ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Can any area of para research be effectual if "contaminated" by other types of para topic?

No. Paranormal subjects generally detract from political activism being taken seriously / becoming effective.
3
13%
Yes. If handled appropriately paranormal interests don't necessarily detract from efforts at being taken seriously regarding political activism.
10
43%
It aint so simple as a Yes / No answer because...
10
43%
 
Total votes : 23

ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby elfismiles » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:21 pm

Okay, this is a very rough / rushed attempt at this idea as part of my reply to PW in this thread:

No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28500

Project Willow wrote:Tell me then, how is it possible to discern the scientific import from the crazy circus?
Whom do you think the crazy circus aids or harms?


Project Willow wrote:Do you factor that into your activity on the subject?


It's an argument HMW makes all the time regarding what he calls WOO (Wonderment Occluding Objectivity).

I've seen plenty of criticism of Jeff Wells that focuses on his inclusion of the paranormal and claims of SRA and MK subjects as lessening the effectiveness of his (para)political message.

Conversely there are those who feel conspiracy and deep politics claims cloud various paranormal pursuits - and even within the "paranormal" arena there are those who feel bigfoot and cryptozoology weakens the import of talking about: Insert Para-Topic of Choice Here.

Even Jeff is critical of "conspiratainment".


UFOs & The Black Lodge – A Blue Rose Report Primer
by SMiles Lewis


UFOlogists don’t like to talk about bigfoot. Cryptozoologists looking for sasquatch don’t like talking about ghosts. Ghost hunters won’t talk about UFOs. And conspiracy researchers are constantly lamenting, and rightfully so, being linked to all of the above by the media as a discrediting tactic. It’s a fair criticism (for those not wishing to taint there own activist chocolate with those other fringers’ peanut butter.)

A corollary criticism often follows that television shows and movies with wacky paranormal conspiracy subjects generally condition the public to associate those topics and issues with so much silly entertainment. And again, I generally agree with that sentiment.

http://www.anomalymagazine.com/2007/12/ ... rt-primer/



What do you all think?
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby semper occultus » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:58 pm

well certainly UFO's to parapolitics ain't much of a stretch

as soon as you start doing any sort of reading/research you come to realise that para-normal/political shit just sort of..all links up - doesn't matter whether you actually want it to or not..it just does.

One of the premier para-political researchers whom I greatly respect - Robin Ramsey of Lobster has confronted exactly this issue in his articles & insists on the importance of including fringe topics on his agenda - although TBH I don't think I've actually ready anything about Bigfoot in Lobster ..
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2974
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby elfismiles » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:02 pm

True-nuff SO.

And it was researching UFOs that led me into Mind Kontrol research and parapolitics in general.

semper occultus wrote:well certainly UFO's to parapolitics ain't much of a stretch

as soon as you start doing any sort of reading/research you come to realise that para-normal/political shit just sort of..all links up - doesn't matter whether you actually want it to or not..it just does.

One of the premier para-political researchers whom I greatly respect - Robin Ramsey of Lobster has confronted exactly this issue in his articles & insists on the importance of including fringe topics on his agenda - although TBH I don't think I've actually ready anything about Bigfoot in Lobster ..
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Simulist » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:09 pm

Yes, I think bringing up paranormal subjects can detract from genuine political activism, but I think this also misses a critical point.

The critical point is that paranormal subjects have been used deliberately — and continue to be used deliberately — as a tool, a preferred means of discrediting pretty much anything propagandists want discredited.

So although the paranormal itself can be socially problematic, the critical point is that the biggest liars and criminals in the world know this, and use this conditioned response (and its inherent ability to make the eyes roll) as a tactic to cover up their crimes.

And that is why I posted this in the other thread about Jim Moseley and Karl Pflock:

Simulist wrote:
elfismiles wrote:
Project Willow wrote:No offense. Just simply cannot understand why you take that source or any of those links to be in any way credible.


Well, because I know and respect the two people involved.

[...]

I can certainly understand why someone might not consider Jim Moseley and Karl Pflock to be trust-worthy sources as Jim has perpetrated hoaxes and Pflock was former-CIA.

[...]

While Jim has a reputation for being silly and stirring up trouble, to me, he is an American treasure who has a sincere interest in the phenomenon and appreciates as I do both the crazy circus aspects of the ufo scene and the scientific import at the heart of the phenomenon.

Okay. I hate to admit this, but I will: I'm confused.

Jim Moseley has a "sincere interest in the phenomenon" [of UFOs], but has "perpetrated hoaxes"? How does that work, exactly? Doesn't the latter cancel out the sincerity of the former?

Whether Jim Moseley and the late Karl Pflock are (or were) deliberately aiding an effort to disinform I do not know, but to ask that question — especially given the "hoaxer" and "former-CIA" histories of these two men, respectively — the question itself does not seem an inappropriate one to me.

In fact, I think it's a pretty darned good question.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Elvis » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:53 pm

I voted "It ain't so simple."

If we're talking about research, one shouldn't just ignore or dismiss connections among different areas of inquiry. E.g. if Hugh Manatee Wins is correct about an army of spooks misleading us with words (I think they might do this to some degree), they might well be using those techniques to steer us away from occult shenanigans, UFO secrets and so on.

One thing that drew me into Jeff's blog posts is his ability to link subjects that might, at first, seem unconnected.

On the other hand, if one is in conversation with friends, family, & acquaintances, and trying to make a point about nuts & bolts 'deep politics', you can lose their attention fast by injecting a "woo" aspect. You have to be armed with some credible examples to make them go "hmmm" (or better, as a friend once said to me, "I hate it when this shit makes sense.")
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7432
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby elfismiles » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:56 pm

simulist wrote:Okay. I hate to admit this, but I will: I'm confused.

Jim Moseley has a "sincere interest in the phenomenon" [of UFOs], but has "perpetrated hoaxes"? How does that work, exactly? Doesn't the latter cancel out the sincerity of the former?


No, IMO Jim Moseley's having perpetrated a couple of hoaxes does not cancel out his sincerity and interest in the UFO phenomenon.

The two I am familiar with were covered in my interview with him as well as within his book (and undoubtedly elsewhere) but in a nutshell:

- Back in the late 1950s he and Gray Barker concocted the R. E. Straith letter to Adamski
http://www.google.com/search?q=straith+letter+adamski

- A few years earlier he faked a scorched earth UFO landing site in Peru
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mo ... er+landing

Yet all the while he has consistently published his and others ideas about the UFO phenomenon while also commenting upon the wacky antics of UFO believers and UFO debunkers.

Were those deceptive acts "good" - no clearly not. Were they particularly harmful or detrimental, perhaps, perhaps not. The Peruvian landing site hoax probably only got press coverage in the Peruvian tabloids of the day. He and Barker fessed up to the Straith letter but that didn't change the minds of the Contactee believers and followers of Adamski.

As for Karl Pflock, sadly, I never got to meet him and barely corresponded with him. While I never felt his take on Roswell (I admittedly never read his book on same) was correct I think he was an honest and sincere person who happened to work for the CIA - AMONG MANY OTHER JOBS:

[I'm sure it has been said here before but just because someone was in the CIA doesn't mean they are a disinfo agent.]


Karl Pflock, author, consultant, and UFO researcher, is the author of numerous works of fiction and nonfiction. He has written and ghostwritten several nonfiction books and has been a consulting senior editor for Arlington House Publishers, editor of Libertarian Review, a senior editor at the American Enterprise Institute, contributing editor to Reason, and science columnist for Eternity Science Fiction. His articles on UFOs have appeared in such journals as Fortean Times, Omni, the International UFO Reporter, The Anomalist, Fate, the MUFON UFO Journal, Cuadernos de Ufología (Spain), and the MUFON 1995 International UFO Symposium Proceedings, and he has made significant contributions to other U.S. and foreign publications. A popular speaker at UFO and anomalous phenomena gatherings, he was named 1998 Ufologist of the Year by the National UFO Conference.

Mr. Pflock's interest in UFOs is virtually lifelong, and his investigations have left no doubt in his mind UFOs are real. In the late 1960s and early 1970s he served as a member and chairman of the National Capital Area [investigations] Subcommittee of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), then the world's largest private UFO research organization. He also has carried out independent research on humanoid/UFO-occupant sightings, allegations of UFO-connected animal mutilations, and claims of contact with "ufonauts."

An Associate of both the Society for Scientific Exploration and the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, a Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) State Section Director, and a member of the Permanent Organizing Committee of the National UFO Conference, Mr. Pflock currently is pursuing retrospective research on the landmark Barney and Betty Hill experience (September 1961), the infamous Florida scoutmaster "saucer attack" case (August 1952; he contributed an article on this case to UFOs 1947-1997, edited by Hilary Evans and Dennis Stacy), and the granddaddy of all crashed flying saucer tales, the Aztec, New Mexico, hoax that spawned Frank Scully's 1950 bestseller Behind the Flying Saucers (see his "What's Really Behind the Flying Saucers?: A New Twist on Aztec," The Anomalist, Spring 2000). He also is collaborating with James W. Moseley, "notorious" editor of the ufology insider news-, gossip-, and humorzine "Saucer Smear," on Shockingly Close to the Truth! Moseley's ufological memoirs (forthcoming from Prometheus Books, 2002), and doing research for a book making a "down-to-earth" case for serious consideration of the extraterrestrial origin of some UFOs. He is Contributing Editor of and writes a monthly column for "Smear."

Mr. Pflock began investigating the now legendary Roswell, New Mexico, "crashed-saucer" incident in July 1992. In 1994, his "Roswell in Perspective," a book-length monograph presenting the interim results of his investigation, was published by the Fund for UFO Research. In June 2001, his definitive Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe will be published in the U.S. by Prometheus Books and, later in the year, in France by O.P. Editions.

Mr. Pflock has appeared frequently on radio and television, discussing his Roswell findings and his views on the overall UFO mystery and related subjects. He also has served as an advisor to the producers of "Unsolved Mysteries," "Sightings," and a Turner Network Television special on alleged UFO abductions, and has provided similar services for and appears in a Terra Nova Television home-video/television production for the Reader's Digest Association, seen on the Discovery and other channels in the U.S. and abroad.. He was prominently featured in a "Sightings" special on UFOs and alleged related government cover-ups, seen on the Science Fiction Channel.

Mr. Pflock, a member of the American Aviation Historical Society and an amateur astronomer, returned to full-time writing and independent research in 1992 after 11 years of public service, during which he was a deputy assistant secretary of defense, a senior staff member in the U.S. House of Representatives, and a strategic planning consultant to the U.S. Department of Energy.

As Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense (Deputy Director) for Operational Test and Evaluation (1985-89), Mr. Pflock guided development and implementation of Department of Defense policy governing weapons systems and equipment testing. He also managed congressional, media, and public affairs for the Operational Test and Evaluation office. In recognition of his contributions, he was awarded the Defense Outstanding Public Service Medal and the Defense Superior Achievement Award.

In the House of Representatives, Mr. Pflock was Special Assistant for Defense, Space, and Science and Technology to then-Congressman Ken Kramer (1983-85), a ranking member of the House Committee on Armed Services. Earlier (1981-83), he served then-Congressman Jack Kemp as a senior staff member of the House Republican Conference, directing legislative research and analysis support for all Republican members of the House.

As Senior Strategic Planner with BDM International (1989-92), Mr. Pflock led the contractor team providing comprehensive planning and technical support for development of the Department of Energy's nuclear weapons complex environmental restoration and waste management strategic plan and the department-wide plan for waste minimization. He also provided strategic planning and international market analysis services to the chief executive officer and senior management of Ford Motor Company and conducted strategic analyses for several leading aerospace firms.

A cum laude graduate of San José State University (BA, philosophy and political science, 1964), Mr. Pflock served in reserve components of the Marine Corps and Air Force (1960-66) and with the Central Intelligence Agency (1966-72). He and his wife Mary Martinek reside in Placitas, New Mexico.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/researchers/detail105.htm



Watch / Listen to these brief clips where Pflock discusses his take on the Aztec ufo crash hoax as well as the state of ufology in general. Maybe he's a disinfo agent not to be trusted but he sure sounds reasonable to me.

Karl Pflock on ufology
http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ology.html

Pflock on Greer, the Disclosure Project, and Exopolitics
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9032092527

Karl Pflock explains the Aztec UFO Hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLba0balMvE


Project Willow wrote:Tell me then, how is it possible to discern the scientific import from the crazy circus?
Whom do you think the crazy circus aids or harms?


Well, in much the same way that the CIA's Robertson Panel expressed concern that UFO reports might be used by a foreign power to overwhelm defense communications channels, it behooves researchers to know about and understand the belief systems surrounding UFO contactees, alleged alien abductees, ufo researchers and the public at large. Now, the Robertson Panel itself was a deception - if you understand it in the context of the ufo research that Battelle Memorial Institute was conducting which probably including simulating UFO waves and monitoring the public's reactions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_ ... dy_results

To me, part of the scientific import is understanding the crazy circus - but obviously that crazy circus has been at least partially the result of said CIA / Mil-Intel shenanigans.

Obviously the crazy circus aids the PTB (and perhaps the phenomenon itself) while harming those who get ridiculed because of the absurdity factor that surrounds the subject. But besides the absurdity factors instigated by Mil-Intel shenanigans, I'd argue that the phenomenon itself at least partially instigates the absurdity, and/or the human mind, when grappling with an archetypically resonant unknown, throws up absurd elements, much the same way they crop up within dreams.

Project Willow wrote:Do you factor that into your activity on the subject?


I sure try.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:04 pm

Ha, "UFO and the Black Lodge"...sounds like a page right out of the RI blog!

It is comical how Fortean/UFO/Xfile C2C junkies hate truthers/coverup researchers/anti NWO/para political/deep state researcher types and vice versa. As if 9/11 as a coverup is more "silly" than believing in Bigfoot. However, it doesnt take a David Icke to wonder if its the paranormal that dictates the para-political. The Nazis seem like they were at quite the apex of straddling both these things. Perhaps, the elite are not even aware of the level of manipulation.

Thats the problem with a lot of these conspiracy folks, they need confirmation bias to say "it was the Zionists", "it was the greys!" "it was the Masons/Vatican/Jesuits", or "CIA/Pentagon spooks".
Last edited by 8bitagent on Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12243
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Elvis » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:48 pm

8bitagent wrote:Fortean/UFO/Xfile C2C junkies hate truthers/coverup researchers/anti NWO/para political/deep state researcher types and vice versa



Hm, I hadn't thought that, but now that you mention I can see that it happens. The blinders of over-specialization?

I was always into such things, since I was a little kid when my grandmother loaned me her Frank Edwards books ("Flying Saucers Are Real" etc.)

Mainly, I just love mysteries (and solving them to the extent possible), and loathe injustice.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7432
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby nathan28 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:50 pm

8bitagent wrote:It is comical how Fortean/UFO/Xfile C2C junkies hate truthers/coverup researchers/anti NWO/para political/deep state researcher types and vice versa. As if 9/11 as a coverup is more "silly" than believing in Bigfoot.


Elvis wrote:Mainly, I just love mysteries (and solving them to the extent possible), and loathe injustice.


Wombaticus Rex wrote:Yeah, I come here to hang out in the lobby a lot. Really bugs me I've never been able to figure out what to actually do about the panoramic picture painted here. No clue.


nathan28 wrote:
barracuda wrote:I thought we had pretty much come to a consensus here that every president since Eisenhower actually was a secret satan-worshipping, baby eating, Illumin-nazi blood drinker, merely following a prescribed plan to bring about the apocalypse of the Chrstian eschaton. Sort of a prerequisite for the job.

Are we now abandoning that point of view, or endorsing it? I get confused sometimes trying to gauge the latest pulse.

Image


You forgot the part about crop circles and the Crowley-Parsons-Hubbard-von Braun connection.


As may be obvious I have conspiracy fatigue. In light of coming contamination of the entire eastern seaboard of North America, the rapidly approaching austerity measures in the First World, immigration laws rapidly creating Fortress USA, the gradual normalization of torture to a form of questioning, the gross whitewash of ad hoc political executions in the mass media, the possibility that it may become illegal to plug a computer into a wall without paying an Apple technician, Predator drones used to enforce utility shut-offs (yes I'm serious), etc., etc., on a scale of one to ten, I'd watch Orly Taitz screw Lyndon LaRouche in slow motion for fourteen consecutive hours to ensure that our only problem was Satanist presidents.
Last edited by nathan28 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
„MAN MUSS BEFUERCHTEN, DASS DAS GANZE IN GOTTES HAND IST"

THE JEERLEADER
User avatar
nathan28
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Project Willow » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:09 pm

Eflis wrote:Obviously the crazy circus aids the PTB (and perhaps the phenomenon itself) while harming those who get ridiculed because of the absurdity factor that surrounds the subject.


I've had my fill of ridicule, and I've had my fill of gamers and that's the category in which I'd place your two sources.

Why the sideshow here?
This reminds me of when Bryant published his book last year. In response to that a good percentage of the board went to work debunking DeCamp and dragging out and re-beating the corpse of Ted Gunderson. Few, if anyone, actually posted at length about what a profound work Bryant had done and its possible impacts. Now with Albarelli and others these subjects are making their way out of 'para' and into 'normal'. It's almost as if there were some kind of pull to keep them knee deep in woo.

What I always appreciated about Jeff was that he expressed his outrage on behalf of those affected by a particular topic, no matter how seemingly far out. Can't say the same about everyone who is interested in "these subjects". Attempting to discover a mythical giant hairy hominid is nowhere near equivalent to exposing the tax-funded torture of private citizens. Frankly, if I ever met a feeling-less "It's all just so fascinating" attitude up close and in person, I'd probably be tempted to deck the guy.

Sasquatch doesn't need the justice system, I do. There's your line of segregation.
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Simulist » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:30 pm

Project Willow wrote:
Eflis wrote:Obviously the crazy circus aids the PTB (and perhaps the phenomenon itself) while harming those who get ridiculed because of the absurdity factor that surrounds the subject.


I've had my fill of ridicule, and I've had my fill of gamers and that's the category in which I'd place your two sources.

Given what has already been disclosed about them, I see no reason to assign any credibility whatsoever to either of those two sources.

Project Willow wrote:Now with Albarelli and others these subjects are making their way out of 'para' and into 'normal'. It's almost as if there were some kind of pull to keep them knee deep in woo.

There probably is. In the past, such mainstream efforts have been very determined and calculated ones.

Project Willow wrote:Sasquatch doesn't need the justice system, I do. There's your line of segregation.

Right on.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby operator kos » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:56 pm

There are many intelligence operatives who are involved in occult organizations. Some of them are just in it for the networking, but I know for a fact that some of them take it quite seriously. So when you start pulling on pretty much any deep politics thread, you're going to come across some element of woo eventually.

That being said, I'll have a conversation touching upon both UFOs and 9/11 amongst conspiracy-minded friends, but if I'm trying to convince a member of the general public of some of this stuff, there's NO WAY I'm going to conflate topics like that. And I always start with the easiest to accept stuff first. Using the example of 9/11, it's a little more effective to open with "Hey, did you know that a bunch of U.S. military and intelligence people say that the Bush administration deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen?" rather than "OMG! Nano-thermite, NWO, remote-controlled planes!"
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Jeff » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:09 pm

Project Willow wrote:What I always appreciated about Jeff was that he expressed his outrage on behalf of those affected by a particular topic, no matter how seemingly far out. Can't say the same about everyone who is interested in "these subjects". Attempting to discover a mythical giant hairy hominid is nowhere near equivalent to exposing the tax-funded torture of private citizens. Frankly, if I ever met a feeling-less "It's all just so fascinating" attitude up close and in person, I'd probably be tempted to deck the guy.


RI exists because I looked and couldn't find a place that held the kind of informed conversations that interested me, on a cluster of subjects that had in common perhaps only their disparagement by the mainstream and their contamination by the Conspiracy Entertainment Complex. Everyone here needn't hold each aspect of RI in the same regard, but each aspect belongs here, as does the tension between them.

Sasquatch doesn't need the justice system, I do. There's your line of segregation.


Not the justice system, but maybe sasquatch needs a systematic.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:24 pm

elfismiles wrote:UFOs & The Black Lodge – A Blue Rose Report Primer
by SMiles Lewis


UFOlogists don’t like to talk about bigfoot. Cryptozoologists looking for sasquatch don’t like talking about ghosts. Ghost hunters won’t talk about UFOs. And conspiracy researchers are constantly lamenting, and rightfully so, being linked to all of the above by the media as a discrediting tactic. It’s a fair criticism (for those not wishing to taint there own activist chocolate with those other fringers’ peanut butter.)

What do you all think?


That your opening sentences serve the ideology of confusionism in a very obvious way, and that you should be profoundly embarrassed by the sloppiness of your thinking. If you're serious about "We are all Jose Padilla now," then no, you're not going to be reproducing the mystified "X-Files" mish-mash throwing in ghosts and Sasquatch and aliens drawing crop circles into discussions of parapolitics or of the non-conspiratorial tyranny that is perpetually on the rise around us. (Jeff doesn't do this, by the way. He writes on each topic knowledgably and as he feels about it.)

Someone serious about addressing the crises that the people, the civilization, the species face also does not acknowledge the enemy's categories, like "conspiracy researchers." Anyone who pretends to talk about historic, political and economic subjects but calls themselves a "conspiracy researcher" is probably interested in easy niche marketing, or more likely a member of the subcultural fandom that makes up the niche market.

Which is to say, have your fun diddling around with Sasquatch. Understand that I'm not saying an interest in Sasquatch discredits you, merely, as you ask, decrying the automatic conflation of it with "conspiracy" topics that the hegemonic ideology demands. I am expecting you not to serve that hegemonic ideology yourself. The conflation is the product of a culture that deeply hates and wishes to trivialize the truth of its own murderous lack of civilization. Sasquatch is of not of relevance to research about 9/11 or JFK. Anyone presenting Sasquatch as though it belongs in the same rubric is serving The Man.

------------

On edit: And without disparaging any of the subjects you list: Why the hell should someone who's worked to maybe actually know something about his chosen subject have to like talking about things that didn't interest him? The conflation is insidious.

I think research into parapolitics should be conflated with glorious bright public squares full of people holding hands in solidarity and refusing to move, and the works of Shakespeare and Mozart, not the dingy rec-room into which the obfuscationists wish to stuff it.

As there is no necessary connection either way, I'll pick the former!

I also think you should make this your sig-line:

No, IMO Jim Moseley's having perpetrated a couple of hoaxes does not cancel out his sincerity and interest in the UFO phenomenon.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15986
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

Postby Project Willow » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:11 pm

Jeff wrote:Not the justice system, but maybe sasquatch needs a systematic.


He must be suffering greatly, and I guess everyone has their priorities. I'll think I'll revisit the impulse behind one of my initial reactions in the earlier thread when I protested I do not belong here. Speaking of tensions, there is plainly an unavoidable one with being the subject of a subject. More and more every time I post about MC I feel I am participating in making a zoo animal out of myself, and that just standing here in this venue of speculation and counter-point I am involved in a kind of self discrediting exercise. Maybe discussion is best left to those whose only investment is the discussion.

On another note, welcome or not, Jack Riddler - :lovehearts:
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 55 guests