Friday night Pandemic Watch - Swine Flu coming to you?

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Postby alwyn » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:05 pm

chiggerbit wrote:
Btw, my doctor friend looked at the most recent CDC stats this afternoon and said the flu mortality in raw numbers is, so far, about 15% higher than a normal flu season. Which is not much in a historical sense. Though of course that may change.


I think what has so many people spooked is that the mortality is happening in a much younger population. \

What's kind of interesting, from what I'm seeing, is that those who are using the home-type remedies to avoid or modify this flu seem to be having more serious symptoms, or for longer, anyway. Not sure if they've noticed that yet, though. They're the ones who, mostly, are determined not to get the shot.


not true, chigger. My kid, who has almost died from asthma, was diagnosed with the not so dread swine flu last week. We treated him with activated quercetin, vitamin D and homeopathy. He did great. It did seem like his lungs were getting junky at the end, but we gave him a round of antibiotics, and he came right around.

I did see on some forums that there are some adults who were down for three weeks, and they resented the time off of work...my kid was down for a few days with hard core, then recovery for a week. This is typical for his recovery period.

I did not get this flu, so I'm thinking it is related somehow to the one in '76, which I did get, and it knocked me on my a@# then.
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Postby alwyn » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:06 pm

lightningBugout wrote:
chiggerbit wrote:Wow, i can't believe you got it that quickly, buggy, asthma or not.

I haven't seen one single report yet of adverse effects from anyone who has gotten the shot.


I've read of a small handful of serious allergic reactions but nothing out of the ordinary for a flu vaccine.



I have a friend who lives in Sweden. She said there were two deaths last week from the vaccine.
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Postby alwyn » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:13 pm

lightningBugout wrote:
All that said, I am by no means a babe in the woods wrt h1n1. Something is utterly and deeply wrong here. The differential spread of the disease in varying countries is fucking bizarre. And I couldn't help but notice how much the atmosphere at the clinic I went to today felt like 9/11 or Katrina. Shared fear and collective trauma. Whatever the genesis, its the hottest thing going these days. And its only going to get worse (hotter). But then a decade or two ago, forward thinkers were very straightforward about saying: "terrorism" and plagues and global warming are going to happen and going to change (ne devastate) civilization. So its happening. And I, for one, am getting used to it. Being in a public place that has been converted into a public health emergency site feels eerily normal. After all I've seen the 9/11 and Katrina footage so many times, you know. The world is ending without even a whimper. Pretty much just as we have been told for 30 years now by people who have been looking towards the future with a sober eye. Say la vee.


REally, I must disagree. THE world is not ending, it will keep merrirly spinning along long after you and I are gone. OUR worlds may or may not end, but that is different. :?

The different rates of death (or not) is quite disturbing, it's like there are several different versions of H1N1 floating around out there. The forum talking about deaths, was that real? Around here the disease has been fairly mild, for the most part. MD'S are talking about how the vaccine was rushed, and even the CDC is saying the 'pandemic' may have peaked.

there is high weirdness out there related to this. It's kind of like someone's mad plot to take over the world didn't quite come off as planned...
just as well...
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Postby lightningBugout » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:28 pm

alwyn wrote:
lightningBugout wrote:
All that said, I am by no means a babe in the woods wrt h1n1. Something is utterly and deeply wrong here. The differential spread of the disease in varying countries is fucking bizarre. And I couldn't help but notice how much the atmosphere at the clinic I went to today felt like 9/11 or Katrina. Shared fear and collective trauma. Whatever the genesis, its the hottest thing going these days. And its only going to get worse (hotter). But then a decade or two ago, forward thinkers were very straightforward about saying: "terrorism" and plagues and global warming are going to happen and going to change (ne devastate) civilization. So its happening. And I, for one, am getting used to it. Being in a public place that has been converted into a public health emergency site feels eerily normal. After all I've seen the 9/11 and Katrina footage so many times, you know. The world is ending without even a whimper. Pretty much just as we have been told for 30 years now by people who have been looking towards the future with a sober eye. Say la vee.


REally, I must disagree. THE world is not ending, it will keep merrirly spinning along long after you and I are gone. OUR worlds may or may not end, but that is different. :?

The different rates of death (or not) is quite disturbing, it's like there are several different versions of H1N1 floating around out there. The forum talking about deaths, was that real? Around here the disease has been fairly mild, for the most part. MD'S are talking about how the vaccine was rushed, and even the CDC is saying the 'pandemic' may have peaked.

there is high weirdness out there related to this. It's kind of like someone's mad plot to take over the world didn't quite come off as planned...
just as well...


Oh of course. The globe has a long time yet. And, in fact, so do human worlds. But probably not this one. Which is not something I'm lamenting. Any language will fail but, in sum, I think we've been riding a particular wave for some time and its breaking on the beach right about now.
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Postby lightningBugout » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:37 pm

alwyn wrote:I have a friend who lives in Sweden. She said there were two deaths last week from the vaccine.


The number is actually 4 but it is unconfirmed. And over a million people have been vaccinated in Sweden.

Millions and millions of people around the world have been vaccinated. If I worry about it at all, I worry about finding out years down the road about some sort of invisible associated neurological syndrome or immune reaction.

From Digital Journal:

Possible deaths from H1N1 vaccine reported in Sweden
Posted Oct 28, 2009 by ■ Stephanie Dearing
There are reports from Sweden of possible deaths linked to the H1N1 vaccine; unconfirmed and unwelcome news which will surely complicate the very busy flu season that has descended on most of the northern hemisphere.
While confirmation has yet to be made by health authorities in Sweden, Associated Content is reporting that four people have died after receiving the H1N1 vaccine. Three of those are alleged to have been seniors with serious underlying health conditions. Very little is known about the fourth. The Local has reported that the outbreak of H1N1 flu in Sweden has picked up speed in the past few weeks. About 1 million Swedes have been vaccinated for H1N1. Stockholm News (English) reports that the deaths are being investigated, saying

"... Yesterday the national agency received reports that two women had died a couple of days after having received the vaccine, a 90-year-old woman and a 74-year-old woman belonging to the risk group. There are two other cases investigated, one man with cardiac problems who died twelve hours after vaccination and a woman who was found dead two days after her vaccination."

An unconfirmed source says Swedish news sources are reporting at least 350 adverse reactions to the vaccine while saying the Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control has denied a link between the adverse reactions and the vaccine.
Sweden contracted with Glaxo-Smith-Kline to provide the country with the EU-approved Pandemrix H1N1 vaccine. The vaccination program in Sweden started October 12, with health care workers and pregnant women immunized first.
In Germany, health officials caused a flap last week after suggesting that Pandemrix not be used to vaccinate young children. The medical authorities revealed that the government had ordered two different vaccines, one for government and army, one for the general public. The health officials recommended switching the vaccines. The Irish Times reported Dr. Frank Ulrich Montgomery, the Vice-President of the German Medical Association, as saying

“It would be wise to swap – the federal government should use the normal vaccine and make its own doses available to those who should be using the better-tested vaccine. We know the effects of the various ingredients in adjuvant vaccines but not the combined effect. It’s understandable that people are wary of getting jabs of drug cocktails.”

Pandemrix contains the booster adjuvant squalene, and many German physicians have recommended that young children not receive the adjuvanted vaccine. Germany's inoculation program for H1N1 began Monday, and the German population is angry that there are two different immunizations shots for people, with the riskier one going to the general public. Cevlapan is made by Baxter, does not contain an adjuvant, and is believed to have less adverse side effects than Pandremix.
Hungary has reported one death associated with the H1N1 vaccine, although confirmation has not yet been made. Hungary is using a Hungarian-made vaccine.
In the United States, anger is rising over a lack of H1N1 vaccine. The sudden deaths of young people and children, confirmed to have been caused by the H1N1 virus in North America has sparked a demand for the vaccination on both sides of the border.
Research has found pregnant women who become ill with the flu can give birth to children with brain damage, which has been linked to emotional and developmental problems later in life. One of the scientists involved in the study recommended pregnant women get immunized against the flu saying

"There is more and more information that flu is very bad news during pregnancy."

Glaxo-Smith-Kline has reported a surge in revenues due to demand for antiviral drugs to fight the flu, and expects to make one billion pounds from the H1N1 vaccine alone.
There have been at least 5,000 deaths worldwide caused by the H1N1 virus.


ok and on edit.....

According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/ ... ety_qa.htm), "only unadjuvanted vaccines will be used in the United States during the 2009 flu season." Which means all the internet speculation about Squalene (and gulf war syndrome, for example) goes out the window. Also, the type of dose I received today (a single one) further does not include the mercury-containing compound called thimerosal which has been associated (not always convincingly) with autism.

however.....

if I do die from this vaccine, I'd like to leave my record collection to Barracuda.
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Postby barracuda » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:26 am

Good man, but I fear your tunes will remain safe from my clutches.
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Postby Nordic » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:49 am

Well I'll say this.

I used to get flu shots every year, when I could, because they seemed to bolster my immune system all around, so I would get almost no colds or anything during the winter when I would take them.

Then a few years back, I couldn't find any. The reason -- there was no money in it for the pharmaceutical companies. They just stopped making flu vaccines because it wasn't profitable.

So now? Different story.

Follow the money.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:22 am

Here in Egypt, the Swine Flu is huge news, day in, day out. Panic, panic, panic everywhere, and we are told that our great savior, the Western pharmaceutical companies, will soon make available the precious vaccine that will protect us from this dreaded scourge.

One of my sons' schools has announced its commitment to a 100% vaccination rate for all students and staff, once the vaccine becomes available sometime in November.

Yet, although the epidemic is supposedly here, and there have been a very small number of deaths, in each case there are serious doubts about whether the death resulted from the Swine Flu, or whether there were other reasons (a pre-existing severe heart condition, a too-concentrated and totally uncalled-for injection of Voltarin administered by an idiot doctor to a small child, etc.)

A few weeks ago, when my son developed a 39.5 degree oral temperature along with terrible muscle aches, vomiting, diarrhea, coughing, I took him to the emergency room of a very big private hospital near our home. There, they told me that the government has not made the swab test for Swine Flu available to private hospitals, so I should go to a government hospital. This was at around 6:00 am, but I went in search of the nearest public hospital, where I was told that the swab test was only available during working days, not weekends.

Fed up, I took him home, put him to bed, gave him anti-diarrhea and anti-vomiting medicine, made him drink lots of lemonade and other juices, and let him sleep it off. Within 3 days, he was perfectly recovered.

When my other son got sick with the exact same symptoms around 10 days later, I didn't bother with the doctors and simply repeated the treatment. He recovered within 4 days.

If, indeed as I suspect, they both had Swine Flu, then the panic is vastly exaggerated. Like Nordic said, follow the money. The Swine Flu has proven to be an enormous Cash Cow for the pharmaceutical companies, and will be even more lucrative once this potentially lethal vaccine becomes available, particularly in Third World countries. When their backs are against the wall, even the vaccine's most enthusiastic pushers admit that they don't know what its long-term effects are. As for the Swine Flu itself, after 3 days to a week, the patient not only recovers, but has acquired immunity the natural way.

I have informed my son's school in writing that under no circumstances are they to administer any vaccine or drug to my child, and have told my son to literally fight back, lock himself in the bathroom if necessary, to prevent them, and to use his cell phone to call me immediately so I can get him the hell out of there.
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Postby alwyn » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:24 am

I think the really disturbing thing here is the live viruses that were shipped on a train and escaped. There appears to be more mortality on the other side of the world from it. I'm wondering if there are two events going on, one bio-engineered, and one 'native'...

just paranoid :shock:
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Postby lightningBugout » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:54 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:When their backs are against the wall, even the vaccine's most enthusiastic pushers admit that they don't know what its long-term effects are. As for the Swine Flu itself, after 3 days to a week, the patient not only recovers, but has acquired immunity the natural way.


Alice, first off, I am so very happy to see you back lately. You're one of my favorites, as I think you know. And that daily life advice thread is so great and so understated.

Yes. I wholly agree with you in spirit. And I know you've been through very scary shit with your son in the past. But please try to understand -- there are more than usual kids here in the states who have died and many more who've gotten very sick. Healthy kids with no underlying conditions. Most are fine but some are not. They have not recovered after 3 days, as 99% do. And pregnant women, due to the morphology of their preggers bodies' are also at risk. People with obesity and diabetes ditto and people like me, if to a much lesser degree with conditions like asthma.

In a nutshell, this virus burrows much more stubbornly and deeply into the lungs than most. It stands to be very deadly. And whether or not it chooses to do so is largely simply a matter of luck.

Of course the pharmaceutical companies are evil. But there is so much other grist for the mill as far as they are concerned. Like say 90-95% of psychotropic drug administration.

I come back to this again because I know alot of people that I trust with my whole being who work in public health. They would all recognize your anecdote about the healthy kids who slept it off. But they would also point out that, big business aside (as if it ever is), there are a variety of very real risks with h1n1.

On this board and in the larger deep politics world, there is simply so much suspicion going around this one. And I fear it is largely misdirected. It seems to me that, if there is one very clear villain here it is industrial animal farming. The pharmaceutical companies are surely more than happy to make a fuckload of money off it and are, I am sure, happy to stoke whatever fires of paranoia and suspicion they need to. But the bug is quite real. And so far its virulence (contagious-ness) has been well demonstrated.

Damnit. I like you so much I had to respond (and say HI) and now I'm late for my party. I'm wearing a ridiculous halloween costume as I type this.....

Alas - so glad to see you back. Best, LBO
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covering their butts...

Postby Username » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:51 am

~
Not to worry lbo. If you should die after receiving the vaccination, it was only a coincidence.

LINK

Side effects not always due to swine flu shot
By MARIA CHENG (AP Medical Writer)
From Associated Press
October 30, 2009


LONDON -Hundreds of people on any given day will die, develop the paralyzing Guillain-Barre syndrome or have spontaneous abortions, and that doesn't necessarily mean that their swine flu vaccination shot was to blame, a new study says.

As millions of people worldwide begin getting the new swine flu shot, public health officials are bracing for rumors about dangerous side effects linked to the vaccine.

To provide context, experts combed hospital databases and population samples in Britain, Canada, Finland, the United States and elsewhere to find daily baseline rates of commonly reported events like Guillain-Barre syndrome, sudden deaths, seizures and abortions. The research was published online Saturday in the British medical journal Lancet.

They found that in Britain, for every 10 million people who might get the swine flu shot, about 22 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and 6 unexplained deaths will likely occur within 6 weeks of vaccination - and probably won't be caused by the vaccine.

In the U.S., experts expect that for every 1 million pregnant women who get the swine flu shot, 397 will have a spontaneous abortion within a day.

Only if the rates of these events exceed these baseline numbers should experts suspect the vaccine might be responsible.

"People die every day for lots of reasons, but we tend not to think about that when a mass immunization campaign is happening," said Steven Black of Cincinnati Children's Hospital in Ohio, one of the paper's authors. "We're not saying we don't need to look at vaccine safety, but let's do it judiciously."

Black, like several of the study's authors, received grants from companies that make swine flu vaccine.

Mass immunization campaigns for diseases like measles and yellow fever have frequently been undermined by rumors that the vaccines cause dangerous side effects.

Still, rumors may also mask legitimate vaccine concerns. In Nigeria, fears that the oral polio vaccine causes HIV were unfounded but concern about the vaccine was not entirely unwarranted: it does cause polio in rare instances. [I have collected numerous articles through the years about the vaccination program in Nigeria and it's not as simple as that. They have every right to be suspicious of the white man's medicine, as we all should be.]

"The greatest danger ahead is that there will be coincidental events between (swine flu) vaccination and adverse health events and people will draw conclusions that are not based on science," said Leonard Marcus of Harvard University's School of Public Health, an expert not linked to the study.

Marcus said health officials must be vigilant in case any unforeseen side effects do pop up.

"When side effects happen to an individual, it's devastating. And it's human nature to want to link it to a recent vaccination," Marcus said. "But it's also possible to be compassionate without leaping to conclusions."

Of the thousands of people so far who have received the swine flu vaccine worldwide, no side effects more serious than a sore arm, fever, or muscle pain have been reported.

---

On the Net:

http://www.lancet.com

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
oops...were they talking to me?



We don't do vaccinations.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:01 am

God, lbo, what a sweet letter! How can I not be affected? Ok, I'm impressed with your arguments and the risks apparently vary wildly from individual to individual and even from country to country. However, there is something that seriously raises my hackles about the relentless hysteria being drummed up about this virus, and the heavy-handed way the vaccine is being pushed.

One reason for my intense skepticism is that I contrast all this hoopla with the almost total silence here about a much, much more serious scourge that is a genuine epidemic in Egypt, and has been continuing to spread for decades: the Hepatitis C virus. Hepatitis C is not only very contagious through blood and other body fluids, it is a debilitating disease that renders its victims unable to work, raise their kids or have a normal life. Its mortality rate dwarfs by far that of the Swine Flu, usually from liver failure or liver cancer. Not only does it make the victims' lives into a relentless hell, it destroys entire families and is steadily and insidiously eating away at the very fabric of society, all under a blanket of silence and indifference. The current "treatment", generally Interferon, is insanely expensive and even for patients with the means to pay for it, the rate of recovery is very low. The article I linked to above, was written 9 years ago, in 2000. Today, the rate of infection exceeds 18% in urban centers and 50% in the poor rural areas, and continues to rise.

If a tiny fraction of the money and effort that is being expended to fight the comparatively harmless Swine Flu, were dedicated to fighting Hepatitis C, I have no doubt that millions of lives that have been destroyed would have been spared the agony of this disease, and future generations would be safe. Instead, we're trying to kill a mosquito with a big gun, while a shark is eating away at our legs. That raises a lot of questions in my mind, and the answers are deeply frightening. What you say makes sense, perhaps, in a First World context, but what you cannot be expected to know is that it makes far less sense in the specific context of Egypt, and perhaps in other Third World countries ravaged by severe malnutrition, toxic and even radioactive waste and far more lethal diseases than Swine Flu, including the leading cause of death among infants in many poor countries: "common" diarrhea, from sewage-contaminated water, about which little is said and NOTHING is done.

P.S. I've been late to parties at my own house, because I was posting here. It's terrible in a wonderful way. What was your costume?
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Postby erosoplier » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:01 am

On a side note, did we all know that they use chicken eggs to make flu vaccines? I didn't until recently. Weird.

And also, the local doctors have been organising everyone into groups of 20 for their swine flu shots, the story being that the vaccine comes in a batch of 20 and they have to shoot 'em all within a matter of hours after breaking a batch open. Don't know why, exactly. I should try to find out more about this, but it occurred to me that this particular vaccine may be missing some kind of preservative which is normally used, and so it may be safer than other vaccines, perhaps. This may only apply to vaccines in my area, not yours, though.

Good point about the comparison with Hep C, Alice. And scary statistics, too. Swine flu is on the backburner where I am. I haven't heard of any new cases in the last few months in my neck of the woods, but the vaccine has come on stream, so everybody is lining up to get it.
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Postby Sweejak » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:49 pm

Nordic wrote:Okay, I've been looking more deeply into this, and I can find absolutely no substantiation of the Joseph Moshe angle. He may have just been a nut. Then again, the reaction of the law enforcement to this middle-aged man in a red VW Beetle seems WAY over the top.

Nevertheless, the revelation that "WHO Admits to Releasing Pandemic Virus into Population via 'Mock-Up' Vaccines". Why? They admit it -- to speed up the regulatory process, so money can be made!

So at the very least, this entire thing is just another corporate scam, with the willing corruption of the WHO.

At its worst, well, just don't take the damn vaccine!

And did anyone in this country even notice this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8234533.stm

Pfizer Agrees to Pay Largest Healthcare Fraud Penalty in History




US drugmaker Pfizer has agreed to pay $2.3bn (£1.4bn) in the largest healthcare fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice.
It comes after the firm was found to have illegally promoted four drugs for uses which had not been approved by medical regulators.

A subsidiary of the firm pleaded guilty to misbranding drugs "with the intent to defraud or mislead".

US officials said Pfizer would have to enter a corporate integrity agreement.

I don't know this blog, FYI, but Moshe Joseph is again coming under some scrutiny.

http://davidrothscum.blogspot.com/2009/ ... eased.html
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Postby lightningBugout » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:58 pm

erosoplier wrote:And also, the local doctors have been organising everyone into groups of 20 for their swine flu shots, the story being that the vaccine comes in a batch of 20 and they have to shoot 'em all within a matter of hours after breaking a batch open. Don't know why, exactly. I should try to find out more about this, but it occurred to me that this particular vaccine may be missing some kind of preservative which is normally used, and so it may be safer than other vaccines, perhaps. This may only apply to vaccines in my area, not yours, though.


As I posted above, the large batches of vaccine that are being used right now do not contain the mercury-containing compound called thimerosal. Thimerosal has been associated (not always convincingly) with autism and is one of the primary reasons why many well-meaning parents opt out (or consider opting out) of having their kids receive immunizations.

Everyone is so rightly paranoid that I can practically see AJ and his sad fans screaming about being "organized intro groups of 20" and inventing some nefarious reason reminiscent of Nazi Germany or Tuskegee. Just as some did with the needle size which, I am largely convinced, has a perfectly banal explanation.
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