Missing Ship

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Postby Sweejak » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:30 pm

I don't think it was ever truly lost. Firstly because it's just hard to comprehend how the ship could evade surveillance especially after the first reports of being boarded and secondly because "Cmdr Chris Davies, the spokesman at Nato's British maritime headquarters, acknowledged that the Western military alliance had been monitoring the situation since the first reports of a possible hijacking."

How would you monitor the situation without knowledge of the ships whereabouts.

I'm wondering if the Russian navy, which is in pretty pitiful shape, was wanted somewhere else from wherever it was. Subs were called into the search and those are always prime targets for watching. I'm not surprised that they were intent on finding the ship because they crew was Russian and the Russians are intent on demonstrating that they will watch out for their citizens.
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Postby Ben D » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:35 am

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090818/155841124.html

Russia arrests 8 hijackers of Arctic Sea vessel

12:0518/08/2009

Russian navy detains eight people over hijacking of Arctic Sea cargo vessel - defense minister


MOSCOW, August 18 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian frigate Ladny has freed the Arctic Sea cargo ship in the Atlantic without firing a single shot and arrested eight alleged hijackers, Russia's defense minister said on Tuesday.

"The hijackers boarded the Arctic Sea, threatened the crew with weapons and demanded that their orders be followed. The Arctic Sea was following a route toward the African continent with all communications and navigation equipment shut down, as ordered by the hijackers," Anatoly Serdyukov reported to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

The eight detainees are from Estonia, Latvia and Russia. None of the crew was injured in the operation, the Russian minister said.
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Postby Sweejak » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:04 pm

While we're waiting for official stories which won't do much if anyting to stifle speculation we can muse on the Kursk mystery.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1467852276
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Postby Sweejak » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:51 pm

I think this Kursk film is pretty good, the theory explains much, but I want to point out some stuff that might be taken as knee jerk undercurrents.

First there is the shocking scene of a family member being sedated at a press conference which everybody ought to see. How is this so different from "don't tase me bro"?

Secondly, the very likely coverup of the entire incident by Russia and the US; how is this different from the coverup of the USS Liberty by Israel and the US?

And how in the hell does Berezovsky come off looking good?

Yulia Latynina has a story in the Moscow Times, which in spite of the name is generally seen as an anti-Russian paper has some speculations worthy of consideration:

Then there’s version No. 3: the special services. The Arctic Sea was carrying something, not timber and not from Finland, that necessitated some major work on the ship. Something that required dismantling the bulkhead, complete with gas cutting torches, during two weeks of “repair work” in Kaliningrad before the voyage, and something so large that it couldn’t be loaded for delivery onto just any little boat. To put it plainly: The Arctic Sea was carrying some sort of anti-aircraft or nuclear contraption intended for a nice, peaceful country like Syria, and they were caught with it. And this wasn’t a one-time delivery. I’m not a believer in the omniscience of the CIA or Mossad, who might have somehow found out that on a certain date a certain old vessel would be delivering a certain little something. Most likely, it was a tried and true route that had been used successfully for quite some time. And now they’ve been caught.

On Saturday, Aug. 15, the Arctic Sea’s AIS again worked briefly in the Bay of Biscay. Shortly thereafter, France announced that there was no cargo ship in the area and that the signal was coming from one of the three Russian Navy ships there.

It’s tough to say why a Russian military ship would suddenly decide to send out the Arctic Sea’s signal (they removed the AIS transponder, took it with them and then somehow clumsily bumped into it and turned it on?), but, by the looks of it, that’s when Russia found itself backed into a corner. And now instead of a possible tragedy we’ll see a cover-up operation.


http://www.moscowtimes.ru/articles/detail.php?ID=380923

There is probably no connection and while the original destination was Algeria I'd like to note that McCain was in Libya a few days ago as reported on his Twitter feed.
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Postby Sweejak » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:13 am

Ship's hijacking: misinformation helped military

Moscow's envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, told Russian TV channels "this was a brilliant operation with disinformation used intentionally in order not to hamper the work of the military".

"NATO didn't take part in the operation but it helped locate the whereabouts of the ship," he said without elaborating.


EU officials said police of 22 countries had been involved in the investigation and it could be two weeks before full details emerged.


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... e-military

Gee. Nothing much here. What disinfo and where?

Speaking with someone who should know, he says that the operation really was "very professional". He also says that as far as he knows Russia is bound by a confidentiality agreement to "at least 3 EU member" states on this operation.
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Postby Sweejak » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:02 pm

A lot of the attention of Russian commentors has focused on the dam explosion and the sudden rise of assassinations, truck bombs and all the regular new world black stuff happening in the Caucasus.
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Postby marmot » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:25 am

Mystery ship 'could have been carrying arms, nukes'

The hijackers of a cargo ship that disappeared off the coast of France threatened to blow it up if their ransom demands were not met, Russian news agencies said.

Russia has arrested eight people on suspicion of hijacking the Arctic Sea off the Swedish coast and sailing it to the Atlantic Ocean, ending weeks of silence about the fate of a ship which has intrigued European maritime authorities.

Limited information from Russian officials has failed to satisfy sceptics who voiced doubts about whether the piracy actually took place or was a convenient cover story to conceal a possible secret cargo of arms or nuclear material.

"The crew members have already confirmed that the captors demanded a ransom and threatened to blow up the vessel if their orders were not obeyed," Interfax quoted a Russian defence ministry spokesman as saying.

"The crew members also claim that the people who seized the Arctic Sea were armed and got rid of their weapons when the [Russian navy ship] Ladny ordered the dry cargo carrier's crew to stop the vessel," he said.

Climbing gear, flares and a high-speed inflatable boat supposedly used in the hijack were found aboard the Arctic Sea, the spokesman said.

The agencies did not say what ransom was demanded.

The Maltese-registered, Russian-crewed vessel and its $1.3 million cargo of timber disappeared from radar screens three weeks ago, prompting speculation ranging from an attack by an organised crime gang to a top-secret spy mission.

The Malta Maritime Authority said on Tuesday, without elaborating, that the Arctic Sea had "never really disappeared", a comment which increased speculation that security services might have been involved in the affair.

Russia has said the eight detainees were citizens of Estonia, Latvia and Russia who on July 24 boarded the ship, forced the crew to change route and turned off its navigation equipment.

After heading through the English Channel in late July, radio contact was lost and the 4,000-tonne ship did not deliver its cargo to the Algerian port of Bejaia on August 4.

The Russian navy found the missing ship on Monday in the Atlantic Ocean near Cape Verde.

The official version of events was questioned by Yulia Latynina, a leading Russian opposition journalist and commentator.

"The Arctic Sea was carrying something, not timber and not from Finland, that necessitated some major work on the ship," she wrote in the Moscow Times newspaper on Wednesday.

During two weeks of repair works in the Russian port of Kaliningrad just before the voyage, the ship's bulkhead was dismantled so something very large could be loaded, she wrote.

"To put it plainly: The Arctic Sea was carrying some sort of anti-aircraft or nuclear contraption intended for a nice, peaceful country like Syria, and they were caught with it," she said.
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:34 am

I've still found nothing solid, just more weirdness.

Police spokeswoman Ylva Voxby said they had received pictures of the crew's injuries from the Arctic Sea's operator, which had received the pictures from the ship by e-mail.

Voxby also said Swedish police still haven't received any witness reports confirming that an inflatable boat approached the freighter in the Baltic Sea. However, police have confirmed through radar pictures and other vessels in the area that the Arctic Sea made strange movements at the time of the alleged hijacking.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_ ... ssing_ship


Where did the rubber boat come from? Estonia is over 250 Km away, anything on that side of the Baltic is about the same distance. If they attacked from Gotland the distance would be much closer (30- 50 clicks), but they would have had to get there somehow and leave some traces there, stage weapons, explosives, boarding gear and fake
uniforms etc. No wonder people suspect someone rather more organized than 8 pirates.

Ah, here is this. Now it is reported that the Arctic Sea was taken by a boat not a "high speed rubber boat" as virtually all previous reports say.

Anatoly Serdyukov announced the arrests and is quoted as saying: “"These people, after claiming that their boat was not working, boarded the Arctic Sea and using the threat of arms, demanded that the crew follow all of their orders without condition." The suspects reportedly include four Estonian, two Latvians and two Russians.


http://www.mgn.com/news/dailystorydetai ... ryid=10174

So wait now, 8 "Swedish policemen" on a boat asking for help from a freighter.
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Postby Penguin » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:55 am

The first thing I thought when the fireman / radiation test thing first surfaced was a kidnapping that happened in Finland this summer. A kidnap for ransom, and cops spread disinfo in the media when they had not yet caught the kidnapper, and ransom money was flying in the wind around town...

Afterwards, police said that they have a right to intentionally mislead or outright spread disinformation when it is operationally needed. I wonder if the police have been asked to do that now too...Or at least, were.
Curiouser and curiouser the story does get. The options that make more sense are all the ones that hush hushed in the media...

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090819/local/ships-hijacking-deliberate-misinformation-helped-the-military

Gee. Nothing much here. What disinfo and where?

Speaking with someone who should know, he says that the operation really was "very professional". He also says that as far as he knows Russia is bound by a confidentiality agreement to "at least 3 EU member" states on this operation.


"The Arctic Sea was carrying something, not timber and not from Finland, that necessitated some major work on the ship," she wrote in the Moscow Times newspaper on Wednesday.

During two weeks of repair works in the Russian port of Kaliningrad just before the voyage, the ship's bulkhead was dismantled so something very large could be loaded, she wrote.

"To put it plainly: The Arctic Sea was carrying some sort of anti-aircraft or nuclear contraption intended for a nice, peaceful country like Syria, and they were caught with it," she said.
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:09 am

I don't put much stock in Latynina. Who has Syria invaded? Still there is the other unsolved story of the bombed nuclear facility or whatever it was in Syria that no one wanted to talk about.

Meanwhile:

President Peres, who will be returning to Israel later today, summarized his visit to Russia and stated that "It was an extremely positive visit from Israel's point of view. I welcome President Medvedev's announcement of his intention to upgrade the level of the strategic relationship between Israel and Russia to the same level as the Russian relationship with Germany, France and Italy. This is an exceptionally meaningful decision for Israel in regard of its relationship with Russia on all planes." President Peres added that "The Russian president opposes the existence of nuclear weapons in Iran, and has made an unambiguous promise that Russia will not sell weapons that may harm the balance of power in the Middle East."

It should be noted that an additional outcome of the visit was the significant increase in cooperation between Israeli and Russian companies in the technological, agricultural, biotechnology and medical fields.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Co ... g-2009.htm

What "balance" of power in the Mid East?
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:37 am

As far as I could tell Latynina's comment about Syria was sheer speculation, but now, maybe not so easy to take off the table.

From someone whose info is trustworthy, he says that they received a tender to buy locomotive parts from Russia to Syria. He didn't go thru with it because he says it "smelt like a scam" .. Commission only, no drawings only part numbers and stuff like that. It involved about 4 Million and 4 containers.

RT Reports 11 crew members are back in Moscow. All previous reports said there were 15 crew.

http://www.russiatoday.ru/Top_News/2009 ... -back.html
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:44 am

A word about the dam explosion:

It takes serious skill to screw up a hydro plant. The only energy is water falling in ready built channels.

My apprenticeship was in a large electrical machine plant. Amongst other things we built hydrosets. I later did insulation design for hydro (and also nuclear) generating sets. A 30 year old turbine is not old. The parts that might age are the insulation and the bearings, both easy to maintain. This was not an insulation failure. The bearings can be monitored automatically for vibration and temperature rise (UK practice since before my apprenticeship began in 1970). It is easy to predict failure and replace months before any real problems begin. Poor maintenance is not strong enough a term for this. It would require acts of serious criminal negligence to put a hydroset in the way of danger. The same goes for the ability to open
a sluice gate so quickly that there was a serious overpressure of water. The motors opening the sluice gate wouldn't be able to run fast enough. It takes over 12 hours to run a big hydroset up to full speed. (Pumped storage schemes use different, less efficient channel designs and water channels). If it was possible to open the gates with simple gravity then the design was appalling in the first place. ....
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:31 pm

Not much out there that I can find today, just more weirdness. I still don't even know if it was a rubber boat or a boat.
... Three heavy-lift air force jets, reportedly carrying 11 crew members, the alleged hijackers and other investigators, arrived at a Moscow region military base after flying from Cape Verde, the West African island nation where a Russian frigate stopped the ship four days ago.

... State television channel Rossiya said the suspects claimed to be were ecologists who had been arrested by mistake.

... It was unclear why three planes were needed to fly such a small group of people to Moscow, nor why Il-76s — among Russia's largest planes — were used for the operation.

... Federal investigators said in a statement that crew members told them that, while the Arctic Sea was in Swedish waters, the ship was boarded by eight men who wore uniforms that read "POLICE" on the back and who threatened the crew.

... Russian TV channels showed footage of what it said were air force planes arriving at the Chkalovsky base near Moscow, and men believed to be the hijackers being escorted roughly by special forces troops.

... Rossiya said the alleged pirates identified themselves as ecologists when they were arrested. But in footage from the hold of one of the planes, a suspect identified as Andrei Lunev was asked what ecological organization he was connected with.

"I don't know," the man said. He also denied that he or the other suspects were armed and said they went aboard the Arctic Sea to ask for gasoline for their inflatable vessel.

... Russian and European maritime experts have cast doubt on the ransom reports and speculation has grown that the freighter was carrying contraband cargo, possibly weapons or drugs — suspicions fueled by dearth of information from the Russian government.

http://tinyurl.com/mz6jc6
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Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm

Interfax is widely respected, but here all they've got is a description of a TV report.

Artic Sea was hijacked by tattooed environmentalists - TV

16:27 GMT, Aug 20, 2009 Latest Headlines...

MOSCOW. Aug 20 (Interfax) - The men who hijacked the Arctic Sea cargo ship claimed to be members of environmental organizations and that they used no weapons while boarding the vessel in the Baltic waters. In an exclusive report shown by the Rossiya television channel on Thursday, one of the detained hijackers, named as Andrei Lunev, said that they boarded the vessel to ask for petrol, because their motor boat had run out of it. He claimed that the no one threatened the crew and that weapons were not used. He also said they were on good terms with the crew.
The images broadcast by Rossiya clearly show heavily tattooed bodies of the detained pirates, which according to the channel correspondent is a testimony of their rich criminal past.
kk bc

(Our editorial staff can be reached at eng.editors@interfax.ru)
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Postby smiths » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:37 am

hmmm, its just one of those mysteries,

as such it joins,

Mary Celeste: A brigantine merchant ship discovered in early December 1872 in the Atlantic Ocean unmanned and apparently abandoned, in spite of the good weather.
The Flying Dutchman: The most famous of ghost vessels, apparently seen off the Cape of Good Hope.
Lady Lovibond: Said to have been wrecked on February 13, 1748, and reappear off the Kent coast every 50 years.
Octavius: A ghost ship, probably legendary and not actual. Found west of Greenland by the a whaler in 1775

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -crew.html


how is that for chucking a turd into the story
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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