King Tut’s DNA without racist link

[seemslikeadream]

A DNA test confirms that the unidentified mummy from KV55 is a genetic match with Amenhotep III and thus must be his son Akhenaton, the likely father of Tutankhamun.


http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/king-tu ... -line.html





1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut

[stefano]

I can't not post this again, it took me like 20 minutes.
________________________

OK well I struggle with video but I put up with the bogroll ads on the Discovery channel site to watch the clip there, and I really can't see where they get those detailed STR values. The most you can see is some peaks on a graph with values ranging from 110 to 330, so the values in the article aren't there at all. I didn't take a screenshot cause every time I rewound it froze for a minute.

The clip on YouTube is rendered difficult to read by a superimposed text telling you what they want you to think (but you can see the graph I'm talking about):



If anyone can find something on either video that looks like the below:

These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11

...I suppose we can take the next step and plug them in to Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor, but at the moment I'm more inclined to call 'spice' and assume they made those numbers up.

[seemslikeadream]

King Tutankhamen's R1b Caucasian Origins

[seemslikeadream]

suppose we can take the next step and plug them in to Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor, but at the moment I'm more inclined to call 'spice' and assume they made those numbers up.

[seemslikeadream]

Re: Could Tutankhamen have been a Welshman?
by Cognito » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:36 pm

This revelation is fascinating. King Tut is definitely R1b as the provided haplotype predicting software demonstrates with a probability of 99.9% based on the STR values represented. Although I entered the data into the software it is obvious to anyone with a background in genetics that Tut is a strong R1b match just by looking at the 17 markers presented.

My assumption: The damage that Zahi does by trying to manipulate information to meet his own ends is incalculable. Keeping everyone in the dark since data does not appear to meet a pre-established paradigm is not science. Although King Tut might be R1b, that doesn't mean he is "Caucasian" or "White" as opposed to anything else since R1b is "mainly found in Western Europe, Central Africa and Southwest Asia". For example, there is a high level of R1b in Cameroon and they certainly aren't white. See:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA)
2. http://www.genebase.com/article/Y-DNA_HAPLOGROUP_R1b.
3. http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_h ... ml#1200BCE

Although there is a significant R1b presence in Africa, the information displayed doesn't necessarily take Tut's genetics beyond the M343 (R1b) defining subclade (see #3 above). If Zahi would relinquish his stranglehold on information, a comprehensive analysis could be performed on Tut (with more than twice as many markers reported), and we could pinpoint where in Africa or elsewhere his genetics originated with a high degree of certainty. There are other royal mummies who could also be tested and it would be a great idea to do so.

WARNING!! Finding that Tut is R1b does NOT establish his "race" or skin colour! More than likely, his "subclade" will be found to originate from ... Egypt.

There, there, Zahi. There's nothing and/or nobody to be afraid of except yourself!
Lux sit

Cognito

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Re: Could Tutankhamen have been a Welshman?
by Ishtar » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:46 pm

Thanks, Cogs! I knew you'd make sense of it all!

I'm still quite keen on my latest tweet "Could Akhenaten have been an Irishman?" ... but it was only really to wind up Zahi's devotees on Twitter. Feeling pretty mischevious today!

On a more serious note, author Jhenah Telyndru who specialises in Celtic history has made this very interesting comment on our Facebook page, which gives us another perspective.

Fascinating! Tut was born in 1341 BC, which is in alignment with the beginning of the Urnfield culture -- the predecessor of the Hallstatt culture, the first peoples identified as "Celts." We know the Galatians were Celts living in Anatolia beginning around the 3rd century BCE ... perhaps they were in the Middle East longer than we think?
I came to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and to see if I could not learn what it had to teach and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. Henry David Thoreau

Ishtar

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Re: Could Tutankhamen have been a Welshman?
by Cognito » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:00 pm

We know the Galatians were Celts living in Anatolia beginning around the 3rd century BCE ... perhaps they were in the Middle East longer than we think?

The Galatians originated from Gaul in historic times and their migration/invasion into Central Anatolia is well-documented by the Romans and Greeks. As is typical, they made a mess of things wherever they went.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_inv ... he_Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia



Gauls in Central Turkey. Go figure!
Lux sit

Cognito

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Re: Could Tutankhamen have been a Welshman?
by Mike Williams » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:04 am

The Galatian Celts would be far too late to account for Tutankhamun (1000 years too late) but Jhenah is right that there was a lot of movement around the early Bronze Age and into the Urnfield period. A lot of these journeys were for what we might now call trade although they were likely to have had a very spiritual focus. Much of what was obtained was noticeably exotic (gold, jade, jet, amber) and was only used in ceremony. So we should expect discrete visits rather than a mercantile network.

There is nothing to suggest any link between Western Europe and Egypt in the Bronze Age, although this does not rule it out, of course. However, if we are envisaging a situation where people from (say) Wales became Egyptian rulers, we might expect there to have been a lot of evidence for interaction over a long period. None is obvious although this maybe because it is not expected and therefore nobody is looking for it. We know that some people, like the Amesbury Archer, made very long journeys so the distance would not have been insurmountable.

It may be that Hawass is withholding the information because he finds it suspect and wants to rule out contamination (did a Welsh person do the tests – that sort of thing). He needs to be sure before he releases a bombshell like this but, once he has that certainty, he owes it to us all to disseminate it.

It will be fascinating to see how this plays out and, if Tutankhamun does turn out to be Welsh, I for one will be very happy. He might even have been a Williams: Tutankhamun Williams does have a definite ring to it.
Author of Follow the Shaman’s Call: An Ancient Path for Modern Lives and Prehistoric Belief: Shamans, Trance and the Afterlife. http://www.PrehistoricShamanism.com.

Mike Williams

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Re: Could Tutankhamen have been a Welshman?
by stephjn » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:18 pm

From another site discussing this subject, is anyone familiar with the work of Ralph Ellis who apparently has written about the idea that "the British and the Irish - were potentially interacting with the Egyptians long before any of us may have imagined"? Also " the legends of Scotia, who gives her name to Scotland, indicate Egyptian presence in the Isles and there have been Egyptian archaeological discoveries in Ireland." ????.

[Iamwhomiam]

Jeez, you do a little research and come back to find the thread locked! Well, here's what I wanted to post there, and I'm not about to engage in an argument about racism, other to say I don't think racist thinking motivated anyone's posts. Perhaps I'm naive.

Fish, you are much better with words than I and with regard to Anglo-centric racism you state your case well, but you, I believe, are wrong. Quite the opposite from your conclusion is perhaps closer to the truth. That is, the Egyptians founded much of what we today consider our Anglo populations and not the other way around.

Some time ago while visiting with my daughter I caught some of the television show "The Tudors" and was quite taken by how well its production was. I also caught a bit of the last episode. I wanted to learn a bit more about "Bloody Mary" and the interconnected royal bloodlines and decided to review what that unimpeachable online source of all, Wikipedia, had offered on this matter. Soon, I came upon the legendary Scota.

To my surprise, there were two Scotas, both of whom had been daughters of Pharaohs. But these Pharaohs lived 1000 years apart, the more recent from 350 bce, the first of the last dynasty and the other being utterly unknown from any records aside from the Lebor Gabála Érenn or The Book of Invasions (or) Conquests. To me the earlier Scota would be the better fit for this topic, though the later Scota would better fit the timeline of the dated Egyptian ships found buried in the mud on the banks Humber River, near North Ferriby, quite away inland from the coast of England. (Hmm,,, Arthur's from around here, wasn't he? Perhaps he was Egyptian?)

I have never before heard any mention of Scota being a sister of Tutankhamun or if you prefer, Tutankhamen. Never have I come across this being referenced anywhere throughout my many years of Egyptian studies or various mythologies. (I realize you did not suggest this)

Wiki mentions too, that the earlier Scota, the Pharaoh's daughter married Niul, a Babylonian scholar of languages, whose father Fenius Farsaid was King of Scythia, after of course, fleeing there after the collapse of Nimrod's Tower. The Book of Conquests reports him to have been one of the 72 Chieftans who built the Tower, so it's no wonder he skipped town afterward. Scota and Niul's son Góedel Glas is from whom we derive the word and language of Gaelic.

Supposedly, Fenius created no only the Gaelic language and Ogham, but Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages after studying the mix of those being spoken after the Tower's collapse.

The other, more recent Scota was married to Míl Espáine who traveled from Spain after his death with her eight sons, and nine of Mil's uncle Íth's sons who defeated the Tuatha De Dannan and ruled Ireland. While a warrior in Spain, Míl may have been Scythian or Egyptian, two lands in which he fought battles. But who really knows what is true and what is merely myth?

Back to Ankhenatan. In every way Ankhenaten was unique. He redirected their ancient practice of polythesim to monotheism; changed their art to reflect realism from symbolism. Some have conjectured him to be incapable of bearing children due to being hermaphroditic, but recent DNA tests proved Tut to be his son. How this was possible, I have no idea, for Ankhenaten's body has never been found or if it has, it has not yet been identified.

It is believed that Ankhenaten suffered from a cleft palate as did Tut. So much inbreeding! What people do to hold on to power! With centuries of animal husbandry behind them, you'd think they would have known better. I don't think he was Nubian or from Cush. I think he was Moses.

MOSES AND AKHENATEN

One And The Same Person

First Montheist

Akhenaten is the most mysterious and interesting of all the ancient Egyptian pharaohs. He created a revolution in religion, philosophy, and art that resulted in the introduction of the first monotheistic form of worship known in history. Sigmund Freud, father of psychoanalysis, was the first to suggest a connection between Moses and Akhenaten. In his last book, Moses and Monotheism, published in 1939, Freud argued that the biblical Moses was an official in the court of Akhenaten, and an adherent of the Aten religion. After the death of Akhenaten, Freud's theory goes, Moses selected the Israelite tribe living east of the Nile Delta to be his chosen people, took them out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus, and passed on to them the tenets of Akhenaten's religion. When modern archaeologists came across the strangely-drawn figure of Akhenaten in the ruins of Tell el-Amarna in the middle of the 19th century, they were not sure what to make of him. Some thought he was a woman disguised as a king. By the early years of the 20th century when the city of Amarna had been excavated and more became known about him and his family, Akhenaten became a focus of interest for Egyptologists, who saw him as a visionary humanitarian as well as the first monotheist.

In my attempt to pursue Freud's theory through the examination of recent archaeological findings, I came to the conclusion that Moses was Akhenaten himself. The son of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye (daughter of Yuya, whom I have identified as Joseph the patriarch), Akhenaten had an Egyptian father and an Israelite mother. Yuya had been appointed by Tuthmosis IV to be the Master of the King's Horses and Deputy of the Royal Chariotry. On coming to the throne, and according to Egyptian customs, Amenhotep III married his sister Sitamun, who was just a child of three years at the time. However, in his Year 2, Amenhotep decided to also marry Yuya's daughter Tiye, the girl whom he loved, and made her, rather than Sitamun, his Great Royal Wife, his queen. (According to Egyptian customs the king could marry as many women as he desired, however the queen, whose children would follow him on the throne, had to be his sister, the heiress.) As a wedding present, Amenhotep presented Tiye with the frontier fortress of Zarw, in the area of modern Kantara in north Sinai, the capital of the Land of Goshen, mentioned by the Bible as the area where the Israelites dwelled in Egypt. Here he built a summer palace for her. To commemorate his marriage with Tiye, the king issued a large scarab and sent copies of it to foreign kings and princes.

The Birth of Moses

Amenhotep, who was later known as Akhenaten and Moses, was born in Year 12 of his father Amenhotep III, 1394 BC, in the summer royal palace in the border city of Zarw in northern Sinai. Zarw, modern Kantara East, was the center of the land of Goshen where the Israelites dwelt, and in the same location where the biblical Moses was born. But contrary to the biblical account, Moses was born inside the royal palace. His mother Queen Tiye had an elder son, Tuthmosis, who died a short time before Amenhotep's birth. Tuthmosis had been educated and trained at the royal residence in Memphis before he mysteriously disappeared—believed to have been kidnapped and assassinated by the Amun priests. Fearing for his safety, Tiye sent her son, the infant Amenhotep, by water to the safekeeping of her father's Israelite family outside the walls of Zarw. (Which was the origin of the biblical baby-in-the-bulrushes story.)

The reason for the priests' hostility to the young prince was the fact that Tiye, his mother, an Israelite, was not the legitimate heiress to the throne. She couldn't therefore be accepted as a consort for the state god Amun. If Tiye's son acceded to the throne, this would be regarded as forming a new dynasty of non-Amunite kings over Egypt. During his early years, his mother kept Amenhotep away from both the royal residences at Memphis and Thebes. He spent his childhood at the border city of Zarw, nursed by the wife of the queen's younger brother, General Aye. Later, Amenhotep was moved to Heliopolis, north of Cairo, to receive his education under the supervision of Anen, the priest of Ra, who was the elder brother of Queen Tiye.

Young Amenhotep first appeared at the capital city of Thebes when he reached the age of sixteen. There he met Nefertiti, his half-sister, daughter of Sitamun, and fell in love with her. Tiye, his mother, encouraged this relationship, realizing that his marriage to Nefertiti, the heiress, was the only way he could gain the right to follow his father on the throne.

Akhenaten Co-Regent

Following his marriage to Nefertiti, Amenhotep III decided to make Amenhotep his co-regent which upset the priests of Amun. The conflict between Amenhotep III and the priests had started sixteen years earlier as a result of his marriage to Tiye, an Israelite, daughter of Yuya and Tuya. During his reign, Nefertiti was active in supporting her husband, Amenhotep, and was more prominently seen at official occasions as well as on all monuments. However, the climate of hostility that surrounded Amenhotep at the time of his birth surfaced again after his appointment as co-regent. On joining his father on the throne Amenhotep became Amenhotep IV. The Amun priesthood opposed this appointment, and openly challenged Amenhotep III's decision.

When the priests of Amun objected to his appointment, the young co-regent responded by building temples to his new God, Aten. He built three temples for Aten: one at the back end of the Karnak complex, another at Luxor near the Nile bank, and the third at Memphis. Amenhotep lV snubbed the Amun priests by not inviting them to any of the festivities in the early part of his co-regency and, in his fourth year, when he celebrated his sed festival jubilee, he banned all deities but his own God from the occasion. Twelve months later he made a further break with tradition by changing his name to Akhenaten in honor of his new deity. To the resentful Egyptian establishment, Aten was seen as a challenger who would replace the powerful State god, Amun, not falling under his domination. In the tense climate that prevailed, Tiye arranged a compromise by persuading her son to leave Thebes and establish a new capital at Amarna in Middle Egypt, on the east bank of the Nile.

A New City for Aten

The situation calmed down following Akhenaten's departure, while Amenhotep III ruled alone in Thebes. For the site of his new city at Amarna, Akhenaten chose a land that belonged to no god or goddess. The building started in his Year 4 and ended in Year 8; however he and his family moved from Thebes to Amarna in Year 6. At that point of land, the cliffs of the high desert receded from the river, leaving a great semi-circle about eight miles long and three miles broad. Here Akhenaten built his new capital, Akhetaten, the Horizon of Aten, where he and his followers would be free to worship their God. Huge boundary stelae, marking the limits of the city and recording the story of its foundation, were carved in the surrounding cliffs. Akhetaten was a capital city possessed of both dignity and architectural harmony. Its main streets ran parallel to the Nile with the most important of them, the King's Way, connecting the city's most prominent buildings, including the King's House, where Akhenaten and his family had their private residence. To the south of the house was the king's private temple to Aten.

Military Coup

Following the death of his father, Amenhotep III, in Akhenaten's Year 12, he organized a great celebration at Amarna for foreign princes bearing tribute because of his assumption to sole rule. Akhenaten and Nefertiti appeared to receive the tribute of foreign missions coming from Syria, Palestine, Nubia, and the Mediterranean islands, who offered them their gifts. It was at that time the king decided to abolish the worship of all gods in Egypt—except Aten.

Akhenaten gave orders to his troops, instructing them to close all the temples, confiscate their estates, and sack the priests, leaving only Aten's temples throughout the country. Units were dispatched to excise the names of the ancient gods wherever they were found written or engraved, a course that can only have created mounting new opposition to his already rejected authority. This persecution, which entailed the closing of the temples, the confiscation of property, the dispatch of artisans who hacked out the names of the deities from inscriptions, the banishment of the clergy, and the excommunication of Amun's name, was supervised by the army. Each time a squad of workmen entered a temple or tomb to destroy the name of Amun, it was supported by a squad of soldiers who came to see that the royal decree was carried out without opposition.

The persecution of the old gods, however, proved to be hateful to the majority of Egyptians, including the members of the army. Ultimately, the harshness of the persecution had a certain reaction upon the soldiers who, themselves, had been raised in the old beliefs. After all, the officers and soldiers themselves believed in the same gods whose images the king ordered them to destroy; they worshipped in the very temples that they were ordered to close. A conflict arose between the king and his army. Horemheb, Pa-Ramses, and Seti planned a military coup against the king, and ordered their troops from the north and south to move toward Amarna. When the army and chariots came face to face at Amarna's borders, Aye advised the king to abdicate the throne to his son, Tutankhaten, in order to save the dynasty and avoid a wholesale defection and perhaps even a civil war. Akhenaten agreed to abdicate and left Amarna with Pa-Nehesy, the high priest of Aten, and a few of his followers, to live in exile in the area of Sarabit El-Khadem in southern Sinai. When Tutankhaten took the throne, he changed his name to Tutankhamun to appease the priesthood of the powerful State god Amun. He did not, however, renounce the Atenist religion of his father.

Back From Exile

The root of the name Moses is in the Egyptian word Mos which means "child." But this word also had a wider legal meaning—"the rightful son and heir." As it was punishable by death to mention Akhenaten's name after his banishment, a code name was established through which his followers could refer to him. Therefore they called him Mos, the son, to indicate that he was the legitimate son of Amenhotep III and the rightful heir to his father's throne. The ancient Egyptian language had no written vowels, although the vowels were pronounced. The written word meaning a child or son consisted of two consonants, m and s, It is therefore easy to see that the Hebrew word, Moses, was derived from the Egyptian, Mos. The final 's' of Moses derives from the Greek translation of the biblical name.

Following his abdication, Akhenaten/Moses lived with his followers in exile in southern Sinai for about twenty-five years, during the reigns of Tutankhamun, Aye, and Horemheb. Here, Akhenaten/Moses lived among the Shasu (Midianites) Bedouins with whom he formed an alliance. On hearing of Horemheb's death, Akhenaten/Moses decided to leave his exile in Sinai and come back to Egypt, in order to reclaim his throne.

In his rough Bedouin clothes, Akhenaten/Moses arrived with his allies at General Pa-Ramses' residence in the border city of Zarw, his birthplace, which had now been turned into a prison for his followers. Pa-Ramses, by now an old man, was making arrangements for his coronation and getting ready to become the first ruler of a new 19th Ramesside dynasty when he was informed of Akhenaten/Moses arrival.

Akhenaten/Moses challenged Pa-Ramses' right to the throne. The general, taken by surprise, decided to call a meeting of the wise men of Egypt to decide between them. At the gathering, Akhenaten/Moses produced his scepter of royal power, which he had taken with him to exile, and performed secret rituals that only the king could have had knowledge of. Once they saw the scepter of royal authority and Akhenaten/Moses' performance of the rituals, the wise men fell down in adoration in front of him and declared him to be the legitimate king of Egypt. Pa-Ramses, however, who was in control of the army, used his power to frustrate the verdict of the priests and elders and retained the right to rule by force—a coup d'etat.

General Pa-Ramses ascended to the Egyptain throne as Ramses I, the first Pharoah of the 19th dynasty. Left with no choice but to flee from Egypt with his followers—the Israelites and Egyptians who embraced the Atenist faith—Akhenaten/Moses began the Exodus toward the Sinai via the marshy area to the south of Zarw and north of Lake Temsah, as this watery route would hinder the pursuit of Egyptian chariots. After a time Akhenaten/Moses then marched north toward Gaza and attempted to storm the city with his Shasu allies. Seti I, son of Ramses, led an army against Akhenaten/Moses, the Israelites, and the Shasu, and defeated them, with great slaughter, at many locations on the Horus Road as well as central Sinai.

It is likely that Akhenaten/Moses was killed by Seti I himself in the course of these military operations.

Ahmed Osman
Historian, lecturer, researcher and author, Ahmed Osman is a British Egyptologist born in Cairo

His four in-depth books clarifying the history of the Bible and Egypt are: Stranger in the Valley of the Kings (1987) - Moses: Pharaoh of Egypt (1990) - The House of the Messiah (1992) - Out of Egypt (1998)

http://dwij.org/forum/amarna/10_moses_akhenaten.htm

Oh, I almost forgot... Now their claiming American Indians had a close relationship with Lucifer. The stuff they must be smokin', phew. More here.

The JAMA DNA study on Tut & his 15 relatives. Also here.

More on Ankhenaten here.

Ahmed Osmans books here.

More on Scota here. Follow the links embedded in the various characters names.

[seemslikeadream]

Iamwhomiam
thank you so much for that post, excellent stuff, much appreciated


argument about racism?


that surely was not my intention

[beeline]

Iamwhomiam
thank you so much for that post, excellent stuff, much appreciated


argument about racism?


that surely was not my intention

+1

[Iamwhomiam]

Didn't mean you, SLAD. It was a blanket statement, made after reviewing the posts I missed to the now locked thread while writing that above. Though, I expect Breezy may drop by to either condemn Osman's view or praise it, knowing clearly his bias.

I can't view videos, but I'm familiar with the KV55 mummy. He may well be related to Tut, but I don't believe there is any way through DNA to discern whether it is Ankhenaten. But paternity testing does help identify by high probabiliy a child's father, so I really don't know. Perhaps one of our resident RI scientist's can answer this. Hugo Farnsworth! Paging Dr. Hugo Farnsworth! Slomo?

Hmm... Beeline, what's up with the +1?

[TVC15]

Wouldn't it be interesting if all the scrolls Carter stole from Tut's tomb were to suddenly resurface?

[stefano]

Thanks, IamwhoIam, very interesting.

SLAD, I meant to say that I can't see how people get the STR values on the list from the Discovery video. The YouTube clip you post upthread doesn't even try - it gives the same list as in the other article, then goes on about R1b and what that means. I'm not convinced the video actually gives those numbers.

Here's a screenshot that shows a lot of numbers. Can you read any?


Here's one that I think shows they're lying. For 393, the value on the screen is 9, on their list it's 13.

[Stephen Morgan]

Fish, you are much better with words than I and with regard to Anglo-centric racism you state your case well, but you, I believe, are wrong. Quite the opposite from your conclusion is perhaps closer to the truth. That is, the Egyptians founded much of what we today consider our Anglo populations and not the other way around.

Could be. An early centre of dense population, could well lead to the diffusion of population to Europe.

To my surprise, there were two Scotas, both of whom had been daughters of Pharaohs. But these Pharaohs lived 1000 years apart, the more recent from 350 bce, the first of the last dynasty and the other being utterly unknown from any records aside from the Lebor Gabála Érenn or The Book of Invasions (or) Conquests. To me the earlier Scota would be the better fit for this topic, though the later Scota would better fit the timeline of the dated Egyptian ships found buried in the mud on the banks Humber River, near North Ferriby, quite away inland from the coast of England. (Hmm,,, Arthur's from around here, wasn't he? Perhaps he was Egyptian?)

Dating in pre-literate societies is always shaky. I also think the Ferriby boats are almost certainly older than claimed, based on the Egyptian boats dug up from the Pyramid. And it's the Book of the Conquests OF IRELAND. The Humber isn't inland at all, it's a big estuary where the Ouse and the Trent flow into the sea, it was the main sea route into England for Saxons and later Vikings, which is why Deor was one of the earliest Saxon (actually Anglian) kingdoms, why Swein was crowned at Gainsborough, why Cnut's tide-turning attempt was also at Gainsborough, why the viking fleet of 1086 hid out on the Isle of Axholme, why Hardrada's army of 1066 first attacked York, and so on. Arthur, by different theories, may have been from the lowlands of Scotland, from the West Country, from Powys, etc.. One theory puts two of his twelves battles in Lincolnshire on the south bank of the Humber, though.

I have never before heard any mention of Scota being a sister of Tutankhamun or if you prefer, Tutankhamen. Never have I come across this being referenced anywhere throughout my many years of Egyptian studies or various mythologies. (I realize you did not suggest this)

Book: Kingdom of the Ark.

Back to Ankhenatan. In every way Ankhenaten was unique. He redirected their ancient practice of polythesim to monotheism;

No. He wanted Aten worshipped but the old tales of the closing of the temples of the other gods are now disbelieved. He set up his own city where Aten could be worshiped, Akhetatan, now Armarna. And he wanted to continue the worship of the royal gods, Isis, Horus and Osiris.

It is believed that Ankhenaten suffered from a cleft palate as did Tut. So much inbreeding! What people do to hold on to power! With centuries of animal husbandry behind them, you'd think they would have known better. I don't think he was Nubian or from Cush. I think he was Moses.

Animal husbandry is based on inbreeding to emphasise certain characteristics.

[Stephen Morgan]

Anyone see the latest FT? Chinaman found in graveyard of second century Roman agricultural site.

A DNA test confirms that the unidentified mummy from KV55 is a genetic match with Amenhotep III and thus must be his son Akhenaton, the likely father of Tutankhamun.

Assuming that corpse is really the former earthly tomb of the spirit known as Amunhotep 3.

Wouldn't it be interesting if all the scrolls Carter stole from Tut's tomb were to suddenly resurface?

Probably floating about the black market somewhere.

[Iamwhomiam]

Well, Steven Morgan, thank you for directing me to the Kingdom of the Ark, but as you wish to take issue with my comments, perhaps you should edit the page where I sourced my information, which says:

“Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland) is the Middle Irish title of a loose collection of poems and prose narratives recounting the mythical origins and history of the Irish race from the creation of the world down to the Middle Ages.”
<snip>
“It is usually known in English as The Book of Invasions or The Book of Conquests, and in Modern Irish as Leabhar Gabhála Éireann or Leabhar Gabhála na hÉireann.”

So I suppose it's truest translation of the correct title is "The Book of the Taking of Ireland."

And as far as my comment about the location of North Ferriby goes, I stand by it. I live nearly 140 miles up the Hudson River which is the upper limit of its estuary, the area of the furthest reach north of salt water from the Atlantic Ocean. An estuary is defined not by its proximity to its salt water source, but by the salt water's furthest reach into a river's fresh water, beyond which all water is fresh water. The map I sourced my comment from has no scale to it and I'm really not well versed in England's geography. North Ferriby appears on it to be quite away inland from the Sea.

Back to Ankhenatan. In every way Ankhenaten was unique. He redirected their ancient practice of polythesim to monotheism;

No. He wanted Aten worshipped but the old tales of the closing of the temples of the other gods are now disbelieved.
<snip>
And he wanted to continue the worship of the royal gods, Isis, Horus and Osiris.

Perhaps, Steven, you could provide links to this new to me information? Disbelieved by whom? Is Ankhenaten no longer believed to be the so-called Heretic King? I've never read that he wanted to continue the worship of the Trinity, but placed the worship of the Aten (the Sun) above all.

The full title of Akhenaten's god was "The Rahorus who rejoices in the horizon, in his/her Name of the Light which is seen in the sun disc."

And lastly, animal husbandry through inbreeding alone will cause a line's eventual collapse through mutation or abnormal development. Outcrossing assures continuation of reinforces desirable traits. The Royal family's should have been aware of this.

[Stephen Morgan]

Well, Steven Morgan, thank you for directing me to the Kingdom of the Ark, but as you wish to take issue with my comments, perhaps you should edit the page where I sourced my information, which says:

“Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland) is the Middle Irish title of a loose collection of poems and prose narratives recounting the mythical origins and history of the Irish race from the creation of the world down to the Middle Ages.”
<snip>
“It is usually known in English as The Book of Invasions or The Book of Conquests, and in Modern Irish as Leabhar Gabhála Éireann or Leabhar Gabhála na hÉireann.”

So I suppose it's truest translation of the correct title is "The Book of the Taking of Ireland."

It would still have to Takings. I've read it, it's all cyclical. Fir Bolgs, Tuatha de Danaan, so forth, all taking it in turns to take Ireland.

And as far as my comment about the location of North Ferriby goes, I stand by it. I live nearly 140 miles up the Hudson River which is the upper limit of its estuary, the area of the furthest reach north of salt water from the Atlantic Ocean. An estuary is defined not by its proximity to its salt water source, but by the salt water's furthest reach into a river's fresh water, beyond which all water is fresh water. The map I sourced my comment from has no scale to it and I'm really not well versed in England's geography. North Ferriby appears on it to be quite away inland from the Sea.

Google maps says it's 35.8 miles by road from North Ferriby to Spurn Head, which is the sticky out bit of Holderness there. Less by sea. Notice it's only a couple of miles from Hull, which is the nation's biggest container port today, I believe. So I continue to day it's not inland at all, it's at a natural point for foreign traffic to meet up with internal trade.

Back to Ankhenatan. In every way Ankhenaten was unique. He redirected their ancient practice of polythesim to monotheism;

No. He wanted Aten worshipped but the old tales of the closing of the temples of the other gods are now disbelieved.
<snip>
And he wanted to continue the worship of the royal gods, Isis, Horus and Osiris.

Perhaps, Steven, you could provide links to this new to me information? Disbelieved by whom? Is Ankhenaten no longer believed to be the so-called Heretic King? I've never read that he wanted to continue the worship of the Trinity, but placed the worship of the Aten (the Sun) above all.

Aten replaced the old supreme god Amun-Ra, formerly Amun. And he was a tolerant heretic. He continued to demand worship of himself as Horus, his dad as Osiris and his chief woman as Isis, which was a bit of a twist. Ra even gets a mention on the boundary stella at Akhetaten, described as "my father".

You can't have any references because I'm too lazy to come up with any.

The full title of Akhenaten's god was "The Rahorus who rejoices in the horizon, in his/her Name of the Light which is seen in the sun disc."

And lastly, animal husbandry through inbreeding alone will cause a line's eventual collapse through mutation or abnormal development. Outcrossing assures continuation of reinforces desirable traits. The Royal family's should have been aware of this.

That's why so many products of animals husbandry have inherited diseases, why farm animals are stupider than their wild cousins and why domesticated plants are generally more prone to disease, as well, as more productive, than their ancestors.