Hashmatsa ('Anti-Semitism') - The Full Video

[smiths]

canard

funny how that word repeatedly turns up on this forum on this topic

[17breezes]

canard

funny how that word repeatedly turns up on this forum on this topic

Funny, I see it all the time in discussions of whether Jews control shit or not. Is it frowned upon here? I don't really want to break any taboos.

[American Dream]

17breezes, it's hard to believe you really do understand Norman Finkelstein's position as you offered such a gross misrepresentation of what it actually is.

Anyway, after reviewing your previous few contributions here, I'm just not interested in engaging with you further.

However, all is not lost- your position may interest others here more than it does me.

[17breezes]

17breezes, it's hard to believe you really do understand Norman Finkelstein's position as you offered such a gross misrepresentation of what it actually is.

Anyway, after reviewing your previous few contributions here, I'm just not interested in engaging with you further.

However, all is not lost- your position may interest others here more than it does me.

Ok thanks.

[crikkett]

So what other group lost more than 6 million or so at the hands of the Nazis?

FWIW

Jews were targeted by Hitler for eradication but WW2 was not just about eradicating Jews. the Japanese were also brutal to the Chinese and Westerners of the lands they invaded.

My husband's Norwegian uncle, a professor who was arrested attending a protest vs Nazis with his students, died at Natsweiler. My maternal grandfather and an unknown number my family (I'm adopted) is Jewish and escaped from Poland. My adoptive family is black, descended from emancipated american slaves and native americans, and I'll match and raise you point for point in examples of discrimination and oppression, cruelty and inhumanity in my family's heritage... which continues even today.

6M is an incomprehensible number of people and their deaths are a blight and shame on humanity. But ww2 wasn't the first holocaust and it wasn't the last. Native Americans have been almost completely wiped out, not by the Nazis but by European colonialists, some German.

Blacks, Native Americans, and Jews are resentful and rightly so. But Blacks and Native Americans aren't using the horrors of their past to justify new atrocities.

[smiths]

oh come on, i dont really agree with everything 17breezes writes but these comparisons are fucking ridiculous,

the nazi state systematically isolated a single group of people based on race, then turned them into slaves, then attempted to liquidate every single one of them in a vast horrific mechanised process

it is in no way comparable to the indiscriminate killing of the vast amount of the south american population mostly by disease,
it is in no way comparable to the deaths of civilians and soldiers along the russian front in WWII,
etc, etc, etc

and yes, other groups like communists, gypsies and homosexuals wre targeted but they were a drop in the ocean compared to the number of jews

[crikkett]

oh come on, i dont really agree with everything 17breezes writes but these comparisons are fucking ridiculous,

I edited my post, and I'm not exactly interested in making sure it's my best writing (it's late) but the sentiment is there. I was responding to 17's "So what other group lost more than 6 million or so at the hands of the Nazis?"

BTW the Conquistadors didn't wipe out Native S. Americans with disease but through wholesale slaughter.

[crikkett]

I found this very enlightening. Despite extensive experience with the effects of zionist brainwashing, I really knew very little about how the process actually worked, and certainly never from such an 'insider's' point of view.

Thanks for posting the movie.

The teenagers' indoctrination reminded me of methods used by the military.

I think it's important for the kids to know their past and my heart broke at the scene where they're toured through the rooms of stolen goods at Auschwitz. I'd cry in the face of a mountain of hair too.

However, the lies the kids were told on that trip are reprehensible. More than just a boogeyman story to keep them in line, they were made to feel like the world was against them.

[AlicetheKurious]

Now what does that have to do with Finkelstein's archaic canard that a small group of Jews control world opinion and actions? I mean really, even if it's only Zionists he and others refer to isn't it a little ludicrous and deja vu to attribute that much power to such a small part of the world's population?

Bubbie, I'm not usually so blunt with new people, but you're a liar. And a really bad one, too.

All you had to do, sweetums, was read a paragraph or two synopsis of Finkelstein's "The Holocaust Industry" or take 10 minutes to visit his website, to save yourself from such an outrageous misrepresentation of the book's meticulously researched and evidently irrefutable thesis (it must be irrefutable, since its detractors, with the enormous resources at their disposal, have never tried).

You couldn't even be bothered to do that, which means you're not only a liar but lazy. Stupid, as well, because you thought people here weren't the type to notice.

I have read it. It's a pile of shit. Sorry.

Since there were only, uh, 17 of them, I have taken the trouble to read all the posts with which you have graced this discussion board so far (most made up in brevity what they lacked in substance, so it didn't take too long).

What I found was: a pile of shit. Sorry. (Maybe you could call yourself "17farts").

Now, I'm not totally giving up on you, 17farts -- maybe you just need a little encouragement to open your mind so you can learn some new things, and maybe eventually make some valuable contributions yourself.

Native Americans have been almost completely wiped out, not by the Nazis but by European colonialists, some German. What's your point?

I'm only starting now to realize the mind-boggling enormity of the crimes committed against African-Americans over centuries. What I thought I knew was nothing, NOTHING, compared to the reality. A telling detail is that the Nazis and the Japanese actually used some of it in their war propaganda to prove that they were more 'humane' and 'civilised' than the Americans. Yet, not only have these crimes only received a "limited hangout" recognition, and no reparations, of course, but most Americans remain ignorant of their recent history.

Instead, Americans get thousands of books about the Nazi Holocaust, 30 museums and memorials devoted to the Nazi Holocaust of Jews, and hundreds of movies laboriously detailing every type of Jewish suffering and German depravity. The Holocaust is taught to schoolchildren and the U.S. commemorates Shoah Day, while the true barbaric scale of what was done to both Native Americans and African-Americans is literally "white-washed" by books and films and in school curricula.

Meanwhile, the crimes against African-Americans and Native Americans are not something that is safely in the past, but continue to leak their insidious poison into the fabric of American society today, like rusty drums of toxic chemicals buried and ignored.

Is it an accident that the Americans' obsessive preoccupation with the "uniqueness" of The Holocaust, with its companion, the deliberate suppression or sanitizing of what was and to some extent continues to be done to African-Americans and Native Americans, find their expression in both the incredible savagery and bizarre self-righteousness of both the U.S. and Israel's treatment of "sand niggers" and natives in other lands?

I think not. To paraphrase what Finkelstein so aptly says in "Hashmatsa", the "Holocaust" could be taught in such a way as to promote liberty and dignity and human rights for all people, but it's NOT -- on the contrary, it is being deliberately used to wrap criminals in the mantle of "unique", "transcendental" victimhood to enable them to continue to murder and rob people with impunity. To me, that's the worst obscenity of all. Far from learning about the consequences of racist hatred and tribal supremacy, those kids in Shamir's video were deliberately stoked with xenophobia to prepare them to feel no remorse when they participate in war crimes against the victims of their 'tribe'.

As George Carlin once observed (again, I'm paraphrasing), what really made the Nazis so "uniquely" horrible was not so much what they did, but that they dared to do to White people over here what White Europeans had been doing to Brown and Black and Yellow people over there for centuries. The repertory of rationalizations is predictable and trite: "we're a Master Race and we need their land/resources", "they need us to civilise/liberate them", "they're just a bunch of savages/terrorists", and subtle variations thereof. They only seem fresh and new and "unique" when it's Our Side that's using them. Whether it's the French in Algeria, or the Belgians in the Congo, or the British in India, or the Japanese in China, or the Europeans in North America or the Spanish in Central and South America or the Zionists in Palestine and Lebanon, or the Nazis in Europe or the Africaans in South Africa, or the Americans in Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, the actual mechanics of dehumanization and ruthless decimation are soul-crushingly familiar.

It seems history keeps trying to teach us a lesson but we stupidly refuse to learn, dooming ourselves to repeating the same horrors over and over again, while telling ourselves that this time it's "different".

[smiths]

i apologise for veering off-topic but ...

Conquistador and expedition scribe Bernal Diaz described the resultant carnage from infectious disease thus: "We could not walk without treading on the bodies and heads of dead Indians. The dry land was piled with corpses."
In the space of 10 years, historians estimate that Mexico's population plummeted from some 25 million to 6.5 million owing to epidemics of infectious disease – a drop of 74%.
In North America, later events echoed those in Mexico but with one not-so-subtle difference.
By the 1600s, colonizers knew enough about epidemiology to maliciously inflict deadly diseases on locals by providing "gifts" of blankets and clothing infested with smallpox and typhus-bearing lice – the first recorded acts of biological warfare.

http://www.who.int/infectious-disease-r ... 00/ch1.htm

[AlicetheKurious]

i apologise for veering off-topic but ...

Conquistador and expedition scribe Bernal Diaz described the resultant carnage from infectious disease thus: "We could not walk without treading on the bodies and heads of dead Indians. The dry land was piled with corpses."
In the space of 10 years, historians estimate that Mexico's population plummeted from some 25 million to 6.5 million owing to epidemics of infectious disease – a drop of 74%.
In North America, later events echoed those in Mexico but with one not-so-subtle difference.
By the 1600s, colonizers knew enough about epidemiology to maliciously inflict deadly diseases on locals by providing "gifts" of blankets and clothing infested with smallpox and typhus-bearing lice – the first recorded acts of biological warfare.

http://www.who.int/infectious-disease-r ... 00/ch1.htm

It's not at all off-topic. Apparently it was the decimation of the Native population that first spurred the hunting and importation of Africans to work the plantations in the Southern U.S., Central and South America, since unlike the indigenous people, they were considered to be a renewable resource. Some historians argue that in the American slave trade, more than 6 million Africans were killed just on the passage from Africa to America. In other words, one holocaust led directly to another.

[Nordic]

i apologise for veering off-topic but ...

Conquistador and expedition scribe Bernal Diaz described the resultant carnage from infectious disease thus: "We could not walk without treading on the bodies and heads of dead Indians. The dry land was piled with corpses."
In the space of 10 years, historians estimate that Mexico's population plummeted from some 25 million to 6.5 million owing to epidemics of infectious disease – a drop of 74%.
In North America, later events echoed those in Mexico but with one not-so-subtle difference.
By the 1600s, colonizers knew enough about epidemiology to maliciously inflict deadly diseases on locals by providing "gifts" of blankets and clothing infested with smallpox and typhus-bearing lice – the first recorded acts of biological warfare.

http://www.who.int/infectious-disease-r ... 00/ch1.htm

It's not at all off-topic. Apparently it was the decimation of the Native population that first spurred the hunting and importation of Africans to work the plantations in the Southern U.S., Central and South America, since unlike the indigenous people, they were considered to be a renewable resource. Some historians argue that in the American slave trade, more than 6 million Africans were killed just on the passage from Africa to America. In other words, one holocaust led directly to another.

I've done some homework on these fronts.

First, if you haven't read Bernal Diaz' book, you really must. It's one of the most compelling books I've ever read. What a story. Hell, even if it were fiction it would be an incredible epic.

http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-New-Spai ... 0140441239

Alice is quite right about the slave trade, and the reasons for it.

Another interesting detail is that in the early colonial days, labor was in such short supply in America that they would grab anyone they could and make them a slave, if they could pull it off -- including white people from europe. If you passed out drunk in an alley you might wake up on a ship bound for America, to be a slave worker. Or you might just get kidnapped.

But the white people could easily escape and assimilate into the population.

So they started using Africans instead -- because these people couldn't assimilate. Their skins marked them as slaves no matter where they went.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I had a post that i somehow lost. It wasn't that important, but I just wanted to say thanks for posting that link to an awesome and intelligent muso alice.

He's got as great point about the way "Zionism" exploits tribalism, and tho I haven't seen the film, the term antisemitism is itself racist cos antisemitism is just racism, and thats bad enough on its own.

The term antisemitism is a way to isolate jewish people from the rest of the population.

And it works. I hear that there is some "antisemitism" among african americans. If there is, it would be more effective to say "hey man thats just racist. You don't like when white people do it to you." Saying its "antisemitism" contributes to the isolation as much as the initial racism, (same thing happens with Irish catholic working class leftists in Australia in the 30s).

The right in Israel seem to be driving alot of this, and it certainly serves their purposes.

There's nothing wrong with tribalism as such, so long as you realise that ultimately its just a way to recognise where your ancestors come from. But its easy to exploit tribalism to generate a fair bit of power. And thats obviously whats happening with "Zionism", its obvious by its use of the term antisemitism - its typical of the way extreme right wing nuts go about using power.

Its foolish to compare Israel to nazi germany tho, its like compring apples and oranges.

The only similarity is they are both fruit. Unfortunately in this case the fruit looks like genocide.

I remember an actual holocaust victim from the late 90s who, after learning about it, said the only real difference between the Holocaust and the plight of blackfellas was the ongoing nature of the genocide in Australia. He also found no difference between what happened to his lot and the Rom in the Holocaust. As far as he was concerned numbers were irrelevent. In both cases it was systematic genocide.

And he was as appalled by what was happening in Palestine during the provocation that led up to the second interfada. It made him angry and frustrated, and I think he felt more than a little betrayed.

Not cos it was the same thing, but cos people who should know better had the same mentality as brutal thugs.

[seemslikeadream]

The British government murdered approximately 5.16 million Irish men, women and children





Never, ever, forget it!

Learn its British HQ town. As no Jewish person would ever refer to the "Jewish Oxygen Famine of 1939 - 1945", so no Irish person ought ever refer to the Irish Holocaust as a famine.


Is Britain's cover-up of its 1845-1850 holocaust in Ireland the most successful Big Lie in all of history?

The cover-up is accomplished by the same British terrorism and bribery that perpetrated the genocide. Consider: why does Irish President Mary Robinson call it "Ireland's greatest natural 1 disaster" while she conceals the British army's role? Potato blight, "phytophthora infestans", did spread from America to Europe in 1844, to England and then Ireland in 1845 but it didn't cause famine anywhere. Ireland did not starve for potatoes; it starved for food.

Ireland starved because its food, from 40 to 70 shiploads per day, was removed at gunpoint by 12,000 British constables reinforced by the British militia, battleships, excise vessels, Coast Guard and by 200,000 British soldiers (100,000 at any given moment) The attached map shows the never-before-published names and locations in Ireland of the food removal regiments (Disposition of the Army; Public Record Office, London; et al, of which we possess photocopies). Thus, Britain seized from Ireland's producers tens of millions of head of livestock; tens of millions of tons of flour, grains, meat, poultry & dairy products; enough to sustain 18 million persons.

The Public Record Office recently informed us that their British regiments' Daily Activity Reports of 1845-1850 have "gone missing." Those records include each regiment's cattle drives and grain-cart convoys it escorted at gun-point from the Irish districts assigned to it. Also "missing" are the receipts issued by the British army commissariat officers in every Irish port tallying the cattle and tonnage of foodstuff removed; likewise the export lading manifests. Other records provide all-revealing glimpses of the "missing" data; such as: ...

Toll of Irish Holocaust. The 1841 census of Ireland revealed a population of 10,897,449. This figure includes the correction factor established by that year's official partial recount. When, between 1779 and 1841, the U.S. population increased by 640 percent, and England's is estimated to have increased, despite massive emigration to its colonies, by 100 percent, it is generally accepted that Ireland's population increase was 172% 10. The average annual component of this 172% increase is x in the formula (1+ x)62 = 1 + 172%; thus 0.0163, or 1.63%. Accepting that this 1.63% rate of annual population increase continued until mid-1846 (one human gestation after the late-1845 beginning of removal of Ireland's food), the 1846 population was 11,815,011.
Assuming that rate continued, the population in 1851, absent the starvation, would have been approximately 12,809,841. However; the 1851 census recorded a population of 6,552,385; thus there was a "disappearance" of 6,257,456. This population-loss figure of 6,257,456 is scarcely susceptible to significant challenge, being derived directly from the British government's own censuses for Ireland. It is reasonable to assume that the rigor established in the recount of 1841 became the standard for the 1851 census; so that any residual undercount would be systemic, affecting 1841 and 1851 proportionately (and, if known, would increase the murder total). These 6,257,456 include roughly 1,000,000 who successfully fled into exile and another 100,000 unborn between 1846 and 1851 due to malnutrition-induced infertility. Of the 100,000 who fled to Canada in 1847, only 60,000 were still alive one month after landing.11 Among the 40,000 dead was Henry Ford's father's mother who died en route from Cork or in quarantine on Quebec's Grosse Ile.
Thus; though from 1845 through 1850, 6,257,456 "disappeared," the number murdered is approximately 1.1 million fewer; i.e., 5.16 millions. Consequently; if Britain's census figures for Ireland are correct the British government murdered approximately 5.16 million Irish men, women and children; making it the Irish Holocaust. This number, 5.16 million, exceeds the high end of the range (4.2 to 5.1 million) of serious estimates of the number of Jews murdered by Nazis. The least reliable component of the foregoing arithmetic is the number assumed to have successfully fled. If the fleers who survived prove to number, say, 900,000 instead of 1,000,000, the murder count will have to be corrected from 5.16 to 5.26 millions. This amount of adjustment, up or down, of the 5.16 millions murdered is determinable by sensitive review of the immigration records of the U.S., Canada, Argentina, and Australia; and of government records on the Irish who fled to Britain at the time. We invite bona fide documentation of the foregoing; whether in confirmation or rebuttal. Economists and historians are disqualified if their published work on the events of 1845-1850 covers up the British army's central role therein. Such individuals lack the standing to participate in this truth-quest.

To our knowledge nobody else has ever published the above arithmetic or named the food removal regiments and battleships. Evidence that other truth-telling accounts exist would be greatly appreciated. Irish academia shuns and slurs Tom Gallagher's Paddy's Lament and Englishwoman Cecil Woodham-Smith's The Great Hunger for mentioning the Food Removal. Woodham-Smith fudged, but not enough to satisfy the cover-up cabal. For example; she reported that the 1841 partial recount established a correction factor of one-third for the 1841 census figure; but she used the uncorrected figure to calculate! By this and other fudges she arrived at a population-loss of only 2.5 million. She allocated only half a page to the core facts of the Genocide; the food removal data, while using some two hundred pages to describe British government "relief measures" as if they were something other than cosmetic exercises; a cover-up. But just as Telefis Eireann out-Britished Yorkshire TV by refusing to co-premiere the latter's 1993 exposé of the 5/17/74 British bombings of Dublin/Monaghan streets that murdered 33 and maimed 253; and as the Irish police menace the survivors of that bombing instead of arresting the known British perpetrators; so do Irish historians out-British Woodham-Smith by ostracizing her for exposing the Food Removal. They out-do themselves in describing the "benefit" of the Irish Holocaust; how Britain reduced poverty in Ireland ( by murdering those it had impoverished! They promote the notion that only the blighted potato crop belonged to the Irish while Ireland's abundant livestock, grains, etc., all "belonged" to mostly absentee English landlords. By that insane standard all of the property and production of Europe and Asia, excepting starvation rations for workers, would belong to W.W.II GIs and their heirs (or to the Axis had it won).

Irish are not guilty. Though many Holocaust Irish, like many, say, Auschwitz Jews, took deadly advantage of their own weakest, neither the Irish nor Jewish communities had hand or part in the conceiving and planning of the genocides from London and Berlin; respectively. But, the German government repented and paid $100 billion (dollars) reparations to Jews while the British government and its Dublin surrogates still use terror and slander against those who commemorate the Irish Holocaust. It is still dangerous - after 150 years - to reveal the truth of it. ...

Continue

[AlicetheKurious]

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill