Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

[Percival]

Is there any possibility that Hamas' threat is impotent?

This from Haaretz back in 2008:

IDF will face around 15,000 armed Palestinians if major operation in Gaza Strip goes ahead.

...

The main components of the "Hamas Army":

Order of battle: Hamas is transitioning from a terror group to a paramilitary guerrilla organization. The transition includes improvements to the command and control structure, the acquisition of better weapons and the creation of a training program.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... s-1.260281
There's that Che again... damn that guy...

When I said as much in an earlier post Alice said it was hate speech. Of course they are growing in numbers and plan to deliver on their promise of extermination, things are not getting better they are getting worse.

[seemslikeadream]

I dont know of any other situation in the world like that of Muslims and Jews, specifically Hamas and Israel.

I also dont know of any people that lost 6 million in one shebang.

Really? Well I do

Irish

Native American

Congo


Iraq is up to over a million

My great grandmother when threatened with extinction left her Eireann.



The problem I see is that until folks realize they can not own the earth they will fight for it, therefore destroy it to possess it. Fun days for every one

this is my last post in this thread, I'm back to the latest extermination..... in the gulf.

[crikkett]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that.

Hey waitaminute, I did answer and apparently you dismissed me out of hand.

[Searcher08]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

This is really interesting - part of me wants to call BS!.. and say "Yet another Zionist who wont answer the 10 NK questions" - don't think that slipped past me...

The other part of me is in a different place:


When I hear you say

why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination

I wonder if you are saying you experience a feeling that you are threatened with extermination?
If so, I feel sad that you feel that - and can imagine it makes you feel like being on a hair trigger all the time.

Hmm...

OK, I'll make you a deal. How about you and I create a thread where I agree to use (to the very best of my ability) Marshall Rosenberg's NVC conflict resolution process with you. This thread would need to be free of he said / she said and would need to focus on finding what YOUR needs (as oppose to wants) are as an Israeli and Zionist. I'm really sticking my neck out with this as I'm not an expert or trained in it - however if you are willing to give it a try, I would do my very best. It would be neutral on my part, so I would act as a listener and facilitator rather than debater.

With YOU, I sense you are someone who, like myself, can get very emotional about this issue. I can too, but from the other side, so I see a commonality that might be fruitful and something about how you spoke about kids connected with me.

Have a think, I am signing off now as its 2am local time and am wilting, but it could be worth a try

[Percival]

I dont know of any other situation in the world like that of Muslims and Jews, specifically Hamas and Israel.

I also dont know of any people that lost 6 million in one shebang.

Really? Well I do

Irish

Native American

Congo


Iraq is up to over a million

Six million in a period of a few years?

I am not talking about wars that have dragged on for centuries with casualties adding up over long periods of time. I am talking about an attempt to literally exterminate an entire people all at once within a few short years.

Who and when and where?

[Percival]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that.

Hey waitaminute, I did answer and apparently you dismissed me out of hand.

I acknowledged that it was a good heartfelt suggestion but it didnt address how Israel is supposed to deal with that Hamas thread of extermination.

[Percival]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

This is really interesting - part of me wants to call BS!.. and say "Yet another Zionist who wont answer the 10 NK questions" - don't think that slipped past me...

The other part of me is in a different place:




When I hear you say

why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination

I wonder if you are saying you experience a feeling that you are threatened with extermination?
If so, I feel sad that you feel that - and can imagine it makes you feel like being on a hair trigger all the time.

Hmm...

OK, I'll make you a deal. How about you and I create a thread where I agree to use (to the very best of my ability) Marshall Rosenberg's NVC conflict resolution process with you. This thread would need to be free of he said / she said and would need to focus on finding what YOUR needs (as oppose to wants) are as an Israeli and Zionist. I'm really sticking my neck out with this as I'm not an expert or trained in it - however if you are willing to give it a try, I would do my very best. It would be neutral on my part, so I would act as a listener and facilitator rather than debater.

With YOU, I sense you are someone who, like myself, can get very emotional about this issue. I can too, but from the other side, so I see a commonality that might be fruitful and something about how you spoke about kids connected with me.

Have a think, I am signing off now as its 2am local time and am wilting, but it could be worth a try

Searcher great idea, I think that you are sincere and I do understand this is an emotional issue.

I dont get on as much as I would like so if you would be patient and we can move slowly with such a thread, I am game for sure.

[vanlose kid]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

"Isreal feels"? Or is it "Israel feels"? Israel is a sentient entity?

If Israel, by Zionist definition, is a Jewish state, Israel as an entity would not include Arab "Israelis" normally considered a fifth column threat would it?

I mean by including them you'd have to say Israel doesn't know how it feels, wouldn't you? Or that it feels schizophrenic and is a danger to itself.

What counts as Israel?

Historically the Zionist project was racial, not religious. What counted, and still counts is bloodline. Today it's the Y-chromosome and mitochondric DNA (which is a supposedly more "benign" form of race-science) but still, its a racial parameter.

Which is weird because, by dropping the question of religious identity, if Israelis really followed through on the racial aspect they'd have to accept that Palestinians, or what might strike them as even worse, Arabs are to be counted as Jews. So, taking a remark in a Helen Thomas scandal/indoctrination video into account: "Doesn't she know that Jews lived in 'Israel' before the holocaust?" they'd have to answer: Yes! And they were Muslim, Christian, Druze, and Hebrew/Jewish, you name it.

Which speaks toward a solution in my view, but one which racially inclined Zionists probably would not accept, and that is: The Dissolution of the exclusive Jewish state of Israel (as Zionist exceptionalists understand it), which again amounts to an inclusive state where all Muslims, Christians, Druze, and Hebrews are equally represented. With Jerusalem as its capital.

But whatever the case, to answer Percival's [and barracuda's from the locked thread] question: "[H]ow Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?" It can't. Israel as conceived of by Zionists and racial lines is an idea far past its sell-by date. It smells funny. Look around. The idea of a state based on race belongs to the days of heimat and lebensraum. It's no longer viable. And to insist on it will only lead to greater and more prolonged bloodshed.

*
edited [twice] for typos and insertions in [ ].

[Searcher08]

Thank you! Yes, I feel it will need time and patience and space but be very worthwhile.

[Peregrine]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

This is really interesting - part of me wants to call BS!.. and say "Yet another Zionist who wont answer the 10 NK questions" - don't think that slipped past me...

The other part of me is in a different place:




When I hear you say

why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination

I wonder if you are saying you experience a feeling that you are threatened with extermination?
If so, I feel sad that you feel that - and can imagine it makes you feel like being on a hair trigger all the time.

Hmm...

OK, I'll make you a deal. How about you and I create a thread where I agree to use (to the very best of my ability) Marshall Rosenberg's NVC conflict resolution process with you. This thread would need to be free of he said / she said and would need to focus on finding what YOUR needs (as oppose to wants) are as an Israeli and Zionist. I'm really sticking my neck out with this as I'm not an expert or trained in it - however if you are willing to give it a try, I would do my very best. It would be neutral on my part, so I would act as a listener and facilitator rather than debater.

With YOU, I sense you are someone who, like myself, can get very emotional about this issue. I can too, but from the other side, so I see a commonality that might be fruitful and something about how you spoke about kids connected with me.

Have a think, I am signing off now as its 2am local time and am wilting, but it could be worth a try

Searcher great idea, I think that you are sincere and I do understand this is an emotional issue.

I dont get on as much as I would like so if you would be patient and we can move slowly with such a thread, I am game for sure.

Now we're talkin'...

I've posted this before but I'll do it again because this guy... is awesome. Even if he does use puppets sometimes.

[seemslikeadream]

Who and when and where?

Congo since 1998 5.4 million

[DoYouEverWonder]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

If you haven't noticed, we're all being threatened with extermination at the moment?

And it won't be the first time in history that's happened and the Jewish people aren't the only ones it's happened to.

How do we deal with this threat? By living in fear and hatred? Where will that get you? Not much a life when you become the thing you hate the most.

I dont know of any other situation in the world like that of Muslims and Jews, specifically Hamas and Israel.

I also dont know of any people that lost 6 million in one shebang.

I think the Jewish problem is unique personally and it is going to take unique solutions to fix it.

The first step IMO would be for the people of the Gaza to stop supporting Hamas, maybe then the people of Israel would stop supporting western backed right wing sycophants like Netanyahu, Sharon, Barak, et. al.. Like I have said before I am not a big fan of Likudniks but at the moment they seem to be the only ones willing to do what is needed to protect the people of Israel.

You might want to consider broadening your world view bit.

This is just one recent example of genocide that I found by goggling for one minute.

Even though the war may have officially ended years ago, people in the Congo are still dying at a rate of an estimated 45,000 per month; 2,700,000 people have died since 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War.

The number of people killed at the death camps has been estimated as follows:

* Auschwitz-Birkenau: about 1,100,000[11]
* Treblinka: at least 700,000[12]
* Bełżec: about 434,500[13]
* Sobibór: about 167,000[14]
* Chełmno: about 152,000[15]
* Majdanek: 78,000[16]

These numbers total just under 2,700,000 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

[smiths]

The first step IMO would be for the people of the Gaza to stop supporting Hamas

this is utterly unrealistic based on all human history,
a peoples under an occupation or a siege will almost always stick with a leadership that claims to be defending their rights as a people

have you read Josephus Percival?

[seemslikeadream]

FIVE FUCKIN' YEARS Percival

The bones of the murdered 5.2 million are scattered across Ireland

[Percival]

Like I have asked before, instead of the name calling and criticism why dont you tell us all how Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?

Seems funny that nobody has stepped up to the challenge of answering that. Could that be because they dont have any answers.


Now you know how Israel feels.

"Isreal feels"? Or is it "Israel feels"? Israel is a sentient entity?

If Israel, by Zionist definition, is a Jewish state, Israel as an entity would not include Arab "Israelis" normally considered a fifth column threat would it?

I mean by included them you'd have to say Israel doesn't know how it feels, wouldn't you? Or that it feels schizophrenic and is a danger to itself.

What counts as Israel?

Historically the Zionist project was racial, not religious. What counted, and still counts is bloodline. Today it's the Y-chromosome and mitochondric DNA (which is a supposedly more "benign" form of race-science) but still, its a racial parameter.

Which is weird because, by dropping the question of religious identity, if Israelis really followed through on the racial aspect they'd have to accept that Palestinians, or what might strike them as even worse, Arabs are to be counted as Jews. So, taking a remark in a Helen Thomas scandal/indoctrination video into account: "Doesn't she know that Jews lived in 'Israel' before the holocaust?" they'd have to answer: Yes! And they were Muslim, Christian, Druze, and Hebrew/Jewish, you name it.

Which speaks toward a solution in my view, but one which racially inclined Zionists probably would not accept, and that is: The Dissolution of the exclusive Jewish state of Israel (as Zionist exceptionalists understand it), which again amounts to an inclusive state where all Muslims, Christians, Druze, and Hebrews are equally represented. With Jerusalem as its capital.

But whatever the case, to answer Percival's [and barracuda's from the locked thread] question: "[H]ow Israel is supposed to deal with the threat of extermination?" It can't. Israel as conceived of by Zionists and racial lines is an idea far past its sell-by date. It smells funny. Look around. The idea of a state based on race belongs to the days of heimat and lebensraum. It's no longer viable. And to insist on it will only lead to greater and more prolonged bloodshed.

*
edited once for typos and insertions in [ ].

I think that this is very well thought out and certainly sincere. I need more time to give this consideration from all sides but my first question is, you seem to believe the Zionists wouldnt accept this when my question would be what gives you the idea that the Muslims/Arabs would accept this. My experience is that no matter how much Israel gives they will always want more, they ultimately want it all and want all Jews gone from the region. Now it can be debated as to whether they have that right or not, who was there first, chicken/egg type thing, which is another whole discussion, but again, I dont feel positive or certain that the Muslims/Arabs would accept your solution, but I do agree it is certainly something that should be considered and I have no personal objection to it at all.