MC and delusions (loads of TRIGGERS)

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby DeltaDawn » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:55 pm

It's a little hard to follow this thread, because it's taken sooo many directions...but Must state my opinion to a few that have written here:

First for 'real' victims, this is hard to discuss and frightening to talk with others about....yet this site has so many I know 'understand' that I must state what I believe to be true!!!

LPT: I sooo agree it's just too exhausting to even try and argue with....there are those who 'know' and those who argue through ignorance!!!

LBO...you 'soooo get it'!!! hang in there with us that are still trying to grasp straws to our past.

Cordelia: I believe you have insight to what sooo many of us want to understand. Stick with the site please!!!

Evutech?? (may have blog name wrong) You have the right info because you speak with knowledge of 'alpa', 'beta' and 'theta'....u r 'right on' and monentarily...I'm just too stunned and afraid to speak of these 'alters'!!

Friends, don't let this subject fall to the wayside, give me time to catch up and recuperate from realizing.....there are folks out here that 'actually' understand!!!

Good work RI!!!!!!...Let truth prevail!!!!!
For we have not been given the spirit of fear; but of love, peace and a sound mind
User avatar
DeltaDawn
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:07 pm
Location: USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby n0x23 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:56 pm

1. Claiming that people here are "fawning" over symptoms of DID (which doesn't even make sense.)


You're conveniently taking it out of context, of course.

2. Saying. "It would seem that the "wounded victim script" is used as a defensive when convenient."


Which is absolutely true.

3. Claiming another poster threatened to "face r___" someone else. Particularly after she had deleted her post out of regret and a mod had reprimanded her.


She DID say it, regardless if she retracted it and then she claimed that I was twisting her words, which is just a blatant lie.
Yet ironically I'm the one who was reprimanded for saying the gender neutral "Whore" word which means..."A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain".

4. Being warned by the very owner of the whole damn place about your language.


It wasn't about language, it was about gender.

5. Telling a woman offended by your use of the word "whore" that she has issues related to sexism and is "projecting" on you.


Again, you're conveniently cherry-picking, she claimed that I was was an anti-woman, misogynist, filled with animosity and venom, hurling vomit at a female newscaster.
Which couldn't be further from the truth, Gender is irrelevant to me.

Dude you have a history right here of mind-fucking (point #5),


That's your interpretation, but you are completely wrong.

bringing up sexual assault very inappropriately (point #3),


She said it, not I.

carrying on despite two mods independently warning you of rule violation (point #4),


I'll plead ignorance on this one, I simply don't know what you're talking about.

belittling self-identified survivors as attention seekers (point #2)


Belittling?
No, not even close.
I'm blunt, honest and straight forward and some people take offense to that, but I have not intentionally belittled anyone.

and that the dynamic here is on in which survivors are being coddled by weak-minded enablers (#1).


Again, a misrepresentation of what I said and the intent behind it.

Forget about your stated intentions and let the record show that you are highly disrespectful and, at times, threatening.


Threatening?

You're so full of shit. :lol:

Go back to JREF.


Shills and brain-dead sheep, no thanks.


Honestly, I have a great interest in the Mind and the theory of Mind Control, but it's become quite apparent that this thread is about neither, it's about clinging to and identifying as transitory events, stagnation and seeking solace within the past.

Which is most certainly not for me.

So in all sincerity, good luck.
"No God no Brahma can be found
No matter of this wheel of life,
Just bare phenomena roll
Dependent on conditions all."
n0x23
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby operator kos » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:18 pm

TOOL-Parabola

This thread reminded me of this short video, which others interested in mind and memory might enjoy.
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Peregrine » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:21 pm

n0x23 wrote:
3. Claiming another poster threatened to "face r___" someone else. Particularly after she had deleted her post out of regret and a mod had reprimanded her.


She DID say it, regardless if she retracted it and then she claimed that I was twisting her words, which is just a blatant lie.
Yet ironically I'm the one who was reprimanded for saying the gender neutral "Whore" word which means..."A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain".


Bullshit. I did NOT imply that, you twisted it by stating, your words verbatim: Besides, don't you have to go and rape someone's face, like you threatened last night?

I'd made an unfortunatelly tasteless joke related to the nancy grace photo & joking about photoshop. Reading back on it, it ws tasteless, I'd corrected it & spoken to the mod through pm about it. You are stating, whether sarcastically or in poor humour yourself, that I'm threatening sexual assault.
User avatar
Peregrine
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:42 am
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:26 pm

n0x23 wrote:it's become quite apparent that this thread is about neither, it's about clinging to and identifying as transitory events, stagnation and seeking solace within the past.


Bullshit. The thread is about the use of the terms "delusion" and "paranoid schizophrenia" as linguistic regimes for the suppression of dissent. And its further about the problem of two different phenomena sharing the same keyword despite their very striking differences.

Your judgmental characterization of the psyches of strangers is pathetic at best and flat out hateful at worst. It strikes me as though you know next-to-nothing about the well-documented history of non-consensual psychiatry.

If you did, you would recognize that, regardless of the efficacy of achieving "control" over the mind of a subject, something as simple as using trauma to achieve repetitive physiologic disturbance based on Pavlovian responses in so-called "survivors" is not, at all dependent on the existence of "mind" from a rationalist standpoint. And you're smart enough to understand that.

I am, glad to hear you've decided to move on and I genuinely hope you take the opportunity to start a new thread specifically about the "theory of mind."
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:55 pm

lightningBugout wrote:And its further about the problem of two different phenomena sharing the same keyword despite their very striking differences.


I've been trying to figure this out since you made reference to it in the beginning of this thread. Could you clarify?
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:09 am

Some people report being abused as children by doctors, scientists, military members and intelligence agents who were part of a network that participated in "mind control" experimentation. Arguably, enough such experimentation has been documented (esp. as it did include child subjects) as to make such claims plausible, even in the absence of specific individual evidence.

Another group of people report they are being harassed by surveillance, "gang-stalking," and various high-tech weaponry. While there is some overlap, the vast majority of people in the first group report that the primary negative effects of their experiences come from past, internal conditioning, etc. While the vast majority of the latter group believes they are being assaulted by external, nefarious elements, in the here and now.

Arguably those phenomena reported by the latter group bear resemblance to delusions of external control and manipulation as reported historically by paranoid schizophrenics.

While things like electromagnetic weaponry and surveillance have been documented as extant, reason to believe that such things have been used against civilians in the United States in any substantial number is limited. Though I am speaking primarily based on what I have gleaned anecdotally.

Both are, at times, referred to as "mind control."
Last edited by lightningBugout on Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Crow » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:52 am

lightningBugout wrote:Some people report being abused as children by doctors, scientists, military members and intelligence agents who were part of a network that participated in "mind control" experimentation. Arguably, enough such experimentation has been documented (esp. as it did include child subjects) as to make such claims plausible, even in the absence of specific evidence plausible.

Another group of people report they are being harassed by surveillance, "gang-stalking," and various high-tech weaponry. While there is some overlap, the vast majority of people in the first group report that the primary negative effects of their experiences come from past, internal conditioning, etc. While the vast majority of the latter group believes they are being assaulted by external, nefarious elements, in the here and now.

Arguably those phenomena reported by the latter group bear resemblance to delusions of external control and manipulation as reported historically by paranoid schizophrenics.

While things like electromagnetic weaponry and surveillance have been documented as extant, reason to believe that such things have been used against civilians in the United States in any substantial number is limited. Though I am speaking primarily based on what I have gleaned anecdotally.

Both are, at times, referred to as "mind control."


Do people make FAQs anymore? Because what you wrote here is a very useful and concise introduction to the subject.
User avatar
Crow
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:59 am

Good question but I fear I don't know enough about the various intricacies and ins-outs of the surveillance, harassment history to risk speaking on anything resembling authority. Despite my own obvious skepticism, I know that Julianne McKinney, who ran the Electronic Surveillance Project in MD was quite convincing and had found allies among some veterans of Navy MK experimentation.

This may be helpful, old as it is.

-----

Mind Control and the Secret State
Daniel Brandt
From NameBase NewsLine, No. 12, January-March 1996


The Internet is a prodigious source of information, but using it has been compared to "trying to sip from a firehose." Access to this flood of data comes at a price: Net researchers spend much of their time sifting the valuable from the dubious from the insane. Never has this been more true than in dealing with Net resources on the topic of mind control.

To begin with, there is the problem of definition. "Mind control" has been taken to mean many different things, and all these definitions have their advocates on the Net. Some of the discussion on the Internet involves the purported harassment of individuals for the purpose of disorienting them, or decreasing their ability to discuss issues of importance. This includes the use of less-than-lethal technologies such as microwave or ELF irradiation, sonics, and other techniques. Ed Light and Julianne McKinney argue that such harassment is real.

Other research and commentary on the Net concerns individual mind control by means of what I call "structured abuse," and what L. Ron Hubbard once identified as "drug/pain/hypnosis" conditioning. Discussions on this topic can be found on many pages related to satanic ritual abuse, alien abductions, and the "false memory syndrome" debate. This area is where my research efforts are concentrated.

Exploring mind control on the Net is complicated by the fact that many of the most active participants claim they are also victims. Their intensity is understandable; if I had been subjected to the abuses claimed by these authors, I would certainly want to publicize them. Ed Light hosts the Freedom of Thought Foundation home page and tells his story there. Alan Yu has contributed extensively to the alt.mindcontrol Usenet newsgroup on this subject. Another self-identified victim who has posted extensively is Glen Nichols.[1]

Many of the claims that such people make may seem incredible. Still, we know that in the past intelligence agencies have committed crimes they called "research." The Rockefeller Commission and the Church Committee in the 1970s exposed some of the horrors of the CIA's MKULTRA programs, and it remains extremely likely that much more remains hidden.

Having spoken to several purported survivors of trauma-based mind control who had significant although not conclusive corroborating evidence, I am inclined to give these people the benefit of the doubt. Many survivors of conventional abuse endure additional suffering because of their difficulty in revealing what happened to them, and in persuading others of the reality of their abuse. I try to achieve a balance between acceptance of and skepticism toward survivors' stories, and then try to seek independent corroboration.

The Net is a particularly fertile field for anyone investigating possible links between satanic ritual abuse and mind control. There's a Net site that supports every imaginable position, from False Memory Syndrome Foundation's iron-clad skepticism to fundamentalist pages proclaiming tens of thousands of abuse victims per year.[2] My own opinion is that the application of "structured abuse" to young children, combined with classical conditioning techniques, could create alternate personalities that could be easily controlled and manipulated. This would not require complex technology, only secrecy and ruthlessness.

Any group capable of such techniques would see "benefits" in the existence of such slaves. Some claim that purported "satanic ritual abuse" can be a cover for experiments by intelligence agencies. My own opinion is that this claim ought not to be rejected out of hand. The CIA has a record of distancing itself from morally-indefensible operations by using fronts and cutouts. A similar case has been made for "alien abductions." Perhaps the best-known discussion of possible links between mind control and alien abductions is Martin Cannon's monograph "The Controllers," available in several forms from many sites.[3] Cannon claims that some alien abductions are cover for mind-control efforts, and represent an attempt to deal with victims' memories of such procedures. Variations of Cannon's view can be found in Usenet discussions of "alien abductions" as cover for the implantation of microchips to track and/or control individuals. Again, even these claims seem to me to deserve airing. The CIA has a history of attempting to manipulate the existence of cults and other mass- psychological phenomena to advance its objectives.

And the same could be true of the Internet. On the Net, information flows rapidly, and is often impossible to verify. Anonymous rumors can easily be inserted into the data-stream. Paranoia about poisoned sources can easily overtake a researcher. As a topic for serious discussion on the Net, "UFOlogy" already seems to have self-destructed, and "mind control" may be next. The welcome freewheeling quality of Net discourse is offset by the possibility that important subjects can be trivialized, and then disappear.

What is a researcher on this topic to do? Valuable though the Net and its e-mail community are, the Net's greatest value remains that of a pointer to other sources: potential interviews; journals; and, yes, even books.

1. Ed Light runs the Freedom of Thought Foundation home page at: http://members.gnn.com/fivestring Glen Nichols' and Alan Yu's stories can be found there as well.
2. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation is at: http://iquest.com/~fitz/fmsf/ Hopeful Hands, a religiously-oriented satanic ritual abuse page is at: http://www.mother.com/~clburger/hopeful/homepage.htm
3. The Controllers is available at: http://www.lablinks.com/sumeria/cosmo/control.html

Thomas Porter, from Winston-Salem NC, is a software engineer by necessity and a researcher by desire. He is the author of a Web site titled "Government Research into ESP and Mind Control" at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/T_Porter

Sidebar from NameBase NewsLine, No. 12, January-March 1996:
Mind Control and the Internet
Tom Porter

http://www.namebase.org/news12.html

-------------

Mind Control and the Secret State
Julianne McKinney


Last September [1995] the CIA confirmed the existence of a 20-year, $20 million research program in "remote viewing," a subvariety of extrasensory perception. On October 29, a Jack Anderson column added more details, and Ted Koppel of ABC's Nightline weighed in with a program on November 28, by which time many newspapers and wire services had picked up the story. By December, a number of pundits began lamenting this additional evidence of the CIA's protean power to waste taxpayers' money.

Curiously, "remote viewing" was an old story, first reported by Anderson himself on 23 April 1984. Other Anderson columns of U.S. and Soviet interest in psychic research date back to 1981. Anderson's October 29 update reported that this project, which for a time was contracted out to the Stanford Research Institute (SRI), had been scaled back and put under Pentagon sponsorship, but nevertheless continued. Although the results of these experiments were reportedly mixed, the project retains its defenders in Congress: Sen. Claiborne Pell (D-RI) and Rep. Charlie Rose (D-NC). By 1995, Anderson didn't have an opinion on the merits of this research, but his 1984 column was supportive. On Nightline, former CIA director Robert Gates implied that pressure from members of Congress drove the CIA's original involvement.

Another of Ted Koppel's CIA guests, identified only as "Norm," was a technical advisor for CIA deputy director John McMahon and, until 1984, a coordinator for the SRI tests. "Norm" did mention the "eight-martini" results from some experiments; this was an in-house term for remote- viewing results so uncannily successful that observers needed eight martinis to recover. Still, the general impression from Koppel's show was dismissive. Only about "fifteen percent" of the experiments, panelists repeated, produced accurate results. Gates argued that such research, if undertaken at all, belongs in the academy.

Not for the first time, however, there's more to this story than Ted Koppel acknowledges.

Ingo Swann, who was involved in the SRI project from 1972-1988, is upset with the media's droll treatment of this revived story. Swann points out that the original motivation behind the "remote viewing" project was the fear that the Soviets were investing significant resources in applied psychic research, and might be making advances. At the time, at least, such a rationale would have been considered a plausible one to justify such a small expenditure of intelligence money. Nevertheless, almost all mention of this element of the story, which had figured prominently in the first wave of stories on "remote viewing," was dropped in 1995.

Furthermore, Swann claims, the "fifteen percent" figure, established early in the SRI project, represented the baseline accuracy for non-gifted and untrained persons. U.S. intelligence wanted sixty-five percent accuracy, and in the later stages of the project, Swann claims, "this accuracy level was achieved and often consistently exceeded." According to Swann, the key players in the project, and the documentation supporting the real story, remain under the strictest security constraints.

However this may be, Anderson's October 29 story reminds us that ESP is very much alive as an object of intelligence-community interest. In addition to "remote viewing" (seeing people, places, and events at a distance in space and time), another area of interest is the supposed power of "micro psycho-kinesis" or "Micro-PK" -- the ability to affect small objects, such as electrical systems, by using the mind. Micro-PK is one step away from outright telekinesis, and its supposed power has obvious attractions for the CIA. Imagine being able to erase a computer tape from a block away, or interfere with the avionics of a jet fighter, or detonate a warhead.

Based on the evidence that's on the public record, the dream of harnessing such power, or even of establishing its existence, may be somewhat optimistic.

But this fact hasn't stopped a strange band of specialists, many of whom have government connections, from staking out careers at the intersection of, so to speak, ESP, the Pentagon, and the CIA: where people interested in parapsychology work with those interested in weapons research and mind control. These would-be psi-spooks turn up occasionally on talk shows and at conferences on "nonlethal defense." Their ranks include companies like PSI-TECH in Albuquerque, founded by Maj. Edward A. Dames, and figures such as Col. John B. Alexander of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, who was featured in the February 1995 issue of Wired magazine. Dames and Alexander and a dozen more blend in with spookier types who shun publicity but who show up at UFO and New Age gatherings. One is ex-Naval Intelligence officer C.B. Scott Jones, a former aide to Sen. Claiborne Pell.

Once again, it's likely that Ted Koppel doesn't have the whole story. It's also likely that he wouldn't be cleared to report it if he did. Still, the piddling pool of dollars so far devoted to this research strongly implies that, if the figure is accurate, intelligence-funded parapsychological research has been a bust.

The uncounted millions the CIA has spent on mind control suggest just the opposite. As with "remote viewing," the attraction of a successful mind control program to the CIA is obvious, and has long been explicitly acknowledged as such. The "Manchurian Candidate" scenario -- in which a programmed zombie-assassin responds to a post-hypnotic trigger, performs the act, and does not remember it later -- is one ideal type of successful mind control. A reliable truth serum, long the object of a CIA quest, would be another. Both of these are operational uses of mind control, its so-called "second front."

This term comes from former CIA director Allen Dulles. In 1953, Dulles, speaking before a national meeting of Princeton alumni, distinguished two fronts in the then-current "battle for men's minds": a "first front" of mass indoctrination through censorship and propaganda, and a "second front" of individual "brainwashing" and "brain changing." Before an audience of fellow Ivy Leaguers, Dulles skipped the usual pieties about democracy. The same year, Dulles approved the CIA's notorious MKULTRA project, and exempted it from normal CIA financial controls.

The distinction between Dulles's "two fronts" eventually becomes difficult to sustain, like the distinction between, say, sociology and psychology. Still, this distinction can be useful in roughing out a spectrum of known mind-control techniques.

For example, one powerful tool for inducing ideological and behavioral change is social pressure in a controlled environment. The "brainwashing" employed during the Korean War did not involve the use drugs or hypnosis. The Chinese merely used the same techniques that they employed on the population at large, but with more intensity, greater control, and additional rewards and punishments such as food and sleep deprivation. Yet this frighteningly simple program was enough to crank up the brainwashing scare in the U.S. Some researchers now suspect that this hysterical episode had its origins in CIA-generated propaganda, designed to give the CIA the political space needed to research more sophisticated mind-control techniques.

Many undergraduates learn about the experiments conducted by Solomon Asch in the 1950s, which demonstrated that expressed opinions can be easily manipulated by social pressure, even in obvious cases, such as whether Line A is longer than Line B on a particular card. And Stanley Milgram showed that many unwitting research subjects would administer a series of escalating electric shocks to another, even to the point of an apparent heart attack, simply because a white-coated lab assistant asked them to continue. Milgram's research suggests that a "Manchurian Candidate" already exists in many of us, and that all that's required to bring him out may be a bit of propaganda. The historical evidence for blind human obedience that could be cited here is very familiar, and very depressing.

Still, there's evidence that Pentagon planners are uneasy about potential unruliness among the mass populations Dulles identified as mind control's "first front." Princeton alumni may perhaps follow and accept arguments that U.S. interests are at stake in Bosnia, but their sons are unlikely to be on the scene defending those supposed interests. The urban or Appalachian infantryman, and the family he comes from, may have other ideas.

Elite unease on this point may lie behind Pentagon enthusiasm for the new wrinkle in military force that goes by the name "nonlethal" or "less-than-lethal." Its very claim to embody a "humanitarian" form of warfare is a weapon in Dulles's "battle for men's minds."

Nonlethal technology becomes important in a discussion of mind control, as it involves something very close to it, in a form which might be used to control large populations. The propaganda aspect of "humanitarian warfare" is merely a sideshow; it's the technology itself that enlists the enthusiasm of Pentagon planners and law enforcement officials. Much of this "friendly force" technology involves electromagnetic fields and directed-energy radiation, and ultrasound or infrasound weapons -- the same technology that's currently of interest in brain-stimulation and mind-control research.

A partial list of aggressive promoters of this new technology includes Oak Ridge National Lab, Sandia National Laboratories, Science Applications International Corporation, MITRE Corporation, Lawrence Livermore National Lab, and Los Alamos National Laboratory. In the 1996 defense authorization bill, Congress earmarked $37.2 million to investigate nonlethal technologies. And this money looks like a mere ante in the game.

U.S. interest in this "less-than-lethal" technology dates back to the early 1960s, when the State Department became aware of low-energy microwave radiation directed at the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Under the name "Project Pandora," secret research into the Moscow radiation continued for ten years -- before embassy employees were informed that they were on the receiving end. Researchers initially assumed that the microwaves were designed to activate bugging devices. But when a large number of illnesses were reported at the embassy, a review of Soviet scientific journals revealed that the Soviets believed microwaves affected cell membranes and increased the excitability of nerve cells.

Officially, the incidence of illness at the embassy was ultimately blamed on the U.S. shortwave transmitting antenna on the embassy roof, which leaked energy and contributed to the unhealthy environment. Still, the secrecy surrounding Project Pandora encouraged further speculation within the U.S. intelligence community and elsewhere. For instance, researchers knew that a low-energy microwave beam could be modulated with an "audiogram," and actually convey a recognizable message into an irradiated brain. This led some U.S. spooks to suspect that the Soviets had been attempting to practice mind control on the embassy staff.

Such history brings us back to the situation of the restless public in our own jittery, pre-millennial U.S. Today, there seems to be a dramatic increase in the number of "wavies," those who feel they are being harassed by non-ionizing radiation such as radio or sound waves. Nevertheless, there is little evidence to support their belief that the secret state, despite its obvious interest in nonlethal technology, is supporting applied research on unsuspecting average citizens. Several alternative explanations suggest themselves.

First of all, the treatment of mental illness over the past few decades has changed dramatically -- from an institutional approach, to an out-patient, community-based system that relies on prescription drugs to control symptoms and behavior. Greater numbers of sufferers of paranoia, freed from institutions, are also free to exercise their First Amendment rights. Furthermore, the power to express oneself has been enhanced by technology -- everything from personal photocopying machines and desktop publishing, to fax machines and now the Internet. And on the Internet, almost everyone can find soulmates.

And "wavies" can make the case that they deserve the benefit of a doubt. Revelations about the Cold War secret state, from the CIA documents released in the 1970s to last year's Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments (which investigated ionizing radiation only), have produced a social environment in which it can seem difficult to rule out anyone's claim, no matter how paranoid-sounding. Finally, there is the modern problem of "pollution" in the broadest sense: from electromagnetic and chemical, and including simple noise. Human reactions to this pollution, which is a new phenomenon in the history of our species, apparently vary by orders of magnitude. Those who are ultra-sensitive may feel harassed, even if no one is intentionally targeting them.

To a disinterested observer, the claims of the "wavies" are perhaps no more bizarre than the claims of those who have experienced profound religious conversions. The point is not to belittle anyone's beliefs, but rather to establish that social factors often determine what we consider to be credible. For thousands of years societies have found it useful to allow sufficient space for religion. Only recently has social space opened up for the claims of "wavies." The increase in their numbers is thus predictable, irrespective of whether the secret state is behind their problems or not. (It isn't, in my opinion.)

This brings us to the "second front" mentioned by Allen Dulles in 1953: the technology of mind control applied on an individual level. Whereas non-ionizing radiation can be "broadcast" to large populations, techniques such as psychosurgery, implants, and electronic stimulation of the brain (ESB) are administered on a case-by-case basis. More exotic techniques, whose scientific status and potential effectiveness remain uncertain, include radio hypnotic intra-cerebral control and hypnotic dissolution of memory (RHIC-EDOM), and the use of induced "screen memory" and multiple personality disorder (MPD) for cover purposes.

The closest parallel to the "wavies" within this second front include those who feel that implants were forced on them, sometimes during childhood. Such beliefs obviously tap deep fears in the popular psyche. The season premier of "The X Files" showed FBI agent Scully discovering that someone had planted a microchip near the base of her skull. And accused Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh apparently claims that an implant was inserted under his skin, for tracking purposes, during the Gulf War.

Identification implants, which are passive devices that respond to an energy source and return an identification number, are similar to the bar codes at the checkout counter in a grocery store. Today's pet owners can have these devices implanted in their pets. But anyone who confuses this simple technology with a chip that tells them what to do is already in trouble. Such a person should consider turning off the television, logging off the Internet, and checking out a few books from the local library. ID technology is ominous for those concerned with surveillance and privacy, but it has little to do with mind control.

Granted, there are experimental "stimoceiver" implants that can stimulate the brain through electrodes. Mind-control enthusiast Jose Delgado became briefly famous when he stopped a charging bull in its tracks with such a device in 1964. Even allowing for electronic miniaturization since then, or for the fact that finely-tuned microwaves can achieve the same results as implanted electrodes, ESB would still seem to be impractical as a mind-control device. At best it appears to stimulate various emotions, and might be used for behavioral conditioning in a controlled environment. This is still quite crude as a control device. It would be simpler and more reliable to arrange a fatal accident.

The combination of surveillance technology and implanted aversion therapy conjures up the vision of a society of victim-robots, with monitors on every utility pole and computers administering the conditioning. But the necessary infrastructure would be frightfully expensive.

And no doubt unnecessary. Sufficient control over the flow of information in society can yield results very similar to those that could be achieved by mind-control implants installed in every individual. Thus the flaw in the reasoning of many researchers: the mind-control techniques that have them so worried are usually the most difficult techniques one can possibly imagine. For those who would seek total control, plain, old-fashioned information control -- leavened with a few fascist techniques -- will do nicely, thank you.

In 1973, former MKULTRA researcher Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West, from the Department of Psychiatry at UCLA, convinced California and federal officials to sponsor a Violence Center. Governor Ronald Reagan mentioned the proposed Center in glowing terms in a speech on January 11, and the federal Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA) approved a $750,000 grant. By this time the federal government, through LEAA, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), the Bureau of Prisons, and the CIA, was operating or funding numerous behavior modification programs in prisons, schools, and hospitals. In response to protests from UCLA students and faculty, the LEAA announced that it would ban the use of its funds for "psychosurgery, medical research, behavior modification -- including aversion therapy -- and chemotherapy."

A year later Louis West was still hoping to obtain funds from NIMH, but by then it was too late for his proposal. Until the 1970s it was not unusual for mental health professionals to propose programs that would screen children for the purpose of early diagnosis and treatment of the potentially violent. But by the 1970s the trend was in the other direction, as some states enacted laws that made it more difficult to confine someone involuntarily as a mental patient. By the 1990s the shoe is securely on the other foot.

Twenty years ago it was fashionable for clinicians to blame urban unrest and similar phenomena on the behavior of individuals. Now, however, the individual can disclaim responsibility for his actions by blaming external agencies. Numerous persons have gone public with accusations of strange events during their childhood, suggesting that they were used as guinea pigs for mysterious men in white coats. Some of their evidence seems sufficiently solid to require further investigation, and more cases are emerging all the time.

On 15 March 1995, two patients of New Orleans therapist Valerie Wolf testified before the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments. Although this was outside the purview of the Committee, they were permitted to testify because some of the names of CIA-connected researchers they mentioned were already familiar to the Committee. These two women remembered sessions when they were around eight years old that involved electric shocks, hypnosis, shots with needles, x-rays, sexual abuse, and even training in intelligence tradecraft. One case occurred from 1972-1976 and the other in 1958. This testimony was not covered by the media.

Although the recollections of the two women were spontaneous and did not involve regression therapy, there is also a cottage industry developing around memories of child abuse in general. For the most part these are not connected with government research, and perhaps many are the result of questionable techniques used by social workers, therapists, police and prosecutors to elicit testimony from children. Juries are becoming more skeptical of many of these cases. This issue has even assumed the dimensions of a religious crusade -- Christian fundamentalists worry about evil in the New Age movement, and are on the lookout for cases of "satanic ritual abuse" of children. Others believe the CIA has turned children into split-personality sex slaves for operational use.

In 1992 the False Memory Syndrome Foundation began in Philadelphia. This organization criticizes the practice of regression therapy when it's used to bring out memories of traumatic childhood experiences. FMSF considers these repressed memories of incest and sexual abuse to be objectively false, and devastating to family life in general. There's a growing split over this issue among psychology professionals. To confuse the situation further, FMSF has some on their Board of Advisors who may want to cover up their own work. One is Louis West, another is Martin Orne, one of the key MKULTRA researchers in hypnosis, and a third is Michael Persinger, who did research on the effects of electromagnetic radiation on the brain for a Pentagon weapons project.

Regression therapy could be a threat to the techniques the CIA may have secretly developed involving the use of hypnosis. Shortly after Pearl Harbor, George Estabrooks, chairman of the Department of Psychology at Colgate University, was called to Washington by the War Department. As one of the leading authorities on hypnosis, Estabrooks was asked to evaluate how it might be used by the enemy. In 1943 he wrote a book, expanded in a second edition fourteen years later, that included a discussion of the use of hypnotism in warfare. In his opinion, one in five adult humans are capable of being placed in a trance so deep that they will have no memory of it. They could be hypnotized secretly by using a disguised technique, and given a post-hypnotic suggestion. Estabrooks suggested that a dual personality could be constructed with hypnosis, thereby creating the perfect double agent with an unshakable cover.

Estabrooks' theories regarding hypnosis are disputed by many experts today. Frequently the entire topic is dismissed with the notion, promoted by Martin Orne and others, that a hypnotist cannot induce a person to perform an act that this person would otherwise find objectionable. But this in itself appears to be a cover story; if the trance is deep enough, an imaginary social environment can be constructed through which an otherwise objectionable act becomes necessary and heroic. Murdering Hitler during wartime would not be considered criminal, for example. It may even be easier than this: in 1951 in Denmark, Palle Hardrup robbed a bank and killed a guard, and then claimed that hypnotist Bjorn Nielsen told him to do it. Nielsen eventually confessed that Hardrup was a test of his hypnotic techniques, which included telling Hardrup that the money from the robbery was a means to a noble end. Hardrup had become Nielsen's robot, and Nielsen was convicted.

In 1976 a book by Donald Bain titled "The Control of Candy Jones" was published by Playboy Press. This one-of-a-kind book is the story Candy Jones, who was America's leading cover girl during the forties and fifties. In 1960 Jones fell on hard times and agreed to act as a courier for the CIA. An excellent subject for hypnosis, Jones became the plaything of a CIA psychiatrist who used her to exhibit his mastery of mind-control techniques. This psychiatrist used hypnosis and drugs to develop a second personality within Jones over a period of 12 years. This second personality took the form of a courier who could be triggered by telephone with particular sounds, and after the mission was completed and the normal personality resumed, did not remember anything.

These missions were elaborate, and frequently involved world travel to deliver messages. According to the book, Jones and other victims were once even subjected to torture at a seminar at CIA headquarters, as a means of demonstrating this psychiatrist's control over his subjects.

Jones married New York radio talk-show host Long John Nebel in 1972. An amateur hypnotist, Nebel stumbled onto her secret personality, and began unravelling the story over many subsequent sessions. Author Donald Bain, a family friend, was invited to reconstruct the story from more than 200 hours of taped sessions between Jones and Nebel. Various researchers have confirmed some pieces of the story, but Bain did not name the major CIA psychiatrist involved, nor did he name a second psychiatrist who played a more marginal role. Researcher Martin Cannon recently identified this second psychiatrist as the late William Kroger, who was an associate of Louis West, Martin Orne, and another MKULTRA veteran, H.J. Eysenck. Whatever the truth is behind Candy Jones -- and it's difficult to see the book as an elaborate hoax -- there's no question that hypnotist George Estabrooks raised issues that the CIA took seriously in secret research for at least 25 years.

The MKULTRA implementing documents specified that "additional avenues to the control of human behavior" were to include "radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials." The word "radiation" gave the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments a reason to request a search of records on human experimentation from the CIA. Their final report, released last October, expressed dissatisfaction with the CIA's response, and recommended that the CIA get their act together so that legitimate requests can be accommodated better in the future.

One problem is the compartmentation of the CIA's record-keeping systems. Another is that the CIA immediately decided that the Committee's purview was restricted only to ionizing radiation -- the type of radiation of interest in nuclear testing, as opposed to the electromagnetic and sound waves that might be used for mind control. Finally, those documents that the CIA did release were heavily redacted. The Committee noted that they had "received numerous queries about MKULTRA and the other related programs from scholars, journalists, and citizens who have been unable to review the complete record." In fact, most of the MKULTRA records were destroyed in 1973 by the order of Richard Helms, who waived an internal CIA regulation to do so. It was also the practice of MKULTRA to maintain as few records as possible.

If ESP, waves, implants, satanic ritual abuse and post-hypnotic robots aren't sufficient, recently the subject of mind control has been intertwined with UFOs. Seemingly jealous of the credibility enjoyed by victims of alien abduction, researcher Julianne McKinney promotes the view that the entire UFO phenomenon was created by the secret state. A more thorough researcher, Martin Cannon, also promotes this view. In a long monograph titled "The Controllers," he explains the UFO phenomenon as a "screen memory" cover story induced by U.S. intelligence to protect their own mind-control experiments.

On the other hand, the implicit assumption behind McKinney and Cannon that it must be either/or -- either aliens from outer space or spooks with a bag of secret tricks -- seems arbitrary. If the ethically-challenged U.S. intelligence community has proven anything during the last half- century, it's that they would not find it objectionable to work on behalf of aliens from outer space, and against the interests of humankind.

Another possible scenario is that aliens are real, U.S. intelligence knows more than they are telling, and they send out disinformation agents to keep the issue at merely a low simmer. By muddying the waters with kook-biz, they keep it from becoming officially-credible spook-biz, at which point it might boil over into eschatology, mass hysteria, and vigilantism.

UFO researchers have recently become interested in the Aviary, a group of former and current U.S. spooks, along with some defense- contracting scientists, who may or may not have official status. Apparently the mission of this group is to discredit any serious research into UFOs. Its members include Col. John B. Alexander, Harold Puthoff from the remote viewing project, and Jack Vorona of the Defense Intelligence Agency (formerly the boss of Michael Persinger). The names of others are floating around the Internet as well.

Some Aviarians claim to be UFOlogists themselves, or are friendly and good-natured with other UFOlogists, and some genuine UFO researchers are quick to squabble with other researchers. This makes it nearly impossible to sort out who is disinforming whom, and difficult to distinguish the white hats from the black hats. Since he began looking into the Aviary, British researcher Armen Victorian has been burgled eight times, his car broken into three times, his telephone tapped, and a bug was discovered in his home. All this happened courtesy of British intelligence and police, reportedly as a favor for the CIA.

Something is going on here, and chances are excellent that it's not happening merely for our general amusement. Whoever the men in black turn out to be, it's not the casually-titillated viewer of "The X Files" that worries them. Instead, it's the relentless researchers who track their careers and publicize their deeds, hoping that one day the state will have no secrets, and that those who live off of its impoverished taxpayers will, in the end, be held accountable.

Those involved in parapsychology, mind control, and UFOlogy who have government connections make up a small community; the same names reappear constantly. Ranged against them are the independent researchers -- also a small community. Leaving aside Laurance Rockefeller, who is funding some activity in this area, presumably out of personal interest, there don't appear to be mysterious sums of money floating around. That means the field is open for dedicated researchers with modest resources. And that's the good news, because we need to be watching every move the psi-spooks make.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby exojuridik » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:46 am

Okay here is where I get confused - the field of mind control can be construed broadly enough to cover most topics discussed on RI. Moreover, within the survivor community you have different groups who diagree with one another regarding the validity of their claims. On top of all that there are a number of routes a discussion can take ranging from those concerned with critical inquiry into specific cases/cause to those functioning as survivor support groups.

Now, my question is how can someone broach any of the myriad sub-topics involved with mind control without dragging in the entire inchoate mess surrounding the issue? If someone on a different thread wanted, in the spirit of analytical - not emotional analysis, to bring in elements of mind control that other members feel personally implicated it would seem to be compromised by the feelings of those offended members.

IOW - there seems to be no jurisdictional rules governing the universes of possible discussions within this sprawling debate. This means that any specific discussion will automatically include the entire universe of possible discussions and the conversation will most likely breakdown into personal recriminations.

I don't think it needs to be this way - people approach the subject dismissive/defensively might be doing so from the basis of their own psychological prism. I know many individuals who are intellectually autistic and honestly do not understand how their questions may be taken as presumptious and offensive. Attacking them as sacrifical strawmen helps no one. In this cruel age we are all victims of one kind or another and we should understand our collective need for solidarity/support.

Perhaps this topic is too raw for drawing clear lines regarding approach and subject matter. If so, it is more the pity because regardless the external validity of my own experiences, it doesn't take much to see that some seriously evil shit is afoot in the world - and the masters and practitioners of these dark arts certainly have a clarity of purpose and mission that the MC/survivor community lacks.

Here's hoping for truth&justice and other utopian nonsense . . .
"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
User avatar
exojuridik
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: South of No North
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby blanc » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:40 am

thanks to LP2 and LBO for bringing this discussion back on track - I worried that my cranky responses to a possible derailment might have scuppered it.

Thanks also for delineating the different groups of MC survivor/victim and giving us a working term to separate the categories. That's really helpful.

From the experience and memory of one ra survivor, the perps had enough understanding to state to her 'if you remember, you will go mad, and people will say you have schizophrenia'. She did remember, but has avoided that diagnosis - someone else attacked at the same time as her by the same perps has not. Schizophrenia can manifest states close to the experience of survivors of extreme trauma, and it seems to me that in unhelped survivors the first state of memory flood can morph into a more generalised mental illness; the natural hyper vigilance of someone traumatised in sessions kept covert in their own society can become something close to paranoia; that memory flood, recalled conditioning, or voices which were part of that internal or external reality in torture sessions can become projected on to unrelated situations. A further complication exists in that (in ra certainly) subjects are given to believe that communication direct into their mind is possible.

Yet what we are asked to swallow is that because it is possible that a given delusion exists in some subjects (of having been attacked in a specific way), it follows that all who believe they have been attacked in that way are delusional. Further, that because for some individuals, who were tortured with the use of reality changing drugs/techniques, have a hard time working out what was actually happening, all confused memories are delusions. Like saying that because you have a deluded patient who thinks he's a staff psychiatrist, all persons who think they are staff psychs are deluded; and that because you can't remember every detail of yesterday, yesterday never happened.
blanc
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:00 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

whoa!

Postby Evutch » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:31 am

wow, thanks LBO..
that's quite the report.
i know of some of that stuff.
i read that one womans book about the "training of the two sisters.
had to hide it, don't know where i left it.
it affected me too much.
any ways, back in the thirties, the NAZIs got into this field, because during the chamber mass executions, there were too many incendents of children dissappearing from the chambers. locked chambers.
that's when mengele took over, and introduced the traumatic conditionning.
it seems under certain duress, some kids had the ability to transend not just mental, but physical boundries.
they figured IF they could indentify and train certain prospects, they could generate a new "army".
psychic dimensional warriors.
so what they broke most?
the few that survived and functioned were worth it.
the US picked up on it with paperclip.
hard to say where it's gone since.
but it's there.
here.
i try to limit any comments or such to what i've actually seen.
and i've seen too much.
it still amazes me some of the BIG things that have happened, and people just DON'T know.
more that once in my relating or asking questions for info from or to anyone, i've been pulled aside by chance aquaintences and told to shut up, or risk being killed.

and most of these warnings come from foreign nationals, who seem to have a different mindset than media beaten americans and are more aware of the corruprion of power.

anyways, sorry i don't contribute more, it's become a real heavy weight on me, and i'm just trying to get by day to day these times.
i'm not as F'd with anymore because i fly under the radar..mostly...ok, i do antagonise..
so?
but..
i keep eyes and ears opened.

one never knows.
Deus Pacit Corvus
Evutch
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:45 am
Location: DC
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Col. Quisp » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:09 pm

x
Last edited by Col. Quisp on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Col. Quisp
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:43 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Cordelia » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:41 pm

exojuridik wrote:I don't think it needs to be this way - people approach the subject dismissive/defensively might be doing so from the basis of their own psychological prism. I know many individuals who are intellectually autistic and honestly do not understand how their questions may be taken as presumptious and offensive. Attacking them as sacrifical strawmen helps no one. In this cruel age we are all victims of one kind or another and we should understand our collective need for solidarity/support.

Perhaps this topic is too raw for drawing clear lines regarding approach and subject matter. If so, it is more the pity because regardless the external validity of my own experiences, it doesn't take much to see that some seriously evil shit is afoot in the world - and the masters and practitioners of these dark arts certainly have a clarity of purpose and mission that the MC/survivor community lacks.


As usual, when I began trying to read this thread, along with the articles by Daniel Brandt, and especially Julianne McKinney (I experience continued fallout with one of the principals and players she mentioned, of modern MC), I feel like Dorothy overtaken by the poppies; the words blur, and I get a headache, so I never get very far in these topics. But thank you LBO for starting this thread and thank you, exojuridik, for articulating this so clearly and enabling me to exit the thick fog of the poppies long enough to understand part of my problem with trying to grasp what is inexplicable and what nobody, unless one of the players in these dark missions, can really understand.

I don’t know if trying to separate out the differences in the genres of MC is like comparing apples to oranges, or even if the far different experiences of survivors ‘just’ reflects increasing technological advances and evolutionary changes in the efforts to control the minds of a world population of 6+ billion. Some subjects have had experiences in university and military laboratories, others at Nike bases, through family and cults, because of where they live in proximity to government R&D facilities, or just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And some experiences overlap with others.

But whatever ‘it’ is and however it’s done, it seems to work; the population is controlled, many suffer, and many, many lives have been seriously impacted or destroyed as a result.

Thank goodness, here, there’s at least one corner where survivors, and others who refuse to accept the blinders, can go to try to sort out these questions and find validation by knowing that others are also facing a similar, if not exactly the same, struggle.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
User avatar
Cordelia
 
Posts: 3697
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby LilyPatToo » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:23 pm

blanc said:
...the perps had enough understanding to state to her 'if you remember, you will go mad, and people will say you have schizophrenia'.

Just wanted to comment on the use of deliberately implanted fears of mental illness to control behavior in children who've been subject to systematized abuse. This was used very successfully on me and I can recall feeling overwhelming terror throughout my whole childhood and teenage years of being incarcerated in a mental institution near Blairsville PA called Torrance.

Whoever used that particular threat to keep me quiet also used the threat of having me locked up in jail if I "told." At about the age of 6-7 I had a severe, incapacitating panic attack on the long walk home from school, when I glimpsed the county jail building unexpectedly. But that fear was nothing compared to that of being declared insane. That terror has haunted me all my life and was responsible for my being unable to tell even a trusted therapist about my lifelong "missing time" experiences when I was in my 30's and living thousands of miles away from the town where I grew up.

It seems very unlikely to me that a small child growing up in the late 1940's-50's would develop such a specific and profound fear of a mental hospital all by herself. When I was that age, my family didn't even own a TV set, so it didn't come from media, as far as I can tell.

Re: separating the delusional paranoid sufferers from people who've been worked over by real individuals employing knowledge of mind control techniques--I've noticed that in the case of the former there's often a tendency to report very benign, ordinary encounters with strangers in public--someone brushing against them/sneezing on them/breathing on them--as deliberate assaults. And, more important for the purpose of discerning the MC survivor from the delusional, they lack any awareness that such accusations are in any way unusual.

I've never known anyone with a convincing history of mind controlled exploitation to make those statements. Or, if they too have been subjected to public retraumatization incidents (referred to as "street theater" in the gang stalking community), the encounters would be frightening to almost anyone. And those incidents don't generally include any of the breathing on/bumping/etc. claims as I listed above.

It's by no means a foolproof way to figure out what you're dealing with, though, since actual early torture/abuse can cause schizophrenia. But so far it's given me a rough preliminary means of sussing out a new acquaintance who is making unusual claims. I also highly recommend doing a search for the more usual symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia--this is a good page.

LilyPat
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests