Please save my marriage

by **Dreams End** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:18 pm

Thank you SW...what well written advice. Her case is a little odd. First off, it was less than 2 years ago that she broke down and ceased to function. And it was a full year after that that I diagnosed her as DID. Yep....she'd been withholding some important info from her therapists...about hearing a variety of voices in her head. They would argue and laugh at her and shout at each other...I'm sure you know how that goes. The trauma that led to this is vague at best. she was convinced of inappropriate touching sorts of things from her father and I think she still is thinking that but has very few memories. Her parents (now divorced) immediately offered up (after I explained things to the family about why she wasn't talking to them...done VERY diplomatically as we really didn't have much info just her aversion to talking to them) the idea that this may have begun when she was about 4 or so and was very constipated. (I doubt what follows is triggering, but people subject to triggering probably shouldn't come to this forum!) They claim that they were told to use suppositories on her and that they did so for a year and she always fought, making the whole affair very traumatic. I do know that her own daughter had the same problem (but didn't receive suppositories) and my own nephew did (he did receive suppositories but didn't make a fuss.) I would assume that such suppositories would be slickly coated, so if there was any struggle it would have been to the idea and not pain. She does have memories of constipation later in childhood. (sorry for this graphic stuff but there are several "experts" on DID on this forum so might as well take advantage.) She traces the development of her first alter, Whisper, a child alter, to a time she was four and was not allowed to go out and play. Her mother's cruel punishment was that, since she was acting like a baby (not sure of the issue...maybe more toilet stuff?) she was to wear diapers and go to bed. Her thinking now is that she learned to dissociate during the suppository stuff and had a first alter split to go out and play while she had to stay in bed, humiliated. Whisper is certainly a playful one (and she bites!) I don't know what to make of all this. The whole suppository thing sounded fishy to me...a full YEAR of this trauma and the pediatrician couldn't come up with another plan? I think I know what was going on here, but it's pretty awful to think about. Even if those fears are untrue, if the whole suppository deal was true, it showed some bad parenting. I was disturbed however, when her mom wrote to me that when they had taken my wife to see a therapist at this time (age 3? 4? not sure) the therapist had diagnosed her with an "Electra" complex. If you aren't familiar, it's the idea that this young 3-year-old was somehow trying to "seduce" her father. In addition, says the mom, the therapist said that these problems would "re-emerge" in her teenage years. Not a prognosis that makes any sense whatsoever. I can't think of any psychological diagnosis for a child that would involve a prediction of conflict and troubles in teen years, save maybe pet torturing or something. So anyway, she doesn't have a lot of specific fears such as you described. When the downstairs was covered in sheets for some painting (and she was in the midst of one of her breakdowns) she was too afraid to come down there. I can't think of too many other instances. So, what we know is that her alters began to emerge before the sexual advances she has memories of (from her early teens). We have the currently accepted theory that the suppository drama was the initial cause. A suspect theory, in my view. We have the diagnosis of "Electra complex"...a very suspect theory. And we also have corroboration from older brother that their dad had a fierce temper, though he only remembers being chased around and has no memories of actual physical abuse. She and her mother and also her sister and her mother had both, on at least one occasion in early teens had a physical fight with their mother. Oh...and the MOTHER is DID as well...left that out! The mother has not explored where it comes from or at least hasn't told any of us about it, but she's open about it now that my wife has opened up about hers. My theory is that there was a family system of abuse. I'm guessing one of the mom's alters was abusive and she may not even know it. The dad has a temper. The suppository thing is either true and indicative of really bad parenting or is a cover for something darker. It was just odd to me that both parents IMMEDIATELY provided this story when informed about her DID (I simply said that DID results from childhood trauma and offered no speculation as to what that trauma might be.) My wife has no memory of ages 11 - 14 or so. The vague memories of inappropriate sexual stuff with her dad are from her later teens, I think. She actually had moved out of her mom's at age 12 or so and in with her Dad. My wife has a therapist who has worked with DID and seems very nice and has done the sorts of things I see as fairly standard practice (with the addition of a few sessions of EMDR, if you are familiar with that.) Anyway, if I continue to post about this..now you all have the background. Well, some of it, anyway.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:20 pm

The daughter is my stepdaughter and her dad would get custody if my wife were found incompetent for some reason. However, I am fairly convinced that if I was out of the picture, she'd resume being able to function. I'm not causing the disfunction, just enabling it...this is the issue I'm trying to sort out.

by **hanshan** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:26 pm

Who knows? DID can be the ultimate in disfunctionality - alters can siphon off all available energy leaving nothing w/ which to cope w/ the mundane chores of life - like getting dressed, eating, etc. The issues are way too complex to give an armchair analysis. Have heard of multiple counseling but have no experience therein so can't comment. Finding a marriage counselor w/ this type of experience could be a daunting task. A key point: does she want to get better? i.e., integrate This could be a deciding factor. Anyways... luck & all the best ...

by **RollickHooper** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:33 pm

Many thousands of warm heartfelt hugs to you DE

by **proldic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:01 pm

sw's post says alot of good things. You mention EMDR...I'm assuming you mean rapid eye-movement desensitization therapy? If so, interesting, very interesting. Do you know more about this and it's history? If I can say anything to you, here, as you step into the biggest honey-pot of all, it would be to say stay far far way from the "Politics is irrelevent to therapy" Jungians and RC'ers. Big missing intentionally-missing component. Some may say that the particular outlook doesn't matter if the "fit" is right, I'd say that it won't last long at best, and could be really dangerous at worst -- but ok -- if there's no other options in your area, and it feels right, use it as a stepping stone, but take caution, cause y'all might end up keeping camp longer than you'd like... We're really rooting for you and your family here. If My ol even wanted to write you believe it or not, although don't think she will, it's partially about this board. So much that can't be written here. Breathwork: strength-inity-fire pon the wicked Whoa yeah woo To help give true vision To the mother of our nation... Jah guide I dealings woo... Jah guide I dealings in the daily sun... Come bun until them sunny side up over done Them delight in breaking solar spirit down Neva beauty and purity when you first come down Smiles that created life into one Depend upon the back whey ya go neva turn To the womb from which to come The womb from which to come... The vessel of woman how could we none ...woman brought forth everyone ...woman she brought forth everyone Work hard every day To see them again today Laugh and make it look one-way... Them there whe deh back dey Drugs stepping stone work place No issue no go home from dey... Your recollection how you keep it stay yeah Incidents we ago fun it today Big scene a drama back in the day Well it’s a movements going every day About when forget now is to learn aye Not no memorize aye A B C and pinky do as you a say... Smiles that created life up into one aye Depend upon the back whey ya go neva turn Your recollection how you keep it stay Incidents we ago fun it today Big scene a drama back in the day Well it’s a movements going every day And it’s the womb from which to come Celebrating the womb from which to come How could the vessel of woman be none The vessel of woman how could be none... Jah guide I dealings a whoa Jah guide I dealings yeah

by sw » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:14 pm

by sw » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 pm

by **Project Willow** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:26 pm

Hi Dreams End, This will be quick as I don't have a lot of time right now. I am sorry for your difficulties. The treatment of D.I.D. has come a long way, but only within very small circles of professionals. New technigues have not been widely disseminated for more reasons than I can go into here. The ultimate danger you face is having your wife work with someone who may actually be manipulating her system. About the political beliefs issue, it most certainly is important, if not central. A good, aware, and moral human being also will make a good therapist. In my experience however, these are few and far between. Choose carefully. Haven't had time to read all the responses, but I will later. GDNO1 gives excellent advice about boundaries, those issues can certianly be red flags. I can provide you with resources, including contact information for a group which has developed non-debilitating, client-centered technigues for recovering from the effects of extreme trauma and working with DID systems (including mind control). You can start here: <a href="http://www.coreintegrity.org/">The Heartland Initiative</a> I have more info and can send it via pm if you're interested. Good luck!

by **Dreams End** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:31 pm

proldic, either there's a typo or I'm being dense here but I didn't get this sentence: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If My ol even wanted to write you believe it or not, although don't think she will, it's partially about this board.<hr></blockquote> I thought "ol" could be "old lady" but that somehow doesn't seem like a phrase you'd use. anyway, there is a private message service on here so if she wants to write, feel free...and I can pass info onto my wife as well. That way it doesn't have to go on the board. If there is a security issue for her or you, Jeff's Pinkerton post won't really make either of you feel warm and fuzzy so that may not be an option. I've actually always been very curious about your story...you've only mentioned you were helping a friend who was an RA survivor. I just don't like to pry into those things. As for EMDR, I don't know the history. I was sure skeptical when I heard about it. They used it, for example, to get at a memory fragment she already had. Just expanded it a little bit. I don't think, in general, it's supposed to be the same as hypnosis but I don't really know much about it. I do know that her therapist is very respectful and won't do it if she is uncomfortable or not feeling strong enough to handle any kind of memories. The EMDR has only been used I think twice now, so it has not, as yet, been a big component. If you know more about it, feel free to share. And I'll look into NET...I've heard of it, or something similar, but I don't think she'll be changing therapists anytime soon...might be of interest to her therapist though.

by sw » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:40 pm

by **Dreams End** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:49 pm

None of these warnings cause me worry when comparing them to what I know of her therapist. I'm bookmarking the Core and NET sites and will pass them on. The community of people here in this city who do this work is VERY small...in fact, this therapist is the only one we could find. She's nurturing and doesn't push, addresses alters (if they are willing) and does everything she can to avoid retraumatizing when memories resurface. However, my only real complaint is that still my wife can't say for sure even in real general terms what the trauma was. I wonder if her therapist is being "too careful"? Maybe no such thing. Oh, and i didn't reply about the "politics". People who see politics as separate won't really get me...nevermind other issues. But if I had gone to that guy and had started to trust him and then shared feelings of despair or hopelessness over the "state of the world" (heh), and he'd urged me to support military action...we would have had a really big problem. Glad I found out first.

by **proldic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:46 pm

yeah, I'm ashamed to say it, "ol"=old lady. She wanted to write you, as she's a fan sometimes, and she felt something about your description of your situation, something we've commented on together ever since good witch/bad witch. I swear, we saw this coming, bro. My "ol" really empathized with you this morning. One concern was about this board, yes, including -- but not primarily about -- security. Although the ra link is not her, the connection is close to us. We realize that all of us on here who've continually posted anything truly confronting their politricks -- especially those exposing the red herrings or particularly current cover-ups -- we've already fucked anyway by now if they decide to bring it to that level, anyway. So I guess we might as well feel free to write what we want now. Although I often think about how convenient we make it for them to know what way to spin next. But this im thing, maybe we'll get it together to check it out. Actually communicate in person?? How strange... EMDR, if I'm naming it as rapid eye-movement desensitization therapy correctly, is basically a bar the size of a carpenter's level on a stand, with a series of about 20 red diodes evenly-spaced across it, and then two connections for the fingers, which pulse at a certain pattern in conjunction w/ the lights, which move in a pattern. The patient is supposed to watch the face of the bar and respond accordingly to the pulses in some way I'm forgetting. Meanwhile the therapist guides the patient slowly through the traumatic memories, adjusting the pulses in some way (I believe there's an audio-headphone component as well). It's being used by many different types of practioners, I'm sure in different and more or less intense ways. It definitetly has potential in the right hands, but is nothing by itself, in fact it could be used for bad. What I do remember is that this technique was of great interest to Dr. Cameron. "Politics" I guess it depends on what you mean by it. I certainly don't mean RI-style. But I've seen with myown eyes how it can be particularly invigorating when a progressive therapist actually makes a prescription for progressive activism. And sometimes just being a body is all that's needed. I know this sounds out of character, but in this case I think we can even lower the 'gatekeeper bar' a bit, if it means doing anti-poverty work in a shelter, or Code Pink, or whatever. As you know, there can be amazing group-therapy and support and commonalites found there (as long as you don't topple any sacred cows, of course which doesn't have to be everybody's role<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> ) Seriously, even mainstream therapists sometimes tell their patients to get involved, charity work. There's always something going on. A lot of times, it can be fun (depending on what you choose), builds "reality" support and validation for you as the functioning partner, and sometimes you can bring the whole clan, get outdoors. And best of all you can make it short, and then go out to eat after. Hey, for many it's a life. Anyway, I don't mean to imply that it's as simple as "get a hobby". The solution to your situation, I realize, is deeper, more compex, and easier said than done. I'm just throwing it out there.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:32 pm

As for seeing this coming...the breakdown happened before I started posted on RI. I've certainly learned a lot about the whole "New Age" empire (I think that's a good term for it) since that time. I didn't mention IM in my post...though that's cool too. I rarely get on IM but I have an AIM account from long ago that's still active. But at the top of the main EZboard page you can see an "EZinbox" and you can send private messages to posters. I've received a few since I got on here. My email address contains my full name (probably should get another one) but I actually don't mind providing it off board if you send a message. By the way, the person I called for a therapy referral is an old friend from my days in the local CWP. He actually said he'd be happy to take me on as we haven't really been in touch in 20 years, but we got to talking about those days and both realized we might like to reconnect as friends. Because of that, he didn't want to assume a therapist role. We started talking about possible infiltration and disruption during those days. I look forward to getting together with him and having a look back at those days with some distance and perspective. Anyway, send a message if you want or if your "ol" wants. I'm sure my wife won't mind hooking up with her via email if she's interested. My wife, or someone in there, was not real happy with me yesterday. Haven't seen her yet this afternoon so we'll see what the new day brings.

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