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What is a bailout? Who is being bailed out. Race For Loot
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vigilant
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.jsmineset.com/
House limits constituent e-mails to prevent crash
By Jordy Yager
Posted: 09/30/08 01:16 PM [ET]
The House is limiting e-mails from the public to prevent its websites from crashing due to the enormous amount of mail being submitted on the financial bailout bill.
As a result, some constituents may get a 'try back at a later time' response if they use the House website to e-mail their lawmakers about the bill defeated in the House on Monday in a 205-228 vote.
“We were trying to figure out a way that the House.gov website wouldn’t completely crash,” said Jeff Ventura, a spokesman for the Chief Administrative Office (CAO), which oversees the upkeep of the House website and member e-mail services.
The CAO issued a “Dear Colleague” letter Tuesday morning informing offices that it had placed a limit on the number of e-mails sent via the “Write Your Representative” function of the House website. It said the limit would be imposed during peak e-mail traffic hours.
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vigilant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Watch very carefully the other nations that are simulating the U.S. It says a lot about where the tentacles of the same financial octopus are located. Certain countries had stock market, housing "problems", and also using some the same bailout techniques. Its one big machine, resetting itself, hauling out cash, and replacing it with debt.
China, U.S., France, U.K., Russia, Switzerland, and others but i can't remember them all right now.
France Seeks €300bn Rescue Fund for Europe
October 2nd, 2008
Via: Telegraph:
France heaped pressure on Gordon Brown last night by floating an ambitious plan for a €300 billion (£237 billion) bailout fund to rescue crippled banks across Europe.
As the world held its breath on the fate of America’s $700 billion bank bailout plan, President Sarkozy was seeking the backing of European leaders for his own lifeboat.
Mr Brown also faced demands for action from British banks, furious that the Irish Republic’s unilateral guarantee of all bank savings on Tuesday was robbing them of precious deposits. The British Bankers’ Association, which represents high street banks, said that the move was anti-competitive and that it was raising the issue with Dublin. Some banks would like to see the UK respond with its own explicit guarantee.
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tazmic
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The British Bankers’ Association, which represents high street banks, said that the move was anti-competitive...
Okay that's it, I don't understand any of this. I don't think I ever did.
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vigilant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
tazmic wrote:
Quote:
The British Bankers’ Association, which represents high street banks, said that the move was anti-competitive...
Okay that's it, I don't understand any of this. I don't think I ever did.
Don't be afraid of the strange patterns you see. Don't be afraid of the symbolism. It isn't other worldly, but there are people that prefer you believe it is. You're not crazy, you're just "seeing"...seers don't feed the loosh eaters. Loosh is fear. Loosh eaters don't live in the etheric world, they are flesh and blood humans that benefit from the fear they cause in others. They are not superhuman or ghouls, they just have no empathy for their fellow man.....
Its harvest time bud...This is a historic event so take notice. You are fortunate to live right now and get to witness one of socieities most well kept secrets. More importantly, you are in a position to get your paradigm tweaked so that you can understand it, and not be on the wrong side of it.
The reason you don't understand it is because the stories you hear coming from the mainstream buzz are just crap that has been made up to justify the 69 that is happening. The reason it doesn't make sense is because they tell one story and about the time you think you understand that, they change the story because the one they are telling currently doesn't fit the actions they need to take next.
Example: Paulson said, "We should pay a premium for these assets, because there is no since in disappointing the bankers". Dude....if you had any idea, what they truly meant, it would blow your damn mind. I'm not going to fully explain it, because it would start some conflict, but I will tell you enough for you to understand. Then what happened? They devalued the "next" load of them down to almost nothing and bought them. Know why? Cause you're a mean little feller and we made you mad. Okee doke. We'll do what you say. We'll spend "damn near nothing" on the next load cause why? "You" said so. Ok, you asked for it, and we intend to give you your way, oh yeah....bend over...We are using your money, and buying from ourselves, and we are living in a....uhhhh..what? say it! uhhhhhh...what? OPPOSITE WORLD...one knows, one does not, the space between is what? think.....tick...tock.....tick.......tock.......the rabbit hole. The conversion zone that "big damn crazy money" is made in...
(evil grin)
Learning to think in opposites is crucial to always being "lucky" as opposed to "struggling". Why are people lucky? Reckon they "know" something you don't? Course not. Because if "they" knew, then we would "all" know right? Because there is "somebody" that distributes this information to us right? Wake up! "we would all know if it was true" will get you run over like a turtle and I cannot express enough how dangerous that is. OPPOSITES....ALWAYS CONSIDER THE OPPOSITE If you don't, you will be in the "majority" perspective. Five dogs control 1000 sheep. How? They think differently and use different tactics. The sheep "would all know" if that were true right? Think again....
So are they trash or not? Yes or no? Depends on which load is coming through at the "moment" and what the cargo contains. Oh its not all the same? Heavens no Sally Simpleton, it isn't....(smile) But they won't tell ya that, but they will keep changing stories on ya to fit the "current load" coming through "loot and pilfer" process. Who is gonna hold em for a while? You're gonna hold the junk, and they will hold the good stuff. Cause you had to be rescued see? If you knew what time it was, you wouldn't keep tripping all over yourself and messing up things. They have a hard time cleaning up your mess ya know? Remember those words. Its gonna mean something in a minute...(smile)
They kept switching their tune because at different times they needed to swap their story around to make sure they hauled in the good stuff for free, and shoved the junk off the books and made money on that too by overvaluing it. Why? Cause in reality, you bought the junk from them because they used your money, and bought it from themselves on your behalf, and they got to determine the price you paid, and they wanted it to be high. Backwards from the way it "sounds" to the ear. Rabbit hole talk..... They grabbed your check book and said
"here, let me help you with this. You are going to buy this one dollar watch from me for ten dollars, that will fix your problem, and now you will know what time it is. Also I am buying a ten dollar watch from you for one dollar. Ok? Good...run along........go play. I know you're pissed because we interrupted recess."...... Remembr the time metaphor, cause your gonna see it again it a second. (smile)
Now comes the kicker. You just got screwed two ways to Sunday, but now you are going to get screwed again. You know why? Because they had to "rescue" you by doing this. You are almost out of money, you already got beat up twice, but now you have a pocket full of what? Crappy watches. Now you're gonna suffer because they are going to cause trouble in your life. You will need to be rescued again ya know? Furthermore, if you wouldn't have wanted those watches we sold you in the first place you idiot, you wouldn't be in this shape. So don't whine and complain. We spend all our time "bailing' and "rescuing" humanity and we do the best we can...
That is called getting screwed what? Three ways to Sunday. Third times a charm. The secret is 3. I just told you more, in two paragraphs, than most folks learn in five lifetimes, and that is if they are lucky. I would print it if I were you.
This article with Greenspans quotes in it pretty much sum up what we have been discussing here about credit cycles, jubilee cycle, etc...You are watching a historic event. This is that once in a century period where the golden goose, that doesn't know its a golden goose, is harvested and has its golden eggs taken away from it, and replaced with a sows ear full of debt it will have to work off for the next century.
The Golden Geese would be "us". They are collecting the wool from the sheep herd. They make up all these crazy bogus stories to explain what is happening because if we knew the fruits of our labor over the last century were being plucked from the trees like cherries and popped into their mouths we would not stand for it. The fruits of our labor are being taken, and they are being replaced with debt that we will have to pay off for the next century. Ever heard of 69? Upside down? Turn it around? 69 means more than sexual positions.
Brother man, if people had any idea what all is buried in bibical meanings, childrens stories, tales of the zodiac and myths, etc...it would break em down psychologically if all the info were suddenly dumped into their brain. Their paradigm would crack down the middle and their mind with it. Thats no joke either, cause in some cases it happens when a person suddenly becomes "enlightened" and its more than they can handle. Ever heard the old saying, "It depends if you're on the inside looking out, or the outside looking in?" There are literally two worlds that exist in parallel one with another. I don't mean "quantam physically" speaking. I mean a cultural divide that creates two distinct and opposite realities. These are created by the fact that one side of the divide knows the "game" and the other side does not. Therefore one side knows "both" realities and one side only knows one reality. We live in the reality that does not know both, because we don't know the game.
Put it this way...Lets say I make up a religion, which has been done from time beginning. I tell you that there is a grey bearded man in the sky, that is gonna kick your ass and burn you to death with fire forever, if you don't bring your ass to me once a week and put some money in the offering plate. You must do this because I am the link to God and he and I chat. I'm gonna talk to him for you, and tell him you are a good boy, and please don't burn your ass to death forever. Because see, you are a "sinner" and you were born a sinner. As soon as you fell out of your mamma and hit the ground God decided your days were numbered because you had already pissed him off. For what? Being here I guess. That way you can't escape coming to me because no matter how hard you try, you got that darned old bad luck of beng a sinner. One person knows its all made up, and the other does not. One person lives his life trying to outrun this mortal sin and takes his money to God's intermediary to try and get bumped up on the "saved" list. One of you is on the inside looking out, and the other is on the outside looking in. One of you spend your days toiling in the fields, and one of you sit and scrape money from the collection plate.
Multiply that concept. Spread it around. Especially financially. Most of what you hear and see around you isn't real. Its all made up. Its part of a big cycle of events that repeats itself over and over. "history repeats itself". Heard it right? Its true. Why is that? Gods will? Contrivance of man? Manmade cycles that correspond with celestial dates that coincide with movements of stars, planets, seasons, etc...Why? Because this has been played out on humanity for thousands of years. They didn't have watches back then. They told time by the seasons, stars, planets, etc...
A lot of these tales, myths, stories that include dieties and scenarios that allude to the heavenly bodies, are cryptically coded tales that tell of this human drama.
So a few people in the know are livng by celestial time, and most of us live by the clock on the wall because we have to be at work. Since they don't work, clocks don't mean much to them unless they need to get out and run around in our world for a while. So...."Do you know what time it is?"......."You don't even know time it is!" Heard that? Means this. Two people stand talking. One knows celestial time and one does not. The one that does not is expressing his opinion on a topic. Most likely his opinion is based on the fact that he doesn't know he is livng in a manmade contrived reality backed by bogus stories and facts. The person that knows celestial time knows this person has no clue, so he says laughingly and very amused, "you don't even know what time it is'.....
Knowing what time it is, ain't easy bubba.....
So..."It is on earth, as it is in heaven" Also...."as above, so below'
Human life, the repeating cycles of humanity, history repeating itself, are a mirror of what? They are a mirror of the movements of the zodiac, stars, planets. Learning this coded system of events is "damn" hard. There is a ton of crap floating around and its hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some of it is deliberate misinfo by the "watchers" or the "people in the know" that live in and see both worlds, and some disinfo is just misinterpreted information by people that don't understand it and think they do.
There is a "lot" of foresight buried in these few comments from Greenspan. I haven't had time to run it through Alice's Looking Glass in my head yet and assimilate it.
At first glance I am thinking that it might go along with the fact that while we were watching the word "bailout" and fighting over it, they pushed 1 trillion dollars worth of debt on the books of the Treasury for future military expenses. They also pushed another 620 billion dollars worth of debt on the books for the bailout. They just didn't make a big deal out of it. They simply did it without asking anybody anything. So they got there 700 bills, and then some. Not to mention the fact that tens of billions at a time they have been pushing debt on the books for a good while now. I take this article to mean "mission accomplished, we got it taken care of, the valuable assets we artifically devalued are on the books of the Fed."
If that is correct, I could see the bailout bill not being necessary, and the people getting their hollow victory. I think that all depends on how badly those 4 words in the bailout legislation are wanted or needed. Which are 700 bil. AT ANY ONE TIME. I'm not sure how critical getting those words down in ink are to them.
It could also mean, "we haven't gotten enough of the valuable assets we devalued and we are in the process of looting, and getting it on the books, and enough debt has not yet been shoved off, but don't you worry, we have a plan, and shortly we are gonna make a huge transfer. Its gonna be ok my elite buddies, don't you worry and panic cause Greenie is gonna make sure it happens for us."
They need "spread" to work in. I haven't had time to examine it and determine if its been accomplished. Quite frankly, i'm not sure if I could.
It means one or the other. I just don't know exactly how much "loot" is in the kitty in artificially devalued assets, thus no way of knowing how much more debt needs to be shoved off on the books of the Treasury.
Above I said they were hauling cash and replacing it with debt, which is true in practice, but in literal terms they are hauling computer entries on to their books that have been devalued, and shoving computer entries off the books that are junk, but have been given inflated values. Over valued junk allows more money to be borrowed by the Treasury which allows more debt to be placed on the books of the Treasury. The undervalued assets will now "swell" and suddenly "pop" back up to their former value on the Fed's books because they are grossly undervalued.
Hence, in the article I pointed out, the Fed's books are "exploding" instead of "imploding".
Don't be surprised if the bailout bill doesn't pass, and americans cheer their victory, when in reality all went as planned. Just more magic.
Its damn obvious that they do not need a bailout bill to accomplish this task of looting and swapping debt for value. They are doing it right in broad daylight right? Yes they are. What does that mean? It means something doesn't it?
This is what it means to me. Since they don't need a bailout bill to swap debt and value, if this bailout bill is pushed through in spite of the fact that they can obviously do this debt and value swap anyway, then it must contain something of value other than an ability to shuffle debt and value around right? Obviously. What is it?
I can only see this one. One would be those 4 words "AT ANY ONE TIME". Meaning they have a 700 billion dollar credit card to use the treasury as they please. In essence what would that be equivalent to?
When I put my rabbit hole hat on, and get the tin foil adjusted just right, apparently it would mean that these cycles would not be as important in the future maybe. I'm still thrashing that one out in my mind. With a 700 billion dollar credit card, as fast as we work and pile up the value, it can can be extracted immediately, and then be replaced with debt immediately. The Golden Goose is then harvested on a regular basis and the golden eggs don't build up in the nest. That would also give the "main family" who issued the credit card a hell of a lot of power. They won't have to wait a century for their big old golden egg to drop. It will be forming all the time.
Greenspan says a "lot" here, by saying a little, but i'm not sure yet "exactly" what he is saying.....ya know?....just sayin.......(smile)
Greenspan Says Markets to Recover as Investors Return (Update1)
By Scott Lanman and John Brinsley
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said financial markets and the economy will recover ``sooner rather than later'' from the worst turmoil in seven decades.
``Trust will eventually reemerge as investors dip hesitantly back into the marketplace,'' Greenspan said today in a speech at Georgetown University's law school in Washington. ``From that point, history tells us, financial and economic revival sets in. I suspect it will be sooner rather than later.''
Greenspan urged lawmakers last week to back ``extensive'' measures to tackle the worst financial crisis since the 1930s and head off a recession. The U.S. Senate passed a $700 billion financial-market rescue package yesterday loaded with inducements for the House of Representatives to approve the measure following its rejection of an earlier version Sept. 29.
``We are living through the type of wrenching financial crisis that comes along only once in a century,'' Greenspan said today. ``Financial markets freeze up as an excess of fear displaces a protracted period of what some might call irrational exuberance. Eventually the market freeze will thaw as frightened investors take tentative steps towards reengagement with risk.''
Greenspan, 82, who served 18 years as Fed chief, took office just before the 1987 stock-market crash. He led the central bank during two eight-month-long recessions, the Asian financial crisis, the 2001 terrorist attacks and the bursting of the Internet bubble.
Deepening Crisis
He spoke amid signs the crisis was deepening. Corporate short-term borrowing plummeted 5.6 percent, the most on record, to the lowest amount outstanding in three years, the Fed said today. Separately, the cost of borrowing in dollars for three months in London rose for a fourth day as banks hoarded cash.
Greenspan, while not commenting today on the rescue bill, spoke from a text about the importance of property rights at a conference entitled, ``Our Courts and Corporate Citizenship.'' He didn't take audience questions.
``Broken market ties among banks, pension and hedge funds and all types of non-financial businesses, will become reestablished, and our complex economy, that has the capacity to produce a fifth of the world's goods and services, will reemerge,'' he said.
The House may vote tomorrow afternoon on the rescue bill.
In a statement e-mailed to lawmakers Sept. 25, signed by Greenspan, former Treasury Secretary George Shultz and Stanford University economist Robert Hall, the three economists wrote that ``the only way that financial institutions can continue to function is for the government
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Last edited by vigilant on Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:04 am; edited 2 times in total
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Foote Hertz
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 83
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it Howdy Doody time?
vigilant wrote:
I'm not going to fully explain it, because it would start some conflict...
There you go again. Teasing. I appreciate all of the time and thought you've put into this, but now your hermeneutics of this crisis shell game is acting like a three card monte binge, and still I like it. I like it, and I'm born every minute. Twisted Evil
Anyhoo, my response to the gubmit and the they, i.e. them, is: citizen's arayest! citizen's arayest! ... and also "Ooooh, I'm scared." (thanks Jeff)
on edit: this is my 77th lousy post
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vigilant
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
More games........now he wants to pay more for it than its worth again...
Paulson's Reasons for Delaying Day of Reckoning: Jonathan Weil
Commentary by Jonathan Weil
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- If you think this bailout is expensive, just wait until you see the next one.
The $700 billion rescue plan approved by the U.S. Senate won't fix the core problem with the nation's ailing financial institutions. And it almost guarantees that you and I will have to pony up for an even costlier bailout someday, maybe soon, if the House of Representatives passes it tomorrow.
Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson has correctly identified the quandary: Lots of shaky banks and insurance companies are showing strangely high values for assets that aren't worth squat in the market. Many need more capital and can't raise it. And he's right in saying the outlook is grim if we don't get this fixed.
What's stunning is how little the taxpayers would get in return for their money under Paulson's package, and how illusory much of the banks' newly minted capital would be.
Under the plan, Treasury would buy some companies' troubled assets at above-market values. To boost their capital, Paulson would have to pay the companies more than what their balance sheets say the assets are worth. Then other companies would use the rigged prices to write up, or avoid writing down, the values of similar holdings on their own books.
So, the taxpayers get hosed on the asset purchases. Other banks use the trumped-up prices to cook their books. And investor confidence supposedly is restored.
That brings us to this question: Why would a smart guy like Hank Paulson -- the former boss of Goldman Sachs -- advance such a dumb, shady plan? Let us count the reasons:
No. 1: It delays our national reckoning until after the presidential election.
Paulson first floated a bailout Sept. 18, at the very hour when shares of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley looked like they might go into a death spiral. It's not so much a bailout, as it is a timeout. He had to follow up with something, anything, to stop the freefall from resuming. It didn't have to make sense.
So it doesn't. The plan is about creating the illusion of stronger financial institutions, not strengthening them.
The banks know this. Otherwise, they would have stopped charging each other near-record rates for three-month loans by now. The reason they haven't is because they're still afraid their customers -- other banks -- might go broke.
No. 2: The reckoning will be worse than you can imagine.
If Paulson were serious about recapitalizing rickety U.S. banks, he would infuse them with hundreds of billions of dollars of fresh government money, in exchange for ownership stakes. And if he wanted to create market liquidity for all those troubled assets on their books, he would be ordering banks to disclose everything there is to know about them, so Mr. Market could figure out their present value.
He can't let that happen. Not now. If everyone could see how much the toxic waste is worth, the writedowns would be so huge that many banks would have to be declared insolvent.
Better to let the next administration deal with the clean- up. The trouble is, the longer the government waits to address the banks' lack of capital, the worse it gets, barring a miracle.
No. 3: He's helping his friends.
Is there any doubt? Let's see.
As of yesterday, Morgan Stanley Chief Executive John Mack owned 2.75 million shares of his company's stock, valued at about $67 million. If Mack can get Morgan Stanley to trade reams of sketchy paper for billions of dollars of our Treasury's cash, without diluting any of his stake in the company, who benefits?
Paulson would have us believe it's you.
No. 4: There's an excellent chance the Congress will pass it. Leave someone else to figure out the costs another day.
(Jonathan Weil is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)
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vigilant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Financial-Rescue Bill Gains Support in U.S. House (Update4)
By Laura Litvan and Brian Faler
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. lawmakers who helped defeat a financial-market rescue package this week are reconsidering their votes amid signs the crisis on Wall Street is spreading.
At least eight lawmakers, including Republican Zach Wamp of Tennessee and Democrat Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, now say they would support the measure. Four others say they may switch their ballots before the House votes again, at about 12:30 p.m. tomorrow, on the measure, which failed by a dozen votes Sept. 29.
The legislation allows the government to buy troubled assets from financial institutions rocked by record home foreclosures. It contains provisions favored by House Republicans, including $149 billion in tax breaks, a higher limit on federal bank- deposit insurance and securities law changes.
couldn't wait to start passing it out to people who can flip it over and turn it around, wonder why? damn these grifters..
It also reiterates securities regulators' authority to suspend asset-valuing rules that corporate executives blame for fueling the crisis. The Senate last night approved the $700 billion bill, 74-25.
(thats comical: "you had authority not to scam the public last time that you did not use, you have the same authority this time as we reiterate that you do, that is all"....that outta stop all this money flying outta our pockets for sure..."not")
``I feel very comfortable about where we stand,'' House Majority Whip James Clyburn, the Democrats' top vote-counter, told reporters. ``Of course, I felt very comfortable on Monday.''
Swaying Gerlach
The add-ons helped sway lawmakers such as Jim Gerlach, as did phone calls from his suburban Philadelphia constituents. Many of his supporters shifted from opposing the bailout to supporting it following the record 778-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average after the House's 228-205 defeat of the bill Sept. 29.
U.S. stocks fell today. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index slid 46.78, or 4 percent, to 1,114.28. The Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 348.22, or 3.2 percent, closing at 10,482.72.
Lawmakers switching their votes to yes from no also include Democrats Shelley Berkley of Nevada and Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona and Republicans Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida, John Shadegg of Arizona and Jim Ramstad of Minnesota. At least three other Republicans, Gerlach and Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania and Patrick Tiberi of Ohio, and Democrat Bill Pascrell of New Jersey, may vote yes on the measure.
At a meeting of Democrats tonight, Representative John Lewis of Georgia, who serves under Clyburn as a party whip, announced to the caucus that we would switch his vote from no to yes and gave a speech urging others to do the same to help boost the flagging economy, a Democratic aide who spoke on condition of anonymity said.
Hoyer, Blunt
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer spoke by phone tonight with Republican Whip Roy Blunt to see if there were enough votes to pass the measure. Both agreed to go ahead with the vote, according to Stacey Bernards, a spokeswoman for Hoyer. Clyburn, Blunt's Democratic counterpart, said Democrats have more votes for the bill than the 140 they garnered on Sept. 29.
``There is a broad feeling that the economy is at risk and that average Americans will be badly hurt if the economy continues to go downhill, and that action is necessary,'' Hoyer said.
Debate will begin at 9 a.m. tomorrow or perhaps earlier, said House Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter, a New York Democrat.
Minority Leader John Boehner said the rescue plan won't come up for a vote until leaders are confident it will pass. ``We're getting there, one at a time,'' said Boehner, declining to say whether he had the votes yet.
Republicans also cited the economy as the main reason they were switching their vote.
Credit `Breakdown'
Shadegg, who opposed the measure earlier this week, said on Bloomberg Television that he'll now support it, citing a ``breakdown'' in credit markets that makes it difficult for small businesses to pay employees. Ros-Lehtinen said in a statement that she will back the bailout because it boosts Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. limits and adds tax breaks for families.
(he needs to put he crack pipe down if thats the best she could come up with)
Republican leaders suggested the market reaction may spur some in their ranks to change their minds on the bill.
``The big drop'' in the Dow Index ``really had a chilling effect on a lot of our members and a lot of their constituents,'' Boehner said on Fox. With the Senate's changes, the legislation ``has a much better chance'' to pass this time, he said.
(yeah we know H.P. wasn't on plunge lever stopping her dead on 777 cause that would be a fact, i mean a conspiracy theory)
Companies are also pushing Congress to pass the measure, saying the curtailment of credit may result in job cuts.
Marriott International Inc., announcing its third-quarter earnings, urged Congress to ``quickly'' approve the package. Marriott said thousands of jobs are at risk because companies can't borrow money.
Automakers said tougher loan standards partly accounted for a 27 percent plunge in U.S. auto sales last month.
Commercial Paper
The market for commercial paper, short-term borrowing by businesses, suffered the biggest one-week drop on record, the Federal Reserve said today. The amount of commercial paper outstanding fell by $94.9 billion, or 5.6 percent, during the week ended Oct. 1. (now we get to meat of the problem)
Yet the addition of the tax cuts and special breaks for companies such as an Oregon-based maker of wooden arrows and Virgin Islands rum-makers may turn off some deficit-wary Democrats, who supported the original rescue package but don't want tax cuts without offsetting spending reductions or tax increases.
(did he say that?)
Representative Mike Ross, an Arkansas Democrat who supported the original bailout measure, said he didn't know how the so- called Blue Dog coalition of fiscally conservative Democrats would vote on the version with the Senate's add-ons.
``I don't even know what I'll do,'' Ross said.
So far, Democrats who may be put off by the added tax cuts haven't said they're switching positions. In all, 140 Democrats backed the bill along with 65 Republicans.
Blue Dogs
Two dozen of the 44 Blue Dogs voted for the bailout on Sept. 29. Four of them said yesterday they'll continue to back the bill, even though their caucus derided the Senate's tax measures as irresponsible as recently as Sept. 29. Another, Allen Boyd of Florida, said today he was undecided after voting for the measure earlier this week.
The extra spending on federal projects is also repelling some Republicans.
Representative Spencer Bachus, an Alabama Republican who supported the bailout plan on Sept. 29, called the Senate version ``a travesty,'' saying in an interview that he is ``strongly considering'' voting against it.
About a dozen Republicans were seeking to amend the measure to allow the Treasury to spend $250 billion immediately and require a separate vote by Congress before any more of the $700 billion can be used to buy troubled assets. The amendment would have taken out special tax breaks.
(I thought we had an urgent crisis and needed to buy some toxic waste? and 250 out of 700 is "extras" already? people wonder why we are so suspicious and "paranoid" and call this "theatre"?)
`Purchased With Pork'
``Votes should not be purchased with pork,'' Ohio Republican Steven LaTourette told reporters.
The Democratic-controlled Rules Committee said no amendments would be allowed.
The tax provisions are anchored by a $62 billion measure that stops the alternative minimum tax from taking effect for about 24 million American households this year. The levy, designed to target millionaires, now affects households with incomes as low as $50,000 and would cost each household about $2,000 this year if Congress fails to act.
A second clause would renew dozens of expired tax breaks relied on by businesses, including a research tax credit worth billions to thousands of companies such as CA Inc. and Merck & Co. Other provisions include a tax break for companies that finance equipment sales overseas, such as General Electric Co.
(that was easy, "here Merck have some cash since you only make more profit than the oil industry, we'll increase taxes on the folks for ya)
The third prong would renew about $17 billion worth of incentives for companies that produce energy from renewable sources such as solar and wind.
Not Budging
Some of the 133 Republicans who opposed the measure aren't budging.
``The bill that they are going to send back is the same bill that I voted against,'' Representative Joe Barton of Texas told Bloomberg Television yesterday.
President George W. Bush, whose administration originated the bailout proposal, made ``very productive'' phone calls to wavering lawmakers this morning, his spokesman said. Spokesman Tony Fratto said Bush talked to some lawmakers who had switched positions and the administration was ``optimistic'' the measure would pass.
Bruce Josten, the top lobbyist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, told reporters he met with Bush today, and the president ``pulled out a list his staff had given him'' of lawmakers to call.
``We are in a full-court press,'' Josten said.
To contact the reporters on this story: Laura Litvan in Washington at llitvan@bloomberg.net; Brian Faler in Washington at faler@bloomberg.net.
I swear....all this drama, H.P. jerking the market around hollering "be afraid, be very afraid"...there is no lengths these folks won't go to in an effort to huckster some cash....look at all the drama plays they have put on for us...surreal
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zhivkov
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
vigilant-I was wondering if you had an overall feeling for the global economy in anywhere from now until three months from now. Do you think there will be an overall depression globally lasting for years? Do you think if there is a collapse it will be short term and a whole new monetary/fiscal policy put in place worldwide? Do you think there are some countries that will emerge from this meltdown, if it occurs, in a much better place? Sorry for so many questions and thanks for this thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Not really. In the last few years, this new bunch that is in charge has been heavy handed with the "order out of chaos" theory. That widens the parameters of the possibilities so far that its really hard. In years past during calmer times it was easier. I could use price, time, volume, in sectors and get a feel for which way things were drifting. Things don't drift as often anymore. They have a habit of "lurching" more often these days.
I still had the use the tinfoil rabbit hole hat but there were also indicators that were fairly reliable that are not as reliable now. That leaves the tinfoil rabbit hole hat as the lead indicator, and this gang driving right now is enough to short out the antennas sometimes on the tinfoil rabbit hole hat.
Due to the computerized nature of the economic system these days, it is very easy to change the dynamics in the economy and society in a short period of time. In the past when powerful people wanted to inject cash into a situation to create change it took a while to get it accomplished.
Not anymore. They can stick a hot poker of cash into something almost instantaneously and watch it wiggle in reaction in real time. Computers also exponentially increase the amount of money you can move in a short amount of time.
Those factors considered, coupled with the unpredictably of their users, makes prediction harder. This crew at the helm now plays huge games. They play them quickly. They have a blueprint, and I don't know exactly what it is. With things the way they are right now, the sky isn't even the limit with this gang......
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is a good example too. There have been several asset managers that have said they were purposely and bogusly forced out of business. They said they were forced to let the Fed value their assets with the "fair value" rules. Fed made them mark their assets down to a ridiculous price that forced an insolvency "technically" on paper regardless of the true asset value. B. Stearns manager and Dimon from J.P. Morgan said "we have been a victim of violence."
This article is on the same lines. "Silent" bank run....mmmm...since they get their money from the Fed like every other bank, and suddenly they couldn't get any from the Fed or any of the participating banks, looks like they stiff armed this one too.
Henry P. keeps jumping around on his pricing of these assets and they are picking and choosing what "they" want, and as soon as this bailout bill passes they are gonna dump the crap that is "truly toxic" right on our books.
Their books are fat with no telling what sort of cash from this deal. How bad will our treasury books be when they dump the nasty stuff on us? No way to know.....
Obviously these people don't play either and it makes things so wild there is just no telling what all could happen. Whatever happens will also be reflected in the markets....
Wachovia Faced a ‘Silent’ Bank Run; FDIC Forced Sale
October 2nd, 2008
Via: Charlotte Observer:
On Friday, with its stock plunging 27 percent, Wachovia experienced a “silent run” on deposits, but the bigger worry for regulators was that other banks wouldn’t provide the Charlotte bank with necessary short-term funding when it opened for business Monday, sources familiar with the situation told the Observer.
With Wachovia already looking for a merger partner, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., in consultation with other regulators, required the bank to reach a sale to Citigroup on Monday morning.
The FDIC, for the first time, used legislative authority created in 1991 to help it deal with a “very large complex bank failure” on short notice. It requires approval from heavy hitters – two-thirds of FDIC board members, two-thirds of Federal Reserve board members as well as the Treasury secretary, who must consult with the president.
“When Wachovia opened Monday it would not have had a source of liquidity,” a source familiar with the situation said. “It really could not have opened under those circumstances. That’s why (the FDIC) put together the assistance package.”
The new details show the precarious situation Wachovia faced over the weekend as it rushed to find a suitor, even as Congress debated a possible bailout plan. Intense negotiations in New York included a decision by Wells Fargo to pass on a deal Sunday and frequent consultations with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the bank’s primary regulator, and the FDIC, sources said. In the end, the FDIC, which insures customer deposits, forged the deal because it has “the pocketbook,” a source said.
In the resulting agreement, Citigroup agreed to buy Wachovia’s banking operations and most of its assets, with assistance from the FDIC. The agency will pick up losses above $42 billion on a $312 billion loan book in exchange for $12 billion in Citi securities.
Inside Wachovia, executives started noticing customers withdrawing money on Friday morning, following the failure of Washington Mutual on Thursday. “The so-called silent run on the bank – it’s real,” Carlos Evans, Wachovia’s wholesale banking executive, said in an interview. “When Congress failed to pass the ($700 billion bailout) proposal, when WaMu collapsed, you could see the money flowing. My computer screen was lighting up.”
Starting Friday morning, Evans said, businesses and institutions with large accounts started withdrawing money to lower their balances to below the federally insured $100,000 limit.
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zhivkov
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for looking at my questions vigilant. I think what you said in the first paragraph answers a lot. Much uncertainty and a lot of order out of chaos coming I think. What 'order' I really wish I knew. Thanks again and great thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote
U.S. Congressman: “I’ve seen members turn to each other and say if we don’t pass this bill, we’re going to have martial law in the United States.”
October 3rd, 2008
WARNING: This is not a recommendation to buy, sell or hold any financial instruments.
It’s almost certainly going to pass the House. If it doesn’t, however, you probably won’t be able to move your assets out of the U.S. You might not even be able access your bank or brokerage accounts at all for some period of time.
Again, if it doesn’t pass, expect a banking holiday.
Via: Baltimore Sun:
The Senate voted reluctantly but solidly in favor of a modified $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan last night, but it remained uncertain whether the legislation - even with a carefully designed package of tax breaks - would withstand the fierce crosswinds of liberal and conservative resistance in the House later this week.
The measure passed the Senate 74-25, with a majority of Democrats and Republicans voting in favor - among them presidential nominees Barack Obama and John McCain. The centerpiece of the legislation gives the government the authority to buy up billions of dollars of the toxic assets, primarily mortgage-backed securities, that have poisoned financial markets and threaten to contaminate the rest of the economy.
…
The tax breaks and accounting rule changes for Hollywood were seen as aimed at two Southern California Democrats - Reps. Adam Schiff and Brad Sherman - who voted against the plan. Sherman, who led the defection of a group of Democratic skeptics, insisted he would not be enticed to vote for the rescue plan.
“The one thing that’s been proven is the absolute fear-mongering that’s being used to drive us is false,” Sherman said. “I’ve seen members turn to each other and say if we don’t pass this bill, we’re going to have martial law in the United States.”
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote
zhivkov wrote:
Thanks for looking at my questions vigilant. I think what you said in the first paragraph answers a lot. Much uncertainty and a lot of order out of chaos coming I think. What 'order' I really wish I knew. Thanks again and great thread.
There was something I didn't say earlier in response to your question. I wasn't sure how to word it at the time.
The most useful indicator I have found for predicting future activity, where the current regime is concerned, is patterns in the willingness and ability to create and use tools. My definition of tools is practically anything that can be used or exploited to enhance a desire or agenda. Money, people, laws, weapons, media, etc....whatever. The more willingness there is to create "specialty" tools, (things that fall down abruptly) the more likely they are to use every tool available for its intended use and other uses. Follow through, did they build a tool and leave it laying around or was it used? etc...
In times past regimes would have access to tools they only used to a degree or didn't even use at all. They were reluctant a lot of the time to use them because of the harsh effect it may have.
So far, lack of follow through in using available tools has not been something I have observed. They have been used aggressively. Ability to create, and willingness to use specialty tools, seems high on the priority list in the last decade. We are seeing it now with these failures in the financial industry. All is not as it appears. That is becoming more evident everyday. Institutions were "helped" out of business so they could be acquired.
That being said, I am looking at the only tools in the inventory that have not been aggressively used as the most likely direction this will go. Patriot Act, FISA, Homegrown Terr. Legislation, etc....
If they don't aggressively use them, it will be unusual. Its always possible they could be "just in case" tools, but that is not the pattern of the current power structure. Their pattern is to aggressively use and create, and definately to use to maximum effectiveness...
so....mmmmmmmm........ya know?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote
right on schedule. the other financial arms of the same octopus are reacting on que. i'm just wondering how far down on the chain they plan to go. will control of the larger banks, which also indirectly means control of the smaller regional banks be enough, or do they intend to get the regionals too? If a story comes out that a regional is in trouble I would say that answer is yes, they will get most all of those too. When this is all done, and is all connected, there will be no world rival. This is the construction of the nwo guys. You're watching the architects put it all together right here.....You're one of the few in the whole world that realizes and is watching in real time.....
France, Germany clash on financial rescue
Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:50:27 GMT
By Huw Jones and Paul Taylor
http://www.jsmineset.com/
BRUSSELS, Oct 1 (Reuters) - France and Germany were at loggerheads on Wednesday over the idea of a U.S.-style financial rescue fund for Europe as EU governments went their separate ways in response to the global credit crisis.
The European Commission appealed for more consistency in deposit guarantee schemes and stronger pan-European financial supervision, but the apparent discord between Paris and Berlin underlined the difficulty of finding a common approach.
French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde said in a German newspaper interview that a "European safety net" could be needed to prevent a bank in a smaller EU country from going bankrupt.
But Chancellor Angela Merkel said Germany "cannot and will not issue a blank cheque for all banks, regardless of whether they behave in a responsible manner or not".
A European government source said Paris had floated the idea of a 300 billion euro ($425 billion) EU rescue fund ahead of a meeting of leaders of the four big European powers and top EU officials tentatively set for Saturday in Paris.
But Lagarde told reporters: "There is no such thing. There is nothing of the sort," when asked about the report.
The German Finance Ministry said: "The government completely disagrees with these plans."
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said he was working closely with French President Nicolas Sarkozy to present proposals to the leaders in Paris.
More...
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When 700 bil. is needed for an extreme emergency bailout, and 250 bil. is quickly designated for federal "extras" what does that say? It says this crisis is shaping up to look like what I thought it was..."not" a crisis. Its a consolidation through takeover. Also, asset managers report due to the "fair pricing" rules they were forced to undervalue their assets to a point that "technically", the "rules", forced their books to fit the definition of insolvency, when in reality the assets were worth much more. I would say evidence of their claims lay in the fact that we have not had more foreclosures than we have had. Also many of those foreclosures were a result of interest rates on adjustable rate mortages being raised beyond a persons "known" ability to pay. This is a pattern that is becoming clearer and clearer. It says something...it speaks.....
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Part of the bailout legislation. Foreboding of gas shortages? Its amazing sometimes how these little musings end up connected to something these days...This legislation is so full of "others" and pork it is crazy. What does this tell you?
I've had this odd feeling that sometime in the coming future lack of gasoline will be used as a mechanism to inhibit travel in "certain" situations. This legislation in the "emergency" bailout bill.....foreboding of gas shortages in the future? Sometimes these musings are on target...who knows....just seems weird....
205 (Page 205 in the link above)
1 SEC. 211. TRANSPORTATION FRINGE BENEFIT TO BICYCLE
2 COMMUTERS.
3 (a) IN GENERAL.—Paragraph (1) of section 132(f)
4 is amended by adding at the end the following:
5 ‘‘(D) Any qualified bicycle commuting re
6imbursement.’’.
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The market for commercial paper, short-term borrowing by businesses, suffered the biggest one-week drop on record, the Federal Reserve said yesterday. The amount of commercial paper outstanding fell by $94.9 billion, or 5.6 percent, during the week ended Oct. 1.
Interesting coincidence considering that the banking industry in half the civilized world is being consolidated under the same financial umbrella. Possibly a reaction to the coming consolidation of their banks.
Eventually, I would say that the chances of a singular currency for this mega giant are pretty good. At least per continent anyway. Perhaps all of north america consolidated, and European currency consolidation into one. When is anybodys guess. I wouldn't think this particular lack of demand for gov. scrip signals its immediate coming but its just been on my mind lately. This lack of demand for government scrip is interesting too though. Might signal a shift in the tide. Gov. paper might be getting dumped in preparation to buy gold. If so it signals an event of some sort that will precipitate and trigger a financial turn. What would be anybodys guess. Maybe nothing, but these musings are the way I find things......
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news? pid=20601087&sid=a1J33oVKDymw&refer=home
commercial paper chart, looks like it fell of a building
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/chart?h=1 ... TOTS%3AIND
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Jim's wondering the same thing.......
Jim Sinclair's Commentary
A key reason why central banks want to hold onto gold is the instability of their most common reserve asset, the dollar.
Central banks in Europe favour gold as crisis unfolds
Published: October 03, 2008, 00:13
London: Sales of gold by European central banks are likely to be lower than expected over the next year as the global banking crisis boosts bullion's appeal as a "safe" reserve asset.
And banks elsewhere in the world, most notably in Asia and the Middle East, may even become buyers of gold in an attempt to diversify their reserves away from the dollar, analysts say.
Under the terms of the Central Bank Gold Agreement, signed in 1999 by key European institutions including Germany's Bundesbank and the European Central Bank and renewed in 2004, members can sell up to 500 tonnes of gold a year.
But in the fourth year of the latest agreement, which ended on Friday, sales fell well short of this ceiling, to just over 357 tonnes. With banks worried by the outlook for the financial sector, sales could be even lower in the final year of the pact.
More...
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Considering what I have seen when I focus on the way assets were priced in this mortage "crisis"...if this happens, it'll be because it was desired, not because it couldn't be prevented. If you read what I posted about Lehman disappearing off the map of the financial globe, and they seem to have plenty of cash still and are busy restructuring "somehow".......well.........says what it says doesn't it? Jim has to realize it, guess he's being coy and flying under the radar.
Jim Sinclair's Commentary
They just realized this?
IMF Says Financial Turmoil Now "Full Blown Crisis"
10/02/08 11:30 am (EST)
(CEP News) - According to a first glance of the IMF's Global Economic Outlook, the financial turmoil has now been upgraded to a "full blown crisis", and strong action is needed to counter it.There is a substantial likelihood of a severe economic downturn in the United States, although Europe may be partially insulated against further shocks.
As a consequence, the IMF called on governments across the globe to take strong action to "deal with the stress and support the restoration of financial system capital."
In an interview with Reuters on Sept. 30, IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn said the U.S. Congress must act urgently and approve the $700 billion rescue package. He said even if the plan is not perfect, it's better than nothing.
Strauss-Kahn also said Europe needs to develop a plan for its own financial crisis.
More...
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I have a hard time believing that Jim and his bunch haven't noticed the pricing of these mortage assets. Maybe he hasn't delved into it, but it isn't that hard to see. He is coy like that sometimes though and maybe he doesn't to get involved. I have no doubt Europe is getting ready to consolidate too, but its not quite what it all seems......
http://www.jsmineset.com/
Dear CIGAs,
THE PROBLEM IS FAR FROM OVER...EUROPE IS THE NEXT BIG TROUBLE SPOT FOR THE WORLD BANKING CRISIS
According to our calculations, the major global central banks European, U.K., U.S. and others added about $1.8 trillion of cash liquidity to the global banking system in the last week. The $700 billion U.S. Treasury's bailout plan that the U.S. Congress will vote on tomorrow is symbolism along with action. There will be many more "bailouts" before this is finished.
I predict that the public will soon become jaded to bailouts, but that they will continue to happen in the U.S. and elsewhere. This is not an enjoyable thing to say, they are not even come close to liquidating all the bad debts in the global banking system.
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Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
by bubblefunk » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:37 pm 
