The Wikileaks Question

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby AlicetheKurious » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:41 am

Montag wrote:Exclusive: Key FBI whistleblower: Had WikiLeaks existed, 9/11, Iraq war ‘could have been prevented’
by Nathan Diebenow

...

“If there had been a mechanism like Wikileaks, 9/11 could have been prevented,” Coleen Rowley, a former special agent/legal counsel at the FBI's Minneapolis division, told Raw Story in an exclusive interview.

...

"That's not even us," she told Raw Story. "That's not our personal opinion. We’re really reciting the conclusions of the 9/11 Commission that attributed the failures of 9/11 to a failure to share information not only inside agencies, not only between agencies, but with the public and the media."

...

coleenrowley Exclusive: Key FBI whistleblower: Had WikiLeaks existed, 9/11, Iraq war could have been prevented Rowley worked closely with those who arrested would-be terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui on an immigration violation weeks before 9/11. She was one of three whistleblowers chosen as "Person of the Year" by TIME magazine.

"One of the reasons why the [website] existed with the 2.5 million documents shared at fairly low levels to even include privates was that was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission – that 9/11 occurred due to a failure to share this information. So they were trying to share things as much as possible," she said.


In other words, the September 11 attacks succeeded only because the US government agencies were too "inept" to communicate with each other about what AL-QAEDA and MUSLIM TERRORISTS were doing. If Wikileaks had existed, we would all have known what AL-QAEDA and MUSLIM TERRORISTS were planning, in time to stop them. Because, as Assange knows, it's "annoying" that people still don't believe the USG's official story about the September 11 attacks.

Image

Had Wikileaks existed, the US would not have invaded Iraq, although Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, many world leaders and record millions and millions of citizens pouring out into the streets around the globe weren't able to prevent it.

Had Wikileaks existed, the US would not have invaded Iraq, although Wikileaks is amplifying and echoing the exact same sort of false intelligence about Iran that had been used to "justify" the criminal assault against Iraq.

Just when everybody was feeling glum because the Obama campaign's promise of HOPE and CHANGE turned out to be a dud, along comes the Pied Piper of Wikileaks playing a fresh, new tune of HOPE and CHANGE and some (not all, not by a long shot) of us fall for it yet again.

Image
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Plutonia » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:50 pm

JackRiddler wrote:.Plutonia, thanks for the article by Paul Martin Eve, and I hope to see you posting more!


Uh, thanks Jack. Funny, I was thinking about Guggenheim and the Protestant Reformation, in that exact context yesterday.
You might be interested in this program, in future when you've got some time- long program is looong:
The Origins of the Modern Public

All of us today participate in imaginary communities that we call publics - our Ideas broadcast assembles a virtual community of listeners - a listening public. But there was a time when making things public was the exclusive property of men of rank. Matters of state, Queen Elizabeth I proclaimed to her subjects in 1559, were fit to be treated only by "men of authority" and conveyed only to audiences of "grave and discreet persons." By the 18th century it had become meaningful to talk about public opinion as a sovereign power formed outside the state. What happened in the intervening years to make this revolution possible is
the subject of this Ideas series.


I'm here cause of my interest in internet culture- the counter-intuitive open-source ideology of it's makers and the cross-over moments when the "fourth wall" is breached between the virtual and In Real Life worlds. that's when we find that the geeks are re-making the world in their own image.

Also, I was suffering from a reality deficit. To me, the Wikileaks event is a game-changer and coming here I found most of discourse around it to be inciteful rather than insightful. I bore it as long as I could.

Speaking of which, I'd like to request that this and the other Wikileaks "Question" thread be merged.

Why have the conversation split in two like that? Future readers may stumble across one or the other of the threads and think they are reading a full account. Besides, it's hard to have a conversation from two different rooms.
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Elvis » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Plutonia wrote:Ideas series.


Just wanted to say, that CBC Radio "Ideas" series is one of the best things ever on radio. I catch it when I can and caught most of the "Modern Public" series. Outstanding stuff.

Now back to our regular programming....

:dueling:
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:58 pm

Plutonia wrote:Speaking of which, I'd like to request that this and the other Wikileaks "Question" thread be merged.

Why have the conversation split in two like that? Future readers may stumble across one or the other of the threads and think they are reading a full account. Besides, it's hard to have a conversation from two different rooms.


God no. Do you really want all of one reposted in the other? It would flood and disrupt the organic development of each so far. (Shhh: Let the Spidey Sense gravitate to its own threads so that informed, critical discussion might occur elsewhere.)

Tell you what, I'll post links to the big ones in each of the big ones with a notice that there are alternate realities in play. For posterity and all (and I'm halfway optimistic that there will be some readers in that land.)

.

anothershamus wrote:This is how I feel, for the most part, I reserve a little bit of my own free will to disagree if I feel like it.
from Of Goats and Men :http://ofgoatsandmen.blogspot.com/

I'm getting sick of the irrational Wikileaks detractors...
Ok, yes it's all a conspiracy to shut down the internet. They want to do that we know. So anything we do, to expose truth, gives them an excuse to shut us down. By this logic, all of us are working for them. Give me a break. But this is the thinking going into a lot of Wikileaks criticism in the alternative news world.

I could be wrong of course, any of us could be, but the more I find out about Wikileaks, the more interesting it gets.

If you want to know the milieu where some of the ideas for Wikileaks originated....perhaps we should do what John Young suggested on Alex Jones today and have a look at the Wikipedia page for Cypherpunks.

It seems like a community of rebellious scientific minds who wanted to use technology and cryptography to defeat unjust authority in different ways.

Is this such a bad thing?

Why is it deserving of attack?

Ask these questions before you join the group screaming conspiracy against Wikileaks.

There are some exciting revelations coming up if John Young is to be believed. Future items which he expects to be released by Wikileaks have to do with everything from The Vatican to Weapons of Mass Destruction and leaks from the Banks.

Do you want to just scream psy-op or maybe see what info is about to come out? It might be interesting.
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Montag » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:19 pm

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:23 pm

Plutonia wrote:Speaking of which, I'd like to request that this and the other Wikileaks "Question" thread be merged.


Unfortunately, Plutonia, I have to agree with Jack that it's probably too late to merge the threads and still retain any organic or natural flow of the conversation occurring in the two.
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:38 pm

.

Lula Defends WikiLeaks, Offers Brazil's `Solidarity' With Jailed Founder

By Carla Simoes and Fabiola Moura - Dec 9, 2010

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva defended Julian Assange, founder of the WikiLeaks.org website that published more than 250,000 of U.S. diplomatic cables sent to or from embassies around the world.

Lula, a former union leader, said Assange did less harm than the classified documents’ authors, and offered his “solidarity” with the jailed Australian national.

“I’m surprised they arrested the man and I didn’t see any protest,” Lula said at an event today in Brasilia. “The guy was just posting what he read.”

Details of the cables, published in the media by newspapers including the New York Times and the U.K.’s Guardian, included a directive for U.S. diplomats to gather biometric information and other details of key United Nations officials and offers to countries to accept Guantanamo Bay detainees.

Leaked cables from Brazil shed light on U.S. government attempts to solicit Brazil’s help in isolating Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and showed U.S. diplomats discussing anti- American members of the Lula government.

Lula said that WikiLeaks “exposed a diplomacy that seemed to be untouchable.”

[SNIP Assange arrest details]

Last week, Lula said President Barack Obama should be “very worried´´ about the release of the cables, as they undermine global diplomacy. U.S. diplomats need to be more careful when sending their reports in the future, he said then.

Brazilian diplomats should also be aware of what they write, Lula said today. “If you don’t have anything to write, don’t write silliness.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Carla Simoes in Brasilia Newsroom at csimoes1@bloomberg.net Fabiola Moura in New York at fdemoura@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Joshua Goodman at jgoodman19@bloomberg.net
®2010 BLOOMBERG L.P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.


I guess Lula is aware that the revelation of Brazilian secrets would have been a pain in the ass for his government, and might shed light on a variety of corporate, police or prison abuses (which are not good but not very well hidden in Brazil), but probably would not confirm anyone's claims that Brazil is engaged in the constant preparation of new wars around the globe. When you have less to hide... you have less to "secrete."

.

Meanwhile, in reference to:

AlicetheKurious wrote:
article about Coleen Rowley wrote:Exclusive: Key FBI whistleblower: Had WikiLeaks existed, 9/11, Iraq war ‘could have been prevented’
by Nathan Diebenow

[Etc. etc.]


Alicean Logic - How To:
1) Coleen Rowley is one of about 20 to 200 million people currently publishing or having their opinions about Wikileaks published on the Web.
2) AlicetheKurious finds this opinion simply outrageous!
3) Magic jump! and voila: Therefore, Wikileaks is responsible for and indistinguishable from Coleen Rowley's opinion; and is a witting part of a Zionist-controlled plot to brainwash people into believing things that AlicetheKurious does not agree with.
PS - (Small print because deconstructing Alicean logic is no longer very important, if it ever was, so that you can choose to skip to more interesting things.) No matter what you think about 9/11, if you think the named Arab men who were blamed in the official story as the exclusive operative authors of the 9/11 events even existed on this Earth prior to 9/11 and might have had any relevance to the plot, even to an "inside job" plot... or if you think there might actually be men in the world who want to murder Americans in response to American murder, even if you believe they are subject to manipulation as patsies... then YOU, dear thinker, are a Zionist endorser of the official story. If we apply this analogously to the JFK assassination, then to look at Oswald in any context is to endorse the official story and makes you responsible for the assassination. Everyone must accept one line or be declared In On It.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:11 pm

.

Message to Posterity: Wikileaks Threads on RI

In November and December 2010, the Rigorous Intuition board saw the near-simultaneous creation of many threads approaching the Wikileaks phenomenon from different angles. Long discussions developed organically in several of these, and sometimes seemed to be held in radically alternate realities. As an aid to your historical research, this notice is being posted in six of those threads on Dec. 10 to remind you of the others.

Here are the current top-of-the-board discussions, with start author and date, in order of the number of posts as of Dec. 10:

The Wikileaks Question
by JackRiddler » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:10 pm (27 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30362

Assange Amazing Adventures of Captain Neo in Blonde Land.
by seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:29 pm (9 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29320

Questioning WikiLeaks Thread
by Montag » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:50 pm (7 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29933

Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fraud"
by lupercal » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:19 am (5 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30479

The rush to smear Assange's rape accuser.
by barracuda » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:17 pm (3 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30485

Cables Shine Light Into Secret Diplomatic Channels WIKI!
by seemslikeadream » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:29 pm (2 pages)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30359

PS, There are other shorter current ones as well as some older ones, so be sure to prompt Skynet to do a date-delineated search for you. Hope you are enjoying your flying cars and conveyer belts, cool jumpsuits, jauntes to Jovian moon colonies, casual sex changes and group marriages, and governing your Galactic Federation of Sentient Species by means of the Universal Metamind Congress. How's immortality treating ya? Do you still "get" irony? Do you trust Starfleet?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Simulist » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:15 pm

Thanks, Jack.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:19 pm

JackRiddler wrote:PS, There are other shorter current ones as well as some older ones, so be sure to prompt Skynet to do a date-delineated search for you. Hope you are enjoying your flying cars and conveyer belts, cool jumpsuits, jauntes to Jovian moon colonies, casual sex changes and group marriages, and governing your Galactic Federation of Sentient Species by means of the Universal Metamind Congress. How's immortality treating ya? Do you still "get" irony? Do you trust Starfleet?


Greetings from Dedsvil, third planet orbiting the Dog Star. Sorry to disappoint you, but I and my fellow iridium-based pseudoviruses are the only form of life left in the universe since The Second 9/11 of 2012, and none of us can read. Plus it's fucking freezing in this rock-pool.
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Of felony [...]
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby 82_28 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:29 pm

This would have to be the very first rickroll if this is even "serious": I highly doubt it is, but does lend a slight bit of levity to a somewhat contentious thread.

Saturday, 12 December 1998, 16:13
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 LONDON 000368
NOFORN
SIPDIS
DOE FOR GPERSON, CHAYLOCK
EO 12958 DECL: 12/12/2018
TAGS EPET, ENRG, PGOV, RS">RS, NI
SUBJECT: ENGLAND: RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY OF UK-US RELATIONSHIP CONFIRMED
REF: A. LONDON 365 B. LONDON 366
Classified By: Consul General Robbie Honerkamp for reasons 1.4 (B) and (D )

1. (S/NF) Summary: We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I.
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of. You wouldn't get this from any other guy.
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling. Gotta make you understand.

2. (C/NF) Chorus: Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

3. (S/NF) We've known each other for so long Your heart's been aching but You're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on We know the game and we're gonna play it
And if you ask me how I'm feeling Don't tell me you're too blind to see

4. (C/NF) Chorus: Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

5. (C/NF) Chorus: Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

6. (C/NF) Background Singers: (Ooh, give you up) (Ooh, give you up) (Ooh) Never gonna give, never gonna give
(Give you up) (Ooh) Never gonna give, never gonna give (Give you up)

7. (S/NF) We've know each other for so long Your heart's been aching but You're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on We know the game and we're gonna play it
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling Gotta make you understand

8. (C/NF) Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

9. (C/NF) Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

10. (C/NF) Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you. ASTLEY


http://www.ding.net/wikileaks/234867.txt
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Elvis » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:50 pm

Thanks, 82_28, you made me take a deep breath and laugh.

:bigsmile
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:01 pm

.

Yeah.

Getting back to the Jimmy Johnson article, full text here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30362&start=375#p370614

By translating the bible into the vernacular they declassified the bible, which had been effectively a state secret up to that point.


December 9, 2010
Of Wikileaks and Literacy
The Secret Secret

By JIMMY JOHNSON

If you cannot decipher and interpret letters and symbols, you cannot read. If you cannot access letters and symbols, you also cannot read. This is a common understanding and in many ways, such as leaving out the capacity for critical analysis and the ability to write, is as reductive an understanding of the concept of literacy as exists. Public libraries are underfunded and many are cutting staff, services and hours which attacks our collective literacy. There is another, arguably greater, threat to our collective literacy, one that grossly restricts the amount of publicly available literature and serves severe imbalances of power: state secrecy...

http://counterpunch.org/johnson12092010.html


It occurred to me that in his very useful approach at a map of secrecy, delving into classification and "derivative" classification of more information each year than is actually published in books, access as literacy, the "cleared" as a caste or high priests, and the rest of us as not knowing the real map of our own world and history because we can't see the dark matter, he needs to add the variable of disinformation and deception, and the ways that makes both the people and to an extent the "cleared" even dumber. He deals with it in the section on Powell's 2003 case for war to the UN, noting that the information Powell was able to privilege by authority of his access clearance ("I know what I can't tell you, so believe me") was actually lies and distortions, and less accurate than the information available in the public domain showing there were no WMD or Iraqi links to 9/11. But he should add more about how disinformation is a witting form of "derivative classification" complicating the big picture.

All to say I hope everyone reads Johnson -- hey, this is my recommendation so don't if you don't want to -- because I think it may be the most insightful and "big picture" article in these first 27 pages, along with the one vanlose kid posted by Andrew Gavin Marshall, here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30362&start=315#p370129

Wikileaks and the Worldwide Information War
Power, Propaganda, and the Global Political Awakening

by Andrew Gavin Marshall
Global Research, December 6, 2010

Introduction

The recent release of the 250,000 Wikileaks documents has provoked unparalleled global interest, both positive, negative, and everywhere in between. One thing that can be said with certainty: Wikileaks is changing things.

There are those who accept what the Wikileaks releases say at face value, largely due to the misrepresentation of the documents by the corporate-controlled news.

There are those who see the documents as authentic and simply in need of proper interpretation and analysis.

Then there are those, many of whom are in the alternative media, who approach the leaks with caution and suspicion.

There are those who simply cast the leaks aside as a ‘psy-op’ designed to target specific nations that fit into U.S. foreign policy objectives. Finally, then, there are those who deplore the leaks as ‘treason’ or threatening ‘security’. Of all the claims and notions, the last is, without a doubt, the most ridiculous. This essay aims to examine the nature of the Wikileaks releases and how they should be approached and understood. If Wikileaks is changing things, let’s hope people will make sure that it changes things in the right direction...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=22278


Notwithstanding I haven't gotten around to this, which really sounds interesting:

Plutonia wrote:You might be interested in this program, in future when you've got some time- long program is looong:
The Origins of the Modern Public

All of us today participate in imaginary communities that we call publics - our Ideas broadcast assembles a virtual community of listeners - a listening public. But there was a time when making things public was the exclusive property of men of rank. Matters of state, Queen Elizabeth I proclaimed to her subjects in 1559, were fit to be treated only by "men of authority" and conveyed only to audiences of "grave and discreet persons." By the 18th century it had become meaningful to talk about public opinion as a sovereign power formed outside the state. What happened in the intervening years to make this revolution possible is
the subject of this Ideas series.


Thanks, plutonia.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby elfismiles » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:06 pm

It’s Payback Time! The cyberwar begins by Justin Raimondo
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010 ... back-time/

FLASHBACK: State and Terrorist Conspiracies & Conspiracy as Governance by Julian Assange
http://cryptome.org/0002/ja-conspiracies.pdf

The Original WikiLeaker
http://www.observer.com/2010/media/original-wikileaker

WikiLeaks battle: a new amateur face of cyber war?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101209/tc_ ... re_amateur

The Case of Wikileaks, Part I—The Hacker’s Treehouse
http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2010/12 ... ckers.html

The New McCarthyism, The Real Terrorists—The Case of Wikileaks, Part II
http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2010/12 ... -case.html

WikiLeaks; Three Views
http://www.colinandrews.net/WikiLeaks4.html

Okay so that last link is from crop circle researcher Colin Andrews ... he intrigued me by saying (on another page):


December 9, 2010.
WikiLeaks and freedom of the press:
Two points of view:
1. Stop the shut down
2. As Henry Kissinger said "The best way to seize control of a situation is to create the
problem then provide the solution."
– is that what is happening, supervision or control over
the www? One advisor to Canadian Prime Minister even called for Assassination HERE

http://www.colinandrews.net/New-Postings-Links.html



Does anyone else know about that supposed Henry Killinger quote? Doesn't bring up anything when googled.
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Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby nathan28 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:39 pm

elfismiles wrote:Okay so that last link is from crop circle researcher Colin Andrews ... he intrigued me by saying (on another page):


December 9, 2010.
WikiLeaks and freedom of the press:
Two points of view:
1. Stop the shut down
2. As Henry Kissinger said "The best way to seize control of a situation is to create the
problem then provide the solution."
– is that what is happening, supervision or control over
the www? One advisor to Canadian Prime Minister even called for Assassination HERE

http://www.colinandrews.net/New-Postings-Links.html



Does anyone else know about that supposed Henry Killinger quote? Doesn't bring up anything when googled.


It's a actually a quote from Hegel's Democracy in America.
„MAN MUSS BEFUERCHTEN, DASS DAS GANZE IN GOTTES HAND IST"

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