it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby justdrew » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:23 pm

ok, nordic, here's some thoughts on possible benefits...

"intended it to happen" doesn't necessarily mean they expected it to be as bad and troublesome as it's been.

theoretically, a major pile of money is being spent, someone's receiving that money. somehow I doubt the people getting the money are pricing their sales at cost. a side benefit perhaps, but it's cash money flowing into other corporate hands and if those on the receiving end are heavily invested in by friends and family of the deciders at bp...

this has stopped all their competitors off-shore well development operations too and kinked up their plans badly I'd think.

maybe BP would like to discourage off shore drilling (for now) and concentrate on other sources, was surprised when Obama opened up more areas to drilling, and wanted to slow/stop that trend so as not to loose out on their tar sands and/or other land based sources they're developing.
This whole thing makes off-shore drilling look much more risky than it needs to be, if they had just done it right, been appropriately over-cautious, overbuilt-in safety margins, they could have spent twice as much and still been getting billions in free money out of this deposit.

not sure why but I still think it's somehow significant that this was only an "exploratory well"

what other assets does BP have ready to come on-line?

it just might be possible that this will end up not having anywhere near as terrible consequences as we're all expecting. if in three years things are mostly back to normal (unlikely though that seems (and yet BP could have believed that to be the likely outcome (especially if they thought they would have been able to stop it earlier))) there could be a serious loss of credibility for environmentalists.

is this having any effect on the price of oil or oil futures or other derivatives? any other commodities being effected?
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:35 pm

They are up to no good and have figured out some way to profit from this catastrophe.



Former Shell Oil Chief, Engineer: Supertankers Could Save the Gulf, So Why Won't BP Listen?
BY ARIEL SCHWARTZThu May 13, 2010
John Hofmeister and Nick Pozzi tell Fast Company how a possible solution to the Gulf Oil spill is sitting under BP's nose.

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Underwater robots, containment domes, top hats, hot taps, junk shots ... the potential fixes to the Gulf Oil Spill sound like they come straight from a cringeworthy disaster flick (or a PR think tank). But what if the solution is right under our noses? What if it's already sitting in the Gulf? John Hofmeister, the former president of Shell Oil, and Nick Pozzi, a former pipeline engineering and operations project manager for Saudi Aramco, think it might be.
According to Hofmeister, oil supertankers could be used to suck up massive amounts of oil--possibly millions of barrels at a time.
In an interview with FastCompany.com, Hofmeister explained that a little-known Saudi oil spill from an offshore platform in the early 1990s dumped more crude into the sea than any spill in U.S. history (think hundreds of millions of gallons). But the government and local press kept it quiet. And that's why one of the big fixes in the Saudi oil spill--the oil-skimming supertanker--hasn't been publicized.
"[They] figured out how to deploy supertankers that had the ability to both intake and discharge liquids in vast quantities with huge pumps," Hofmeister explained. "The supertankers could simply suck in seawater and oil simultaneously--they can hold millions of barrels--and when full, they could discharge oil at a port into tanks where they could separate oil from water. The idea is novel in that you can get massive of oil amounts quickly." Once the supertankers make it to to the port, water can be treated and discharged, and oil can either be used or destroyed.
Pozzi saw the technique used in the Middle East, where it recovered 85% of the oil from the Saudi spill. And he thinks it could work in the Gulf of Mexico. "The only downside is that you tie up oil tankers. That's why we think that BP won't listen to us. They don't want to spend that extra money."
After learning about the supertanker technique a few weeks ago, Hofmeister decided to bring it to the government's attention. "I've been trying to connect engineers with decision-makers at the Coast Guard and in the interior department," he said.
Pozzi and his business partner Jon King have also tried to contact officials, with no luck. "I called the President of BP, got his secretary and then got a call from a lady inside the building we were standing outside of. We never really heard back from her. Nick also knew some people and got one of the men in charge of the spill. He threatened to sue Nick for not going through channels," King said.
But even if BP and the government both approve the technique, it will take a while before it can be implemented. "A lot of these supertankers are sitting on the ocean full of oil. How do you get them empty? It may take some time to organize," Hofmeister explained. And, of course, organizers will have to make sure that the supertankers don't crash into each other. All the more reason to get started now.
BP would be wise to listen to Pozzi, who has 40 years of experience in the oil and gas industry. "It's what you can't see that's going to hurt you for years to come. What you see now is just the tip of the iceberg," he said.
Hofmeister, however, has confidence in the oil spill cleanup effort. "There are 13,000 people organized and engaged at cleaning up this spill. It's kind of remarkable to put that kind of task force together in this kind of time frame," he said. "I think there are very smart people managing this process."
Speaking of that process, BP's latest video as been released, and it shows the failed attempt to lower the cofferdam over the gushing well. Remember, this thing is 98 tons and 40 feet tall. Puts that spewing pipe in perspective.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby Project Willow » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:04 am

Former Shell Oil Chief, Engineer: Supertankers Could Save the Gulf, So Why Won't BP Listen?


Because it costs $$$$$$

Amongst other impediments.

There is no MIHOP here. Look, here is the testimony of the workers on the rig. It was hubris, pure cliched human short-sighted upsmanship, stanky-shiate power arrogance just like in any sci-fi disaster movie you've ever seen. Big wig BP guy overrides protocol despite workers' reservations, workers believe safety systems will save them, they are wrong, end result: disaster. Instead of a Hollywood movie, this time we get to contemplate our own extinction FOR REAL. Fun, don't ya think?

There is no big mystery here, none. Every single one of BP's decisions to this point is readily explained in terms of the bottom line and human fallibility.

It is extraordinarily harmful for those exposing real conspiracies to have others assume that anything or everything that goes terribly, horribly wrong in contemporary society is a fetid conspiracy as well. I call for rigor here, please, let's have some rigor.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby Hugo Farnsworth » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:44 am

I don't think it was MIHOP. It's more like the Titanic.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby 82_28 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:49 am

But can you Make it Happen on Purpose after the fact? So you fucked up. Sweet. Way to go. You have absolutely fucked up everything for a minimum of infinity. However, how do they leverage this? NPR is saying "we should have been green all along". NBC had a story of a dude with 9 kids -- which they were not bashful about announcing and no doubt coloring the liberal, city folk view of GoM dwellers. This will be leveraged. As I was saying weeks ago. BP should have been seized immediately. This is gonna be one strange summer. I don't think Obama makes it past August. It all plays into you know who's hands. Who? Them.

If you didn't mean to destroy planet Earth, why not capitalize on it after the fact now that the deed has been done? There is no reason that this government with the most "powerful" military ever known to humankind can't fucking seize the fuck out of BP. Yet it's not happening or hasn't happened yet. Total bullshit. If we have the "tech" to kill a fucking enemy combatant from miles away -- totally "judiciously" -- you know we can just tell from satellite feeds who's an extranational criminal and who's not -- this company can be put away in a day. But of course not. BP destroying planet earth is far less exceptional than a fucking 20 year old dude from Pakistan or some such finding a place to park somehow in Times Square. Jesus H Christ. It really does boggle the mind and yet it still doesn't.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby Nordic » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:50 am

Hugo Farnsworth wrote:I don't think it was MIHOP. It's more like the Titanic.


Hey, if this board existed when the Titanic went down, somebody would be claiming that too was MIHOP.

IMO that just discredits the real MIHOP's of the world.

Not helpful.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby smiths » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:05 am

the titanic was full of rich important individuals, no-one would have claimed anything of the sort

working on the assumption that it was almost certainly just a greed induced fuck up and subsequent catastrophe seems sensible to me,
claiming to know, for certain, that there was no helping hand in this whole thing and ridiculing those who raise the possibility is unwise if history is a guide

i wrote a list before of those who might gain, it doesnt mean i think they had a hand in doing it,
but looking at it, and asking the questions at least with a bit of sober circumspection is the basis of any good investigation
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby undead » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:40 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ath-impact

No major fish kills have yet been reported, but federal officials said the impacts could take years to unfold. "This is just a giant experiment going on and we're trying to understand scientifically what this means," said Roger Helm, a senior official with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby wintler2 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:37 am

smiths wrote:..claiming to know, for certain, that there was no helping hand in this whole thing and ridiculing those who raise the possibility is unwise if history is a guide


True. And the same applies for claiming to know for certain that it was MIHOP. Based on evidence provided so far on this thread, none of us know for certain.

Project Willow wrote:.. I call for rigor here, please, let's have some rigor.


Word.

Its fine and i think a sign of good mental health to be freaked out by the scale of our disasters, but i find 'freaked out' to be a bad place from which to leap to conclusions..

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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:43 am

undead wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/31/bp-oil-spill-death-impact

No major fish kills have yet been reported, but federal officials said the impacts could take years to unfold. "This is just a giant experiment going on and we're trying to understand scientifically what this means," said Roger Helm, a senior official with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Even if the fish aren't dying yet, do you really want to eat them?

Then don't wonder why, when we see a sharp uprise in assorted cancers from all the exposure we're going to be dosed with from these toxins.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:52 am

No, I don't think the Deepwater Horizon was deliberately sabotaged but it is something that should be part of a real investigation. Too many systems failed for there not to be something seriously wrong here.

This was an accident waiting to happen. So it would be another LIHOP not a MIHOP event, that has it roots in Dick Cheney's secret energy meetings. They knew that eventually there would be a disaster and just like on 9/11 and Katrina the battle plan is to sit back and do as little as possible to prevent it or respond to it when it finally happens.
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby beeline » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:31 pm

DYEW wrote:Even if the fish aren't dying yet, do you really want to eat them?


I was actually thinking about this the other day, what if people stop eating fish because of this disaster? Will it be enough for the oceans to recover? I mean, I sure don't want to eat anything that comes out of the ocean anymore. Are there enough people like me?
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:39 pm

beeline wrote:
DYEW wrote:Even if the fish aren't dying yet, do you really want to eat them?


I was actually thinking about this the other day, what if people stop eating fish because of this disaster? Will it be enough for the oceans to recover? I mean, I sure don't want to eat anything that comes out of the ocean anymore. Are there enough people like me?


I just wanted to get this in, don't get your hopes up (*_*)
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby beeline » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:13 pm

.

Heh, I KNEW there were Hawks fans somewhere on this board!
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Re: it's clear now: BP intentionally caused spill

Postby Nordic » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:42 pm

ridiculing those who raise the possibility


I wasn't. I was ridiculing those who claim to KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was MIHOP based on nothing but their own hatred and anger.

And yes, of course, any investigation has to of course consider the possibility of sabotage.

I once had an idea for a screenplay where a distraught environmental terrorist rams a speedboat filled with explosives into a new deep-sea oil rig, one that had recently struck oil into a heretofore unknown oil field, resulting in an environmental apocalypse just like this one.

If I've thought of that, so have other people.
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