The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby kenoma » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:11 pm

Absurd and obscene:


Incredibly, Ratzinger blames the conduct of paedophile priests and their protection by the Irish and Vatican hierarchies on a "crisis of faith"! As if it were not in fact a deplorable excess of faith in the institutional church that led to the glacial culture of silence that so intimidated victims and enabled child-rapists for decades.
In his statement Ratzinger signally failed to fully accept the findings of the Ryan report, thereby leaving the door open for the hordes of extreme right-wingers who will inevitably appear to spin a revisionist line questioning the (unimpeachable) veracity and impartiality of the report. (I am quite convinced that there already exists in Ireland a well-organized whispering campaign directed against prominent abuse victims and their few courageous advocates within the clergy: i.e.: they are 'aloof' or 'ego-tripping' or 'embittered' or 'have a vendetta', all of which I have heard in conversation with regular communicants).

The "Holy Father" is an intelligent man. I believe he is fully aware of how his statement will sound to victims of child-rape. He is quite deliberately snubbing the victims by refusing to meet them, and with his widely-broadcast ring-kissing ceremonies wants them to know that they mean nothing to him because they lack the faith and piety of the bishops. He wants them to know that he will put his squalid institution ahead of them every time. The whole pantomime of the Irish bishops' meeting with Ratzinger was just a repetition of those thousands of lies told for decades by paedophile priests in sacristies, boarding schools and 'reform' schools all over Ireland: shut your mouth, no one will believe you, see this collar? That's what counts around here.

Honestly, you'd wonder sometimes if they wouldn't elevate child rape to the level of a sacrament if they thought they could get away with it.
Last edited by kenoma on Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Simulist » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:40 pm

"Absurd" and "obscene" are good words for this, Kenoma.



That's a little like the head lemming noticing that some of the other lemmings have rushed on ahead of him — right over the cliff — and then blaming their fate on a "crisis of faith" in his leadership.

The Catholic Church — indeed the whole of mainstream Christianity — has been heading in a disturbing direction for a very long time, and really with only the slightest variations in trajectory.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby kenoma » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:51 pm

It's interesting, by the way, to trace the similarities between the denials and obfucscation regarding priestly paedophilia and a more general denialism as regards Euro-Christian crimes against humanity. In the Catholic church, the perpetrator always turns out to be the victim. So, just as in Ireland where the paedophile-protecting church is the victim of a 'liberal agenda', here "poor, wounded Europe" is the victim of its victims.This is George Weigel, a very prominent, very mainstream Catholic theologian, and the official biographer of 'Pope John Paul II'. Read between the lines here, feel the fascism:
In a talk delivered today in Paris, noted author George Weigel discussed the evangelization of the European culture and offered his advice on how to spark a renewal. Pointing to the “demographic winter” gripping much of the continent, Weigel described it as a portent of the future, unless Europeans insist on the place of Christian values in society and combat relativism with truth.

Weigel gave his speech at the Lustiger Symposium at the Collèges des Bernardins in Paris through a pre-recorded video.

Opening his address with a reflection on the writings of the late Pope John Paul II, Weigel discussed the 2003 encyclical, “Ecclesia in Europa,” calling it “a papal report card” on modern Europe, which showed “mixed grades.”

Of the greatest concern to the late Pontiff, said Weigel, was the lack of hope he saw in modern European culture as demonstrated by its failure to create “successor generations.”

Weigel noted that “while Europe’s demographic winter was undoubtedly the result of a complex of causes, something was clearly awry in the realm of the human spirit when an entire continent – wealthier, healthier, and more secure than ever before – was depopulating itself, not because of war, natural disaster, or plague, but by its own will.”

Pointing out that the last century was one of the the bloodiest in Europe's history, Weigel quoted Cardinal Jean Marie Lustiger to say that a collective post-war “guilt” still hangs over Europe.

“Here, Lustiger had in mind 'the proclamation of freedom [which] became the will to dominate…the pursuit of equality [which] produced slavery,' and 'the affirmation of brotherhood [which] became the origin of bloody struggles and of hopeless divisions,'” the American scholar said.


Accoring to Weigel, Cardinal Lustiger described that guilt in a 1981 address to the diplomatic corps in Bonn, saying, “as if exhausted by violence, Europe is hardly capable of transmitting life to new generations; poor, wounded Europe is causing the springs of life to run dry. The fruitfulness of love is under attack and the fruits of love are being aborted.”

In addition to Lustiger, Weigel noted that John Paul II also wrote on the “soul-withering effects” of post-war European guilt, which he attributed to Europeans betraying the values that were inspired in their culture by Christianity.

If there is no God, said John Paul II, Europeans “have no one from whom they can seek forgiveness.”

This hopelessness, said Weigel, has transformed into a “nihilism” and an “aggressive secularism” within European culture and has resulted in what then-Cardinal Ratzinger has called a “dictatorship of relativism.”

Europe, by extension, affects the whole of the West, argued Weigel. The importance of its evangelization, therefore, cannot be overstated. Drawing from the writings of both Jean Marie Lustiger and Pope John Paul II, he spoke on the hope for the renewal of Christian culture in Europe and presented what he called his fine-tuning of a “culture-first” strategy.

The first step in the process of Christian renewal, the Catholic author said, is that “intolerance in the name of 'tolerance' must be named for what it is and publicly condemned.” According to Weigel, Biblical morality is being treated in European culture with “bigotry and intolerance” and this is an “uncivil act that must be named as such.” But the prime example of this intolerance is the European Union and individual states believing that they have the authority to redefine marriage – a human institution that “antedates the state ontologically as well as historically,” he said.
....
The American intellectual also asserted that the Church needs to be vindicated from the “black legends” that circulate around its history, such as the Crusades, Galileo's trial and the Inquisition.

“I raise these matters of historical record, not to score debating points,” Weigel clarified, “but to suggest that part of the challenge we face today is to recognize, with John Paul II and Cardinal Lustiger, that Europe (and indeed the entire West) is suffering from a false story about itself, and about the relationship of biblical religion to its formation and its history.
...
Speaking to the Europeans in attendance at the Collèges des Bernardins symposium, Weigel concluded by saying, “I commend that more combative stance to you, who stand watch over the societies that gave birth to my own, in contesting for the causes we share.”

“You will not find Americans lacking as allies in the 21st century, as you did not find us lacking as allies in the century just past.”
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby kenoma » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:39 pm

Simulist wrote: That's a little like he head lemming noticing that some of the other lemmings have rushed on ahead of him — right over the cliff — and then blaming their fate on a "crisis of faith" in his leadership.

I don't know... I think he may have been suggesting that many oth)ers, not just the ordained lemmings, were reponsible for a culture that allowed child rape. As I understand it, Ratzinger was blaming a secularist condom-wearing relativistic evil (i.e. YOU) for leading astray his child-raping clergy, and not actual personnel of that squalid institution of which he is the head.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:56 am

I'm swiping this link of eflie's because it is so pertinent to this thread:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02 ... 1&ref=news

Irish Bishop: No Resignations on Agenda With Pope
Quote:

Irish Bishop: No Resignations on Agenda With Pope
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 14, 2010

Filed at 2:59 p.m. ET

ROME (AP) -- Irish bishops one-by-one will give an accounting to Pope Benedict XVI of their views, actions or knowledge about decades of sexual abuse by clergy, a participant said Sunday, but resignations were not on the agenda for the Vatican's extraordinary summit over the scandal.

''A casualty of all this has been the truth,'' Clogher Bishop Joseph Duffy said on the eve of the two-day summit. ''The fullness of the truth must come out, everything must be laid on the table.''

Duffy, a spokesman for the Irish Bishops Conference, said the church was ''admittedly slower than in needs to be'' in grappling with a ''culture of concealment.''

Last year, an investigation revealed that church leaders in Dublin had spent decades protecting child-abusing priests from the law while many fellow clerics turned a blind eye. A separate report in Ireland had been released months earlier documenting decades of sexual, physical and psychological abuse in Catholic-run schools, workhouses and orphanages.

The revelations shocked and disgusted the predominantly Catholic nation, and victims quickly demanded certain Irish bishops resign. Several have agreed, including two who stepped down on Christmas Day, but others have flatly refused.

Among the 24 bishops at the summit will be Martin Drennan of Galway, who has rebuffed calls that he stepped down.

Duffy said the Monday-Tuesday summit with the pope was not intended to deal with the issue of resignations.

''Precise questions of resignation is not on the agenda of the bishops because that is not our prerogative,'' Duffy told reporters.


He said the summit would deal with the ''enormous injustice and cruelty'' to the victims and the Irish faithful at large.

In the Dublin report, investigators determined that a succession of archbishops and senior aides had compiled confidential files on more than 100 parish priests who had sexually abused children since 1940. The files had remained locked in the Dublin archbishop's private vault.

The reports follow a campaign by the archbishop of Dublin and primate of Ireland, Diarmuid Martin, to confront abuse allegations and deal honestly with the cover-up and victims' suffering. Martin, who heads the Holy See's office on justice, had welcomed the bishops' resignations last year.

But Galway's Drennan, insisting he did nothing to endanger children, has clung to his office.

Drennan and the other summit participants will each have seven minutes to have their say before the pope, who will listen to the Irish prelates in group sessions on Monday and Tuesday.

Among the Holy See officials joining the summit is U.S. Cardinal William Levada, who heads the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a key Vatican office that reviews abuse claims against clergy worldwide. The pope himself once held the office, when he was known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

Asked how explicit the bishops' discussions with Benedict would be, Duffy said they would be frank.

''It is my information that the pope is very well clued in on this issue, that even before he became pope he had access to the documentation, and that he know exactly what was in the documentation, and that he wasn't living in a fool's paradise,'' Duffy said.


Benedict has signaled he intends to purify the priesthood and, while still a cardinal, had denounced ''filth'' in the church as the abuse scandals exploded during the papacy of John Paul.

During Benedict's 2008 pilgrimage as pope to the United States, he met privately with sexual abuse victims.

In recent weeks, a new sexual abuse scandal involving clergy has stained the Catholic church in Benedict's homeland, Germany.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:23 pm

I've been taking a look at a few cults that are offshoots of Christian churches, particularly of what I guess are Protestant churches. It seems like the offshoots don't always consider themselves "Christian" any more, the same way that the original Christians didn't consider themselves "Jewish". I think the Latter Day Saints started out the same way of thinking of themselves as "beyond" Christian, but eventually began to call themselves Christian.

I'm seeing that most of the first generation cults involve most, if not all, of the following properties: messiah founder, heterosexual sex by the founder with numerous partners, apocalypse, immortality and salvation of soul through the messiah founder, and a culture of conspiracy theorizing. These new messiah cults are not accepted by the church they break from.

What I'm finding interesting is how the properties of these new Protestant off-shoots differ from the offshoots that have happened in the Catholic Church, say in the last hundred years, anyway. For one thing, Catholic offshoots don't seem to break off (they still consider themselves Catholic) and aren't rejected by the Vatican--they're folded into the Church. The founders don't consider themselves messiahs, and are still subservient to the Pope, who often rewards founders with starting the process of beatification, leading to canonization. These Catholic offshoots also often covertly involve sex, but it seems more often to be homosexual sex. There also seems to often be an emphasis on acquiring property and wealth, which may explain their acceptance by the Vatican.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:20 am

Another instance of trying to minimize the seriousness of sexual acts with minors:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... on-vatican


Sex abuse rife in other religions, says Vatican

guardian.co.uk, Monday 28 September 2009 22.41 BST


The Vatican has lashed out at criticism over its handling of its paedophilia crisis by saying the Catholic church was "busy cleaning its own house" and that the problems with clerical sex abuse in other churches were as big, if not bigger.

In a defiant and provocative statement, issued following a meeting of the UN human rights council in Geneva, the Holy See said the majority of Catholic clergy who committed such acts were not paedophiles but homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males.


The statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's permanent observer to the UN, defended its record by claiming that "available research" showed that only 1.5%-5% of Catholic clergy were involved in child sex abuse.

He also quoted statistics from the Christian Scientist Monitor newspaper to show that most US churches being hit by child sex abuse allegations were Protestant and that sexual abuse within Jewish communities was common.


He added that sexual abuse was far more likely to be committed by family members, babysitters, friends, relatives or neighbours, and male children were quite often guilty of sexual molestation of other children.

The statement said that rather than paedophilia, it would "be more correct" to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males.

"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17."

The statement concluded: "As the Catholic church has been busy cleaning its own house, it would be good if other institutions and authorities, where the major part of abuses are reported, could do the same and inform the media about it."

The Holy See launched its counter–attack after an international representative of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, Keith Porteous Wood, accused it of covering up child abuse and being in breach of several articles under the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Porteous Wood said the Holy See had not contradicted any of his accusations. "The many thousands of victims of abuse deserve the international community to hold the Vatican to account, something it has been unwilling to do, so far. Both states and children's organisations must unite to pressurise the Vatican to open its files, change its procedures worldwide, and report suspected abusers to civil authorities."

Representatives from other religions were dismayed by the Holy See's attempts to distance itself from controversy by pointing the finger at other faiths.

Rabbi Joseph Potasnik, head of the New York Board of Rabbis, said: "Comparative tragedy is a dangerous path on which to travel. All of us need to look within our own communities. Child abuse is sinful and shameful and we must expel them immediately from our midst."

A spokesman for the US Episcopal Church said measures for the prevention of sexual misconduct and the safeguarding of children had been in place for years.

Of all the world religions, Roman Catholicism has been hardest hit by sex abuse scandals. In the US, churches have paid more than $2bn (£1.25bn) in compensation to victims. In Ireland, reports into clerical sexual abuse have rocked both the Catholic hierarchy and the state.

The Ryan Report, published last May, revealed that beatings and humiliation by nuns and priests were common at institutions that held up to 30,000 children. A nine-year investigation found that Catholic priests and nuns for decades terrorised thousands of boys and girls, while government inspectors failed to stop the abuse.





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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:16 pm

What this Archbishop Tomasi is skipping over is the fact that most of the cases of priest abuse that were reported also involved Church people in the hierarchy above the reported abuser who moved the abuser to new fields of opportunity to continue their abuse. This makes all those who knew and participated in the cover-up co-conspirators, co-abusers. In cases of familial sexual abuse that go to court, let's say abuse by fathers, it isn't unknown to see mothers who knew the abuse was going on and did nothing to protect the victim to also be charged.

It is indeed a travesty what these priests did to minors who were in their care, but the worse travesty is the Church's actions in enabling them to continue their behavior. For Archbishop Tomasi to make this statement in 2009--not 1989, or 1999, but 2009, for pity's sake-- shows that, at the highest levels, the Church still can't be trusted. This is a crime. Let's start sending them to prison.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:27 pm

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040311.html

Shockingly, Only 2% of Catholic Clergy Sexual Abusers Were Ever Jailed:
A Demonstration that the Self-Policing of Criminal Behavior Will Never Work
By MARCI HAMILTON
hamilton02@aol.com
----
Thursday, Mar. 11, 2004


There were some disturbing statistics in the John Jay College Report on sexual abuse by the Catholic Church's clergy over the last 50 years. (The report was released February 27, 2004.)

But the shocking and most telling of all was the statistic as to the percentage of abusers who were ever incarcerated -- only 2% (3% were prosecuted and convicted but apparently, of those, a third either will not serve time, or have yet to serve time).

What does this statistic tell us? It tells us the Church dramatically failed in its obligations to the public good. And it also tells us that one current "remedy" for abuse that the Church is still putting forward -- more self-policing -- will never work.

As Predicted, There Are Thousands of Victims and Abusers

The number of victims was 10,667. The number of abusers? A minimum of 4,392.

And these statistics, sadly, were not the shocking ones. Those familiar with these issues knew there were many more abusers than had yet been revealed. And there are very probably many more -- even ten times more -- victims and abusers than the Report indicated, as the Report itself acknowledges.

The sociologist and Catholic priest Andrew Greeley predicted long ago that the number of victims was probably on the order of 100,000. Decades ago, psychologist Richard Sipe, an expert on the issue predicted that as much as 6-8 % of priests sexually abused minors. And psychologists estimate that only a fraction of childhood sexual abuse victims ever come forward, anywhere from 5-35%.

Among So Many Abusers, Only a Tiny Percentage Were Ever Incarcerated

The shocking statistic in the Report, then, is not the number of victims, or the numbers of abusers. It is the statistic reflecting that while Dioceses and bishops knew about these criminals within their midst -- as the Lay Review Board's Report, issued the same day, made clear -- only a measly 2% were brought to justice.

That means that thousands -- probably tens of thousands -- of victims never got justice. It also means that 98% of offenders were left at large -- able to come into contact with more child victims, and unable to be added to any sex offender list.

By taking upon itself to operate in a private sphere untouched by concerns with the public good, the Church by its own actions increased the number of crimes, pushed the numbers of victims to stratospheric heights (no other organization in the United States has ever come remotely close in terms of numbers of victims), and destroyed its own credibility on social and faith issues.

Remember when alleged abuse at a small daycare center was a huge scandal? Now multiply that abuse by literally thousands -- or tens of thousands.

Society has a fundamental right to justice for crimes committed. The Church did not just let its own down, it let society down.

The Incarceration Statistic's Message: Self-Policing Cannot Work

This era in the Catholic Church -- if it is just an era, and not the Church's demise

-- will doubtless be the subject of study for psychologists, political scientists, lawmakers, sociologists, and children's advocates for centuries to come.

What this law scholar finds most interesting, however, in light of the Report is the clarity of the lesson of the Church's mistakes: self-policing criminal conduct simply does not work.

And why would anyone in this country ever think it could? The Constitution is built on the core belief that humans are always tempted to abuse power, so checks must be built into the system to deter those abuses of power.

Many are advocating more lay involvement in the Church to increase accountability. That move makes tremendous sense. But lay involvement will never be enough.

Instead, there will have to be a wholesale rejection, within the Church, of the Church's apparent belief that it operates above and beyond the sphere of the criminal and civil laws that prohibit harming fellow citizens. And that, I'm afraid, will take far more than reports controlled by the bishops, as these were, or sincere self-reflection, in which the bishops claimed they have engaged. It will take a soul-baring that has yet to be seen in the Church.

To redress the public harm done by the Church, it would be nice if there were a sea change in the Church's view of its relationship to the law. But, even more important in the face of this public crisis, the press and prosecutors must finally and completely forego being co-dependents of the Church's addiction to its own power. It will take no less than the most dedicated and combined efforts of prosecutors, judges, and reporters to right this wrong.

The 2% incarceration rate did not come solely from the failures of the Church, but also law enforcement and the media. They permitted the Church to operate undercover. Now that the enormity of the harm is dawning on the public, giving the Church a pass to handle its own criminal affairs is simply impossible.

The Case of Bishop Dupre Underlines the Failures of Self-Policing

The colossal failure of self-policing is illustrated by the notorious example in Springfield, Massachusetts, where the story is unfolding on a day-to-day basis.

Last month, two men publicly charged Bishop Thomas Dupre with abusing them for years. He abruptly resigned, and left for a clinic known to treat sexual abusers. Dupre is now under investigation for the abuse, and for his administration's cover-up of the crimes of other abusers.

When even the Bishop is alleged to be an abuser, it is plain that internal self-policing by the clergy itself will be utterly ineffective. But what about lay review? In that case, that too has failed.

In 1992, Springfield initiated a lay review board -- but it was controlled by the bishop. The catalyst was a guilty plea by Richard Lavigne, a notorious pedophile in the archdiocese, as well as the diocese's payment of $1.4 million in settlements to 17 men.

Despite the lay review board, it took years to defrock Lavigne; it also took many, many years before prosecutors returned to a "cold case" involving an altar boy who died. Lavigne is now under investigation in that case.

Those who suggest that lay review is the answer should consider that Springfield's lay review board operated for twelve years before it was learned that its own bishop was a serial abuser of boys.

In Springfield, in the wake of the Dupre scandal, local prosecutors have been forced to investigate and seriously consider charges from childhood sexual abuse to obstruction of justice. Even the federal prosecutor has offered assistance.

Prosecutorial actions like these pave the way for other prosecutors to take what they would have viewed in the past as a political risk, and turn it into a righteous cause. Virtually no one believes the Church ought to be left alone this much.

Why Lay Review Boards Alone Won't Work

Perhaps lay review boards could be more effective if they were completely independent of the Church, and if their monetary support came from other sources. But in the end, no lay review board will ever be capable by itself of serving as prosecutor and judge. Why? Because lay review boards simply do not have the built-in accountability to the public good inherent in a democratic government.

When board members are among the devoted, there will always be hesitation to accuse the very clergy who are supposed to be the servants of God. One could describe this as divided sympathies; in the law, however, it's a conflict of interest, and a classic reason for poor decisionmaking, and thus for disqualification of a decisionmaker.

Instead of being exclusively subject to lay review, allegations of abuse need to be vetted by law enforcement professionals who have no conflict of interest. But that will not be done until the bishops realize that they can no longer serve as the gatekeeper between victims and law enforcement.

Despite their advertised "no-tolerance" policy, which includes removal and reporting of abuse to authorities, bishops are only reporting claims to authorities that they believe are "credible." (And, as Dupre's example shows, they are hardly wont to find accusations against themselves credible!) So long as the bishops are a bottleneck through which only certain claims pass, they will hold singular responsibility for every victim.

The Church's Current Policies Are Rightly Making It Uninsurable

In a number of dioceses, the Church is now finding it increasingly difficult to get insurance coverage for the misdeeds of its clergy. If coverage is procured, it is extremely expensive. And insurers are rightly reluctant to cover instances of abuse that are also the fault of the Church itself, not only the fault of the abuser.

Churches cannot operate without some coverage. They are rightly subject to the same general criminal and tort laws we all must obey. So they are going to have to dance to the insurance companies' tune in order to obtain the coverage.

The Church may not be able to bring itself to report every allegation of abuse to authorities. But there is little reason for insurance adjustors to give the church coverage if it is going to continue to take the same risks that led to the enormity of the problem in the first place.

In contrast, if the Church were to report all abuse allegations to authorities, it would ameliorate the harm it is still doing; reduce its policing role to one of a team of investigators, not that of a sole overseer; and in the process, make itself far more attractive to insurers. Only full cooperation with law enforcement will allow the Church to be fully and affordably insurable.

And that is only right. Insurance companies are supposed to cover accidents and unknown, unpreventable, and unforeseeable situations -- not, as here, an intentional pattern of conduct of which the institution that is insured is well aware.

It's Time For the Church to Stop Fighting, and Start Cooperating

To win confidence from the devoted, from society, and from insurance companies, the Church has no choice but to fully cooperate with police and prosecutors, reporting to them every allegation of clergy abuse.

Tragically, however, the Church continues, instead, to fight tooth and nail in the state legislatures to prevent laws that would mandate the Church and its clergy to reporting clergy sexual abuse to the proper authorities and to prevent extension of statutes of limitations for childhood sexual abuse.

In court, Church lawyers are arguing, among other theories, that imposing a theory of "negligent hiring" on the Church violates the First Amendment. But that is a ridiculous argument. Surely, the government cannot vet the theological credentials of clergy candidates. But just as surely, the law can insist that the Church does not hire known abusers.

Courts need not determine whether the Church is acting as a reasonable Church, but rather as a reasonable citizen. Theology is sacrosanct; prior criminal behavior certainly is not. Merely telling a church not to hire criminals is a far cry from telling it who to hire, or what to preach.

In any event, the Church will find itself uninsurable--in addition to untrustworthy--if it keeps hiring and harboring known abusers. Background checks on all seminarians surely will be required by the insurance companies even if they are not required by law. The era of self-policing is over.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby kenoma » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:09 pm

Contrast the Vatican's appalling treatment of the Irish abuse victims with their selling of indulgences to the scum of Irish capitalism:

Top developers donated huge sums to Vatican

NAMA-BOUND* property developers Derek Quinlan, Treasury Holdings' Johnny Ronan, Ballymore Properties' Sean Mulryan and Paddy McKillen, one of the so called "Anglo 10", have all emerged as major donors to the Vatican.

The property developers were named in the top 10 borrowers whose loans were bound for Nama in the first wave of transfers last week. Some €16bn worth of loans associated with the 10 biggest borrowers are set to be transferred shortly.

The Patrons of the Arts in the Vatican Museums published recently reveals that these troubled property developers provided 'financial support' for the restoration of the historic Pauline Chapel in the Vatican Museum.

Fellow donors included former Anglo Irish bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick and the controversial former boss of Irish Nationwide Michael Fingleton.

Other donors included digicel owner Denis O'Brien and William Bollinger, the Irish co-founder of the €3bn Egerton Capital Hedge Fund.

Close to €9m was raised from donors for the restoration project. The donors were given special medallions after a private mass in the Pauline chapel, celebrated by Cardinal Lajolo last July. Solid gold 'Michelangelo' medallions were given to donors who had given more than $1m, with silver 'Raphael' medallions for donors of $500,000 plus. 'Bramante' medals were presented to donors of $250,000 or more. A marble plaque listing the names of all 26 donors, including the Irish builders and bankers, was unveiled in the chapel.


*NAMA is the 'national assets management agency', a blatant ponzi scheme concocted by the Irish govt (in collusion with the ECB) in the wake of the crash. It was designed to bail out the Irish bankers and property speculators who basically own the ruling Fianna Fail party. Most intelligent and uncorrupted observers believe NAMA will leave the country indebted for generations and that it constitutes a massive transfer of wealth from ordinary workers to a corrupt and incompetent class of speculators and bankers who bankrupted the country in the first place. It has, of course, the enthusiastic backing of Goldman Sachs and much of the international financial media.

It is not controversial to say that most of those named in this article - Sean Fitzpatrick and Michael Fingleton especially - would, in a properly functioning democracy, be in jail by now. It is these people, and not the victims of paedophile priests, who get a plaque in the Vatican.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:38 pm

http://tinyurl.com/y8m3d95

Pope's brother's choir faces abuse claims


Former member of German Catholic boys' choir long run by Pope's brother alleges abuse

MELISSA EDDY and KIRSTEN GRIESHABER
AP News

Mar 05, 2010 09:52 EST

An ever-widening sexual abuse scandal involving Germany's Roman Catholic Church spilled into the heart of Pope Benedict XVI's homeland Friday when a former member of a boy's choir led for 30 years by his brother claimed he was a victim.


A former singer came forward with allegations church employees had sexually abused him in the early 1960s, said Clemens Neck, a spokesman for the Regensburg Diocese which oversees the school connected to the renowned Regensburger Domspatzen boys choir.

Neck gave no details on the extent of the abuse, but insisted it happened before the Rev. Georg Ratzinger, the pope's brother, took over the choir in 1964. Ratzinger led the choir, comprised of around 500 boys and young men, until his retirement in 1994.

Ratzinger told public radio Bayerischer Rundfunk on Friday he did not know of any abuse cases at the choir and another spokesman for the diocese, Jakob Schoetz, insisted the known cases of abuse did not happen during Ratzinger's tenure.

"The cases that are known to us at this time did not take place during his tenure," Schoetz wrote.

The allegations by the former Domspatzen singer are part of a spiraling scandal that has grown from the claims of seven former pupils at a Catholic-run Berlin high school to more than 170 ex-students from several of the church's most prominent educational facilities in Germany, including the high school connected to the Domspatzen and the Ettal Monastery boarding school — both in the pope's home region of Bavaria.

A Vatican source said the Holy See did not intend to immediately issue a formal statement on the claims in Regensburg, but added German bishops will meet the pope for talks March 12.

From 1969 to 1977 the pope, then Joseph Ratzinger, taught theology at the University of Regensburg.

On Friday, the Regensburg Diocese announced it was hiring a lawyer to help it carry out a "systematic" clarification of the abuse allegations that currently range from 1958 to 1973.

"We call on all victims to contact our representative for sexual abuse cases," the dioceses said. "We would like to encourage people to come, to give a name to their suffering and, through this, to ease and eliminate the pain."

On Thursday, the Ettal Monastery boarding school said the Vatican had confirmed it would send an inspector to look into accusations of sexual abuse made by 20 alumni of the school.

Munich prosecutors last week opened an investigation into allegations of abuse against one member of the Benedictine-run school. The second priest who accused of sexual abuse has since died.
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Vatican hit by gay sex scandal

Postby annie aronburg » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:59 pm

Vatican chorister sacked for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for papal gentleman-in-waiting

Balducci was arrested on 10 February, suspected of involvement in widespread corruption. A senior Italian government official, he is alleged to have to steered public works contracts towards favoured bidders. He has not been charged.

It was during this investigation into corruption that wiretaps revealed his alleged sexual activity. In one conversation, Ehiem tells Balducci: "I saw your call when I was in the Vatican, because I was doing rehearsals … in the choir … in St Peter's." He then suggests Balducci meet a man who he describes is "two metres tall … 97 kilos … aged 33, completely active."

Balducci is also a senior adviser to the Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples, the department that oversees the Roman Catholic church's worldwide missionary activities.

Since 1995, he has been a member of one of the world's most exclusive fraternities – the Gentlemen of His Holiness, or Papal Gentlemen, the ceremonial ushers of the papal household. In the words of a 1968 ordinance, they are expected to "distinguish themselves for the good of souls and the glory of the name of the Lord".
"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Simulist » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:09 pm

Is the Vatican's "Angelo Balducci (a "Gentleman of His Holiness," whatever the hell that means) any relation at all to Monsignor Corrado Balducci, the late Vatican Curia theologian (d. 2008), who claimed extraterrestrial contact "is real"?
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:33 pm

It's pretty clear that these victims, at best, were considered collateral damage. But I think it's time to ask whether the sexual victimization of children was perquisite of the job.

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March 12, 2010
Pope knew priest was paedophile but allowed him to continue with ministry
Richard Owen in Rome



(Pier Paolo Cito/AP)

Pope Benedict XVI

The Pope was drawn directly into the Roman Catholic sex abuse scandal for the first time tonight as news emerged of his part in a decision to send a paedophile priest for therapy. The priest went on to reoffend and was convicted of child abuse but continues to work as priest in Upper Bavaria.

The priest was sent from Essen to Munich for “therapy” in 1980 when he was accused of forcing an 11-year-old boy to perform oral sex. The archdiocese confirmed that the Pope, then a cardinal, had approved a decision to accommodate the priest in a rectory while the therapy took place.

The priest, identified only as “H”, was subsequently convicted of sexually abusing minors after he was moved to pastoral work in nearby Grafing. In 1986 he was given an 18-month suspended prison sentence and fined 4,000 marks ($2,800 in today’s money). There have been no formal accusations against him since.

The church has been accused of a cover-up after at least 170 accusations of child abuse by German Catholic priests. The scandal broke in January but the claims, which continue to emerge, span three decades. Critics say that priests were redeployed to other parishes rather than fired when they were found to be abusing children.
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The archdiocese of Munich and Freising said there had been no complaints against the priest during the therapy at a Church community in Munich. It said the decision to allow him to continue work in Grafing was taken by Gerhard Gruber, now 81, and then Vicar General of the archdiocese.

The Vatican noted in a statement that Monsignor Gruber had taken “full responsibility” for the priest’s move back into pastoral work but did not comment further.

Monsignor Gruber said the Pope, who was made a cardinal in 1977, had not been not aware of his decision because there were a thousand priests in the diocese at the time and he had left many decisions to lower level officials.

“The cardinal could not deal with everything,” he said. “The repeated employment of H in pastoral duties was a serious mistake... I deeply regret that this decision led to offences against youths. I apologise to all those who were harmed.”

However, he did not indicate whether the convicted paedophile would be allowed to continue working in the Church.

The Pope was Archbishop of Munich and Freising from 1977 to 1982, then moved to Rome as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a post he held until his election as pontiff five years ago after the death of John Paul II.

“H”, the priest, went on to work in an old people’s home for two years after his conviction then moved to the town of Garching where he became a curate and later a Church administrator. In May 2008 he was removed from his duties in Garching and was not allowed to work with your people, but he still works in the diocese, according to the newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung, which broke the story.

The head of Germany’s Catholic bishops had earlier today apologised to the victims of clerical sex abuse after meeting Pope Benedict, saying the German-born Pope had expressed “great dismay” over the scandals and had encouraged him to take “decisive and courageous steps” to tackle the problem and help the victims.

Monsignor Robert Zollitsch, Archbishop of Freiburg, said the German Church would investigate abuse allegations and take measures to prevent a recurrence. He said the Pope had been “deeply moved” by his report of sex abuse cases in Germany, and had praised the naming of a bishop to act as a clerical sex abuse “watchdog”.

However Archbishop Zollitsch noted that paedophilia was not confined to the Roman Catholic Church. Monsignor Gerhard Muller, the Bishop of Regensburg, insisted there was “not even a minimal link” between paedophilia and priestly celibacy, which would “not be modified”.

Before the meeting, Pope Benedict defended celibacy for priests as a sign of “full devotion” to God and the Catholic Church.

Speaking to delegates toat a conference on the priesthood, the Pope said celibacy was a “sacred value” for the Latin Church in the West and was also “held in great regard” by the Eastern Catholic church, which permits priests to be married.
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Re: The role of the Catholic church WRT conspiracies

Postby Simulist » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:55 pm

So if you force an 11-year old to have oral sex, they'll keep you on as a Catholic priest — but if you even question the pope's dopey claim of "infallibility," you get fired as a Catholic theologian.

Yeah. That makes sense.

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