shooting at DC Holocaust museum

[Jeff]

I found this on another forum which I think is a pretty good analysis:

starviego, I'm going to presume you don't know what you just did, or why it is so unwelcome here.

When I began blogging, I cited a second-hand Hoffman quote on the cryptocracy. Soon after, I discovered who he is and which "historical revision" he represents, and I didn't make the mistake again.

So - don't do that again. Because it will result in an immediate ban.

[Hilda Martinez]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I'll ask my innocent question anyway.

Why do we have a Holocaust museum in America? What does this have to do with my country?

[American Dream]

Why do we have a Holocaust Museum in the United States? Well it's like this: The Nazis were openly favored by a lot of the owning class before the war, when they were then opposed (except for those industrialists who were secretly helping them). After the war, a lot of those Nazis got shuttled away and put on Uncle Sam's payroll.

However, at the same time the Zionist movement was building steam, and they got Palestine. It turned out to be strategic for Uncle Sam that there was an Israel, so they let a Holocaust Industry develop which includes lots of self-righteous posturing against human rights abuses.

My response would be that there should be more Holocaust Museums, not less. The United States could use a really graphic museum of the Indigenous Holocaust, the Vietnam Holocaust, the Hiroshima/Nagaski Holocaust, the Latin American Holocausts, the Indonesian Holocaust, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum...

[yathrib]

I'm not sure where to begin with this, except that I'm not recommending tit for tat. But far be it from me to take away your opportunity to show--or actually, tell--us what an exemplary human being you are. Even God--according to some accounts--took one day off, but not you.

Equal empathy is exactly what we *don't* get from the various talking heads and empty suits, pardon the cliches. Not even in this instance. The one fatality was an African American security guard whom most people can't name, even after all the coverage. And did you know that the guards at the museum requested bulletproof vests and were refused? Sounds like a reasonable request to me... Where was all this compassion and empathy then?

In conclusion, something ending with "...and the horse you rode in on."

Here's the thing: It becomes harder for such situations as the shootings at the Museum to command the same respect as Lessons For Us All when other Lessons For Us All are hypocritically minimized or ignored.

I could not agree less. As human beings, we are innately and completely sensitive to the harm and pain of others. It is our responsibility to strip away anything that clouds that, IMO. Even the most minute sense of tit-for-tat in our assessment of the meaning of violence against human beings is, IMO, vile.

We don't get back at the Octopus (even that has its Anti-Semitic taint, don't it) by withholding our empathy for others. We are endlessly responsible to make sure we never learn to minimize or ignore suffering and inhumanity.

And the holocaust --is -- unique. It is an archetype with all of its own particular ghosts still floating about the noosphere. The point is that -- so is -- Rwanda and the Great Lakes regions' genocide(s). They too have their own very particular ghosts. Ditto for the Cambodians, the Armenians, the Palestinians, the Native Americans. Sure Jewish exceptionalism sucks, but I'm sorry -- none of us will meet 6 million people in our lives. Imagine that every single person you have ever talked to in your entire life had been murdered. That is simply incomprehensible.

This is fucking preachy but I'm not gonna edit it.

ps -- Alice you are the only person who might be perceived as an AS that I would defend vigorously (rigorously) because you are brilliant and more dedicated than anyone else here. That said, it is nice to read everyone condemning AS, but I still think it creeps up here alot. I'm not worried about the fringe who believe in a Jewish Communist conspiracy -- that seems way outdated. I worry about the lefties and anarchists (like alot of people here) who are flirting with AS all the fucking time due to an initial outrage over the genocide of Palestinians, because many of them, again IMO, cross that line behind closed doors. I've heard that talk - alot. It is very very common.

[Nordic]

You want to censor fascists? Then you should censor almost the entire United States corporate media.

Hannity? Gone. O'Reilly? Gone. Scaraborough? Gone.

I actually think this would be a fine idea, but it's never gonna happen.

I would actually enjoy seeing any one of these pricks get their asses physically kicked. They are bullies, and bullies only pull back when they have brute force directed their way.

Hmm, this sure looks like I'm a racist, doesn't it? I must hate the Irish! All these guys .... are Irish! Yeah, that's it!

Nordic, why do you hate the Irish? I think Nordic should quit posting this racist garbage here.

I am going to provide a couple of links to most racist garbage that I posted at Dailykos before I was banned. And keep in mind I wasn't banned for being a racist, I was banned for promoting "conspiracy theories", like pointing out certain facts, i.e. that the 9/11 commission report was largely filled with information obtained through torture, and for pointing out that an upcoming book from a commission insider is reporting that almost the entire 9/11 commission report is a lie, and a deliberate one at that.

So here is one of my racist rants from Dailykos:

Israeli Soldiers Admit Atrocities in Gaza:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... a.-UPDATED

Israel: Rogue State?:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... ogue-state

And my personal favorite:

Gaza Villages Wiped Off the Map

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... ff-the-Map

Here's another one:

A few things you might not know ...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... ot-know-...

I know, I know, it's racist to point out "a few things you might not know", i.e. that all that "wiretapping" business being done by the Telecoms is being farmed out to Israeli companies with strong ties to the Israeli government.

But it's racist to point that out, so I guess i'm a racist.

Oh, it looks like I hate Italian Americans, too, because I'm not very fond of Nancy Pelosi. Isn't "Pelosi" an Italian name.

Yup. I'm a racist:

Cheney admits Pelosi guility in wiretapping scandal

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... ng-scandal

Oh wait, then there's this. Obviously my hatred of "the jooz" inspired me to write about this:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... diary-this

Which is all about this: Survivors say Israelis shelled Gaza building where troops told them to shelter

And now I say things like "Fuck Obama" which OBVIOUSLY means I HATE BLACK PEOPLE.

Why else would I say "fuck Obama" UNLESS I hate black people.

So to all of you who call me a racist? Well I guess I hate everybody!

I hate Dick Cheney and George Bush, so .... I hate white men, too!

White Christian Men. I fucking HATE THEM.

[American Dream]

Nordic, when I posted the cartoon about the leopard who couldn't change its spots, I was laboring under the misunderstanding that you were the one who posted the link to arch-racist Michael Hoffman's site. I apologize for that- it was my bleary brain that misread the thread.

However, I've got to say that if you really don't want to be racist, don't agree with racism, then please show us that side, because I'd really like to see you express what you say your values are.

[lightningBugout]

I'm not sure where to begin with this, except that I'm not recommending tit for tat. But far be it from me to take away your opportunity to show--or actually, tell--us what an exemplary human being you are. Even God--according to some accounts--took one day off, but not you.

I'm glad you felt comfortable twisting my beliefs into some sort of vanity project. Go get em tiger.

Extra points for missing the message of what I wrote, doing the same thing again in your reply but directing it at me this time?

And something off and die.

[jlaw172364]

Your country? Who are you, the sovereign?

Not only do we have Holocaust museums in the U.S., but we also have every last possible kind of museum you can think of.

See, a free enterprise and private property regime allows anyone with sufficient capital, to purchase land and build edifices on it. Additionally, anyone with sufficient capital can also purchase airtime and textbook space to advertise their interests. Finally, anyone with sufficient capital can also lobby the government to subsidize their interests.

@ Others

I find it amazing the amount of time and energy spent analyzing Israeli misdeeds.

Why not spend some time discussing misdeeds that occur in Muslim countries? Can we devote thread after thread to parsing and analyzing the nuances of the slave society that exists in Dubai? Can we talk about the day-to-day realities concerning restrictive religious tyrannies that exist in Muslim states such as Saudi Arabia?

Some people have insisted that they talk about every group that oppresses, but I have yet to see any extensive discussions of these phenomena.

[jingofever]

See, a free enterprise and private property regime allows anyone with sufficient capital, to purchase land and build edifices on it. Additionally, anyone with sufficient capital can also purchase airtime and textbook space to advertise their interests. Finally, anyone with sufficient capital can also lobby the government to subsidize their interests.

In the case of the Holocaust Museum the land was donated by the federal government and the money to build the museum came from private donations. But you still need to answer the question, why does the Holocaust Museum get started by an act of Congress and a spot next to the National Mall while the Ventriloquism Museum is started by a crazy ventriloquist and stuck in Fort Mitchell, Kentucky?

[orz]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I'll ask my rhetorical question anyway.

- fixed

[Hilda Martinez]

Don't be a snickerpuss, jlaw172364. You know what I mean.

Imagine for a moment a Native American Holocaust museum. It wouldn't resonate quite the same, would it?

[AlicetheKurious]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I'll ask my innocent question anyway.

Why do we have a Holocaust museum in America? What does this have to do with my country?

It's already been opened, by one Norman G. Finkelstein, the can-opener being his seminal book The Holocaust Industry, a really good read.

On Edit: I just remembered that in my library I have a spanking new copy of his other book, Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History. I'm moving it to the very top of my reading list, just as soon as I finish what I'm reading now.

American Dream, reading Beyond Chutzpah might help to answer your question.

[beeline]

Don't be a snickerpuss, jlaw172364. You know what I mean.

Imagine for a moment a Native American Holocaust museum. It wouldn't resonate quite the same, would it?

I would love to see a NA Holocaust Museum.

What's a snickerpuss?

[lightningBugout]

As much as I loathe Wikipedia, my search for a particular phrase took me to its page on anti-semitism, and I found this better wording of the same idea, a defintion of anti-semitism that reads: when "Jews are judged according to a standard different from that applied to others, and they are accused of "cosmic evil."

The path to an explicit manifestation of the latter on a board like this one seems likely to be a bit circuitous. Though we often deal in things metaphysical, and I can certainly see the threat that vague traces in various occulto-political theories could easily blossom into charges of cosmic malevolence. That's a big part of what happens in Hoffman's writing.

OTOH the first point is deceptively simple. Usually when someone of good intent is verging on anti-semitism, they, like clockwork, offer a pre-emptive defense of their own character, ie that whole "I don't see color / I don't care about religion / I don't see religions differently, etc" thing.

But its a pretty prevalent thing. Not just seeming to hold jews more responsible for the Palestinian genocide than say the Turks for the Armenian genocide or the Hutus for the Great Lakes genocide(s), but the more insidious - "it's bizzare" that Israel has such a fond relationship with the US, or in this thread to "demand" an explanation, not to mention to portray Israeli like a snakecharmer who mysteriously forces the US to "throw money" at them. Get it -- the snakecharmer - master of snakes - master of evil, um, Mephistopheles mind controlling "our" country into giving up his very favorite snack. (can't place it but have the vague sense of having read somewhere about the Jews apparently innate taste for cash).

Not to mention, why do they get a museum in our country? Huh? What about us?

Now, the apparently hard part for some to comprehend is -- it is perfectly legitimate to disagree with our government's relationship to Israel. The problem sets in when that relationship is portrayed as some sort of metaphysical curiosity. Why, for example, does noone ever seem to post about North Korea in similar terms, ie "why do they get to continue the slow mass slaughter of their lowerclass and plod steadily forward with a nuclear program we have warned them against time and time again, all the while getting the US government to throw money at them in the form of financial aid; we the people should demand an explanation." Maybe I've overlooked the North Korean-centric version of RI, but I've never heard anything like that, and, to be honest Kim Jong Il's archetype is pretty snakelike.

So its very easy for criticism of Israel to slip into the legacy territory in which much if not most of the metaphysics underlying western philosophy was formed. It is not unique that the Jews were given an ontological, cosmic identity as spiritual-pollutant/evil-genius. It is that this is a part of Eurocentric philosophy and we live in a world that is still dominated by Anglo entitlement. Yet this thing of ontological casting seems to be the fascist rhetoric that possesses any people who become willing to commit genocide - big C Cosmic level devaluation of the other - cockroaches and all that. Which is why I wrote my own little plea-for / belief-in forcing ourselves to remain humane and to fight any internal impulse that may lead to the devaluation of others -- because basically each of us is one little theater in the battle to stop fascism and genocide. The scathing irony that someone interpreted this as my own self-aggrandizement and ego-trip is deliciously ironic and will hang with me for some time.

[Col. Quisp]

For one reason, we have a holocaust museum b/c many survivors were able to move here. another reason is we have a lot of idiots who deny it happened. i have visited the museum and it is a moving experience and has gathered many important documents and artifacts. There is a valuable resource center that you can use to trace relatives of people who were sent to camps. i cannot recall if the museum contains information on others who were affected, like homosexuals, the insane, gypsies. Does anyone know if the museum is strictly focused on the Jewish victims?

And yes I agree we should have museums dedicated to all holocausts and racial/national/religious/gender/sexual orientation, etc. eradications by another race/nationality/religion/gender/sexual orientation, etc.. The US torture photos should be made available for all to see. What will it take for people to say "enough!" and start to live in harmony with each other? When will humans stop being evil.