King-Kill 33: Masonic Symbolism in JFK assassination

[Twyla LaSarc]

I'd love to read it but it's making my eyes go buggy.

So who is the best, most reliable writer on occult symbolism in the media?

Sorry, I've got the series downloaded from tor and had forgotten the stupid geocities color schemes of the original pages.

If you are interested, best to paste the suckers into word pad.

I would be interested as well as to reliable writers on occultic symbolism in the media. Jeff and Chris Knowles of Secret Sun are of the handful who seem to have enough patience and knowledge to get it pretty much right, plus perhaps a few others, including Tim Boucher and his gnostic stuff, etc, but none are mainstream.

The mainstream has it's own agenda in sensationalizing the occult, whether it's trivializing it to make it too ridiculous to contemplate or using it as the scapegoat, the repository of all sins. I can't think of anyone I would consider a final authority.

[yathrib]

Speaking of which--as much of a fan as I am, and I'm a huge, huge fan--a lot of the blame for the conspiratainment phenomenon rests squarely at the feet of Robert Anton Wilson, may he RIP. It wasn't intentional. He was using the whole idea of conspiracy as an object lesson in human perception and the nature of belief. But he picked an area littered with the most repugnant artifacts of bigotry and stupidity. The mature reader would recognize this, but impressionable youngsters like myself (then, anyway) didn't really see how repugnant most of the ideas and people associated with it in fact were. Robert Anton Wilson was into conspiracies and he was hip and enlightened, so it must be cool. My Second Great (Rude) Awakening occurred with Ivan Stang's High Weirdness by Mail. I wrote to some of these lovable eccentrics he listed, only to find out that many of them were downright unpleasant, scary bigots and fanatics who now had my mailing address. And those were the days when your mailing address was your address.

[yathrib]

Yes, they made it out of whole cloth. But people like the youngsters who host "Out There Radio" take it as gospel. They talk all the time about the "revelation of the method" in connection with 9/11, etc. They're about where I was about twenty years ago, so I try not to feel like slapping them.

weren't these authors the originators of the phrase, "revelation of the method"? Or is there an earlier source for this idea?

I believe that is correct. Hoffman's "Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare" is the first use of that phrase I'm aware of.

It definitely didn't come from the Masons themselves, which is curious.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Great points, Yathrib. I should definitely re-read that trilogy, it's been at least a decade and it was hugely influential on me.

[psynapz]

Great points, Yathrib. I should definitely re-read that trilogy, it's been at least a decade and it was hugely influential on me.

Which trilogy, Illuminatus or Cosmic Trigger? In the second, he admits he didn't realize when he wrote the first that a lot of his most outlandish, tongue-in-cheek exaggerations lifted from sincere-sounding letters to Penthouse during his editorship were, to a greater extent than he knew, real.

Whatever that means.

[Wombaticus Rex]

I re-read Cosmic Trigger about a year ago. As the RZA always says, "You can't feed steak to a baby."

[JackRiddler]

I'm having a revelation of the method moment...

de[size=85]arht siht llik![/size]

[brainpanhandler]

This freed me to skip straight to Nathan... gasp... 28. Oh shit!

No intended correlation there, rather accidental.

Sure, sure there isn't. It's all just an accident, eh?

The name Nathan is assigned five or six times in the Bible. Most noted is Nathan the prophet who ministered during the days of king David (2 Samuel 12:1). He is the prophet whom God sends to David to inform him that his and Bathsheba's child will die because David had Bathsheba's husband Uriah murdered. Bathsheba's next child is named Solomon, and one of three following sons is named Nathan, possibly after the prophet. Luke traces the genealogy of Jesus through this Nathan (Luke 3), Matthew goes through Solomon (Mat 1). For a possible reason for this duality, read our article on Names in the Bible.
Other Nathans are: A Judahite with an Egyptian father (1 Chronicles 2:36); The father of one of David's thirty mighty men (2 Samuel 23:36); A leader among the returnees (Ezra 8:16), who may or may not be the same as the Nathan who divorces his foreign wife during the purge of Ezra (Ez 10:39).

The name Nathan comes from the verb (natan 1443), to give. Besides the regular meaning of giving, this verb is used in all sorts of placing, putting, committing, bestowing, even suffering, throwing, etc. Obviously, the derivations of this verb all mean gift: (mattan 1443b); (mattana 1443c); (mattat 1443d). A special term for a certain kind of servant to Levites, (netinim 1443a), the Nethinim or Given Ones, is also derived from this root (see Ezra 2:58, 8:20; compare with Numbers 31:30).

The name Nathan doesn't seem to denote something that is given (as NOBS Study Bible Name List suggests with the meaning of Gift), but rather an active form of the verb: He Will Give.

Names that are constructed from the name Nathan are: Elnathan, Nathanael, Nethanel, Nathan-melech, Nethaniah, and Jonathan.

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Nathan.html

[American Dream]

Inathan28 wrote:

Ah, this really brings back the memories, or the brain-damage where there are supposed to be memories. *Now* here is a Real Conspiracy Theorist, a dude too crazy, too racist, too antisemitic and too anti-gov't for even the John Birchers to accept him, not this watered-down stepchild "Reptilians cause chemtrails, no, by reptilians I do not mean 'Jews', honestly" crap. Bo Gritz ain't got shit on this dude, and it's taken most of the past ten years for Lyndon LaRouche to even start to get close to what this guy was saying. This is the straight, unadulterated*, hate-fueled Satanic Panic paranoia at its purest. The difference between David Icke and Downard is like the difference between 3.25% beer (Q:"Why do Americans drink beer so cold?" A:"So they can tell it apart from rat piss") and bathtub corn whiskey with the toxic methanol streaks still floating in it. One makes you piss a lot, the other causes throat cancer and blindness. After reading James Shelby Downard articles when I was 14, it took me more than a decade and about two serious recessions to get it out of my head.

I don't know that there's any credible evidence that James Shelby Downard existed at all, though there is good evidence that the notorious racist/anti-Semite Michael A. Hoffman II does exist.

Hoffman is a far more likely author than the alleged Downard....

[Wombaticus Rex]

So if he was fictional...he's at least a shared creation, right? Near as I can tell it would have to start with Hoffman + Grimstad, and then Adam Parfrey gets in on the joke later, because he wrote about meeting him in Mississippi. I definitely don't trust Parfrey as a source, although I always like his writing.

[thurnundtaxis]

FWIW: Adam Gorightly seems to have arrived at the conclusion that Downard was indeed a real person.

http://gorightly.wordpress.com/2009/03/ ... ard-redux/

...One area discussed in the Binnall interview was the issue of Downard’s actual existence, and how I came to the conclusion that it certainly appears he was an actual living, breathing entity, as opposed to the popular theory that “James Shelby Downard” was a literary hoax. In this regard, after hearing said interview, an email correspondent sent me the following link, [ http://genforum.genealogy.com/downard/messages/185.html ], attesting to the Downard Family tree branching out to JSD’s probable birthplace in Ardmore, Oklahoma.

[Wombaticus Rex]

At the link, though, it's just a submitted query:

Looking for info on this familly. Doctor William J. Downard married Harrit Olney 15 January 1868 in Madison, Ohio, they moved to Ardmore, Oklahoma. Doctor Downard died 16 Sept 1913 in Ardmore, Oklahoma, the whole town shut down the day of his funeral. Doctor Downard and Harriet had a son, Shelby Downard. Would appreciate any info regarding this family.
Doctor Downard served in the Civil War, Co M., 3rd Ohio Cav.

Gloria Keller Quiroz
Vallejo, Ca.
thefamily@scrserv.com

A submitted query with no responses. Get a load of that email address, too, huh?? It would seem Downard's father died shortly after James Shelby himself was born March 13, 1913.

I probably don't even have to tell anyone this, but March 13th, 1913 was a Friday, FWIW, and it's W quite a bit either way. William J. Casey was also born that day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Casey

[Stephen Morgan]

Why the downer on Downard?

Assuming Downard existed he was brought up in the most racist part of the western world at the most racist point in the twentieth century, so a bit of racism isn't surprising. Besides, as readers of the Mothman Prophecies, the Control of Candy Jones and the Controllers will know mind control/contact victims often become racist. And even at his most outlandish he doesn't say anything crazier than the stuff we get from Hugh, who I know has a small legion of fans here.

Personally I find the more outre elements of his story convincing. His deformed foreskin, which has a religious connection, his repeated rescue by swine, which have a connection with the divinity of ancient Egypt, his use of million dollar gold certificates, the exorcismal qualities of urinating upon ones oppressors, maybe even the Cock Robin business, and especially the miscegenating ways of the inner circle of the Ku Klux Klan which is just what I would suspect. Certainly no less believable than the stories of Cathy O'Brien and company and with a much more positive outlook, rather than the chronicling of the puppetisation of a person's mind.

Four stars.

[American Dream]

Wombaticus Rex wrote:

So if he was fictional...he's at least a shared creation, right? Near as I can tell it would have to start with Hoffman + Grimstad, and then Adam Parfrey gets in on the joke later, because he wrote about meeting him in Mississippi. I definitely don't trust Parfrey as a source, although I always like his writing.

Yes- a shared creation- which very much includes the inimitable Adam Gorightly, as thurnundtaxis rightly points out- this seems to be the most credible explanation for the Downard legacy.

Michael Hoffman seems like the leading candidate for the King/Kill piece...

[semper occultus]

"Downard" was interviewed by Grimstad for the "Sirius Rising" audio-tapes - which are as elusive as the Thunderbird photo - so there's some jobbing-actor somewhere who's now #4 in the conspiracy & could blow the gaffe if they happen to be extant & reading this.....