MC and delusions (loads of TRIGGERS)

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Postby Cordelia » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:05 pm

Sounder wrote: This dysfunctional system may after all be brought down by those most directly affected by its unseen negative aspects. If only because built up psychical stress will find outlets eventually.


I took in Willow's caveat about being careful in revealing information and I'm conflicted by what to reveal and what not to reveal on such a public forum. I've been silent for most of my life (including to myself) and I'm just so sick and tired of keeping it all inside (though there are things I'll probably always keep quiet). The more I read of what's written here, the more I understand, not just mine, but other people's painful experiences. And, if survivors communicate their stories only between each other, how can the rest of us ever know?

LilyPat wrote of being cautioned by someone about one's own truth being contaminated by reading others' stories, and I'm very mindful of that in myself. Yet, so much of what she writes about herself deeply resonates with me, even though we most likely haven't been used for the same kinds of purposes and probably had very different experiences. And, Delta Dawn's experiences are different than mine, but some also seem to overlap, for instance, experiences with dentists, as LilyPat also remembered, and the moon analogies, which several posters recognize. I think each of us will know, by intuition, which experiences of others posters fits, and which don't, but nobody can know if these experiences aren't shared.

Plus, even though Brigit and I have communicated for years, here, on this site, I think it's fair to say that reading what other people write brings up things she and I have never communicated to each other about ourselves.
Last edited by Cordelia on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dreams

Postby sw » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:09 pm

I have about two dreams a week where I go to the beach and jewels get washed up. It happens so often, these dreams of jewels in the sand, at the beach...that I know in the dream that it is a good dream.

I rush to the beach to dig up the jewels. Jeweled artififacts, purses full of money, beautiful golden objects...all types of valuables.

When I see the ocean in my dreams, I rush to the sand even if there are hurricane force waves. I always find treasures buried in the sands.

These buried treasure dreams dominate my dream life now. What a change from my past dreams of abuse!

They treasures are sacred and bring great peace.
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Postby Cordelia » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:21 pm

^^What a wonderful dream! I guess there really are buried treasurers. :)
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Postby Brigit » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:08 am

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Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:27 pm

Brigit, I didn't mean to seem as though I was advocating the avoidance of other survivors' writings. If I did, I wouldn't have posted about my own memories here and elsewhere.

That opinion came from the survivor who found and woke me up, Onesmartrat. Whether she was right or wrong isn't known to me, but my own decision, after much thought, was that the good that can come from being open and honest outweighs the danger of contamination of our stories--and does so by a long shot. All the silent readers of this and other MC threads need details in order to begin to unravel the knotty mysteries that are their pasts.

That said, I carefully keep back any information that could get me accessed and possibly silenced by the powerful people who bought, sold and abused me. Finding the fine line between what to tell and what to withhold is incredibly difficult sometimes, but I believe it's always worth the effort.

Loved what you said about the trolls' probable attitude to threads like this:
Maybe the trolls can just consider this a cyber party where a group of desperate people suffering from "serious and persistent mental illness" (to be politically correct) enjoy solace in belonging to a community, which may actually be a good thing for them.

For me, finding other people who are trying their best to cope with extreme-abuse-caused-PTSD is a literal sanity saver. I'll probably struggle all my life to fully understand the negative reaction this provokes in so many otherwise decent, rational folks. It mystifies me, since it in no way impacts them at all, yet they feel compelled to interject their opinion of us and of our claims over and over again. A number of different (and possibly mostly subconscious) motives are probably at play, but the results are incredibly painful for us and, I would think, uncomfortable for them--at least the ones capable of empathy and compassion.

The only constructive response, I guess, is to do our best to not be triggered by their skepticism, to try to answer them as clearly and politely as we can and then to return to our conversation. And the fact that a bunch of PTSDed people have managed to do that here is a wonderful thing. It would have been so easy to have abbreacted into all the other times we've been invalidated and responded with a lifetime's righteous rage. But we didn't and look at the result--an earned place to talk to each other and to reach out to all the lurkers who may not yet be at the point where they're able to join in.

And I'm glad you brought up the difficulty of communicating openly with skeptical family and friends, too. With my probably-ADD husband, I've learned to feed bits of unwanted information to him in "sound bites" of about 15 seconds in length. That's just below his threshold to tune me out and the cumulative effect is to gradually build up a basic understanding of my PTSD and DID/MPD. It's working, too, better than I'd ever hoped.

But with most of my friends, I've given up even hoping for them to ever understand or validate me. With a couple of wonderful exceptions, they've been successfully mass mind controlled into knee-jerk disbelief. And at my age I hesitate to commit to conveying the massive amount of historical information on the mind control programs that they'd need to overcome their skepticism...life's too damn short for me to spend what I have left knocking my head against that particular wall. But I hope that other survivors of systematized abuse will be up to it, for all our sakes.

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Postby lightningBugout » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:10 pm

Just walked my dogs and found that someone had snapped the brake off my motorcycle. An accident? Perhaps but they went out of their way to leave it on my seat. Rote urban adventure? Or something more sinister? 100 to 1 its nothing but its creepy after having posted here last week about my vehicle problems.
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Postby Cordelia » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:47 pm

lightningBugout wrote:Just walked my dogs and found that someone had snapped the brake off my motorcycle. An accident? Perhaps but they went out of their way to leave it on my seat. Rote urban adventure? Or something more sinister? 100 to 1 its nothing but its creepy after having posted here last week about my vehicle problems.


That's awful. If it was deliberately taken off, I think I'd take it personally.

LilyPat wrote: "That said, I carefully keep back any information that could get me accessed and possibly silenced by the powerful people who bought, sold and abused me. Finding the fine line between what to tell and what to withhold is incredibly difficult sometimes, but I believe it's always worth the effort."


I find my skin almost crawling, literally, with a need to write about what I may have been used to do and the places, (though not named, of course) I've worked, minor as I've been in the scheme of things. But maybe that's also part of my programming. How do I know that I'm not programmed to write things that will trigger other people? I'm feeling very vulnerable, sad and angry right now because the holidays are coming up and my brother, who I've been so close to for over 50 years--we survived our childhood together! And we talked on the phone every day, sometimes twice a day, about just about everything, including what happened to us, and about politics, the world, etc.....everything! Four months ago he told me he thinks we trigger one another and we should go our separate ways. And that was that. I really miss him. I'm estranged from all of my family of origin. I'm not trusting anything right now, including myself....
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We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:11 pm

Cordelia, I'm so sorry to hear about your brother's reaction. If my sister had done that, it would have hurt me terribly. But don't take his response to be written in stone, since facing this crap is a long-term process and many, many changes will occur before we're done.

And the truth is that we can never know whether we're unwittingly acting out programming designed to disinform or trigger others. That haunts me every single day of my life and I'd love to figure out a way to be certain that I'm not doing that. But I have a profound mistrust of self-proclaimed "deproggrammers" and haven't found another way to get deeper into my missing time memories or my programming yet. I'm still trying though.

If we say at the outset that we're doing the best we can and carefully evaluate each post before putting it up, then I think we're being mindful of that danger and also respectful of others who may read our words. For all the years that I've known I was a multiple (that happened 9 months before I found out about MC programs), I've gone back over my internet browser's history at the end of the day to be sure that none of my alters took over and posted without my knowledge, too. Best I can do at the time.

lightningBugout, I find what happened to your bike very suspicious, especially in regard to the timing. Please be careful and mindful of your surroundings--I know as I type that that you almost certainly already are, but it makes me feel marginally better to say it to you. And I respect your maintenance of reality testing in the face of a triggering event. Good on you! as an elderly friend of mine used to say.

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Postby Free » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:04 am

LBO wrote:
Just walked my dogs and found that someone had snapped the brake off my motorcycle. An accident? Perhaps but they went out of their way to leave it on my seat. Rote urban adventure? Or something more sinister? 100 to 1 its nothing but its creepy after having posted here last week about my vehicle problems.



This could be suspicious and is upsetting.
I'm embroiled in work and can't write anything right now, but will later. Please be very careful LBO.
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Postby lightningBugout » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:42 am

It was probably a fluke. But it had me on guard all day. Fortunately, I suppose, my neighborhood is Ruff enough that my guard is already pretty elevated. Not like I need to make any major behavioral adjustments to protect my ass.
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Postby Brigit » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:28 am

Oh LilyPat, I am so sorry that I didn't express myself clearly because I was agreeing with you and Cordelia; my impression is/was that you are both advocating for sharing and I meant to underscore the value, but of course with mindfulness of the dangers as you both, and many, have so beautifully expressed. It seems to me that we all support this; Willow, I take your caveat very seriously and appreciate that you were both supporting more open communication with justified warning about potential consequences. My impulsivity is a hazard when it comes to those forces within me that I do not understand or successfully check (not a good combination). I completely relate to your itching to want to tell all, Cordelia.

So much has moved me. I feel so much love and sadness, despair and hope. LBO, your experience with your bike is such a perfect example of how once trust is shattered in a child it is never fully restored and leaves us vulnerable to wondering if we are being gaslighted, if we are lucid or delusional. The upside to paranoia is seeing things that others miss; the down side is not always knowing what meaning to assign to suspicious experiences. I admire how reasonably you have responded to this, your openness to hang with the possibilities and uncertainty. It reminds me of how imbalanced I have become of late, and instead of feeling negated by my family, I maybe need to be more objective about how I am responding to triggers. Cordelia, I don't trust myself either, but I fully trust you. And my heart breaks that you feel in the least bit insignificant. You have given so much of yourself and helped so many people through your courage to speak out; the value of what you have to say and how gracefully you say it knows no bounds. You are one of the most brilliant investigative reporters I know!

I felt so scared when I woke up this morning and decided to ask the universe and myself to embrace all that is good even though it feels so counter intuitive. Recognizing generous and courageous acts is key to divorcing ourselves from those nefarious scripts planted in our minds. Our minds are resilient forests that regenerate. LilyPat, what you wrote about your father has stayed with me. Bless him for finding it in his heart to let you know. His tears were speaking the unspeakable. I imagine them flowing into our sleeping awarness like time release drops of truth.

Wishing you all protection and peace of mind in this precious moment.
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Postby lightningBugout » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:04 pm

I wholly appreciate your note (not just the part about my story, either) but think it should be pointed out to people who may not be familiar with PTSD, since its germane to the OP, that if someone were to characterize my reaction to the bike thing as "paranoia," they would be mistaken. When you have lived for extended periods of time with people who hurt you and manipulated you, you spend a great deal of time trying to figure out what is going on, reading events as meaningful that may or may not be because it is really all you have to go on. Continuing to do so later in life is very normal, at least until you can establish a baseline for a healthy balance of trust vs skepticism. I am not paranoid about my bike -- there is almost no doubt someone fucked with it as the way it was parked made it practically impossible to have gotten hit by a car. Be it because they are a thug, someone with a grudge, or worse. I'd be much more worried about my reactivity if I jumped to any one of those conclusions. What is difficult but inevitable is acknowledging the ambiguity of never knowing.
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Postby stefano » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks to everyone who posted here. This is a subject I know nothing about, although the extent to which these networks control politics is becoming clearer and clearer to me.
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Postby Cordelia » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:30 pm

These recent postings, especially LP, Brigit and LBO, are sparking a lot of connections for me and I'm relieved that paranoia, along with, or alongside, PTSD has been added to this thread because I realize that I Ioften feel in an endless unconscious loop between the two. I think anybody, including someone with no trauma in their background (does such a person exist?), would read IBO's brake as a not-so-veiled threat. I'm also wondering, what is the difference between 'paranoid' and 'delusional' in most people's eyes? Calling someone's reaction to something as paranoid also casts doubt on their ability for rational thinking, but often isn't this really deductive reasoning?
Last edited by Cordelia on Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Free » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:58 pm

Cordelia and Brigit,

I have a lot of thoughts about the things you and others have shared in the past few days but before I write something, I want to make sure I understand where you're coming from...

I'm trying to understand why you're sharing so much personal, sensitive and dangerous-sounding information about yourselves and your family, on the open internet. Please understand that I'm not asking this because I suspect something nefarious, I'm just not sure of what your reasoning is behind this and therefore not sure what I can say that might be of help or support.

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