Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to blame

by **Dreams End** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:32 pm

Wow, proldic...I think you just asked him to write a book! I assume IR gets the context of your questions but there is so much there, I wanted to step back and put it in simpler terms. All of this is within proldic's questions but maybe I can make it easier for people newer to the subject. Here in the US there are a variety of "opposition" type websites and political groups that are forthright about questioning 9/11, say, or th Iraq war. Often they will provide good information. But if you scratch the surface (and you don't often have to scratch very hard) the prevailing philosophy is that somehow, Israel has secretly gained control of the US power structure. Therefore, it is Israel that is responsible for 9/11 and Israel that got the US to fight the war in Iraq. Because Israel is not nearly as wealthy or as powerful as the US (and would be even much less so without US monetary and military assistance) the only way I can see this being true is if you assume that US Jews are part of the conspiracy. Therefore, much of this simply becomes a conspiracy theory that involved Jews in general, and goes beyond the criticism of the government of Israel. We also have the reality that Israel's government has been involved in, often in partnership with or at the behest of the US, some very shady stuff. Also, I think there are certainly legitimate human rights grievances against Israel re: the Palestinians. Since there are human rights groups in Israel who take the same position, I've never considered this a possible source of anti-Semitism, but certainly any issue which puts Israel in a bad light could be used in this way. It is important to be consistent and to criticize such abuses wherever they occur, however. So there is this confusion. Good people who are beginning to wake up to the realities of what's really going on often get their first taste of that reality from sites that have the "Jews are behind it all" mentality. This not only fosters anti-Semitism, but it has a couple of other handy features as well. For example, it misdirects these honest truth seekers away from culpability of our own government and intelligence agencies. In fact, I think this is often more the motivation behind some of the more sophisticated sites. It also can be used to contaminate and discredit movements and organizations by tainting it with spurious anti-Semitic theories. Finally, it can serve as a handy wedge between progressive Jews and larger progressive movements in the country. This was an explicit goal of COINTELPRO for example as they attacked the Black Panthers. As such, I find much of this stuff to be too sophisticated to be the sole responsibility of rightwing "whackos". So this is the context. It will be interesting to get guidance from a progressive Jewish Israeli about where the line is between legitimate criticism of Israeli policy and anti-Semitic ideology. I would expect a different answer from you than from, say, Sharon (who tends not to post much at RI anyway...heh.) I look forward to watching this discussion and I hope you didn't just get too overwhelmed with questions. Perhaps some good links to progressive Israeli groups and media might be a way to start?

by **proldic** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:56 pm

First off, what relevance does the following have. besides snotty insult value? I wasn't trying to insult you, just questioning the motivations behind your phrasing. "American culture nutures & rewards ignorance. That which isn't societally reinforced is inculcated through industrial foods & the predatory practices of Big Pharma w/ the witting & unwitting collusion of the AMA." I totally agree, and have been fighting for traditional foods for 15 years, and defending the rights of alternative medicine practicioners (whatever disputes I may have within the field) for as many. Just because you think you're right doesn't make me all dumb. That sounds a more than a bit elitist, imo. I'll take it your self-admitted separation from the grass-roots worker in the US has been long and hard, eh? Curious, where have you been living, and what you been doing, that seperated you so much (I'm assuming you're originally from the US) that you alluded to? I was fully aware of the history of Stansfield Turner, just trying to get to your personal take on it, as I think that counts. You missed that. Do you have an opinion as to the effect of Turner's superficial changes? I sensed maybe you thought his reforms were dangerous or wrong. Reading what you've just posted here from Epstein, a notorious CIA-fake, I can only assume that's yr opinion, and that's what I thought. Turner's appointment came as part of a reaction to the Church & Pike revelations, and his so-called "purges", although at the time great public anger was directed at him by the Bush-aligned agents that were given golden parachutes, played into the creation of the plausibly-deniable off-the-shelf shadow government that spawned Contra crack, BCCI, etc. I'm not trying to make Turner out to be some righteous cat, but it's all part of a bigger struggle that was going on at the time. And the support behind his reforms was more genuine and in touch with the desires of the citizens at the time, then the CIA-Bush-scum movement to counter them. I note the similarities to the CIA culture's reaction to Kennedy's threat to "shatter them and spread them to the four winds" (paraphrase) in your opinion as stated here to Turner's superficial "reforms". The Baker point was just me real-time remembering that Baker and Carl Colby, Jr. were both still pissed off about it, and days after 9/11 were blaming the attacks on the "decimation" of intel under Turner. I've been a big fan of Salter for years. My experience with Ruppert was illustrated under the asssumption that you thought he was not a bad apple. I don't think I was "burned" by him, as I said I always had questions and still do, and my break with citing him as a source has been for awhile. Since then the angle represented by the content of questionsquestions has (obviously if you've read my posts) been more akin to my take than not. do think my experiece is reflective of something, mainly how people who support him now might be thinking. Of course, since his PO-depop stance has come full out, he makes it easy to draw the line, so to speak. Chalmers Johnson is member of a rat-pack of subtle CIA-supported disinformationalists who go by the name "The American Empire Project" (Chomsky's another). Their role is to spin interpretations of world affairs away from interpretations that historically sympathetic to Soviet power, and the potential of socialism (reductively-essentially). In fact my research ha sshown evidence that his book "Blowback" was purposefully titled to "smother" awareness of the original "Blowback" by Christopher Simpson, a much more important and damning book that was "privished" at the same time by the CIA-symp publishing industry. "While there remain some anomalous peculiarities about his death speculating on them seems somewhat pointless." Methinks not. Keep removing your cloak, my man. I'm starting to see why you were being purposefully cryptic. God forbid some goon like me tries to reduce it to brass tacks.

by **israelirealities** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:38 pm

first of all, I am a female...-)) I will try to relate to all those questions raised here, this will take a while though. I will compile a list of links to "progressive Israeli sites" but these are only the ones that bother writing in English, and they are far from being representative...but they would give you an idea. In general I am certainly among the NWO "believers", which makes me kind of lonely here, because nobody even knows the term here, and if they did it would be rated as "antisemitic" pack of lies. If I try to really summarize my take on the processes it would be Nazis - USA - Jewish Americans- Israel" (hierarchically), so one would have to return to WW2 models to see that this is a repetition, but more sophisticated. Asking why the Jews/ISrael are cooperating with a way of thinking that will finally lead to their own annihilation is something I haven't figured out yet. I suppose some of the dynamics led to the holocaust. I do not exculpate my people and most of the conspiracies sound pretty plausible to me, knowing the level of plotting in Israel/Jewish American financiers-lobbyists sub-culture. I have my own little quirks with regards to the root causes, mainly having to do with the problem of Jewish feminism (Lack thereof). Or certainly a gender imbalance within the JEwish religion and realities. ZIonism is a bad ideology, and indeed it did not win the hearts of the multitude of jews. The Zionist version as expressed in Israel (there were other offshoots, much nicer) in fact adopts the Nazi's conception of Jewish identity and "solution". On a practical level, the ruling class within political Zionism (and the founders of Israel) were "white trash" in a sense known to you, corrupt to the bones, a bit pagan in their value system, and ruthless. So the level of internal oppression within that group was immense, and I tend to see it as a "cult like" culture with all the unpleasantries inflicted on the members who also have nobody to turn to. If you bear the "cult" metaphore and stretch it as much as you can to a nation state, you get Israel, and this would also enable you to understand that most of the citizens are "victim-perps". This would also explain the auomatism, ignorance, double talk that characterize ISraelis and their military capacities. At my most "extreme" period of dissillusionment I tended to see the entire Jewish people as a dangerous cult, in the sense of inner oppression. (I mean, what the fuck, I don't have to worry about the others - you, I mean - but am more interested in the suffering INSIDE the community.) This structure I think renders Jews susceptible to NAzi waves, like the original one and the current one in the USA, because you can take hold and control only the nerve centers of this social body, in order to sway the entire people to your plans. (I think Bush et al have an intuitive understanding of this fact and that's how they picked their "top Jews", its a version of a "jew baiting" energy, with a twist here and there). What I kept butting into, in dialoging with US progressives (Jews mostly, but not only) is the fact that they just don't want to see it this way, and certainly they are hateful and vindictive enough to ignore immense suffering of Jews at the hands of their own, in and out of Israel. (which they would never do with any other nation, mad group, wackos, cult or tyrrany). Now, i don't expect sympathy or actual help anymore, but I think that if one truly wants to "save the world" or at least be effective, one has to overcome bias and convenient denials and see reality as it is. Dealing with "victims of MC who are perps" is a tricky issue and I don't purport to have solutions. I am not so smart. But it needs to be recognized as such a problem which is different than dealing with perps who are per se, the "real Nazis" in the puzzle. ------ Coming back to dry facts and reality. Israel was a socialist country in its inception, supported by the USSR, but more so influenced by communism, labor unionism etc. I think it is fair to say that the Suez war was the first break from this tradition to LIberal-west European/colonialism...and 1967 t0 1973 were the years that marked the takeover by the USA, to finally become one of the many third world rotten and corrupt puppet countries of the USA. The rise of the JEws in the USA occured simultaneously and as a result of the military take over of Israel. And I do agree that to some extent Israel-AMerican Jews are inseparable. However, there might be some very interesting changes now, as American Jews perhaps start to realize what the consequences are. I tend to bet on ISrael winning over their interest to take a step back from their weird "zionism" (not devoid of financial interests...). As I said I will try to relate to each and every point, but a caveat, my take is on the verge of heresy here, and so I don't represent anything that is "happening here" with very few exceptions (my readers, who amount to no more than a hundred people). I am also not a zionist and JEwish religion does not appeal to me anymore than any other organized religion. In summary, for today's long post, I will say that regretfully for me I cannot refute the worst speculations/fears/paranoia about conspiracies and ruthlessness happening here or from here. I wish I could. However, I still feel that the key to unlocking this problem, which effects the world and the lives of so many, lies ALSO in learning about the intricacies and shades of our reality. The process of how a subjectivity is created that will perform atrocities, plots and what not - is the key factor here. I must have hope that the Nazi elements here will be exposed, isolated and eliminated/cured, simply because I am here and I want to live too. I was simply born here, didn't choose that and I suffer. Since, as the conspiracy goes, most of the key positions all over the world are controlled by Zionists or Bush people, we also have nobody to turn to. in fact, you can imagine, that "traitors" are treated worse than enemies in a cult culture (mostly for practical reasons, to avoid a chain reaction among the subjects..). I can confess that my recent "epiphany" after knowing all I know about MY people is that instead of running away from my identity, I claim myself to be the "salt of the earth" of Israel/Jews, and the others, even if it means 99 percent of the present day "elite" (basically generals and mobsters), are just dead wrong usurpers of our tradition. SO much for coming to terms with reality and destiny. This is huge step forward for a person like me, brought up to obey and look up to authority figures in our tribe while suppressing my instincts and blurring my vision to their foul play.

by **israelirealities** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:26 pm

<a href="http://www.phr.org.il/phr/">www.phr.org.il/phr/</a> <a href="http://www.ha-keshet.org.il/articles.asp?action=form&article_id=216">www.ha-keshet.org.il/arti...cle_id=216</a> <a href="http://www.adva.org/indexe.html">www.adva.org/indexe.html</a> <a href="http://www.alternativenews.org/">www.alternativenews.org/</a> <a href="http://www.maarav.org.il/classes/PUAbout.php?lang=ENG&PHPSESSID=fa9d06471e54f7f011377fbf0dbf4db8">www.maarav.org.il/classes...bf0dbf4db8</a> <a href="http://www.achoti.org.il/english.html">www.achoti.org.il/english.html</a> <a href="http://www.keshev.org.il/siteEn/default.asp">www.keshev.org.il/siteEn/default.asp</a> <a href="https://israel.indymedia.org/index.php">/israel.indymedia.org/index.php</a> <a href="http://www.kavlaoved.org.il/index_en.asp">www.kavlaoved.org.il/index_en.asp</a> <a href="http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp">www.btselem.org/English/index.asp</a> <a href="http://www.adalah.org/eng/index.php">www.adalah.org/eng/index.php</a> <a href="http://www.taayush.org/">www.taayush.org/</a> <a href="http://www.hamoked.org.il/index_en.asp">www.hamoked.org.il/index_en.asp</a>

by **rapt** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:59 pm

Thank you IR for the clarity. I suspect you have a lot of sould brothers/sisters there who see it like you do. Is it true that the Sharonistas are holding and using power in a similar way to bushco?

by **Dreams End** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:10 pm

Fascinating account...and I'm sure you are, indeed, a rather lonely minority in your political views. I had a question. At one point you described the Zionists and founders of Israel (or the ruling class of those folks) as: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>On a practical level, the ruling class within political Zionism (and the founders of Israel) were "white trash" in a sense known to you, corrupt to the bones, a bit pagan in their value system, and ruthless.<hr></blockquote> Later you suggest that they were: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Israel was a socialist country in its inception, supported by the USSR, but more so influenced by communism, labor unionism etc.<hr></blockquote> I don't tend to associate socialism with the characteristics you name above in the first quote. Are there different groups here? I've never been impressed with arguments used to dislodge the Palestinians or histories which want to claim that the Palestinians just got up and left after Israel was established. "Oh darn....here come the Jews...let's go." But somehow I'd gotten the impression that there were different factions...a progressive, more egalitarian faction and a faction committed to, well, whatever it is you have there now. The idea that the US has more influence in Israel than vice versa seems common sense to me, no matter what level of complicity Israel's ruling elites may have. Because there are strong reasons for the US to want to dominate the region, it is no wonder that Jewish and Christian Zionists would have disproportionate influence in some matters here. Speaking of Christian Zionists, I am always amazed that ANYONE in Israel would cooperate with these people. People there do understand that these "Christians" believe that when Jesus comes back, the Jews must convert or burn. Israel, to them, is a sign that these end times are approaching and they are always more than happy to accelerate the process. Anyway, thanks for the post. We'll see what this stirs up. You may want to put some coffee on!

by **israelirealities** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:06 pm

Hey thanks DreamsEnd (I frist read it as Dream Ends..:-) Well, its funny how you project your present day image of a socialist/communist (an intellectual or social critic of moral stature...) to those times and places. Just remember that everyone in communist Russia was communist including the idiots, Stalin was the hero, (in early israel he was reverred), and it was more an Orwellian Animal Farm situation than what you have in mind now. The fact that early Zionists were communists and socialists was simply because they knew only this system and brought it with them from "home". It was corrupt, rigid, bolshevism (Ben Gurionism). This has nothing to do with the fact that generally speaking the Jews who immigrated to ISrael were the "left overs", and the more educated, rich, noble whatever...never came here or left very soon to other countries. So, when third world corporate capitalism came here, courtesy of the USA, the same type of not so sophisticated people, became capitalists. SO instead of despotic labor union bureacrats (corrupt...) ruling, we had criminals with big mercedes cars and tacky clothes (with very bad language skills) replace them. But to exemplify how communist red necks can be, just imagine Alabama hillie billies living under Stalinist ideology. not so nice, eh ? So as you see, there is no contradicion between the fact that they were all communists/socialists as per where they came from, AND not so evolved... Just take a good hard look at Ariel Sharon, as the crown of ISraeli creation... Today, when we are experiencing the worst effects of US capitalism here, i miss the old communism corruption, no doubt it was better. Take a look at books written about communism in Vietnam and you can get a glimse on how bad it works with ignorance. Yes there were as you say hardliners and "pragmatists" in the early times as well. However, this turns out to be a bit of a myth as well. Basically, there was a wide acceptance of the displacement of the Palestinians by violence and what not. In fact, I sense that the labor (sort of less nationalist) faction was responsible for more violence and death than the "extreme right" people, who shout "death to Arabs" but are not so efficient. its a bit tricky here. But surely there were always Jews here who were genuinely anti colonialists, but they never made an impact here.

by **Nymarya** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:43 pm

I am not familiar with Ken Adachi, I will do some googling on it. I too wondered about the "Blowback" title because I found the original book to be excellent and disliked the unnecessary confusion between the two, though I did not read the second or realize Johnson was untrustworthy. I am not aware of much of what is being discussed so please forgive if I ask stupid questions, and don't hesitate to send me to a link instead of spending your own time on an answer. This is really eye-opening. I have mistrusted Chomsky for some time. On the one hand he has insights about how things work, but on the other hand he doesn't do dick about it. He's like some guy to go to for a sound bite or a book blurb if you want a view from a certain perspective, but ultimately he seems like a dead end. As for Zionism...I am always afraid to be candid because too many times I have been jumped on and called anti-Semitic which I am not, (particularly since in doing genealogy I found a line that appears to be Jews who left Spain during the Inquisition so I may be Jewish myself.) In my late teens I was very sympathetic to the Israeli idea because I was coming out the accounts of the Holocaust. Then I took some classes in Islamic history and realized that the Palestinians had valid claims. Then as time went on I was just horrified at watching Israeli tactics mimic Nazi ones. I found it tragic and wondered if it wasn't the national equivalent of the sexually abused child who grows up to be a perpetrator--identification with the aggressor in order to deny vulnerability. Had Jews turned around and confiscated a big chunk of Germany and Poland for a homeland and kicked the 'good Germans' out, I think there would have been a point, but to go and take out the rage on a bunch of people who didn't inflict the original injury is perverse--like the guy whose boss yells at him so he goes home and yells at his wife, spanks his kid and kicks his dog. I remember a quote from Golo Mann's "History of Germany Since 1789" that was a text in a college class I took, I think it was from Schiller, to the effect that nations like individuals do strange things with traumatic experiences. (This is from memory over 30 years ago, the book is in storage now so i can't get the exact quote.) Look at what the US has done with 9/11....eagerly embraced an explanation of it that justifies a childish counterattack out of a Schwarzenegger movie...and now Schwarzenegger himself is governor of California. That is too weird. Sometimes I think when I woke up that morning 4 years ago to my roommate yelling "Terrorists attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon!" it was in a Bizarro version of the world, where people accept George W. Bush as 'presidential', a steroided out Goobernator as a serious politician, the Democrats as anything but shameful Quislings...things have been bad in the past, Nixon and Reagan, but I've talked to other people who feel we went through some kind of a portal into a universe where things aren't just bad, but parodically bad--where Presidents write notes about going potty, and the only decent news is on the Daily Show which is supposed to be a comedy show, and (in an article I found a link for on the whatreallyhappened site) buy half million dollar houses with no money down...Oh, I know it didn't happen all at once, I know the Internet Bubble was wacked out too, and that it was even before that, the early 90s, when 'tabloid mentality' journalism took over (I think of it as the "Buttafuoco" moment). And the US jumped the shark with Bush v. Gore, not 9/11. Or, hell, maybe when our ancestors first showed up with the idea that it was OK to steal land from our version of the Palestinians. Historically I have come to believe that first intentions count. Nothing that is built on theft and murder, no matter how much gold leaf and soft soap you apply to it, is going to last, because events keep throwing back to the original act of bad faith. Which, unfortunately, it's too late to reverse. How could we all go back where our ancestors came from when by now we have bloodlines that maybe came from a dozen different countries? I'm not exotic but I'm a blend of English, Irish, Welsh, French, Dutch, Swiss and Sephardic Jew. Where would I go? And do the Indians really want the country back as is, wouldn't they ask us to take our nuclear waste along when we go, like packing out your shit on a wilderness hike? Yet if we don't somehow make it morally square, how can we lecture anyone else? How can we tell the Israelis to pack up their settlements and go while we still have the descendants of the first people on the rez and of the slaves in poverty stricken inner cities like the one Katrina exposed? ======= Oh, I enjoy an egg myself, yes. They don't make good pets, though; you can never get them in at night. ~Doctor Pratt (played by Peter Sellers), "The Wrong Box"

by **DrDebugDU** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:55 pm

There is a long story about Chomsky on this board called "Educate my on Leftgatekeepers?" ( <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm27.showMessage?topicID=16.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=16.topic</a> ). It mainly deals with Chomsky and there are many valid points in the discussion, so your gut feeling about Chomsky is correct. One thing to remember about gatekeepers is that most of the things they talk about are very valid, however they'll limit the amount of information you are allowed to know and then start to insert disinformation. About being Jewish. Jewish is from the maternal line. So if it is not in your maternal line then you are not Jewish according to Jewish law. This something different then the nazi view. For example my father and my grandmother and grandfather from my paternal site where Jewish, so the nazis would consider me a half Jew. However my maternal line is Germanic, so in reality I am Arian (oh bitter sweet irony...) Lucky for me my paternal genes are very dominant <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

by **chiggerbit** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:54 pm

That's interesting, because in just the last few weeks I asked my best frined what it meant when a person tells me that they are a Jew. I knew it didn't mean the same as when a person told me that they are a Baptist or a caucasion or a Russian or a Republican, but I couldn't quite figure it out. I suspected that it is a tribe, which I could understand. He expalined that it was a lifestyle. Then I read through the links provided at this site that he sent me, and it was explained so simply: a Jew is one whose mother was a Jew. Of course, that explained why it was a lifestyle. Moms. Smart people, the Jews. <a href="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/">www.jewsnotzionists.org/</a>

by **israelirealities** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:43 am

I was referring to the Japanese-Canadian writer and human rights activist, and not to "ken adachi" from the recent american "etheric freedom fighters" (or whatever) website. THe Canadian authour shed light on the discrimination of Japanese canadians during WW2. He was awarded for his work and committed suicide sometime after that. The American contemporary Ken Adachi, whom I am not sure that his real name, is someone else and I don't know how to assess him. I exchanged some emails with him a few years ago, and I didn't make up my mind whether he is "for us or against us"...namely, I wasn't sure about his motivations.

by **israelirealities** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:07 am

I think that being Jewish is being presented with a "riddle" of identity that will keep your mind busy and alert or drive you nuts. THink about who planted this riddle ? .... Recently, I watched part two of "the Matrix", and i suppose it is true that "religion" and all those old hypnotic myths and prophecies (like the "Oracle" lady there) are yet another bug in our mind, and a means of control...

by **Nymarya** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:02 am

Thank you for the link on Chomsky! Yes, the gatekeepers have to let a certain amount of info be discussed or it will be too obvious that they are into info control not unfettered inquiry, but they limit the options...who better than someone who elucidates how the mainstream 'manufactures consent' to do the same thing to those questioning the mainstream? Demonically devious. As for Jewishness, now by maternal line do you mean that if the Jewish ancestor was on my mother's side it would make me Jewish under Jewish beliefs? Let me see...the Jewish line was my mother's father's mother's line. They were seemingly French Huguenots but they had a Spanish surname and my grandfather definitely said his mother was Spanish. In my readings on the crypto-Jews I read that often only one child in each generation actually knew the family secret, and was pledged never to reveal it except to the one person in the next. One account of such a family included a quester whose old aunt kept repeating before she died that no one would ever learn the secret. And she did not in fact disclose it. Unfortunately, I was told that for DNA testing for Sephardic ancestry I would need a direct MALE line ancestor, and I do not know one well enough to ask them to get DNA testing, though I know there are some males with the surname back in Michigan with whom I have a common great great great grandfather.

by **DrDebugDU** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:50 am

I don't know why, but it is seems it has something to do with the X-chromosome. As far as not telling goes, I can relate to that, because my father nor my grandparents have ever mentioned it and my father died without ever saying that he was genetically Jewish and I had to learn it from other family members. I assume that the main reason is because they were not known to be of Jewish blood and had been Christians for centuries. They had to survive World War II and in the city they lived in there were 665 Jews before WWII and only 7 survived, so 99% were killed during the war and those are statistics which are hard to grasp. And just by typing it the question returns in mind, the one who can never be solved: "Why was I allowed to be boen?" and those tricks of the mind go to the essence of genocide. So what do we do? We kill, kill and allow people to die. Thousands dead in Iraq. Thousands dead in New Orleans. And they don't give a fuck! A human being doesn't matter to the ones we call leaders. They only care about power and their stupid games and have no idea what kind of suffering they place on the world and what it causes. I'm sorry I just need to rant a bit and I don't feel so good...

by **rain** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:05 pm

are you ok ?

Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to blame

Re: Thanks for your input IR

'blowback', yeah right

a lot on the plate here...

list of links to progressive israeli websites in English

Israel

Re: list of links to progressive israeli websites in English

list of links to progressive israeli websites in English

Re: list of links to progressive israeli websites in English

Re: list of links to progressive israeli websites in English

Re: DrDebugDU

Re: The canadian Ken Adachi, not the American

on what it means to be Jewish

Jewishness

Re: Only maternal lines count

Dr.D.

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