OKC Bombing Whistle Blowers

by **glooperoo** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:47 pm

I just <a href="http://nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=3858">came across</a> this last night and I'm surprised I haven't seen <a href="http://www.ktok.com/cc-common/feeds/view.php?feed_id=135&feed=/local.html&instance=1&article_id=25795">this story</a> make a bigger splash: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Newspaper Claims Former DOJ Officials Confirm Bombing Coverup Thursday, July 14, 2005 at 6:03pm The McCurtain Daily Gazette today reports several former powerful and high ranking Justice department officials confirm there was a coverup of the investigation to the Oklahoma City bombing. By Jerry Bohnen Ten years after the Oklahoma City bombing, a published report says several former high ranking Department of Justice officials who want to remain anonymous claim there was a coverup of the attack which killed 168 persons. The story is carried by the McCurtain Daily Gazette in Idabel whose reporter J-D Cash has spent a decade investigating the bombing and its ties to Elohim City, a religious and white separatist compound in eastern Oklahoma. "We were put into contact with some very, very high level former Department of Justice officials who have seen about as much of this coverup of the Oklahoma City bombing they can stomach," said Cash in an interview with KTOK News. He explained the once powerful officials in the DOJ believe the story is coming out because of the lawsuit and freedom of information fight between Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue and the FBI. Trentadue seeks the bombing records to show his brother Kenneth, an inmate in the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center in the summer of 1995 was beaten to death as federal agents interrogated him about the bombing. The attorney believes his brother closely fit the description of a suspect who had ties to bomber Tim McVeigh. The former law officers say the story will show the government was aware of German national Andreas Strassmeier who allegedly help plan the bombing while he lived at Elohim City. "He was providing information to the German government. The Justice department would not allow the FBI to do the type of investigation of Elohim before the bombing they felt like they should," added Cash. The officials also say the bombing occurred because the sting was 'bungled' by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. <hr></blockquote> And here's the <a href="http://www.mccurtain.com/articles/2005/07/14/top_story/top001.txt">McCurtain Daily Gazette's</a> story on this (They have an <a href="http://www.mccurtain.com/okc_bombing/">ongoing series</a> on the topic.) <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Elohim City connections Copyright 2005, McCurtain Daily Gazette By J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles, (U.S.M.C. retired) Speaking on the condition that their names not be revealed, a group of former Department of Justice (DOJ) officials have told this newspaper that the FBI never seriously investigated Tim McVeigh’s connections to a right-wing paramilitary training camp. Neither, they say, were McVeigh’s ties to a notorious bank robbery gang operating in the Midwest investigated. Further, FBI agents interested in working the case were thwarted by Department of Justice attorneys and by other FBI officials. Even spoken with an identity hidden because of fears of retribution, the explosive statements are especially surprising, coming as they do on the heels of a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision that journalists may be jailed if they refuse to reveal sources in federal cases. That decision has reportedly already had a chilling effect on some federal whistleblowers. In addition to the former officials’ personal insights into the case, however, the newspaper has been able to corroborate much of what they have said about problems with the OKBOMB investigation with other sources and documents pertaining to the bombing of the A.P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995. Documents from the FBI and other federal agencies involved in the OKBOMB case support their claims that the FBI failed to arrest all the persons involved and that political considerations played a role in deliberately limiting the investigation to Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier – even though the agencies assured bombing victims and the public that all persons involved would be brought to justice. One former high-ranking member of the DOJ said the investigation began with five very experienced FBI commanders appointed by former director Louis Freeh to investigate the bombing. However, the former official explained that after each of those men left the case, a less experienced agent took over the OKBOMB investigation, and the probe into other suspects suddenly ground to a halt. One person assigned to the bombing investigation said, “I was inside the FBI office when Freeh showed up. There was a loud shouting match with our SAC.[.b] “It wasn’t long after that Bob Ricks announced he was retiring and taking a job with the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety. He left the investigation and by the time the case was transferred to Denver, the prosecutors were telling the field agents what evidence to bring t” Prosecutors wanted only select evidence, he indicated. “I caught hell for sending in evidence that people at Elohim City were involved. They (prosecutors in Denver) said, ‘Never send us anything that points to anyone other than McVeigh and Nichols.’” Each of those persons who contributed to this story has continued to follow media reports about the bombing for over a decade. They have come forward – albeit without attribution – to express concerns and to provide details of a government cover-up of a failed sting operation at Elohim City – a sting operation, each agrees, that may have been bungled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). “I was close to the bombing case immediately,” one former official told the Gazette, “and over time it became clear the White House had taken the investigation away from the FBI and handed it over to officials at the Department of Justice. “And that’s not how it works. The FBI should investigate and then turn the evidence over to them to decide if they want to proceed with a prosecution. That didn’t happen in this case. In this case, after the original commanders left the case, the DOJ began calling the shots – telling field agents what they could investigate and what they couldn’t.” Several law enforcement sources had previously indicated to this newspaper that they are convinced from the evidence they have seen that McVeigh was aligned with Andreas C. Strassmeir, a German military officer that some believe was still on the payroll of the Bundeswehr (German military) at the time of the blast. One former senior member of the DOJ put it in strong terms. He laid blame at the feet of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Forearms. “I know Strassmeir was central to this crime and I believe Carol Howe, the informant, was dead right. She warned the ATF and they blew this whole thing. They knew the details of what was in the works and they messed everything up. “FBI headquarters knew about Strassmeir’s presence at the Elohim City compound and couldn’t admit it. They had to find a way to work around the agents in the field. I don’t think (Danny) Defenbaugh had any idea how much stuff was being withheld from him and his men.” Indeed, in the days leading up to McVeigh’s planned execution, thousand of pages of documents regarding other suspects in the case suddenly began turning up in FBI field offices around the country. With the possibility that there could be thousands of pages of important FBI interviews that attorneys for McVeigh had never seen, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft had no choice but to put off the execution until the matter could be further explored. A former crime lab technician, Defenbaugh, suddenly was placed in the embarrassing position of having to admit the largest and most expensive investigation in history had been compromised. He left his position as Dallas SAC and entered retirement soon after thousands of pages of previously unrevealed documents surfaced. Regarding some of the most recently discovered documents, a former DOJ official said that he is still unable to answer all the questions, but agrees with others who played a role in the OKBOMB investigation, saying Strassmeir was and still remains the key figure in the bungled sting operation and subsequent cover-up. “We didn’t do an interview with this guy,” he said. “Can you believe that? Two assistant U.S. attorneys made a phone call over a year after the bombing and let an FBI agent listen and take notes. Hell, that’s not a real investigation. The FBI would go straight to Berlin and get him. This is a joke.” Confirming his recollection of events, the newspaper has obtained a copy of a FD-302, which records an FBI agent’s recollections of two telephone interviews with Andy Strassmeir. Strassmeir’s attorney, Kirk Lyons, was included in both overseas conference calls made at the behest of the DOJ. The first conference call took place on April 30, 1996. The second took place the following day. Calling from Oklahoma City, special agent Lou Ann Sandstrom monitored both calls to Berlin, while DOJ lawyers Aitan Goelman and Beth Wilkinson asked several questions about Strassmeir’s relationship with McVeigh. The FD-302 notes that, “Strassmeir did not remember meeting McVeigh until he was interviewed by defense investigator Richard Reyna. Reyna told Strassmeir that McVeigh remembered meeting Strassmeir, and that Strassmeir bought several items from McVeigh. “Reyna also told Strassmeir that McVeigh also tried to call him.” Claiming that his memory was refreshed by the visit from the defense investigator, Strassmeir said he told Reyna that he may have met McVeigh at the Tulsa Gun Show and never saw nor heard from him again. Notes recorded by Special Agent Sandstrom also reflect the following exchange concerning a phone call McVeigh made from his motel room in Kingman, AZ., before the bombing: “Strassmeir advised he could not recall where he was on April 5, 1995, when a call came into Elohim City for him, but believed he was out working on a nearby property, and did not receive the call. “On April 19, 1995, Strassmeir said he and Eddie Wing were clearing a fence line on property located ten miles from Elohim City. Strassmeir could not remember the name of the property owner.” Concluding the interview, Strassmeir told Goelman and Wilkinson that, “He was not involved in the planning or execution of the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, nor did he have any foreknowledge of the bombing.” Howe revelations Readers may recall that this newspaper published a series of articles beginning in the spring of 1997 detailing its interviews with ATF informant Carol E. Howe. Howe, a college student and former Houston, Texas, debutante, was recruited by the Tulsa office of the ATF in the late summer of 1994. Howe accepted employment with the agency after passing a polygraph examination. As a paid confidential informant, her assignment was to infiltrate the neo-Nazi movement in eastern Oklahoma. From trips to Elohim City in the fall of 1994, Howe quickly discovered a plot there to overthrow the government with violence. At the center of the conspiracy was the camp’s paramilitary advisor “Andy the German” Strassmeir. Howe’s reports were sent to the Dallas regional office and then forwarded to Washington, D.C. Marked sensitive-confidential, her identity was simply CI-183. The Howe file clearly indicates a violent plot at Elohim City – a plot that included “(M)ass shootings and bombings of government installations.” And the person said to be urging the killings was Strassmeir. Interviewed on Dec. 24, 1996, Howe told the Gazette, “All Andy wanted to do was blow up federal buildings. That’s the truth. He even told the young radicals he was training that, if they wouldn’t go to war with the U.S. government, he would leave and find a group that would.” Speaking of Elohim City spiritual advisor and founder, Robert Millar, Howe told the Gazette: “Millar even gave a sermon and urged the younger members under Andy’s training to prepare for war with the government. He told them other militias would follow suit. The key date was the upcoming anniversary of Waco: April 19th.” So violent was the rhetoric at Elohim City that the Tulsa office obtained a large number of “mail covers,” and phone calls were recorded at the urging of the U.S. attorney’s office in Tulsa. So complete was the undercover operation, the ATF even had a video camera installed in Howe’s apartment in Tulsa where she entertained several members of the Aryan Republican Army. On one videotape, White Aryan Resistance leader Tom Metzger of California was even caught visiting the attractive young blonde’s apartment. In spite of the detailed information and recordings of the radicals, no one seemed to be able to thwart the plan. On Patriot’s Day, 1995, 149 men, women and 19 children perished. Another 500 were injured. Shortly after the bombing, the ATF boosted Howe’s pay and sent her back to Elohim City. There she reported that the residents were preparing for a standoff with the government. A few tense days later, Howe returned to Tulsa and told her ATF handler, Angela Finley Graham, that a member of the leadership at the camp confirmed the group’s role in the bombing, saying simply, “We have a big secret here.” Howe knew who McVeigh was. She heard his name at the camp many times. “It was Tuttle this or Tim Tuttle that,” Howe recalled for this newspaper. I even saw him there one time. He was walking along with Andy. He was just one of many skinheads that passed through.” Howe’s work was terminated though, shortly after she made her report public about the “big secret” at Elohim City. According to documents in Howe’s ATF file, the FBI then contacted the informant’s supervisors and told them to close their investigation into Elohim City and completely back off. Later, this newspaper obtained copies of Howe’s (largely) complete file after she began cooperating with the Gazette. Someone familiar with the ATF’s investigation at Elohim City after the bombing offered an explanation for the FBI’s actions. “The FBI learned from inside that militia members were coming to Elohim City for a standoff. It was clear we were dealing with some very dangerous people who were capable of anything. We wanted to avoid more bloodshed and that’s why they (ATF) had to be pushed out. If we wanted something from Elohim City, all the FBI had to do was pick up the phone and call Robert (Millar).” That individual went on to say that he remains convinced the ATF would have eventually made the situation far worse had the agency continued to meddle with the OKBOMB case. “Look at Waco. Just look at Waco,” he repeated. Shortly after the DOJ learned that Howe had begun giving this newspaper interviews about the plot, she was indicted in Tulsa federal court on conspiracy to make bomb threats and possession of an unregistered destructive device. However, it took the jury only a short time to find her innocent of all charges. A member of that jury told this newspaper they were handed the case at nearly 5 pm on Friday. “Someone said, ‘I think we all know this girl has been set up by the government and we know she should go free. But why don’t we order dinner from the best BBQ joint in town and eat on the government’s dime one more time?’” Even after Howe was acquitted of the charges, government officials made comments to major media, dismissing Howe as a radical, mentally deranged, or both. To some extent the tactic has worked, but a former DOJ official said he is more convinced than ever Howe had good information. Solid in his book “She’s solid in my book. I’d like to meet her,” he said about Howe and the intelligence she uncovered at Elohim City. “The FBI knew about Strassmeir. He was reporting to the Germans <hr></blockquote> I haven't really looked into the OKC case much at all, so can anyone that's familiar with that event shed any light on the info these Whistle Blowers are providing? Does it seem to fit with other info out there? Either way, I'd like to see more attention brought to this because we may have just been handed a story that hightlights the new risks to Whistle Blowers created by the Plame/Rove affair, <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44444">coverup techniques</a> similar to what we saw with 9/11 and the London Bombings, and, assuming this whole story isn't some sort of disinfo, gives us just one more example of the kind of difference insiders can make when they step forward and blow the whistle. We can't let something like this fall through the cracks! Whistle Blowers need to know there exists a growing segment of the public that will get their backs by giving them attention when they stick their necks out, especially any potential Whistle Blowers that may be watching cases like this and assessing balancing the costs and benefits in their own particular cases. So can any shed any light on these whistle blowers? Do they sound like they're legit? If so, let's spread the word on this story, and fast!

by **DrDebugDU** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:06 pm

The story sounds very good. The biggest problems with the official story is that they immediately named Timothy McVeigh the chief suspect and hardly investigated anything else including any links Timothy had. The biggest problem - as I've mentioned earlier in a different thread - is that the official bomb the 4800 pound fertilizer bomb could never have produced so much damage. The best story I've read about OKC is the The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror by David Hoffman Copyright © 1998 David Hoffman Published online with the irrevocable permission of the author to republish with attribution on a non-profit basis. Excerpt from the introduction <blockquote>Quote:<hr> (...) As rescue workers continued the difficult task of searching for bodies, and hospital workers began attending to victims, law enforcement agents began searching for clues. What was clear as law enforcement personnel descended upon the scene, was that the blast had left a 30 foot wide, 8 feet deep crater in front of the building. Fortunately, a ATF agent who had recently attended a course on the identification of car and truck-bombs just happened to be in the federal courthouse. The agent was able to identify the cause of the blast immediately. He telephoned his superiors in Dallas and told them that an ammonium nitrate truck-bomb had just blown up the Murrah Building. Sixty miles away, near Perry Oklahoma, Highway Patrolman Charles Hanger was making his usual rounds. Around 10:30 a.m. Officer Hanger noticed a battered 1977 yellow Mercury, without a license plate, speeding along at 81 miles an hour. Pulling the vehicle over, Hanger cited the driver, 26-year-old Timothy James McVeigh, for driving without a license plate. As he was about to let McVeigh go, Hanger noticed a distinct bulge under McVeigh's windbreaker. When he asked McVeigh what he had under his jacket, McVeigh casually informed the cop that he had a gun — a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol. Hanger subsequently arrested McVeigh for carrying a concealed weapon, driving without a tags, and driving without insurance.[4] Back in Oklahoma City, investigators were busily searching the wreckage for clues that could lead them to the perpetrators. It didn't take long for investigators to find what they were looking for — a piece of axle and a license plate — believed to have been part of the truck used in the bombing. After FBI agents ran the VIN (vehicle identification number) and the plate through their Rapid Start computer system, they discovered the vehicle belonged to a Ryder rental agency in Florida. A check with the agency revealed that the truck, a 1993 Ford, was rented out of Elliott's Body Shop in Junction City, Kansas. Elliott's said that they had rented the 20-foot truck to a Bob Kling on April 17th, and gave the FBI artist a description of two men who had rented the truck, known as Unsub #1 and Unsub #2. Kling, Unsub #1, had listed his address as 3616 North Van Dyke Road in Decker, Michigan. The address was the home of James Douglas Nichols and Terry Lynn Nichols. A quick check of that address with the Michigan Department of Motor Vehicles revealed a license in the name of Timothy James McVeigh. FBI agents interviewing James Nichols and relatives in Decker quickly learned that Timothy McVeigh was a friend of Nichols, who possessed large quantities of fuel oil and fertilizer. Armed with a search warrant, agents found 28 50-pound bags of fertilizer containing ammonium nitrate, a 55 gallon drum containing fuel oil, blasting caps, and safety fuse. Interviews with neighbors[, including Daniel Stomber, Paul Isydorak and others,] revealed that the Nichols brothers and McVeigh had experimented with explosives, using household items to produce small bombs using bottles and cardboard cartons, which they would detonate on their property for fun. Witnesses also claimed that in December of 1993, McVeigh and one of the Nichols brothers had visited Thumb Hobbies, Etc. to inquire about purchasing 100% liquid nitro model airplane fuel. One of these witnesses had reported that James Nichols had repeatedly blamed the U.S. government for all the problems in the world. Federal agents then decided they had enough evidence to arrest James Nichols, and to put out a warrant on his brother Terry, who was living in Herrington, Kansas. On April 22, Terry Nichols, wondering why his name was being broadcast on television, walked into the local police station in Herrington. In the meantime, witnesses at the scene of the bombing had given FBI agents a description of possible suspects. While interviewing people in Junction City, agents spoke to the manager of the Dreamland Motel who recognized the composite sketch of the suspect the FBI called Unsub #1. The man had registered at the Dreamland from April 14 to April 18 under the name of Tim McVeigh, had driven a yellow Mercury, and provided an address on North Van Dyke Road in Decker, Michigan. On April 21, Carl E. Lebron, a former co-worker of McVeigh's, recognized the composite sketch of Unsub #1 on TV and called the FBI. He said that the man was named Timothy McVeigh, and that he was possessed of extreme right-wing views, was a military veteran, and was particularly agitated over the deaths of the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas in April, 1993. The man told the FBI that McVeigh expressed extreme anger towards the Federal Government. The man gave the FBI the last known address he had for McVeigh: 1711 Stockton Hill Road, #206, Kingman, Arizona. Back in Perry, Oklahoma, McVeigh was still sitting in a cell at the Noble County Courthouse, waiting for his arraignment. After feeding McVeigh's name into the National Crime Information Center, the FBI discovered their suspect sitting quietly in the Noble County jail on a traffic and weapons charge. Just as McVeigh was about to be set free, District Attorney John Maddox received a call from the FBI telling him to hold on to the prisoner, that he was a prime suspect in the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. So, by good luck, diligent work, and an amazing series of coincidences, federal law enforcement authorities solved the most heinous crime in the history of the United States — all within 48 hours. Or did they? <a href="http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt_00.htm">www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt_00.htm</a> <hr></blockquote> The story above more or less sums up the entire official investigation which is close to nothing... All other documents and information was neglected and based on a phone call, some fertilizer and driving without a licence plate he was arrested and considered the main suspect and eventually the person who committed the atrocity.

by **slimmouse** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:36 pm

OKC - What a joke. I have also read , via Icke that along with a load of innocent people, what also went up along with the OKC building was much of the witness testimony in the Mcmartin daycare scandal. Anyone else know anything more about that ? Meanwhile, Is it just me, or do I sense a serious shift in the mindset of American consciousness. Have People have had it with the crap ? Right the way up the chain ? This must REALLY spook them, because of course once any single major coverup gets blown, then the wave will simply grow, and at speed too - and an already skeptical ( in many quarters) American Public will start to become more vociferous, and the word will spread et cetera. OKC may well be a good place to start , since this will also wake people up to the reality that this isnt just about repubs or Dems - Its about the whole filthy system. From our point of view its about chipping away - informing people. Our information thru the chinese whispers system, will eventually reach a journalist, lawyer or politician, who will then be thinking - " Wait a minute, This isnt the first time Ive heard this" You get the picture. Stick at it gang.

by **dbeach** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:22 pm

"Fortunately, a ATF agent who had recently attended a course on the identification of car and truck-bombs just happened to be in the federal courthouse. The agent was able to identify the cause of the blast immediately. He telephoned his superiors in Dallas and told them that an ammonium nitrate truck-bomb had just blown up the Murrah Building.' Such coincidence! On the spiritual quest..it is less likely to encounter coincidence than clarity "I am not a Human on a spiritual journey I am a Spirit on a human journey" life has no coincidences..only God incidences

by **glooperoo** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:49 am

Given the strange dynamic we have in the US these days, where the Right spent much of 90's learning about all the Clinton-related conspiracies, but then embraced the official 9/11 story, while at the same time the Left, who had spent the 90's dismissing those "rightwing nutjobs", is increasingly embracing the "9/11 inside job" perspective, this story appears to me to be particularly well suited for spreading the word on the right-leaning sites (hopefully as part of a larger post that includes all the damning 9/11 info). Not that the Lefties don't need to also see this story (especially to see the bi-partisan nature of our dilemma) , but I think it's about time all the OKC tinfoilers that have so far resisted the urge to look into 9/11 get another reminder of what a coverup looks like and what's possible in this world.

by **smiths** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:51 am

i am no bomb expert an i probably shouldnt trust anyone who is but this analysis of the damage pretty clearly shows that inside charges on supporting pillars needed to be detonated to get results and no nutters off the street could walk into a federal building and place bombs at strategic weak points. <a href="http://independence.net/okc/congressbombreport.htm">independence.net/okc/cong...report.htm</a>

by **DrDebugDU** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: slimmouse > This must REALLY spook them, because of course once any single major coverup gets blown, then the wave will simply grow, and at speed too Indeed. We have quite a number of terror attacks the last couple of years and they all share a common denominator: The official story is very weak and filled with holes, however a lot of people buy them, so the ones who are doing just keep on doing it. It would be wonderful if somebody could solve 9/11 but that terror attack was so complex that it'll be very hard to find a correct alternative story. (It is easy to find holes in the official story but putting up an alternative without holes is close to impossible as well). So maybe OKC, Bali bombing etc. are a better place to start, because once they are uprooted then the other terror campaigns will fall as well as a house of cards.

OKC Bombing Whistle Blowers

OKC Bombing Whistle Blowers

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