New book on Greenspan: bigtime scamster

[Peachtree Pam]

<br>Here is a book review on Greenspan's role in destroying the middle class in US:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.buzzflash.com/hartmann/05/07/har05007.html">www.buzzflash.com/hartman...05007.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

Just a minor lonely little flag up -no argument in general here. My rule of thumb: Be careful about assigning blame at that level to an individual (even in the form of highlighting someone's "role"), and be wary of the ultimate intentions of those that reduce it to that level, esp in well-published books accompanied by left/alt media campaigns targetted at "thinkers" such as this book. <br>As the great final transfer of wealth from the N. American working-class occurs - the so-called "End of Suburbia" - Greenspan will become a lightening-rod for anger on the part of the masses. Not that this is the only reason, but I happen to think his Jewishness is an obvious benefit to the p.t.b., somewhat like the role Kissinger (willinglly) played in the 70's (and still plays to a degree), if you are aware of that. (Also note Hitchens quick switch-play from indicting Henry for war crimes to hitting for the Bush team - to me that adds to the suspiscious side of the column when weighing this all out). <br><br>On this economic note, which is a great discussion to have, do you remember Carter-appointed, Reagan-era fed sec Paul Volker's comments like "Working Americans need to learn to tighten their belts in the coming years." "Labor must give back", and "The free ride is over"? <br><br>Ya know what's really worth reading as we get further down the downsizing path is the first section of Christian Parenti's book Lockdown USA (not that the rest isn't good), which does a great job breaking down how we got to this point. It illuminates the fact that, contrary to popular opinion (which says the '60's), the strongest time of united grass-roots power in the US since the great depression was actrua;lly in the '70's. <br>Never before (since the '30's) were there more, strikes, more slowdowns and sitdowns and wildcats, (nottomention sabatoge and absenteeism and other forms of oassive resistanc to management). And they were really freaked out by this, and brought a recession down on purpose to break the back of labor (starting [most well-know]w/ the Patco mass-firing in '80. <br>I have gathered a lot of info on this angle because I think it is a "big meme" that is coming via "blame midddle america", red/blue state, anti-socialism, de-centralization, bio-regionalism (not that I think it's not a valid concept when looking at, say, land use), end of suburbia/peak oil, etc. a whole slew of different ideas that are popular among the left and many other political stripes nowadays. Even well-meaning environmentalists themselves. AS an even greater aside, why would the Penatgon be sponsoring Amory & Hunter Lovins? <p></p><i></i>

[Peachtree Pam]

Thanks. It probably is a bit much to blame it all on Greenspan. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>I liked the way he outlined what had happened, for which I agree you can't blame one man.<br><br>I'll look out for 'Lockdown USA', it sounds interesting. <p></p><i></i>

[Qutb]

People tend to forget Volcker, he has played an important role in the screwing of America's working class. I agree that we tend to focus too much on particular very visible individuals, and as you point out, it is perhaps not a coincidence that they tend to be Jewish. The neo-cons is a case in point. They are the Straussian ideologues and Fox talking heads which Seymour Hersh can point to as the "cabal" of half a dozen individuals who now determine America's foreign policy. Of course, that's not quite what is going on.<br><br>Volcker and George Shultz (another very important person who people tend to ignore) played a central role in the dismantling of the Bretton Woods monetary system in which the dollar was pegged to gold and every other currency was pegged to the dollar with a fixed exchange rate. They made sure it was replaced with the current system of free trade in currency in which George Soros can make or brake a nation.<br><br>So yeah, to use the old conspiracy theory cliché: They're all in on it! <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

You sound right on point.<br>I appreciate your questioning of Seymour "a cabal has hijacked our good cia" Hersh.<br><br>And word up on Schultz, he's definitely crypto and a background man. I've been trying to get ahold of a tape of a confence that c-span ran just about a year or so before 9/11 where he was the keynote speaker, and basically was speaking very openly about a lot of stuff that they wouldn't come out and admit to today, like the fact that we won the cold war by the Reagan team diverting money from our [worker's pockets] economy (which he portrayed as a patriotic and selfless act), among other pretty damning stuff. Unfortunately I never could find it. Wasn't he pro-legalization? I just say that to relate it to Soros, who you also mention and must know is a big funder of that movement. Just to flesh out the chart, so to speak. Ironically he's also my part-time neighbor. <br> <br>I would love to continue this or related discussions w/ you and take it as far as it can go for us.<br><br>I think the neocon mythology/Israel/jew thing is a MAJOR issue that we will have to deal w/ more and more. [As more folks start believing those lies]. <br><br>Unfortunately, I will have to depart pretty soon for today. Maybe later we can pick it up.<br><br>Have you read the discussions I started regarding Ramsey Clark of IAC/Answer and Kalle Lasn of adbusters?<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Peachtree Pam]

Hi Qutb and Proldic,<br><br>If the idea is to take all the money away from the working class, how will the working class pay for the products that the elites produce? What is the objective?<br><br>I don't know much about economics, maybe you two can give me the answer?<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

It happens periodically throughout capitalist history – a cycle of expand and contract, expand and contract. The most recent “Great Depression” of the ‘30’s is a good example.<br><br>The “back story” is how the hidden hand of capitalism acts on the level of manipulating that cycle, primarily to control the power (and expectations) of working people, specifically in the form of a check on the growth of organized labor and concurrent social benefits. It also has the additional benefit (to them) of removing thousands of small and medium-sized businesses - “getting rid of the competition” for the giant monopolies and trusts. <br><br>The concept of “surplus labor” is also important. To survive, capitalism must maintain a large pool of un-and under-employed workers. On a basic level, the existence of this speaks to the obvious failure of “our” system to provide full employment. On another level, it is necessary for them to maintain this large population of Americans so as to contribute to the check on the growth of an organized class of workers. Beyond simply keeping these people off the shop floor and out of the unions, another way this helps the p.t.b. is by providing a ready supply of cheap temporary replacement workers (note the huge growth in non-professional temp agencies), forms of essentially free or “slave” labor (think work-for-welfare programs), and of course strikebreakers. Many of those folks end up becoming what Marx called “lumpen”, living in a state of hopelessness and depression that feeds crime and psychological problems, which also happen to benefit the system in their own ways<br><br>(I believe) that the popular idea that the power of the capitalists is built upon the sale of consumer goods (“gidgets, gadgets, and widgets” as Starhawk calls them) is a “big lie” meme being pushed right alongside “blame middle America”, “red sate/blue state”, “buy nothing day”, “the end of suburbia”, “peak oil”, and “decentralization”. This lie places the blame for our corrupt system straight at the feet of the working class. Essentially, we’re fat, eat at McDonalds, drive SUV’s, and it’s our wastefulness that drives the system. To many people, this analysis seems to be true - I mean, many of us are wasteful and polluting, and we are caught up in a consumerist TV-driven lifestyles. Except those pure and enlightened folks who are all off-the-grid, buying from small-scale organic farms, driving grease cars, and home schooling their kids. (Not that there’s anything wrong with those things - per se.)<br><br>On the level that counts the most, this idea about how capitalism functions is dead wrong. On the level of numbers, it’s a lie. By a clear margin, the majority of the profits made by the capitalists are from selling us vital necessities - necessities that would ordinarily be socialized in a just economy. Food and water, housing, health care, energy, means of communication. The other (huge) part of that goes to what could be called essentially military uses. The smallest part of their profits comes from the sale of “non-necessary” consumer goods. <br><br>Come downsizing, we will still have to pay for those necessities. Also, if you look in poor neighborhoods here in the US or even in the “3rd world”, you see a ton of money being made off of people in poverty, from things like check cashing, lack of free transportation, predatory lending, etc. etc. And there are still tons of cheap and cheaply-made consumer goods being sold to the poor, even in the slums of Rio. <br><br>This is all about an “austerity” program being pushed by the elites at a time of "percolating people power". They will tell us that "more people will have to learn to do without”. More children will become malnourished. Many, many more formerly decently-paid workers will join the ranks of the poor. The question is how hard and how long this contraction will be, and how bad it will have to get before working-class people see their commonality, wake up, and start mass-organizing effectively. <br><br>The scary bottom line is that we are segueing into a “3rd world” economy here in the US and Canada. <br> <br> <p></p><i></i>

[Peachtree Pam]

Thanks Proldic, that all makes sense.<br><br>However, why do you think it takes so much longer for the working class to 'see their commonality, wake up, and start mass-organizing effectively' in the US than in other countries? <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

I would say that's not really true. In a 30-year period starting at the end of the war (a period the peak oil movie “The End of Suburbia” called “…an economic blip on the radar…where plumbers and drywallers could own their own homes...”), a larger number of Americans than ever before experienced a cycle of relative prosperity in the ‘50’s, leading to a period of “stagflation”, and then into a recesssion. We have never really recovered from what was essentially one big downsizing/”recession” that stretched from 1975-1990, and now they are getting us mentally prepared for another. So if it seems that American workers are not at this precise moment able to 'see their commonality, wake up, and start mass-organizing effectively', do not despair, that does not reflect the overall historical lesson, nor do I think it reflects a new, growing reality at the grass-roots. Christian Parenti reminds us of a “forgotten” period of imperfect - yet still significant – multi-racial labor unity and genuine systemic threat in the ‘70’s. Not too long ago.<br><br>But most importantly, there is a history, a history that has been erased, not only from the mainstream textbooks, but also from the consciousness and “textbooks” of what could be called for a lack of a better word “the modern North American left”. That is a long and powerful history of united working-class activism throughout our country’s history. In fact, there exists a profoundly important radical history of working-class struggle that goes back to the very foundation of this country. That’s another suppressed history. And just because many of the founding fathers were racist slaveholders doesn’t mean they didn’t contribute their influence to this battle. There was a clear division in this country between supporters of hereditary government and believers in liberty and equality for all. (sound familiar?). Even if they were all rich white men, some - like Jefferson – played a significant role where their contributions to the cause of liberty and equality overshadowed - but did not erase that. And a few of them - like Tom Paine – could legitimately be called heroes. A good place to start if that path catches your eye is a book called “American Aurora” by Richard Rosenfeld (St. Martin’s). <br><br>And that history of united working-class power was best exemplified by the success of <br>the Communist Party USA in the 1930’s to organize and radicalize huge portions of <br>american labor. The CP, and to a lesser degree the Socialist & Populist parties, were held <br>in high esteem by the majority of working-class americans at that time. Their membership <br>grew enormously as they won concessions from the bosses. Those struggles brought us <br>most - if not all - of the gains we often take for granted today. So the system didn’t just <br>give us these gains willingly, our anscestors (if one is from the working-class) fought & <br>died for them. As I recently posted: <br><br>There is huge significance in the fact that we are not in concentration camps at this point, in the gains against indiscriminate murder and lynching by the upper classes, for justice, civil rights, and black political power, for ethnic & racial unity, in the elevation of working-class women to positions of political power, in the right to keep a home, and not be frozen out, or tossed out for signing a union card, in the right to speak out politically, to print and distribute leaflets, organize across class lines, or demonstrate, or in the the concept of a minimum living wage, or in the fact that kids can’t be used as cheap labor, or that we have collective bargaining, the 40-hour week, anti-trust and banking regulations, public libraries and transportation systems, concepts of workplace and consumer safety, the right for working-class people to get a higher education, in the fact that there is even something called “social security”, even in the very fact that – if you are working-class – you had a chance to be born.. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>