Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

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Postby compared2what? » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:03 pm

catbirdsteed wrote:
But c2w? why Morgellons Research Foundation.? I certainly did not mention them, mainly Mayo Clinic and Billboard, oh, and wikipedia. Do they seem like the mouthpiece for this "condition"? They are not ranked very high on a simple scroogle search? Granted, this emerging condition is possibly full of the spookiest bullshit and paranoia anywhere, but it might behoove a truly skeptical tone (et in Arcadia ego) to take on the more established (reputable?) players rather than engage in patent dismissal- ism.


I didn't say you or anybody mentioned them, honey. Or imply it. As I thought I had made clear, I mentioned them because they are by far the most active distributor of information on Morgellons for the lay-person in the English-speaking world. There's hardly been an article or TV segment about the syndrome that doesn't unquestioningly accept that the issues highlighted in their presentation are in fact the most pertinent ones on which to focus and -- as I said -- either quote or recap the experiences of one or more of their chosen representatives. epresentative exemplary interview subjects. And that's equally true whether the reporting is respectful or dismissive.

That, to me, is highly problematic. Because frankly, if the only crumbss of information I had about the subject were the ones they serve up in their talking points, I'd be at least as suspicious of its legitimacy as Et is. If not more so. Not only because what little hard evidence they offer is very questionable, or even primarily because what little hard evidence they offer if very questionable. But rather for exactly the same reasons I don't trust the cable news networks, primetime news magazines and lifestyle newspaper sections that have given them so much play: Whether its by design or incompetence or simply due to sheer naivete, they're engaged in exactly the kind of sensationalist and emotionally provocative fearmongering that makes those venues the cultural blight that they are.

And since, as I also said, what's being called Morgellons looks to me like one or more than one genuine and unrecognized parasitic and/or bacterial problems. If so, personally, I wouldn't want to see them continue to spread unchecked while the MRF sends out celebratory press releases about their triumphant attainment of a courtesy nod from the CDC or some similarly empty but high-profile gesture. Which is all they're ever going to achieve as long as they keep putting all their energy and money into amping up their mass-media branding and imaging campaign.

That's just not effective advocacy when what you're advocating for is a group of incapacitated and suffering human beings. Because however emotionally gratifying or soothing it is for their pain to have gotten some attention from Martin Basheer on broadcast television or what-have-you -- and I don't doubt that it's both -- it does absolutely nothing to alleviate the suffering itself.

Unless the only thing you're suffering from really is nothing more than an unhealthy need to have your high emotional dramas showcased on broadcast television. Which I don't think is the case for everyone (or even for most people) whose symptoms meet the criteria for Morgellons. The MRF just gives the impression that it is. Unfortunately.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:56 pm

Celebrities go nuts all the time.

catbird, you don't know anything about me, nor what I've studied, now for how long. I spent years, I repeat YEARS, DEEPLY studying 'chemtrails' to the point I might as well have gone to college for a degree. Because Morgellon's is joined to the hip with 'chemtrails', I studied that, as much as I was able, and like chemtrails, at the end of the day, this was what I found:

NOTHING, and I do mean nothing, but a barbed hook of an internet meme that jacks straight into the psyche of those predisposed to paranoid schitzophrenia.

When I say the internet can be a form of mental illness, I can't think of a better example. Hopefully, where you are now, which is where I have been, will one day release you and place you beside me where these kinds of horrible but unquantifiable internet anecdotes do not mar your own peace. I'm saddened and deeply empathize with the individuals who suffer under the aegis of Morgellon's, chemtrail belief, and Targeted Individuals, but I have not seen a SINGLE SUBSTANTIATED INSTANCE that ANY of it is true AT ALL.

Zero, de nada, zilch, and I cannot replace the time I spent ignoring my own family and friends chasing down these phantoms.

If you want to take up the gauntlet, more power to you, but seriously, its getting a little old having you weakly try to call me out every time I dismiss something.

You really don't know the first thing about me, so give it a fucking rest already, will ya?

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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:25 am

Wanna know how I really feel about all this shit?

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8vC9p_vkgw
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Postby catbirdsteed » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:35 am

likewise

Because Morgellon's is joined to the hip with 'chemtrails'


That certainly was the case a few years ago


If you want to take up the gauntlet, more power to you, but seriously, its getting a little old having you weakly try to call me out every time I dismiss something.


I do believe that you have spent the time you say researching that issue, perhaps much more than I have. and respect that you have differing conclusions, but your dismissal is weak on the page, regardless of how strong it is in your mind. I believe it is strong in your mind and that you are indeed capable of making it strong on the page. I respect that you may not want to take the time to do so.

I cannot replace the time I spent ignoring my own family and friends chasing down these phantoms.


Now this is an anecdote I can really appreciate.

You really don't know the first thing about me, so give it a fucking rest already, will ya?


Likewise, and okay. I thank you for being tactful and using some reserve. I know you have gotten peeved at me before and I don't need see anyone to go there again. By anyone I don't mean you, but those other threads were not very much fun for me. No more post about this from me, unless perhaps Ms Mitchell, insane or not, makes a statement to the press about this.
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Postby Silverfox » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:30 am

There is also a distinct possibility that Morgellon's might be entirely due to some unknown combination or compounding of the truly alarming array of toxic chemicals that everyone in North America already has in their bodies, or some kind of untoward biological reaction that's been inadvertently set-off by them for certain individuals.

To make matters worse there are even more and ever new ones being steadily sythesized and introduced into the environment with virtually no regard for either the effects they might have nor how they might eventually interact with the plethora of them that are already out there.

This article more or less sums up the rather immense size and all-pervasiveness of the predicament. It might also be possible that the so called "body burden" it refers to has actually been exceeded for those that are currently sufffering from Mogellon's.

"I Am Polluted"

By Mark Stevenson
The Globe and Mail
3-8-5

BOSTON -- My nose is clamped and I'm trying not to choke on a tube a scientist at Harvard University has stuffed in my mouth. I am blowing into a clear plastic bag, which is sealed and later studied for what it contains.

Sure, everyone suffers occasionally from a little bad breath. But what they found in mine was enough to keep my wife away for a week.

Besides my breath, researchers at Harvard's School of Public Health examined my blood, hair, urine, toenails and bones. It's all in the name of the emerging science of body burden, a concept referring to the amount of chemicals that accumulate in the human body.

As it turns out, I am polluted. Everyone is to some degree. But as the list of toxic chemicals identified in people continues to grow, scientists are trying to figure out what the implications are for human health.

"It is alarming," Professor John Spengler says. "This is not meant to be settling information. I think if more people wake up to this fact, the better we are going to be . . . and the more demanding we're going to be of our governments and our industries."

An estimated 35,000 chemicals are in commercial use in Canada and more than twice as many in the United States. The national American government registers an average of 2,000 newly synthesized chemicals each year.

Cosmetics have at least 5,000 chemicals; more than 3,200 are added to food. As many as 1,010 chemicals are used in the production of 11,700 consumer products, and about 500 chemicals are used as active ingredients in pesticides, according to Environmental Protection Agency data cited by the Environmental Working Group, based in Washington, D.C.

Many chemicals end up in the environment, even thousands of kilometres from industry.

Despite being banned years ago, PCBs are still found in Arctic wildlife. Biologists are also finding rising levels of polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs), flame retardants used in foam, textiles and plastics, as well as chlorinated paraffins, chemicals used in paints, sealants and rubber-processing.

Scotchgard, which is part of a family of chemicals used to make clothes, carpets and furniture stain-resistant, has been found in polar bears in Alaska and bald eagles around the Great Lakes.

If chemicals are showing up in wildlife and the environment, it's no surprise that many are being discovered in people.

"Pretty much from the minute you wake up to the moment you go to bed, you're exposed to hundreds and hundreds of chemicals," says Jane Houlihan, vice-president of research for the Environmental Working Group. "...In most cases, they're in minuscule quantities. But that fact is it's hundreds [of chemicals] and they're adding up."

What's disturbing, Prof. Spengler says, is how the majority of the chemicals have been approved for use without any research being done on their potential impact on human health, except mainly for those that end up in drugs or food.

What's more, little is known about what our chemical body burden truly is. "So measurements like we're doing on you, and myself, and our research subjects are really part of a new frontier because it's really trying to understand ... what effects these might have on disruption of human function," Prof. Spengler says.

No extensive study has considered the chemical body burden of Canadians, although separate studies have reported the presence of individual compounds -- for example, research documenting a dramatic rise of PBDEs in breast milk.

More wide-ranging studies have been done in the United States.

In one, researchers found at an average of 91 "industrial compounds, pollutants and chemicals" in the blood and urine of nine volunteers and a total of 167 chemicals in the group. According to the research, conducted by Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York with the Environmental Working Group, "76 cause cancer in humans or animals, 94 are toxic to the brain or nervous system, and 79 cause birth defects or abnormal development." None of the people tested worked with chemicals or lived near an industrial facility.

"I expected to find many different chemicals," Ms. Houlihan says. "But to actually see the numbers roll out that show that one person has 100 chemicals in their blood at one time. It's pretty powerful."

The most comprehensive research on body burden to date was conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and released in 2003. As part of the $6.5-million (U.S.) report, the agency tested the blood and urine of 2,500 volunteers for 116 compounds, including PCBs, pesticides, dioxins, furans and metals.

It found many of the contaminants in at least half of the people they tested. As well, researchers discovered elevated levels of lead in the blood of children and the ubiquitous presence of phthalates, chemicals widely used in plastics that are linked to cancer and reproductive problems in studies on rats.

Meanwhile, they also discovered that chemicals such as DDT and PCBs, which are banned or restricted, appear to be going down.

"Just because they can [detect it] doesn't mean it's at a dangerous level or a level that causes health effects. It mostly reflects the fact that we've improved our ability to measure," says Jim Pirkle, deputy director of science for the CDC, referring to new technology that allows scientists to identify compounds in amounts that would have gone unnoticed a decade earlier.

Dr. Pirkle notes that most of the chemicals being found are in infinitesimally small amounts of parts per million and parts per billion, equivalent to a grain of rice in an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

"There are going to be small levels of many things in people. That's because they're dispersed in low levels all over the environment. What you really have to do is stop and look at them one by one and go through them and say, 'Is that a level that's likely to cause disease? Is that a level that's so trivially small, we have good instruments that can measure it, but it's so small it's not of any concern?' You have to do that one chemical at a time."

All this brings us back to Harvard and my own results.

After bombarding my knee for half an hour with a small amount of radiation, the technician in the bone lab gives me the news: My skeleton is contaminated with lead.

Lead is an acute toxin. It's poisonous at higher levels. But even at low concentrations, research has linked it to an increased risk of hypertension, kidney disease, impaired neurological development in children, even cataracts.

The good news is my lead levels place me well within the average range for someone my age with no appreciable health risk, says Howard Hu, a professor of occupational and health medicine at Harvard's School of Public Health.

Others are less fortunate. Dr. Hu has measured lead amounts five to 10 times higher in many women, posing potential harm to their unborn babies.

"There's so many different exposure routes that just living and breathing can provide exposures today," he says. "Lead is in many different consumer products. It was in gasoline. ... It was in food cans, pipes and solder. ... It was in toys and plastics."

In another lab across the street, scientists have clipped a lock of my hair and are analyzing it. It will tell them how much mercury my body contains.

Although it occurs naturally in the environment, mercury is also a byproduct of coal-fired power plants and waste incinerators. When it enters the water and reacts with bacteria, it is transformed into methyl mercury and it accumulates in fish, and people when they eat it.

It's a neurotoxin and the human fetus is particularly vulnerable. At low doses, it can cause subtle changes to the developing brain; at larger doses, it can cause blindness and other birth defects. At high levels, it can kill nerve cells, causing blurred vision, lack of co-ordination and slurred speech.

Fortunately, my mercury level is .411 parts per million, about half the EPA guideline of 1 ppm.

Next came my blood results. As it turns out, my blood contains PCBs and pesticides, including DDT, an insecticide banned in North America decades ago. But for many people my age, my results are considered well within the low-to-average range.

Unfortunately, as Russ Hauser of Harvard's School of Public Health points out, his research is finding that men exposed to similar doses have problems with semen quality, which is associated with infertility.

"PCBs and DDT were banned decades ago, but they're still present in the environment," Dr. Hauser says. "You're exposed primarily through intake of food because they accumulate as we move up the food chain. ... So consuming fish, dairy products, meats, that's primarily how you're exposed."

Although the Harvard scientists were looking for arsenic, a highly poisonous metal, in my toenails, they found virtually none. Prof. Spengler wasn't surprised, saying it's something they typically find in people who drink water from a well and mine comes from a lake.

But he was amazed by something in my breath, the content of which is an indicator of relatively recent exposure to chemicals in the air. It wasn't the list of solvents, such as benzene, that are often associated with vehicle exhaust. It was MTBE, a fuel additive that is not supposed to be widely used in Canada (less than 2 per cent of gas in this country contains it, according to Environment Canada). Prof. Spengler speculates I breathed in MTBE on the way to Harvard in a taxi.

In total, the scientists found 76 chemicals in my body, including PCBs, pesticides, solvents and metals. Even though my body contains extremely small amounts of them, I can't help but ask Prof. Spengler whether I should be worried.

"I would say you're not very toxic compared to people we've measured all over the world, even compared to me," he says.

He points out that his own DDT levels place him in the top fifth of Americans. I'm in the bottom fifth.

"On the one hand, you might say, 'Well, I'm normal. I might be a little high on one thing and low on another.' But that's not the way we should look at it."

Prof. Spengler says the issue is not whether one has an average amount of chemicals in his body. Rather, it's why the average person is carrying around so many chemicals in the first place.

There has been little scientific inquiry into the net effect of being exposed to many chemicals at the same time, the so-called "toxic soup effect."

Complicating the toxicology is the counterintuitive concept of hormesis, a phenomenon in which a small dose of an otherwise toxic substance can be helpful. Studies on plants and animals have documented it in alcohol, antibiotics, hydrocarbons and pesticides.

Nevertheless, Prof. Spengler and many other scientists believe that exposure to a range of chemicals in the environment may be behind a host of emerging health problems in addition to those already well documented. "We're concerned about the growing rates of cancer in our society, the growing rates of autism," he says. "In most developed countries, asthma has grown substantially over the past 20 years, particularly in children"

As for myself, Prof. Spengler says there's very little I can do to reduce the contamination that is already in my body. Aside from eating different types of fish to lower my mercury level, the PCBs and pesticides are there for the long haul while the solvents will continue to show up in my breath as long as I'm exposed to cars and trucks, which are kind of difficult to avoid.

Prof. Spengler says the solution is targeting chemicals we don't want in our bodies in the first place. He points to PBDEs, which has been referred to as the "PCBs of the 21st century."

Research commissioned by The Globe and Mail and CTV News found that many everyday foods consumed by Canadians -- such as salmon, ground beef, cheese and butter -- are laced with PBDEs.

In Sweden, the flame retardants were banned after rising levels were noticed in the breast milk of women. "They said to the industry, 'We don't want them in our plastics. We don't what them in our materials' -- and they started to see the levels come down," Prof. Spengler says.

"Now, you see the similar data out of North American women. . . . The levels are already 50 times higher in our populations and nobody is saying, 'Ban that product.' ... So I think this really has to do with how we've come to judge what is beneficial to the population," he says. "[But] at what point do we invoke some precaution?"
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:48 pm

Thanks for posting, Silverfox.

It's....I don't know what it is, exactly, actually, other than too [some adjective expressive of bewilderment and despair here] for words that the basic truths in that article will apparently always be news to most people, no matter how well-established, widely publicized and easily accessible they are and have been for...I'm going to say at least the last four-and-a-half decades or so, although it may be a little longer than that, primarily because I'm lazy and I already know that Silent Spring was published in 1962. Whereas I would have to do some actual research to find out how long the data that Rachel Carson drew on while writing it had been around. Plus how accessible around wherever it had been was or wasn't. And...I'm digressing, as I so often do.

But the point at which I was aiming was: I'd imagine that at least by the late '50s, the gist of this information must have been known to quite a few people at, say, Dow and Monsanto; plus a slew of academic chemists all over the world; plus the usual assortment of departments, agencies and offices to which the federal government assigns the very important task of doing nothing about such information; and so on. And some of them must have been troubled enough by it to have clearly outlined how and why the practice of saturating the entire natural world with deadly poisons was -- astonishingly enough -- not in fact the unalloyed miracle of modern science it was then popularly believed to be. And furthermore, that its myriad dangers were not going to do anything but increase exponentially over time.

That's just a guess, I fully concede. However, I'm basing it on the not-very-controversial premise that, for god's sake, if you even have two brain cells to rub together, you hardly need any damn data to understand what makes the hypothesis that poison is poisonous is highly likely to be a clinically demonstrable theory.

Why is it, do you all think, that people are so unable to learn, retain and integrate the knowledge of something as straightforward as that when it's been right there in plain view in just about every inhabited landscape on earth for decades?

I've never understood the psychology of denial wrt this particular issue. It's not like anyone enjoys pollution and the number of people who occupy the plus side of any and every cost-benefit equation you can extract from it would be so tiny you could probably name every one of them in most cases. Whereas almost everyone has naturally positive feelings about pretty, pleasant-smelling,yummy fruit-bearing, etc. flora, not to mention irrationally warn and enthusiastic ones about adorable, amusingly colored, physically impressive (ie -- projectively sexually identified), etc. fauna.

It should therefore be an easy win, it seems to me, rather than a seeming impossibility.

What's up with that?
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:24 pm

I'll give you all a rare insight into one of my deeper sojourns into Chapel Perilous. I'm not very proud I had my brains sucked out by this stuff years back, so when I tell you this story, I'm hoping you'll laugh about it and maybe apply some introspection.

Anyways..

So, reading all the material I can about Morgellon's, I come across one theory that its a parasitic worm that can be found in cotton. The gist is that due to de-regulations, the cotton industry's standards fell low enough that this agent was able to remain intact through the manufacturing process and find its way into our homes quite easily.

I found this to be a truly insidious matter, indeed.

One person chimed in about how to spot the cotton worm: All you had to do was rip the head off a Q-tip and you had an 80% chance of seeing one come up and start moving about, so I jumped on the chance to see one myself.

I went in my bathroom and grabbed a bunch of Q-tips with some rubber gloves on. I sat on the side of my bath tub and proceeded to remove some of the Q-tip cotton. Sure enough, there were fibers that moved around, some slow, some not so slow, but it was really obvious that there was motion, so I freaked out and yelled for my wife to come in and see it.

She came in, and asked me why I was breathing so heavy on her now-ruined Q-tips.

Just laugh about it and fucking move on.

I agree with Silverfox about the level of contamination and saturation of toxins in our bodies, its no wonder our fucking skins haven't turned green by now.
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Postby justdrew » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:12 pm

compared2what? wrote:What's up with that?


vast sums of money from the chemical industry going back lifetimes. Seriously. In a coordinated effort to silence and distract. Campaigners were working in the late 40s to warn about the toxic effects of a variety of things. I've got a clip from a Frank Cappra movie from the early 50s! warning that CO2 emissions could cause global climate change. I've got an old book from the 40s talking about the dangers of overfishing and ocean pollution, discussing fish stocks that don't even exist anymore.

individuals have spent literally lifetimes trying to warn people. Fuck people. They won't listen; mister suit-and-tie comes around with free money and forgetaboutit.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:49 pm

some adjective expressive of bewilderment and despair here


I think the word you're looking for is bewildespairing.


Whereas almost everyone has naturally positive feelings about pretty, pleasant-smelling,yummy fruit-bearing, etc. flora, not to mention irrationally warn and enthusiastic ones about adorable, amusingly colored, physically impressive (ie -- projectively sexually identified), etc. fauna.


Not to mention a near universal aversion to exotic illnesses that kill you with excruciating symptoms that leave the experts scratching their heads.

What's up with that?


Partial answer:

What kind of a man can't hold his poison?

Image

No limp wristed, tree huggin', commie faggot's gonna tell me what I can and can't poison myself with.

It's totally fucking nuts, but I have seen people intentionally, repeatedly expose themselves to highly toxic substances when safety devices were available to them.

I think what is equally amazing is how well our bodies cope with all of these substances that have never existed in nature when we can't have had time to genetically adapt. It seems that most of us function pretty normally for quite a long time. It's astonishing that I am still alive after all the abuse I've subjected myself to over the years.
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Postby Penguin » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:18 am

It's totally fucking nuts, but I have seen people intentionally, repeatedly expose themselves to highly toxic substances when safety devices were available to them.


Yeah...Ive seen guys intentionally not use rubber gloves while handling solvents that leach thru the skin into the blood stream, and when I noted this aloud, he just said "Fuck it, I smoke 2 packs a day anyway, whats it to that?"

The worst Ive heard (not seen, Id been running away at that point) was an idiot changing the valve to a chlorine gas container WITHOUT a mask. That could have been instant death, luckily it was totally empty and he prolly did not inhale at the same time. Not that it would have helped had it not been totally empty.
"In its common elemental form (Cl2 or "dichlorine") under standard conditions, it is a pale green gas about 2.5 times as dense as air. It has a disagreeable, suffocating odor that is detectable in concentrations as low as 1 ppm,[1] and is choking and poisonous."
Coughing and vomiting may occur at 30 ppm and lung damage at 60 ppm. About 1000 ppm can be fatal after a few deep breaths of the gas.[4] Breathing lower concentrations can aggravate the respiratory system, and exposure to the gas can irritate the eyes.[41]



And Ive heard AGA gas company exec explain how Nitrogen (N2) is so dangerous because its utterly flammable and burns with an invisible flame.
Bah. And the guy worked for a company selling pressure containers and refilling them :S
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen
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Re: Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

Postby MinM » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:34 pm



Bob Dylan is 'a plagiarist', claims Joni Mitchell | Music | guardian.co.uk
"But let's begin with Dylan. Mitchell was speaking to the LA Times as part of a joint interview with performance artist John Kelly, who has performed Mitchell's songs in drag. The Times interviewer referred to Old Nasal Voice in passing, citing his name-change from Robert Zimmerman to Bob Dylan. (Mitchell also abandoned her birth name, Roberta Joan Anderson.) Mitchell launched into an unprovoked assault. "We are like night and day, he and I," she scoffed. "Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception." ...


rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - 60's Counterculture: Through a Bong, Darkly

rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - Laurel Canyon
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Re: Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

Postby nathan28 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:17 pm

MinM wrote:Bob Dylan is 'a plagiarist', claims Joni Mitchell | Music | guardian.co.uk
"But let's begin with Dylan. Mitchell was speaking to the LA Times as part of a joint interview with performance artist John Kelly, who has performed Mitchell's songs in drag. The Times interviewer referred to Old Nasal Voice in passing, citing his name-change from Robert Zimmerman to Bob Dylan. (Mitchell also abandoned her birth name, Roberta Joan Anderson.) Mitchell launched into an unprovoked assault. "We are like night and day, he and I," she scoffed. "Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception." ...


rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - 60's Counterculture: Through a Bong, Darkly

rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - Laurel Canyon


Um, duh.

Image

Does this make the latest Todd Hayes piece a KWH to disguise the reality of Morgellon's?
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Re: Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

Postby The Consul » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:51 pm

I saw Joni not that long ago with Dylan and Van Morrison. The show ended with them singing "I Shall Be Released." They seemed happy, like friend happy. But maybe it was just the avg ticket price of $115 of 16,000 people. Wait, maybe it was a while ago. She went out of her way to diss anyone who felt pitty for Kurt Cobain. Van Morrison was more focused on Frank Sinatra, who died the day before. Her skin looked fine. She always looks scared to me. Kinda like I do in the mirror. Shit happens to you and the Docs say, It must be Schwarkovyis Dementia Praecox psychosis, ya? Sometimes they're right; that is, when they perform an autopsy. Ya, you see, it was Fletersbecker's Myocardio Bicameral Frictive Ulceration!
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Re: Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

Postby MinM » Fri May 28, 2010 12:40 am

justdrew wrote:

The Phil Ochs Question - The Education Forum
Dylan and Oswald

Bob Dylan and the NECLC

BOB DYLAN'S REMARKS AT THE BILL OF RIGHTS DINNER
at the Americana Hotel on 12/13/63

"I haven't got any guitar, I can talk though. I want to thank you for the Tom Paine award in behalf everybody that went down to Cuba. First of all because they're all young and it's took me a long time to get young and now I consider myself young. And I'm proud of it. I'm proud that I'm young. And I only wish that all you people who are sitting out here today or tonight weren't here and I could see all kinds of faces with hair on their head - and everything like that, everything leading to youngness, celebrating the anniversary when we overthrew the House Un-American Activities just yesterday...

And they talk about Negroes, and they talk about black and white. And they talk about colors of red and blue and yellow. Man, I just don't see any colors at all when I look out. I don't see any colors at all and if people have taught through the years to look at colors - I've read history books, I've never seen one history book that tells how anybody feels. I've found facts about our history, I've found out what people know about what goes on but I never found anything about anybody feels about anything happens. It's all just plain facts. And it don't help me one little bit to look back.

I want to accept this award, the Tom Paine Award, from the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee. I want to accept it in my name but I'm not really accepting it in my name and I'm not accepting it in any kind of group's name, any Negro group or any other kind of group. There are Negroes - I was on the march on Washington up on the platform and I looked around at all the Negroes there and I didn't see any Negroes that looked like none of my friends. My friends don't wear suits. My friends don't have to wear suits. My friends don't have to wear any kind of thing to prove that they're respectable Negroes. My friends are my friends, and they're kind, gentle people if they're my friends. And I'm not going to try to push nothing over.

So, I accept this reward - not reward, (Laughter) award in behalf of Phillip Luce who led the group to Cuba which all people should go down to Cuba. I don't see why anybody can't go to Cuba. I don't see what's going to hurt by going any place. I don't know what's going to hurt anybody's eyes to see anything. On the other hand, Phillip is a friend of mine who went to Cuba. I'll stand up and to get uncompromisable about it, which I have to be to be honest, I just got to be, as I got to admit that the man who shot President Kennedy, Lee Oswald, I don't know exactly where —what he thought he was doing, but I got to admit honestly that I too - I saw some of myself in him. I don't think it would have gone - I don't think it could go that far. But I got to stand up and say I saw things that he felt, in me - not to go that far and shoot. (Boos and hisses) You can boo but booing's got nothing to do with it. It's a - I just a - I've got to tell you, man, it's Bill of Rights is free speech and I just want to admit that I accept this Tom Paine Award in behalf of James Forman of the Students Non-Violent Coordinating Committee and on behalf of the people who went to Cuba. (Boos and Applause)"

December 19, 1963

Phil Ochs - The Education Forum
Bob Dylan is 'a plagiarist', claims Joni Mitchell | Music | guardian.co.uk
"But let's begin with Dylan. Mitchell was speaking to the LA Times as part of a joint interview with performance artist John Kelly, who has performed Mitchell's songs in drag. The Times interviewer referred to Old Nasal Voice in passing, citing his name-change from Robert Zimmerman to Bob Dylan. (Mitchell also abandoned her birth name, Roberta Joan Anderson.) Mitchell launched into an unprovoked assault. "We are like night and day, he and I," she scoffed. "Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception." ...

Swans Commentary: Bob Dylan's "Chronicles Volume One." by Louis Proyect - lproy29
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Re: Joni Mitchell- Morgellons victim

Postby The Consul » Fri May 28, 2010 1:12 am

kinda like instead of singing how does it feel to be on your own with no direction home like a rolling stone

he sang

how does it feel to be so loose to draw a deuce like a duck in a noose officer Moose, like lenny bruce
.....just make sure the cord reaches all the way out of the building....
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