he was involved in more than a dozen lawsuits with former business associates and relatives, including a bitter fight with his five children over trust assets...

In 2002, one of Donovan's daughters told her siblings that Donovan had sexually abused her when she was a child. Donovan vehemently denies the allegation, and said through his attorneys that his children are using it to gain leverage in the dispute.

People who know Donovan say he is a complex man who inspires both fierce loyalty and animosity.

---------------------

I think this is the new game they want us all to play. It's probably called Nazi or Patsy. I hope that is original, but I fear I have subconciously stolen it from Hugh or another poster.

It looks to me like scientists in high positions, in a number of sensitive fields, are being taken down worldwide. One way or another - right reason, or none. And it's being going on for a while now. [Edit] Since shortly before a highly identifiable signatured strain of anthrax started turning up all over the place.
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Re: Ohio, again

Postby timetunneler » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:45 am

Fat Lady Singing wrote:There was something about what Tom Ivins said in the interview... the paratrooper thing, and if you listen he emphasizes the "him" in "they were investigating him" ... he talks about the FBI asking about his childhood... interesting

I've connected some dots here that I don't really want to spell out, because these folks are, you know, actual people, not fictional characters, but maybe y'all see where I'm going with this.

Note that Ohio is rather a hotbed of various racist/ Christian extremist activity; I find it interesting that the brother draws a HUGE line between himself and his two brothers (from his brother's Letters to the Editor, he is very clearly on the liberal side of "conservative Christianity" -- showing his disgust at racism, for instance).

I hate to be so vague about what I'm thinking, but I know I'm just an armchair detective.


Then let me help you out by being a bit less vague and spelling out what I have noticed. :wink:

All of the shit you see going on in the world is the result of a secret racist turf war going on between three main groups of players:

1. "Aryan" west
2. Zionists
3. Arabs

They don't all perfectly align up into those groups but in a nutshell that is what it is. There are the Russians and Chinese of course..but their names don't seem to pop enough to warrant them as being the major players.

Whether it is the Oklahoma City Bombing, the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, 9/11, Iran/Contra, whatever... it involved racist true believers of Arab, "Aryan" Western and Zionist persuasion in a neverending game of grab ass that is basically destroying the world over their need for racial and territorial dominance. If I were to put a date on when it started, I'd say somewhere around 1947 with the creation of the CIA and later co-opting Nazis in its balls to the wall need to be master over the entire fucking planet.

The "Centers of High Weirdness" I have mentioned before? I don't think i have really spelled it out before but they are essentially racist hotbeds. And they are areas that have elites that push lies and disinformation to stir up those racists elements to work towards their goals. Dade County South Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, San Diego California, etc.

What makes them Centers for High Weirdness? A higher than normal propensity to telling lies and making up bullshit stories to cover up the wild and crazy antics of their local underground racist, criminal and intelligence networks. Ever wonder why so many more people in Florida like to fall off the tops of tall buildings, hang themselves in their mother's backyard, shoot themselves twice in the face, spontaneously combust or get hit by freak lightning?

Elohim City, Midwest Bank Robbers, NATO Gladio operations, European racist/fascists, hardcore Zionists, and Muslim extremists. The common denominator seems to be racists of one stripe or another causing havoc to further the interests of their "clan."

It involves these groups spying on each other, blackmailing each other and communicating hidden messages back and forth to each other about what they know and intend to do with that knowledge. The more I watch this all playing out the more obvious it becomes.

The patsies at the bottom inside of these racists groups don't realize half of the time that they are manipulated and protected much further up the chain by "clan" moles and provocatuers within official government agencies such as the FBI, CIA, Mossad, MI5, ISI who use them and destroy them as needed to further the "clan's" goals.

Secrecy of these operations is kept by way of blackmail of participants all the way up the chain of command. Yes, THAT is how your governments can keep a secret. So your guys at the top are some pretty dirty individuals... they have to be to keep them in check. The provocatuers they use are also dirty and being kept in check by some sort of blackmail.

THAT is what all of this bullshit is in my opinion after having watched it for years and noticed the same people, groups and locations that repeately pop up.

The disinformation, the lies, the provocatuering, the coverups, all of it a big hall of smoke and mirrors being run by some unseen agents at the top while their "clan" patsies at the bottom take the blame and punishment for it.

Just like the whole Abu Ghraib fiasco. Created, masterminded and run by Cheney and Rumsfeld while clan patsies at the bottom take the fall for it and go to jail.

Places like Ohio and Pennsylvania are simply local hotspots where likeminded individuals can be co-opted, infiltrated and provocatuered to advance the agendas of "clan" spooks sitting in offices in D.C., Virginia, Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Glad to see someone else is looking at geography and some of the other things I've noticed to understand the game being played by these groups.
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Re: Ohio, again

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:59 am

timetunneler wrote:
Glad to see someone else is looking at geography and some of the other things I've noticed to understand the game being played by these groups.


Oh most definitely...perhaps I just go off the deepend more...as much as I see certain areas hubs of intel spook incubation for creating sleeper cells(florida, norman oklahoma, san diego), I also see "high weirdness" as a
possibility for these geographic anomalies.

You mention a "turf war"...this implies that it's a competition. However, like pro wrestling, there's always someone at the top writing the scripts.
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Postby timetunneler » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:02 am

Fat Lady Singing wrote:There's something here, I'm convinced. I googled Zack to discover that a lot of hate sites made a big deal about Zack being a "Zionist," and also that there was some sort of harassment of another scientist, and a "Jewish hoax"... I didn't even want to go to these sites to investigate further, so I can't draw any conclusions. The timeline is intriguing to me... going back to the early 90s... Harris' first arrest...

Am I reaching too far, here?


No you're not. Like 9/11, the anthrax story is another part of the Aryan West, Aran, Zionist eternal game of grab ass.

The Christian Identity/Patriot websites want the bad guy to be Zack while I imagine Zionist aligned groups might say the culprit is Ivins. At the bottom levels everyone is simply assigning blame and reacting based on their racial biases.

At the top of the hierarchy, the "Aryan West", Zionists, and Arabs are all cutting deals, framing up evidence and choosing patsies to take the blame. Whatever deal works out best for their clan. Again, that is what 9/11 is. American, Saudi, German, Israeli, Pakistan elites and intelligence working together to find away to get into Iraq, Iran and Syria and carve them up. If that means Saudi Arabia and Pakistan need to frame up some of their jihadis, America needs to frame up some of its Neo-Nazis, and Israel needs to help monitor their progress to get the job done... then so be it.
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Re: Ohio, again

Postby timetunneler » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:12 am

8bitagent wrote:
timetunneler wrote:
Glad to see someone else is looking at geography and some of the other things I've noticed to understand the game being played by these groups.


Oh most definitely...perhaps I just go off the deepend more...as much as I see certain areas hubs of intel spook incubation for creating sleeper cells(florida, norman oklahoma, san diego), I also see "high weirdness" as a
possibility for these geographic anomalies.

You mention a "turf war"...this implies that it's a competition. However, like pro wrestling, there's always someone at the top writing the scripts.


Although I get a bit miffed at your Obama posts... I understand your concern and the need to warn people on him not necessarily being what we think he is. But I like your posts better when you are examining the puppet masters. To me these areas are hotspots because there is something in each of them that is being manipulated. I imagine in Oklahoma it is related to the FAA (I believe it is FAA, customs related?) stuff that is centered there, and Elohim city. In Pennsylvania there are some old money elites and JFK assassination operators. Texas has Bush, racial cults and more JFK stuff. San Diego has a certain racial tensions, Cult/Intel group and defense contracting operations. South Florida has Jeb Bush, drugs and intelligence networks. So there are deeper reasons for why these places get "weird" from time to time.
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Re: Ohio, again

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:04 am

timetunneler wrote:

Although I get a bit miffed at your Obama posts... I understand your concern and the need to warn people on him not necessarily being what we think he is. But I like your posts better when you are examining the puppet masters. To me these areas are hotspots because there is something in each of them that is being manipulated. I imagine in Oklahoma it is related to the FAA (I believe it is FAA, customs related?) stuff that is centered there, and Elohim city. In Pennsylvania there are some old money elites and JFK assassination operators. Texas has Bush, racial cults and more JFK stuff. San Diego has a certain racial tensions, Cult/Intel group and defense contracting operations. South Florida has Jeb Bush, drugs and intelligence networks. So there are deeper reasons for why these places get "weird" from time to time.


Well first off, I WANT to love Obama. He appeals to a side of me.

Image

Image

Very few people online or in the media are talking about his modern sense of young humor, the MTV generation. Or how he comes off as genuinely
warm, sit down and watch some tv with you. Obama feels like the kind of President that would literally pass by kids playing Xbox and ask if he could join in. He seems like a remarkable, extrordinary human being to lead us to the new chapter of America.

And that's what breaks my heart...about what I worry about, what I see. I'm not speaking as a "conspiracy theorist", but someone who
deeply can feel that Obama's being installed is literally part of an end game by the elites to begin the final phases of whatever ghastly plan they have for the world. Not some comic book, movie plot, or Alex Jones delusional fantasy. The real deal.

I want to be proven wrong. Oh lordy, I would love to be surprised. *I* want to believe.

And it's not that I *think* he's a trickster, it's that I worry that he...no matter how true his intentions are, will be used to wage a very ugly chapter on the world and America.

As for these things you mentioned, they are all just moving parts of the same global elites.

Why would Oklahoma City involve al Qaeda operatives, neo Nazis, neo Nazi FBI informants, a black Muslim informant and Iraqi nationals?
Because that's how these black ops roll, yo.

There's no "war". Islamic terrorists, neo Nazis, ect are and have been the favored flavor of the globalists for some time...why just look at the arsenal of the Nazis. Black magicians, The Grand Mufti and the Croation Muslim League, the Muslim Brotherhood North Africa Corps.

All these factions you speak of, are mere pawns. All wars are orchestrated, as much as there is genuine animosity and jockeying for position

Right now China and Russia are jockeying for position of top dog in the new world order, along with the US and England. But, the true elites...the black brotherhood, will find a way to get everyone to fight. Order out of chaos.

The occult globalist elite(tm) knows no bounds, and has shown time and time again how great they are at getting people to fight. Fighting over land, race, religion, tribe, money, you name it.
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Re: Ohio, again

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:07 am

8bitagent wrote:Obama feels like the kind of President that would literally pass by kids playing Xbox and ask if he could join in. He seems like a remarkable, extraordinary human being to lead us to the new chapter of America.


I don't disagree - he seems alright to me. But is this not the same trap that the other sector of the American public have been falling into for decades now?

"Well, George seems like the kind of guy I could sit down and have a beer with...

...Sure, when I mention my tractor and he turns it round to how much John Deere have paid into his campaign fund this quarter it pisses me off... And when I'm talking 'bout baseball and he says he used to own a team his daddy bought him, it gets old... but he's only bulling. Guy like that can't really own nothing. He's just simple, is all."

8bitagent wrote:I want to be proven wrong. Oh lordy, I would love to be surprised. *I* want to believe.


I want to believe too. It's Obama for the win anyway. I have no business passing comment on American domestic politics - but... no, I really have no business.
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Postby Fat Lady Singing » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:17 am

timetunneler wrote:
Fat Lady Singing wrote:There's something here, I'm convinced. I googled Zack to discover that a lot of hate sites made a big deal about Zack being a "Zionist," and also that there was some sort of harassment of another scientist, and a "Jewish hoax"... I didn't even want to go to these sites to investigate further, so I can't draw any conclusions. The timeline is intriguing to me... going back to the early 90s... Harris' first arrest...

Am I reaching too far, here?


No you're not. Like 9/11, the anthrax story is another part of the Aryan West, Aran, Zionist eternal game of grab ass.


Yep, exactly. I'd also add that they're probably pawns. You know, there are *so many* pawns in the Great Game, that it makes me wonder where the other pieces on the board are.

Let me see if I can kind of clarify what I was thinking, hypothetically speaking... Three brothers, A, B, and C, grow up at odds with one another; the two-against-one scenario increases the brother C's feelings of persecution and alienation; brother A grows up to be relatively liberal, well-educated, and gets away from the hometown atmosphere; C grows up to become a super-patriot disgusted by A's mildly left leanings; A distances himself from his past as best he can; C begins to resent A's success and education even more; C falls in with, uh, a "bad crowd," locally, who have come into possession of, uh, "certain things," which, coincidentally, A works with; the bad crowd pressures C into leaning on A to gain greater access to certain things; C plays on A's guilt, perhaps, at how A has treated C in the past; A somehow leaves a door open, so to speak, at work, giving the bad crowd their greater access to certain things...

So, you're the FBI. Do you investigate A or C, or both? (B is, for the time being, an unknown).
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Postby cptmarginal » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:00 am

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:IanEye: my take on the anthrax episode was that a certain faction felt left out and were kind of hurt by that.

When a group pulls off a coup, the first thing they want to do after is restore order, their order , as soon as possible.

it always felt like the anthrax episode was one group telling the coup group, "we know who you are, and we want in, now, otherwise chaos might continue for a while. and who really wants that?"


...

Ivins was clearly a patsy. Hatfill too. But the best patsies are not innocents. They are usually just involved enough to make it convincing.


Thanks for posting this, it mirrors exactly what's been going through my head - and thanks for all of the info as well!
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:10 am

cptmarginal wrote:
AhabsOtherLeg wrote:IanEye: my take on the anthrax episode was that a certain faction felt left out and were kind of hurt by that.

When a group pulls off a coup, the first thing they want to do after is restore order, their order , as soon as possible.

it always felt like the anthrax episode was one group telling the coup group, "we know who you are, and we want in, now, otherwise chaos might continue for a while. and who really wants that?"


...

Ivins was clearly a patsy. Hatfill too. But the best patsies are not innocents. They are usually just involved enough to make it convincing.


Thanks for posting this, it mirrors exactly what's been going through my head - and thanks for all of the info as well!


You are very welcome, Captain.

Wish you were called Starbuck.

You are too good a man.
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Postby sunny » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:11 am

Glenn has some good info today on the Social Worker

So much of the public reporting about Ivins has been devoted to depicting him as a highly unstable psychotic who had been issuing extremely violent threats and who had a violent past. But that depiction has been based almost exclusively on the uncorroborated claims of Jean Carol Duley, a social worker (not a psychiatrist or psychologist) who, as recently as last year, was apparently still in college at Hood's College in Frederick, Maryland. Duley's scrawled handwritten complaint against Ivins, seeking a Protective Order, has served as the basis for much of the reporting regarding Ivins' mental state, yet it is hardly the model of a competent or authoritative professional. Quite the opposite.

Duley herself has a history that, at the very least, raises questions about her credibility.
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Postby MinM » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:23 am

An Anthrax Timeline:
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On September 5, Ms. Clarke--lured back into government service by pal Mary Matalin on Vice President Dick Cheney's staff, from a high-paying post as Manhattan office director for the venerable public relations firm of Hill & Knowlton--the former PR chief to Senator John McCain and one-time George Bush (the elder) staffer would divulge to foreign media that the United States, via the Pentagon and the shadowy Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, would begin producing a new and potent strain of anthrax bacteria, and that such plans had been in the works since 1997. The source of the anthrax was to be from Russian stock, and, according to Ms. Clarke, would be used "purely for defensive measures."

At the popular political site FreeRepublic.com, Victoria Clarke posts as "Torie"--a self-proclaimed "statist neocon." The Pentagon's disinformation campaign was already in motion on September 5, 2001, and Victoria Clarke, then employed as Deputy Director for Public Affairs, was its "go-to girl" on "the anthrax question
."...

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On September 11, 2001, Jerome Hauer advised the White House to begin taking Cipro, an antibiotic which is effective against anthrax...

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After the Oct. 5, 2001, death from anthrax exposure of Sun photo editor Robert Stevens

On October 15, 2001, President Bush said, "There may be some possible link" to Bin Laden, adding, "I wouldn't put it past him." Vice President Cheney also said Bin Laden's henchmen were trained "how to deploy and use these kinds of substances, so you start to piece it all together."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_worl ... _on_a.html

October 17, 2001: Top Bush Administration Officials Look to Blame Anthrax Attacks on Al-Qaeda, Iraq, or Russia
http://www.historycommons.org/context.j ... thraxblame

On Oct. 18, 2001, a White House alarm went off indicating that sensors had detected dangerous levels of radioactive, chemical or biological agents. According to Mayer, anyone who had entered the White House situation room, including Cheney, had been exposed...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x3395128

October 18, 2001 (days before ABC News first broadcast their bentonite report) John McCain, on the David Letterman Show:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 385x164521
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