Bombshell: Silverstein Wanted To Demolish Building 7 On 9/11

[MacCruiskeen]

Ho ho. Chump is sophisticated, chump is well-named, and 17Farts will soon have sabotaged yet another thread.

But then it's a thread Jeff that himself finds unsophisticated (per definitionem) , so he's probably happy to see it sabotaged. So there's no sense in expecting barracuda (the arbiter of sophistication) to save the thread, because RI is a now a Big Tent, and even the shoddiest post is an equally welcome thread in that vast marquee, even if it means the whole fucking thing collapses very soon.

[JackRiddler]

What manifests? The airlines never released official manifests for these flights. The only lists we have came from the M$M.

What to you would constitute "official" manifests? The airlines have released lists that include the alleged hijackers to newspapers like the Boston Globe and LAT reporter Terry McDermott. So say the official investigations, too. If you don't believe it, how are you supposed to prove otherwise?

But again, in an inside-job scenario, how could the planners fail to take care of such an elementary point?! They'll have every possible reason to line up their patsies, make sure they're on the flights as dead men and on the lists with Arab names.

The Boston Globe said they got their hands on the complete Flight 92 list already on Sept. 14. What are you going to do, say that they lied? What difference is this going to make?!

Interestingly they say Atta's a Saudi because of his Saudi passport, found on Atta's famous magic bags that didn't get on the plane and had all the evidence in them. Here's the original story via Lexis:

The Boston Globe

September 13, 2001, Thursday ,THIRD EDITION

ATTACK AFTERMATH / A NATION SEARCHES Shelley Murphy, Ralph Ranalli, Stephen Kurkjian, John Donnelly, Michael Rezendes, Wayne Washington, Sally Jacobs, Farah Stockman, and Judy Rakowsky of the Globe Staff contributed to this story. Globe correspondents Broward Liston and Fran Riley also assisted.; 12 SUSPECTS EYED IN HIJACKINGS; GRIM SEARCH FOR VICTIMS GOES ON 3 MEN TRAINED TO BE PILOTS ARE KEY TO PROBE

BYLINE: By Kevin Cullen and Matthew Brelis, Globe Staff

SECTION: NATIONAL/FOREIGN; Pg. A1

Three men who were trained as pilots have emerged as the central figures in the hijacking of two Boston-to-Los Angeles flights that were deliberately crashed into the World Trade Center towers.

The trio are among a dozen men with Arabic surnames who were the focus yesterday of the massive investigation here trying to determine who commandeered the two Boeing 767s that formed half of the biggest terrorist attack ever against Americans.

Sources close to the investigation said that investigators had recovered from a car rented by a suspected hijacker a so-called "ramp pass," which gives the holder access to restricted areas at Logan Airport. Evidence also suggests the rental car was used to case the airport during the week leading up to the attack.

As investigators retraced the steps of the men, using an extensive list of Visa credit card receipts, evidence pointing to the plot having its roots in the Middle East was piling up.

The names of the 12 men with Arabic surnames were not on a passenger list made public yesterday by American Airlines and United Air Lines, whose planes were hijacked Tuesday morning. But The Boston Globe obtained the complete list, and law enforcement sources confirmed that they were focusing on up to a dozen of the Arabic men as they piece together how the two Boston flights were hijacked.

One of the suspects, Mohamed Atta, 33, is a Saudi national who trained as an airline pilot. The other two, Waleed Alshehri and Marwan Alshehri, are believed to be brothers from the United Arab Emirates, and are also trained to fly heavy commercial aircraft like the ones that were commandeered and flown into the World Trade Center towers in New York.

Both Atta, who attended a flight school in Florida last year, and Waleed Alshehri received training that would have made them capable of flying American Airlines Flight 11 into the first of the two towers that later collapsed, killing what officials assume will be thousands of office workers and hundreds of their would-be rescuers.

Marwan Alshehri, who attended flight school with Atta, was capable of flying United Air Lines Flight 175 into one of the towers, investigators believe.

Atta caught Flight 11 off a connecting flight from Portland, Maine. Two bags with Atta's name tags were on the Portland flight, but did not get transferred in time to be loaded on the Los Angeles-bound flight that left Logan Airport at 7:59 a.m., about 45 minutes before it smashed into the World Trade Center tower.

Acccording to the manifest, Atta was assigned seat 8D in business class on Flight 11, directly across the aisle from Hollywood producer David Angell and his wife, Lynn, who were in seats 8A and 8B respectively. Seated next to Atta in seat 8G was Abdul Alomari. The two remaining seats in Row 8, H and J, were unassigned.

The passenger list for Flight 175 shows that Marwan Alshehri got on the plane that left Boston and slammed into one of the Manhattan skyscrapers 15 minutes after Flight 11.

A Florida man, Charles Voss, yesterday said that Atta and a man whom he knew only as Marwan had stayed at his home last year while they obtained flight training at a Florida flight school. Voss, who used to work at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Fla., told the Associated Press that the FBI agents who interviewed him Tuesday told him that the two men who stayed at his home were involved in the hijackings. Azzan Ali, a student at Huffman Aviation, said that Marwan Alshehri had stayed with Voss.

Voss said the FBI told him that the two men who had stayed with him last year had been traced to a car found at Logan Airport. Law enforcement sources told the Globe that authorities had recovered from the car a a ramp pass issued by the Massachusetts Port Authority.

Waleed Alshehri also held a commercial pilot's license and was rated to fly large, multi-engine aircraft.

On Tuesday night, Massachusetts State Police detectives and the FBI seized a Mitsubishi sedan that a Hampden County law enforcement official said one of the suspected hijackers rented in Springfield and that was parked in a Logan Airport parking lot. When they reviewed videotape of the parking lot's surveillance camera, investigators found that the car had entered the lot up to five times between last Wednesday and Tuesday, according to sources. Those sources said the constant presence of the car over the last week suggested that the terrorists had scouted the airport, or performed dry runs for the daring attack.

Sources familiar with the investigation said the ramp pass, found in the Mitsubishi sedan, gives holders access to restricted parts of the airport.

Sources said at least five one-way tickets for the United flight and at least two similar tickets for the American flight were purchased at the last minute by suspected hijackers. The sources said at least four of the tickets were purchased with the same Visa card.

One state official who spoke on condition of anonymity expressed deep regret that airline officials did not react more cautiously regarding the ticket purchases.

"That is something that should jump out at you," said the state official. "One-way ticket, purchased by Arabic gentlemen; that should have been red-flagged."

One source said the car had been parked at least "four to five" times at Logan since Sept. 5.

Meanwhile, authorities in Florida were investigating the possibility that two suspected terrorists, including Waleed Alshehri, prepared for the attacks on New York and Washington while at Embry-Riddle Aeronautics University in Daytona Beach - one as a student and one while working as an instructor.

In a statement yesterday, university officials said they are cooperating with the FBI and other investigative agencies and would provide no further information.

But the Globe found Waleed Alshehri's name on a list of 1997 Embry graduates. The FBI Tuesday evening searched a Daytona Beach apartment where Alshehri lived during the time he is believed to have attended Embry.

The Globe reported yesterday that inside the suitcase belonging to Atta, investigators found a Saudi passport, an international driver's license, a videotape on how to fly a Boeing 757 and 747, and "some kind of religious cassette tape." Atta has previously held an Egyptian driver's license.

SNIP

Later they claimed it was TWO bags and one of them had a list of the 19 hijackers on it.

Now what do you think is more plausible: that the FBI guys are inventing this bag, or that they actually found it (i.e., most likely that it was prepared for them to find)??? Again, why wouldn't your inside job masterminds NOT think of these crucial details?

Here's a graphic the Boston Globe did based on the manifest they claimed to have obtained. Mind you, this is days after Sept. 11 and we're still wasting time on this red herring nine years later.



(This is as it was republished in Australia, so it's got a special category for the one Australian. RIP.)

Here are more such graphics and pictures of manifests as faxed to Terry McDermott:
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evid ... ngers.html

Unfortunately that page still perpetuates the "living hijacker" red herring. (As though the masterminds of a covert operation would just pick a guy's name at random to to serve as patsy, without assuring he would die in the attack or was already dead.)

[Jeff]

But then it's a thread Jeff that himself finds unsophisticated (per definitionem) , so he's probably happy to see it sabotaged.

To the contrary, I'm delighted to see that Jack and DoYouEverWonder remain interested in continuing the discussion. I'd like to encourage that, and for you to rejoin it, so I'm not making further comment here upon the disruption of this thread, other than to say it needs to stop, and that the guidelines re civility either need to be observed or they will be enforced.

[MacCruiskeen]

But then it's a thread Jeff that himself finds unsophisticated (per definitionem) , so he's probably happy to see it sabotaged.

To the contrary, I'm delighted to see that Jack and DoYouEverWonder remain interested in continuing the discussion.

And I'm not ? Rubbish. It is is ridiculous and worse to suggest that Jack and DYEW are the only people here who are "interested in continuing the discussion" - especially since I had just made a point of telling Jingofever that I would reply to him tomorrow.

I'd like to encourage that, and for you to rejoin it, so I'm not making further comment here upon the disruption of this thread, other than to say it needs to stop (!!!!!!!), and that the guidelines re civility either need to be observed or they will be enforced.

Enforce them, then, whatever they may now happen to be. And define civility. And tell us if 17Breezes' prissy, passive-aggressive, openly-aggresive, content-free. arselicking "civility" exemplifies the kind of thing you want to "encourage" here. You're full of opinions about my behaviour here, but you have fuck-all to say about his, despite having told me --over a week ago -- that you're tolerating him here only in order to study him and his trollishness.

So what's what?

RI. the Big Tent.

[Jeff]

over a week ago

Sorry to be dragging my heels there, dude.

Drop the drama and return to the topic.

[mentalgongfu2]

For the record, I have no dog in this fight. I'm agnostic on the hows of 9-11-2001, though I am convinced a great fraud was perpetrated in the explanation of the act itself and the ensuing aftermath.

I just have to mention my observation that statements like the following assume an understanding of how the "masterminds of a covert operation" would think and operate.

As though the masterminds of a covert operation would just pick a guy's name at random to to serve as patsy, without assuring he would die in the attack or was already dead.

Seeing as how the question of the identities of the hijackers, and even their existence, continues to divide opinions on 9/11 truth, I don't feel comfortable assuming I understand the thinking and operational decisions of those who planned and facilitated it.

The best grasp I can get is on the motives, and that only with the benefit of hindsight, by seeing which goals have been realized or are on the way as a result of the constant reminder that "3,000 people died that day."

Two acknowledged but undeclared wars, an unknown number of covert actions, torture, transportation security crackdowns, new identification laws, and an inexhaustible list of other scary and shameful things. And even that sheds little insight on what underlying motivations may yet manifest themselves in the course of events, and 9/11 is used as justification for so many things, it may be hard to determine which were planned and which simply piggybacked on the incredible momentum that continues to this day to be excited by the mere mention of 9/11, Osama, Al-Quaeda, etc.

[chump]

Jack

As I understand it, and I don't - all I know is what I read, elite intelligence agencies contrive doubles and triples for many of their agents. It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma.

Do 3000 FBI agents have to be in the know? Absolutely not, because each investigation is funneled through a chain of command who determines what does or does not get investigated. There are many criminal networks which have infiltrated all branches of government and business, and each other, but there are a few who manage the show. Freemasonry, Zionism, Skull and Bones, religiosity, Omerta - they are the ties that bind.

That's the best I can do for now. Mac has me all upset. (not really)

Hey Mac. Bad Mood?
This thread has it's moments. Why did you call out breezes? You just had to get that little jab in there, didn't ya'? It's been entertaining as you the three of you carry on like a bevy of girlymen. I usually like to read your opinion on stuff, but he brings out the bitch in you (Nordic and Alice too). Quite frankly, I appreciate that his posts are mercifully short. I can just breeze on by.

[Nordic]

You're full of opinions about my behaviour here, but you have fuck-all to say about his, despite having told me --over a week ago -- that you're tolerating him here only in order to study him and his trollishness.

Well, that's interesting.

I would suggest if that's the goal, to go to someplace like Dailykos and post something, anything, critical of Israel, and then you can study all the carbon copies of Cheesy Breezy that will come out of the woodwork. They all act exactly the same (and he probably posts over there anyway, if he's at DU he's probably at DK also). Then we don't have to waste our time here, and those of us who come here because it usually doesn't have trolls like that can get back to enjoying this place.

[17breezes]

Grow up dweeb.

Ah, fuck off.

The sophistication level of the discourse here seems on the wane.

Hopefully you take note of who always starts the shit. He can't seem to get me off his mind, just like Nordic. If he didn't keep insulting me I would never have a fucking word to say to him. He is exquisitely ignorable but for that. He can raise the sophistication level by ignoring me but I don't think he is psychically capable of it.

Fuck off, you blatantly-lying, shamelessly-dishonest, shitbrained, peabrained, arselicking, sycophantic, prissy fucking timewaster.

And barracuda, spare me your world-weary one-liners; they do not demonstrate sophistication. On the contrary, they make you look like a teenager, or like a half-soused lounge lizard. And I don't know what the Modding rules are these days, but don't even attempt to go all moralistic on my ass, or to suggest any kind of moral equivalence here. Rather than sighing quasi-magisterially, you could try actually doing your fucking job, or at least you could tell me and everyone else what that job actually is.

-- A week or more ago, after 17Breezes had already wasted a ton of everyone's time, Jeff told me that he and you were only tolerating this arsehole until he revealed himself. So what's what?

Holy fuck. Is that so? Cute conspiracy you three. Thanks for outing that shit Mr "I can't do anything but insult people I can't refute."

Wow Jeff and Cuda. Just wow. Sophistication just took on whole new meanings.

Why don't you just ban me now since that was the plan you were all conspiring together about all along? Why wait? I never imagined this was that kind of place and you were that kind of guy Jeff. It all saddens me immensely.

[barracuda]

Wow Jeff and Cuda. Just wow.

It's the first I've heard of it, though Jeff may have used the royal "we" in his communications with MacCruiskeen. But I have been a party to a conversation regarding some of your less public activities, so your username has been bandied about somewhat. Nonetheless, up to the present, I have advocated a certain tolerance of your posting, because I believe, to an extent, that there exists the possibility of a legitimate defense of the nation of Israel as a geopolitical entity, the outlines of which are beyond the scope of this thread. As well, I am highly interested in maintaining a watchfulness with regard to encroaching anti-semitism in any guise in these discussions.

I really had no problem with your response to the "no hijackers" issue, as I happen to agree that it is a red herring.

However, I also agree generally that your postings can be suspiciously content-free and trollish, so if you expect to continue to posting here, you should consider ways of addressing that. I can't force you to take on depth or nuance, but that is what is hoped for in these discussions and the short-circuiting of that by snide and rote accusations of anti-semitism whenever you are confronted with criticisms of Israel aren't appreciated or super valued.

Mac on the other hand is a valued and storied member of the community here, and, frankly, he'll probably have to go quite a long ways before being faced with the prospect of a chastisement that will leave any sort of a mark on his permanent record, no matter how pissy he gets, within remarkably loose reason. Sorry, but that's pretty much the way it is. I hope that tells you where you stand at the moment so there's less of an aire of mystery and suspicion surrounding your future circumstances.

Best of luck,

Dino

[Alaya]

breezes:

It all saddens me immensely.



LMAO This is the only thing that saddens you and you can used to it.

[17breezes]

But then it's a thread Jeff that himself finds unsophisticated (per definitionem) , so he's probably happy to see it sabotaged.

To the contrary, I'm delighted to see that Jack and DoYouEverWonder remain interested in continuing the discussion.

And I'm not ? Rubbish. It is is ridiculous and worse to suggest that Jack and DYEW are the only people here who are "interested in continuing the discussion" - especially since I had just made a point of telling Jingofever that I would reply to him tomorrow.

I'd like to encourage that, and for you to rejoin it, so I'm not making further comment here upon the disruption of this thread, other than to say it needs to stop (!!!!!!!), and that the guidelines re civility either need to be observed or they will be enforced.

Enforce them, then, whatever they may now happen to be. And define civility. And tell us if 17Breezes' prissy, passive-aggressive, openly-aggresive, content-free. arselicking "civility" exemplifies the kind of thing you want to "encourage" here. You're full of opinions about my behaviour here, but you have fuck-all to say about his, despite having told me --over a week ago -- that you're tolerating him here only in order to study him and his trollishness.

So what's what?

RI. the Big Tent.

Of course you are not unless it's on your simplistic terms. You posted a link to some moron saying there was no proof of muslim hijackers on the flights; I gave you half a dozen links to refute that. DISCUSS? No you throw a fucking hissy fit. If that's your idea of discussion you need to give your head a shake. I'm surprised the word doesn't burn a hole through your mouth.

No you aren't interested in discussion, just throwing shit on stuff you can't answer.

[Iamwhomiam]

Ho hum... you guys still getting wet by yesterday's rain? try Gimee Shelter

meanwhile, back in Afghanisan...

[thatsmystory]

Why would anyone go all in on either divide of the hijacker aspect? Is the sense of certainty that important? Certainty to the point of mocking anyone who wastes their time on "official story crap."

For sure there are questions about the hijackers boarding the planes:

1) The only footage we have seen is the Dulles checkpoint and Portland Jetport. The 9/11 CR states that Moqed, al-Mihdhar and Hanjour were flagged by CAPPS. A few paragraphs later the report states that the screeners couldn't recall that any of the passengers they screened were CAPPS selectees. Then there are the clothing discrepancies with al-Omari and Atta at Portland Jetport.

2) The only boarding gate agent we heard from is Michael Tuohey at Portland Jetport. As I understand it he was a ticket agent but also the effective gate agent because it is a small airport. The main point is that we never heard (as in a media interview or 9/11 CR MFR) from the 9/11 flight gate agents. Granted they may not have remembered anything but one would think there would have been more media interest.

This is the only detailed account I have found of a 9/11 gate agent (from the book Reclaiming the Sky: 9/11 and the Untold Story of the Men and Women Who Kept America Flying by Tom Murphy. Murphy conducted customer service training seminars for airlines.):

A United Airlines manager finds that a gate agent has already singled out boarding passes belonging to four suspicious passengers who were on Flight 93. Terri Rizzuto is the United Airlines station manager at Newark Airport, from where Flight 93 departed. Some time after hearing that this plane has crashed, she speaks on the phone with the FBI, which is requesting the plane’s manifest and its Passenger Name Record (PNR). After arranging permission to release these, she goes to Gate 17, from where she knows Flight 93 departed, wanting to talk to her staff there. When she arrives, a supervisor hands her four boarding passes. The supervisor tells her they are “The men, who did this maybe,” and points her toward one of the gate agents who had boarded the passengers onto the flight. When Rizzuto asks the gate agent, “How do you know?” he replies: “They were too well-dressed. Too well-dressed for that early in the morning. And their muscles rippled below their suits.…And their eyes.”

Flight 93 gate agent

3) The DNA matching story was confusing. As best I remember the FBI claimed they turned over samples of the hijackers and they were matched to DNA found at the crash sites. The confusion was in how the FBI narrowed their DNA samples. If they found DNA in rental cars and hotels then one would think they would have found a bunch of DNA samples. But in the news articles I read the suggestion was that the FBI had somehow narrowed the DNA samples down to the hijackers. How could they do this?

[17breezes]

Wow Jeff and Cuda. Just wow.

It's the first I've heard of it, though Jeff may have used the royal "we" in his communications with MacCruiskeen. But I have been a party to a conversation regarding some of your less public activities, so your username has been bandied about somewhat. Nonetheless, up to the present, I have advocated a certain tolerance of your posting, because I believe, to an extent, that there exists the possibility of a legitimate defense of the nation of Israel as a geopolitical entity, the outlines of which are beyond the scope of this thread. As well, I am highly interested in maintaining a watchfulness with regard to encroaching anti-semitism in any guise in these discussions.

I really had no problem with your response to the "no hijackers" issue, as I happen to agree that it is a red herring.

However, I also agree generally that your postings can be suspiciously content-free and trollish, so if you expect to continue to posting here, you should consider ways of addressing that. I can't force you to take on depth or nuance, but that is what is hoped for in these discussions and the short-circuiting of that by snide and rote accusations of anti-semitism whenever you are confronted with criticisms of Israel aren't appreciated or super valued.

Mac on the other hand is a valued and storied member of the community here, and, frankly, he'll probably have to go quite a long ways before being faced with the prospect of a chastisement that will leave any sort of a mark on his permanent record, no matter how pissy he gets, within remarkably loose reason. Sorry, but that's pretty much the way it is. I hope that tells you where you stand at the moment so there's less of an aire of mystery and suspicion surrounding your future circumstances.

Best of luck,

Dino

Yeah I get the whole old boys club shit. It sucks shit and I'm surprised it has an ugly head here but whatever. Thanks for the info though. And just so you know, 3000 paragraphs of bullshit is still bullshit. If Macnasty wanted to "discuss," he wouldn't be prancing around here like a banty fucking rooster that Jeff has 5 large on.