12 dead in Fort Hood shooting spree

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Postby smallprint » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:06 am

Percival wrote:On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.

"I don't know why he listed Palestinian," Khan said, "He was not born in Palestine."




Oh boy. Many (most?) Jordanians have some Palestinian roots or relatives.

In fact, CNN just a few seconds ago called his parents "Palestinians."


I'm positive his real middle name will be revealed to be "Sirhan Sirhan"!



on edit: Some smarmy Army psychiatrist from Ft. Irwin is saying on CNN that the military is developing a new support program called--get this-- "Brain Strong."

Brain Strong!! Army Strong!! Hulk Smash!!!
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Postby Percival » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:41 am

:rofl: :rofl:
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Postby elfismiles » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:42 am

Mass killings overshadow Killeen-area deaths involving soldiers
Austin American-Statesman - Tim Eaton
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/n ... enbox.html

Fort Hood shootings not Killeen's first brush with tragedy Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 5a17b.html

Massacre is 2nd Killeen-area mass killing Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6706183.html

Tragically: Killeen Has Been Through This Type Of Horror Before NPR
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/200 ... en_th.html
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Postby elfismiles » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:50 am

Military has made effort to help troubled soldiers

By ANNA M. TINSLEY

atinsley@star-telegram.com

The Fort Hood community knows all too well how stress and pressure can take a tremendous human toll, as soldiers deploy more quickly to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have stretched on for years.

The base has seen its share of incidents, including suicides, leading its former commander, Lt. Gen. Rick Lynch, to speak out this year about problems some soldiers experience when they come home.

In the past year, suicide rates are up, domestic violence has increased, and at least a dozen deaths reported at Fort Hood since last summer were suspicious, officials have said.

At the same time, more than 500 Fort Hood soldiers have been killed since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, according to statistics from The Associated Press.

Part of the cause may be post-traumatic stress disorder, some experts believe. Another part, though, may be the stressful life soldiers lead.

"It’s the stress level involved in the very existence of soldiers — not only the actual day-to-day stress but the context they live in, of military preparedness," said Kenneth Sewell, a psychology professor at the University of North Texas in Denton. "Not only is violence part of their daily existence, but the very normal denial that we will not die, which most young people have, is not available to young soldiers.

"They are confronted with their mortality."

The Army recently reported 117 suicides of active-duty soldiers since January, compared with 103 during the same period last year.

Specific numbers for Fort Hood were not released, but base officials launched a major effort to relieve stress and prevent suicides.

"All our efforts often come down to one soldier caring enough about another soldier to step in when they see something wrong," Brig. Gen. Colleen McGuire, director of the Army Suicide Prevention Task Force, said at the time.

Here are some cases of violence at or near the base:

Two soldiers were arrested after a fight that led to a shooting at a late-night party in Killeen in August. One person was killed.

Spc. Ryan Richard Schlack, 30, died in July after a specialist allegedly shot into a crowd in a Fort Hood housing area.

In September 2008, police investigators said that after a lieutenant and his staff sergeant went to a soldier’s home one morning, a fight broke out and the soldier shot the lieutenant. After police fired at the soldier, he turned the gun on himself.

In 1997, the FBI arrested two men and confiscated a truckload of rifles, ammunition and explosives. The men, Michael Leonard Dorsett and Bradley P. Glover, had ties to radical militia groups and were accused of planning to attack the base during Independence Day festivities. Dorsett and Glover were later convicted in federal court on weapons charges. Each was sentenced to five years in prison.

In nearby Killeen was the deadly 1991 Luby’s shooting, which left 23 dead and more than 20 injured before the shooter — George Hennard, 35 — killed himself. The shooting gave the city beside the base the notorious distinction of being the site of the deadliest mass shooting in the U.S., until the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings.

Staff writers Darren Barbee and Mike Lee and researcher Cathy Belcher contributed to this report.

http://www.star-telegram.com/texas/story/1741093.html
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Postby elfismiles » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:52 am

Texas military base gunman 'harassed'
ABC Online - ‎36 minutes ago‎
An army major who killed 12 people at a United States military base today reportedly faced harassment because of his religion and was about to be deployed ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 735631.htm

A Helper With Worries of His Own
Wall Street Journal - Ben Casselman, Ann Zimmerman - ‎25 minutes ago‎
Coming Deployment to Iraq Said to Have Upset Maj. Hasan, Who Specialized in Treating Other Soldiers By BEN CASSELMAN, ANN ZIMMERMAN and MIGUEL BUSTILLO The ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125748027248433099.html

Suspect in Fort Hood shootings attended mosque in Silver Spring
Washington Post - William Wan, Michelle Boorstein - ‎52 minutes ago‎
An Army psychiatrist opened fire at a processing center at Fort Hood near Killeen, Tex., killing at least 11 soldiers and wounding dozens more. ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05543.html

Base Hit by Stress Disorder, Suicides
Wall Street Journal - Yochi J. Dreazen - ‎56 minutes ago‎
WASHINGTON -- Fort Hood, the base stricken in Thursday's shooting rampage, is the largest US military facility in the world -- and a ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125747341095832795.html

Students remained on campus for more than 5 hours
Houston Chronicle - ‎2 hours ago‎
AP Texas News © 2009 AP FORT HOOD, Texas — About 2600 Killeen public school students who attend classes on Fort Hood remained on lockdown for more than five hours ...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6706243.html
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Postby compared2what? » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:03 am

When I put that first terse post up there, I was in too great a state of dread to elaborate on what exactly looked bad to me, out of basic childish jinxing superstition. But I've gotta say that at the moment it looks about one million times better than I was anticipating. And while nothing would make me happier than if I kept being proved ever more cumulatively wrong, I'd settle for the current state of play in a New York minute. There's no way for it to be good, but as it stands, it doesn't look like it's going to be exceptionally superfluously bad, to me, anyway.

For one thing, there are no officials coming forward with suspiciously easily discovered evidence of terrorist plotting, almost as if they'd coordinated the whole thing in advance.

For another, both The New York Times

Image

and The Washington Post

Image

are hewing closely to the least alarmist and disruptive bias by emphasizing the stress of repeated deployments on a military force that's unequal to the demands placed on it. At least in their ledes. Which is a huge, huge indicator of what the MSM just reflexively assumes to be the common-sense explanation and therefore safely reportable as fact. Which is an equally huge, huge relief wrt this particular story, if not wrt the criminal inadequacies of the MSM in general.

In connection with which, absent a really major anomaly or very prominently sugestive pattern, the 1001 constantly shifting factual errors on anything in the general area of number of shooters, victims, shots fired, firearms used, etcetera doesn't strike me as at all out of line with what the conditions under which they're trying to ascertain those facts -- ie, they're probably mostly just repeating whatever they were told by people who were themselves just repeating whatever they were told by eyewitnesses. Because that's the best access it's possible for any of them to get to a military base that's in emergency lockdown. In which case, they really should hold off on reporting anything. Because eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. As they once would have done, prior to the acceleration of the news cycle by cable television and the internet. Which they're too fucking stupid to realize doesn't actually mean that under all circumstances, you absolutely have to get shit out as quickly as you can in order to stay competitive, absolutely without exception all the time, regardless of the quality or verifiability of said shit.

So if the rest of the choir is just singing the same tune they were already singing from their usual respective perches, as it appears, that's not nearly as goddamn bad as it could be, imo. Being thankful for small blessings, and all that. In a just world, this either wouldn't be shocking news or the shocking conditions that led to it wouldn't still be in place years after they'd been so thoroughly documented in the public record that they weren't really contested by anyone. But that's just pipe-dreaming. Like I said, I'll take the better than nothing that's available now and shout hallelujah if that's as good/bad as it's going to get.
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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:27 am

Oh, perhaps your much less alarmist approach is sensible c2w and thank you for sharing it.

I do agree that there is nothing damning about the conflicting reports which emerge in the immediate aftermath of an event like this one. Back when it took more than 3 minutes before the entire world found out about an event like this, I imagine those details had already been straightened out by the time they were widely broadcast. I see no red herring swimming in that pool.

Yet I'm not entirely sure why but I'm having a much stronger intuitive sense that something here is not right than I usually do with these things. I tend to think both Columbine and Virginia Tech were the result of mentally disturbed kids. Perhaps its simply his being a psychiatrist that troubles me so much and a personal bias of some kind. Not sure. And not sure its entirely rationally defensible but something about this and especially about the seeming phoniness of that Col.'s interview are making me much more suspicious than I am usually prone to be.
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Postby km artlu » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:34 am

Curious about this:

I live in the country; only get the major networks. As the story broke I left it alone until tuning in to the now much-degraded Nightline on ABC. A major portion of video used in their lead portion had an imprint overlaid reading, "Dept. of Defense".

What exactly would the upside be for the military to have provided their own video coverage of this event? Apparently the base has in-house camera crews, perhaps even a base cable station?

The universal urge among the executive class to cover their own asses would seem to preclude offering up their own coverage of events unlikely to be seen as a boon to their careers.
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Postby justdrew » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:16 am

one plausible scenario... maybe? it's possible the real shooter got away or was whisked away, they shot the first dark-skinned guy they saw or had this one picked out already, put a throwaway gun or two on him and ginned up the back story. but then he failed to die after four shots, and by then too many insecure-eyes had seen him alive to just shoot him again.
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Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:20 am

Okay, here's what has jumped out at me on this thread, and has made me more nervous than anything else about this story:


But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.

At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

They had not determined for certain whether Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

One of the officials said late Thursday that federal search warrants were being drawn up to authorize the seizure of Hasan's computer.




Doesn't this bother the hell out of anyone else?

Federal Agents were reading a psychiatrist's blog posts where he speculates as to the motivations behind suicide bombings? "Law enforcement officials" were watching him, and were about to confiscate his computer, based on the things that we've read, which are really nothing but someone thinking out loud?

WHAT THE FUCK.

We are so screwed, if we are all being watched to that level.

Which, of course, we are. So we are.

I, for one, hail the courageous leadership from our Homeland security forces!!
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Postby compared2what? » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:21 am

lightningBugout wrote:Oh, perhaps your much less alarmist approach is sensible c2w and thank you for sharing it.

I do agree that there is nothing damning about the conflicting reports which emerge in the immediate aftermath of an event like this one. Back when it took more than 3 minutes before the entire world found out about an event like this, I imagine those details had already been straightened out by the time they were widely broadcast. I see no red herring swimming in that pool.

Yet I'm not entirely sure why but I'm having a much stronger intuitive sense that something here is not right than I usually do with these things. I tend to think both Columbine and Virginia Tech were the result of mentally disturbed kids. Perhaps its simply his being a psychiatrist that troubles me so much and a personal bias of some kind. Not sure. And not sure its entirely rationally defensible but something about this and especially about the seeming phoniness of that Col.'s interview are making me much more suspicious than I am usually prone to be.


Totally agree that the colonel reeks. Also with the sense that something's not right here. I'm just relieved that the colonel is reeking from the depths rather than directing the entire show. And although it's not quite as comforting, also at least a little relieved that the something that feels not right -- which inevitably turns out to be unalloyed evil in some form to whatever degree one's ever able to discover wtf it is -- is still concealed somewhere representing some very bad thing of uncertain size and impact rather than manifesting itself by raging on in flames that are engulfing three quarters of the world right this moment. You know me. I always try to look on the bright side.
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Postby smallprint » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:27 am

justdrew wrote:one plausible scenario... maybe? it's possible the real shooter got away or was whisked away, they shot the first dark-skinned guy they saw or had this one picked out already, put a throwaway gun or two on him and ginned up the back story. but then he failed to die after four shots, and by then too many insecure-eyes had seen him alive to just shoot him again.



Yeah, I think he was "groomed" for this. And the repeated accounts of multiple shooters, including specific locations (such as the theater), plus the obvious fact that one guy is not going to be able to shoot 43 people by himself, tells the story.

I imagine there are a number of soldiers at Fort Hood right now who are being told in no uncertain terms that they didn't see what they know they saw.

As for Hasan still living... where's Jack Ruby when you need him?
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Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:35 am

I'm not saying it was PSYOPS, but IF it was PSYOPS it certainly is pretty damned effective.

And it really bothers me, too, that this happened on Guy Fawkes day.

Like telling people "hey, if you really want revolution, this is what it is. It's nasty, and the revolutionaries are really nothing but mass murdering criminals".

Also, support for the Afghan war is cratering.

They can't have a "real" terror attack, because that would mean they're failing to protect the country and people might actually want the military to be closer to home to, you know, DEFEND the country rather than be somewhere else killing Muslims.

And everything that has already been mentioned. He was really a coward who didn't want to go "fight". He as Muslim. He's Palestinian and God knows all those people are murderous scumfucking terrorists, right (coinciding with the rejection of the Goldstone Report by our very own Zionist Congress).

I mean, if it were PSYOPS, it's just a brilliant and quite thorough example of killing a lot of birds with one stone.

Still, that doesn't MEAN that it's PSYOPS. Sometimes there are happy accidents, right?
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Postby justdrew » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:39 am

smallprint wrote:
justdrew wrote:one plausible scenario... maybe? it's possible the real shooter got away or was whisked away, they shot the first dark-skinned guy they saw or had this one picked out already, put a throwaway gun or two on him and ginned up the back story. but then he failed to die after four shots, and by then too many insecure-eyes had seen him alive to just shoot him again.



Yeah, I think he was "groomed" for this. And the repeated accounts of multiple shooters, including specific locations (such as the theater), plus the obvious fact that one guy is not going to be able to shoot 43 people by himself, tells the story.

I imagine there are a number of soldiers at Fort Hood right now who are being told in no uncertain terms that they didn't see what they know they saw.

As for Hasan still living... where's Jack Ruby when you need him?


well, the number of people hit seems very possible to me as there was a function going on there so people would likely have been crowded in very tightly. there would be little need to even aim.

maybe don't imagine being trapped in a crowed arena, back to front, shoulder to shoulder, marched in tight formation packed in there when the shooting started? no way to even run or duck, if that's what went down, it's going to be tough to get over that even if not hit or killed. A total nightmare situation. and god help us, there's probably video in that case too.

this whole mass shooting thing is out of control and deeply fucked up. if this keeps up, there's going to have to be major changes. this may demand some kind of substantial reaction for better or worse, checkpoints and security guards everywhere just for starters maybe?

this is the first one of these in a long time that's really hit me in the gut.
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Postby smallprint » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:53 am

justdrew wrote:
smallprint wrote:
justdrew wrote:one plausible scenario... maybe? it's possible the real shooter got away or was whisked away, they shot the first dark-skinned guy they saw or had this one picked out already, put a throwaway gun or two on him and ginned up the back story. but then he failed to die after four shots, and by then too many insecure-eyes had seen him alive to just shoot him again.



Yeah, I think he was "groomed" for this. And the repeated accounts of multiple shooters, including specific locations (such as the theater), plus the obvious fact that one guy is not going to be able to shoot 43 people by himself, tells the story.

I imagine there are a number of soldiers at Fort Hood right now who are being told in no uncertain terms that they didn't see what they know they saw.

As for Hasan still living... where's Jack Ruby when you need him?


well, the number of people hit seems very possible to me as there was a function going on there so people would likely have been crowded in very tightly. there would be little need to even aim.

maybe don't imagine being trapped in a crowed arena, back to front, shoulder to shoulder, marched in tight formation packed in there when the shooting started? no way to even run or duck, if that's what went down, it's going to be tough to get over that even if not hit or killed. A total nightmare situation. and god help us, there's probably video in that case too.

this whole mass shooting thing is out of control and deeply fucked up. if this keeps up, there's going to have to be major changes. this may demand some kind of substantial reaction for better or worse, checkpoints and security guards everywhere just for starters maybe?



Even in a place packed like sardines, it takes a LONG time to shoot 43 people (didn't he miss a single person?), he would have to reload multiple times (takes both hands), and... if it was so crowded, how the hell does someone not get him from behind?? I'm sorry, I agree with everything else, but this is ludicrous.

If you don't believe me, try this: count 43 objects in the room where you are right now. Out loud. See how long that takes, and how big a number 43 is. Not plausible. And check out Iroquois' stats on how hard it is to shoot anyone at all with a handgun.

Or was it a "high-powered rifle" after all?

And what was happening in the PX, where all the first reports said the shots were? Or the softball field? Or the theater? Ghosts? A truck backfiring? Someone farted too loud?
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