12 dead in Fort Hood shooting spree

[ninakat]

It's late and I've only skimmed the thread, but I don't recall hearing anyone else finding the TIMING of this oddly convenient for Obama's up and coming Afghan war escalation. Other than Percival.

Isn't this the classic case of when we should be asking Qui Bono, tired as that cliche has become? And the obvious answer is: The military benefits, just when needed -- a little fuel for the fire, right on cue.

[smallprint]

It's late and I've only skimmed the thread, but I don't recall hearing anyone else finding the TIMING of this oddly convenient for Obama's up and coming Afghan war escalation. Other than Percival.

Isn't this the classic case of when we should be asking Qui Bono, tired as that cliche has become? And the obvious answer is: The military benefits, just when needed -- a little fuel for the fire, right on cue.

Well, speaking only for myself, I'm glad Percival pointed it out...it does seem pretty obvious though, that if the military is arranging this psyops, then the military is going to benefit. A big bloodthirsty push for the next deployment, decreased support for Palestinians and of course increased support for Israel, even higher security and more draconian conditions in and around bases, persecution of anti-war advocates and Arabs and Muslims, even more slobbering over idealized military "heroes", etc. Not to mention soldiers being simultaneously stigmatized as PTSD-having basket cases, while every military therapist will be studied as a potential traitor...

[lightningBugout]

Oh, perhaps your much less alarmist approach is sensible c2w and thank you for sharing it.

I do agree that there is nothing damning about the conflicting reports which emerge in the immediate aftermath of an event like this one. Back when it took more than 3 minutes before the entire world found out about an event like this, I imagine those details had already been straightened out by the time they were widely broadcast. I see no red herring swimming in that pool.

Yet I'm not entirely sure why but I'm having a much stronger intuitive sense that something here is not right than I usually do with these things. I tend to think both Columbine and Virginia Tech were the result of mentally disturbed kids. Perhaps its simply his being a psychiatrist that troubles me so much and a personal bias of some kind. Not sure. And not sure its entirely rationally defensible but something about this and especially about the seeming phoniness of that Col.'s interview are making me much more suspicious than I am usually prone to be.

Totally agree that the colonel reeks. Also with the sense that something's not right here. I'm just relieved that the colonel is reeking from the depths rather than directing the entire show. And although it's not quite as comforting, also at least a little relieved that the something that feels not right -- which inevitably turns out to be unalloyed evil in some form to whatever degree one's ever able to discover wtf it is -- is still concealed somewhere representing some very bad thing of uncertain size and impact rather than manifesting itself by raging on in flames that are engulfing three quarters of the world right this moment. You know me. I always try to look on the bright side.

Sunny side up, yep. And your point is very well taken on this one. But then I have to nay say a bit and wonder whether or not the comparative lack of blatancy might inversely correlate with the degree of evil waiting to snowball out of this one. Presumably, if it were a PSY-OP, they've got to be getting pretty good at pulling them off more smoothly at this point. We shall see I suppose. Or not at all.

Nordic, I'd be much more troubled by the feds (or the military) reading his relatively benign posts if I actually believed they had done so rather than were simply saying so in order to cover their asses. And if they had been, they should have been more appalled by his inability to spell and or clearly represent his ideas with any semblance of acceptable grammar than anything else. Did think the PDF he linked to was interesting though, but I don't think he wrote that, correct?

As for the timing, well, I can't think of a single moment in the past year (at least) when the timing would not have felt as though it were blatantly connected to what was happening in ye ol military industrial complex. Seriously, name a date and look back at what was happening in Iraq or Afghanistan. Or try to imagine the speculation that would have resulted from the Right claiming this event was a wag-the-dog related to something going on domestically.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Apparently a BLOG POSTING of his:

NidalHasan 5 months ago
There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that "IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE" and Allah (SWT) knows best.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:bE ... =firefox-a

This doesn't read like it was written by a psychiatrist. Or an American soldier, for that matter. Or an American who's lived his whole life in America.

"...jumped on the grave..." instead of grenade. Interesting typo. And would an American soldier refer to American soldiers as if he was not himself an American soldier? Maybe for an anonymous internet post, I'm not sure. Just sounds a bit like a cop in The Wire saying, "I'm going to get in that police car and drive down to the police station and hang out with all those policemen."

On Websleuths one of the earliest comments is from someone who was watching the live feed on CNN, who mentions seeing what they thought was a gunman outside the dollar general store. A general store is not a theatre. Or a brain surgery unit. Or any other of the numerous locations mentioned.

The number of people he hit, unless using a semi-automatic, is simply incredible. But since Seung Hui Cho, I suppose we're just meant to accept that one guy can shoot 43 people in a very short space of time with handguns.

And he was using two handguns? Max Payne?! Maybe he went into bullet-time.

But maybe the real question is not: how does a man shoot 43 people on an army base so much as ... how does he survive afterwards?!? How can that happen?

As well as the Virginia connection, authorities rushed in from Austin and Waco. But it's 100 miles away.

[SonicG]

But maybe the real question is not: how does a man shoot 43 people on an army base so much as ... how does he survive afterwards?!? How can that happen?

Crap, back to being flip but how does this fare against the typical NRA argument of, "If only the victims had been packing?" I know- I imagine not everyone on a military base is carrying a weapon but still it is somewhat bizarre.

Oh dear...a very long convenience store video from the morning of the shooting with Hasan dressed in typical garb of an A-rab....
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.suspect/

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Crap, back to being flip but how does this fare against the typical NRA argument of, "If only the victims had been packing?" I know- I imagine not everyone on a military base is carrying a weapon but still it is somewhat bizarre.

I wonder if graduation/deployment/whatever day was chosen specially because fewer people would be likely to be carrying their weapons. It seems the rules on carrying weapons on army posts are actually stricter than in a lot of civillian areas, odlly enough. Maybe he shot the civillian policeman first - ironically, he may have been the most likely to also be armed.

Damn, that video is not going to help US Muslims one bit.

I wonder if, in his work with PTSD sufferers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, if Hasan heard some stories that made him reconsider his loyalties, or helped to push him over the edge - assuming he was pushed over the edge, or was even the real shooter for that matter.

I also wonder where the hell the OTHER GUNMEN are. Early reports can be wrong, sure, but a guy can't be in several places at once.

[IanEye]

Don't you worry - ‘bout what you've done
Don't feel sorry - 'bout the way it's gone …

. Guy Fawkes Day
. Tea Baggers ‘storming the Capitol’ with the intent of ‘making politicians (government workers) fearful’
. The most widely revered government institution (support the troops!) attacked from within

I won’t be at all surprised to see the following:

Obama (Democrat) flying to Texas to be joined by at least one George Bush (GOP) to give the two party message -

"There's nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

All communicators of Mass Media will get behind this message.
Even Fox News can get behind it in their own way because of the convenience that the ‘enemy within’ attacking the government was a muslim.
Rupert Murdoch can easily ‘Morton Downey Jr.’ Glenn Beck. Let Beck go too far, say something stupid and then let the entire Fox News staff denounce him. Then O’Reilly and Hannity look reasonable and fair and balanced

A very watered down healthcare bill will pass. Neither the Left or the Right will be allowed to criticize any aspect of it or else face the 24/7 critique of corporate Media.

Both Ron Paul and Alan Grayson will be told in no uncertain terms to lay off the Fed.

The vibrant discord of Red State – Blue State has been punctured.

Purple Reign – Purple Reign

Brought to you by All State

[AhabsOtherLeg]

The vibrant discord of Red State – Blue State has been punctured.

Purple Reign – Purple Reign

Brought to you by All State

Beautifully put, and a lot to think about there.

It'll be hard to pacify or re-direct the Teabaggers though - doesn't seem like they can have two ideas in their heads at one time, so their aims tend to have a low and slow turnover.

[n0x23]

this whole mass shooting thing is out of control and deeply fucked up. if this keeps up, there's going to have to be major changes. this may demand some kind of substantial reaction for better or worse, checkpoints and security guards everywhere just for starters maybe?

I strongly disagree.

That "solution" is exactly the paranoid mind-set that creates a totalitarian Police State.

You don't eliminate the by-product of oppression by further increasing the level and scope of the oppression.

[23]

I'm puzzled by your statement.

The Teabaggers I know supported Ron Paul during the last election. And didn't support the Purple team.

They were anti-Purple before being anti-Purple became cool for many.

So I'm puzzled by your comment.

You were anti-purple if you took theses folks' advice... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... firefox-a# ... and voted for anyone but The Duopoly.

The Teabaggers whom I know... did exactly that.

The vibrant discord of Red State – Blue State has been punctured.

Purple Reign – Purple Reign

Brought to you by All State

Beautifully put, and a lot to think about there.

It'll be hard to pacify or re-direct the Teabaggers though - doesn't seem like they can have two ideas in their heads at one time, so their aims tend to have a low and slow turnover.

[n0x23]

Even in a place packed like sardines, it takes a LONG time to shoot 43 people (didn't he miss a single person?), he would have to reload multiple times (takes both hands), and... if it was so crowded, how the hell does someone not get him from behind?? I'm sorry, I agree with everything else, but this is ludicrous.

It's a deployment readiness center, they were packed in there like sardines, or the DMV on a really, really bad day.

But they weren't just "people", these were physically fit, trained and combat-ready soldiers.

[JackRiddler]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x6941915

"In Washington, a senior U.S. official said authorities at Fort Hood initially thought one of the victims who had been shot and killed was the shooter. The mistake resulted in a delay of several hours in identifying Hasan as the alleged assailant."
---------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Hasan had been treating 2 US Privates who were CO's (conscientious objectors) They had been in his office.

If Dr. Hasan had pre-planned this.. would he not have targeted senior military officials? Seems to me that if I held the rank of Major... I would have the ability to get more "bang-for-the-buck", rather than to just open fire at random? (imho)(just sayin')

Is it possible that Dr. Hasan was a victim and the real shooters were the two CO's who were found dead?

I don't believe a word of the Offishul (sic) Army story. I hope Dr. Hasan recovers and is able to talk.

On NPR just now the reporter from Ft. Hood said military was trying to work out many confusing details, especially to figure out how many people may have been killed in friendly fire from the law enforcement.

(On its face the idea that some were is not at all ridiculous.)

Response to the first of the "tinfoil" invocations on the above DU thread:

Yeah, like the idea that Pat Tillman was shot by the enemy...

Or that Jessica Lynch went down firing, was mishandled and held as a hostage requiring a special rescue operation (rather than treated by doctors who happened to be Iraqi).

Or that brass all the way up to a Republican, Bush-appointed secretary of defense would conspire to propagate lies about such serious matters as part of propaganda management, even after it was obvious that they couldn't get away with it.

Not taking a position on this case, which is still developing, but pointing out the necessary skepticism with which an institution that daily wages psychological warfare operations on the American people must necessarily be approached. Let people have their ideas for now.

[elfismiles]

And it really bothers me, too, that this happened on Guy Fawkes day.

HO-LY-SHIT!

I can't BELIEVE I didn't think about that... off to google AND:

News results for Guy Fawkes day shooting
http://www.google.com/search?q=Guy+Fawkes+day+shooting

Fort Hood shooting on Guy Fawkes Day‎ - 14 hours ago
It should be noted (as others like Ali Eteraz already have) that today is Guy Fawkes Day - the anniversary of a plot by a Catholic dissident to blow up the ...Beliefnet.com -
http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2 ... -fawk.html

Fort Hood shooting on Guy Fawkes Day - City of BrassNov 5, 2009 ... MAJOR UPDATE: news outlets are reporting that the shooter is not dead as previously reported, but alive and in custody.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2 ... -fawk.html

[23]

Where is Hugh M. when you need him.

Hypnosis is a key component of the treatment that they provide at Walter Reed.

Military Psychiatrists Key Part Of Trauma-Treatment Team
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/38/18/5

(excerpted)

"We also used an array of medications and brief interventions including hypnotic and cognitive reframing techniques," said Wain.

(excerpted)

He uses hypnotic techniques including visual imagery to augment analgesics for soldiers experiencing uncomfortable physical sensations after their limbs are amputated. "One soldier who experienced ‘phantom limb’ said he felt his toes were crossed and he couldn’t uncross them. I taught him a hypnotic technique that distracted him from that sensation," said Grammer.

[chiggerbit]

Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" — before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.

Wasn't there a member here who used to say something similar, maybe "Allah Akbar", all the time?