The Wikileaks Question

[Simulist]

I work with people who do and I work with others who have done the research needed to absolutely confirm that Mr. Assange is who he says he is and Wikileaks is a grass roots organization with no funding or help from any intelligence agencies whether it be the CIA or Mossad.

That is clearly false, even on the face of it.

If WikiLeaks were in fact a secret, compartmentalized intelligence operation (and I am not claiming that it is, at this early date), then even certain intelligence officials who do not possess a need-to-know would be unable to confirm what you are saying or to rule all these things out, categorically.

Even if you do have some real knowledge (and I think this is increasingly doubtful), then you are wildly overstating your case.

You provide no proof for your claims — no proof whatsoever — in fact, all you appear to be able to provide is a weak (and very dubious) appeal to "some" authority.

...you're just going to have to take my word for it at this time...

No, actually. No one has to do that.

And at this point, those who might be so inclined are probably foolish.

[The Hacktivist]

Maybe it is an ARG.

Maybe The Hacktivist is really Th3J3st3r!

No, I know him, not in the same league as me/us. But funny nonetheless lol.

[The Hacktivist]

I work with people who do and I work with others who have done the research needed to absolutely confirm that Mr. Assange is who he says he is and Wikileaks is a grass roots organization with no funding or help from any intelligence agencies whether it be the CIA or Mossad.

That is clearly false, even on the face of it.

If WikiLeaks were in fact a secret, compartmentalized intelligence operation (and I am not claiming that it is, at this early date), then even certain intelligence officials who do not possess a need-to-know would be unable to confirm what you are saying or to rule all these things out, categorically.

Even if you do have some real knowledge (and I think this is increasingly doubtful), then you are wildly overstating your case.

You provide no proof for your claims — no proof whatsoever — in fact, all you appear to be able to provide is a weak (and very dubious) appeal to "some" authority.

...you're just going to have to take my word for it at this time...

No, actually. No one has to do that.

And at this point, those who might be so inclined are probably foolish.

Incorrect, but I dont feel the need to demonstrate with anyone here, it isnt within the ethical guidelines we work with. We can confirm anything we want, I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend. If we want information we will get it.

Like I said I dont expect anyone here to believe me and thats ok, I will stick around and enjoy the discussion, but I am putting it on the record that I know for a fact that Mr. Assange is exactly who he claims to be and Wikileaks is exactly what it is. There is no intelligence agency behind it, they may be infiltrating it now, they may be hand feeding Mr. Assange information that benefits them and their objectives in the long run but I can assure you that Wikileaks and Mr Assange are legit and genuine.

I have no need to provide proof, the proof is in the pudding. You will see, stay tuned and keep watching, there is a lot more to come, this is only now getting started. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, I came here to state on the record that I KNOW FOR A FACT Mr. Assange is legit, his charges are being manufactured and stem from a honey pot operation he got caught up in after a few too many drinks, and, lastly Wikileaks is exactly what it appears to be, there is no big psy op here, none.


Finally, I came here to warn some of you that there are posters on this forum who are spreading rightwing media filth that is largely and disgustingly anti-semitic on its face and they are using this fascist propaganda to try and destroy Mr. Assange and his child, Wikileaks, but to their surpirse, they are not succeeding because they are being taken out faster than they can get back up and running. This operation will not cease until Assange is a free man again and allowed to do what he does best and that is expose the lies, the corruption and the war crimes of the high and mighty.


We will prevail.


In time you will know what I speak is the truth, I dont need to give you proof now because the proof is on its way, its coming, be patient.

[Simulist]

I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend.

Whatever you say, Cupcake.

[DrVolin]

I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend. If we want information we will get it.

Well, I hope you have a Nishi trace buster. And a Nishi trace buster buster buster. Because it sounds pretty dangerous.

[Wombaticus Rex]

OH GOOD JOHN TITOR CAME THROUGH JUST IN TIME

[justdrew]

Incorrect, but I dont feel the need to demonstrate with anyone here, it isnt within the ethical guidelines we work with. We can confirm anything we want, I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend. If we want information we will get it.

Like I said I dont expect anyone here to believe me and thats ok, I will stick around and enjoy the discussion, but I am putting it on the record that I know for a fact that Mr. Assange is exactly who he claims to be and Wikileaks is exactly what it is. There is no intelligence agency behind it, they may be infiltrating it now, they may be hand feeding Mr. Assange information that benefits them and their objectives in the long run but I can assure you that Wikileaks and Mr Assange are legit and genuine.

I have no need to provide proof, the proof is in the pudding. You will see, stay tuned and keep watching, there is a lot more to come, this is only now getting started. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, I came here to state on the record that I KNOW FOR A FACT Mr. Assange is legit, his charges are being manufactured and stem from a honey pot operation he got caught up in after a few too many drinks, and, lastly Wikileaks is exactly what it appears to be, there is no big psy op here, none.

Finally, I came here to warn some of you that there are posters on this forum who are spreading rightwing media filth that is largely and disgustingly anti-semitic on its face and they are using this fascist propaganda to try and destroy Mr. Assange and his child, Wikileaks, but to their surpirse, they are not succeeding because they are being taken out faster than they can get back up and running. This operation will not cease until Assange is a free man again and allowed to do what he does best and that is expose the lies, the corruption and the war crimes of the high and mighty.

We will prevail.

In time you will know what I speak is the truth, I dont need to give you proof now because the proof is on its way, its coming, be patient.

did you type that on a mobile device by any chance?

Anyway, I hope you speak truly and I'll welcome an ambassador from the hordes of anonymous.

It does seem plausible that if they've got thousands of folks all over the world, there'd be enough manpower to do the legwork for a full scale background check.

[compared2what?]

Doctor, it sounds as if you're arguing against publishing secrets beacuse someone might get mad about it.

Karen Silkwood leaked something that made some people mad, and she paid for it. But it made a big difference in the end. So far, Wikileaks has leaked stuff that gives some people an excuse to be mad, but what difference will the leaks themselves make in the end, other than make us all pay for them?

If nothing positive is done and no changes for the better arise from the leaks, it won't be a failure on the part of Wikileaks' or Assange. It will be a failure of our society - of us. Their only job is to expose secrets. It's up to others to use that new information - to launch FOIA requests now that they have a better idea of what documents to ask for, to alter their vote or their allegiances, to hold their elected representatives to account for the lies they have told, and hopefully to mount prosecutions of any revealed criminals, where possible, somewhere down the line.

Will those things (especially prosecutions) ever happen? I dunno. But if they don't happen, it won't be Wikileaks' fault.

The Collateral Murder video, as an example, was like a stress-test being run on our civil society, our press, and our systems of military justice, to see if they're still functional, if they still work like they're supposed to. They don't. The total non-reaction, on all levels, to that widely disseminated primary evidence of blatant mass-murder is all that anyone needs to see to know that our society, in it's current form, is fucked. The results are in, and they're conclusive.

There are a lot of people out there who still need convincing of that, though, even if we've all known it for years, and Wikileaks is helping to convince them.

In my opinion.

I concur, reserving my right to the traditional lady's prerogative. And even if Wikileaks isn't helping to convince those people, the rest is still valid. So from my point of view, under any and all circumstances, Wikileaks is a proximate occasion for doing whatever I can to convince them that it's constructive to do.

Happily, that's not actually contingent on what anyone beyond my sphere of potential influence actually is, does, says or means. Which leaves me free to operate independently and according to my own judgment within the same set of objective limitations I rode in on.

The practical value of information in an open-market isn't a fixed-price commodity. It's worth what you make of it, and that's entirely up to you, whoever and wherever you are. Assuming that you have some access to a market that has a stock of some information. No single person acting alone ever starts out with more than that and his or her own natural abilities/disabilities anyway. Never has. In all of history.

The future is unwritten, in short. Why rush to put the pen in hands you don't control and can't see?



Or the planchette. Whatever, you knew what I meant.

[Fresno_Layshaft]

I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend.

Whatever you say, Cupcake.

Why are we being rude to this guy? Maybe he is from Anonymous. I think those dudes deserve our respect. They seem to be only people willing to stand up and take any meaningful action power in the current climate. I think it'd be great to have contributions from the Hacktivist community here.

[nathan28]

I work with people who do and I work with others who have done the research needed to absolutely confirm that Mr. Assange is who he says he is and Wikileaks is a grass roots organization with no funding or help from any intelligence agencies whether it be the CIA or Mossad.

That is clearly false, even on the face of it.

If WikiLeaks were in fact a secret, compartmentalized intelligence operation (and I am not claiming that it is, at this early date), then even certain intelligence officials who do not possess a need-to-know would be unable to confirm what you are saying or to rule all these things out, categorically.

Even if you do have some real knowledge (and I think this is increasingly doubtful), then you are wildly overstating your case.

You provide no proof for your claims — no proof whatsoever — in fact, all you appear to be able to provide is a weak (and very dubious) appeal to "some" authority.

...you're just going to have to take my word for it at this time...

No, actually. No one has to do that.

And at this point, those who might be so inclined are probably foolish.

Incorrect, but I dont feel the need to demonstrate with anyone here, it isnt within the ethical guidelines we work with. We can confirm anything we want, I dont think you understand the reach this group has my friend. If we want information we will get it.

Like I said I dont expect anyone here to believe me and thats ok, I will stick around and enjoy the discussion, but I am putting it on the record that I know for a fact that Mr. Assange is exactly who he claims me to and Wikileaks is exactly what it is. There is no intelligence agency behind it, they may be infiltrating it now, they may be hand feeding Mr. Assange information that benefits them and their objectives in the long run but I can assure you that Wikileaks and Mr Assange are legit and genuine.

That's all you need to say, then, really. Short of providing documentation we'll either take you at your word or reject it. Even if you did provide documentation, I can say that I for one would, given the history of this board, probably reject it. "HAI GUYS" posts, around here, have some of us reaching for our copies of the Malleus Maleficarum.

I can't speak for most here but do tend to believe you, to the extent you are an authority at all. I tend to think that WL is mostly what it claims to be, though I think there is an element of motivation beyond what's been said--particularly, see that email John Young published re: "fleecing" whoever was fleece-able. IOW: I don't think WL is a spook outfit, but can't verify the docs are legit--I do believe they are posted in good faith and the majority if not all are legit--and can't know of any ulterior contributing motives or their degree of significance re: the larger stated projects.

[nathan28]

OH GOOD JOHN TITOR CAME THROUGH JUST IN TIME

Now that is a party I don't want to miss. Any word on whether the Quantum Eggs will be showing up? I'm pretty sure one of those dudes owes me like 1/3 kg of mescaline.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Finally, I came here to warn some of you that there are posters on this forum who are spreading rightwing media filth that is largely and disgustingly anti-semitic on its face and they are using this fascist propaganda to try and destroy Mr. Assange and his child, Wikileaks, but to their surpirse, they are not succeeding because they are being taken out faster than they can get back up and running. This operation will not cease until Assange is a free man again and allowed to do what he does best and that is expose the lies, the corruption and the war crimes of the high and mighty.

I don't want to draw the wrath of Anonymous (I've enabled AdBlock Plus just in case ) but you'd be best not to suggest that posters here are deliberately arguing in bad faith, or serving an agenda other than their own. Accusing someone here of deliberately spreading disinfo, or "agent-baiting", is a bannable offence. But you probably know that, and if you're Anonymous I'm sure a ban wouldn't trouble you.

I'm not a mod, or even a senior member (we have no hierarchy here 'cos we're a team. A team that fights amongst itself all the time! Yeah! A family, in other words ) but I just want to let you know that there's no real point in warning people here about insidious hidden agendas or attempts at manipulation through information dispersal. It's what the whole thread is about.

And I hope you are not "taking out" people on the grounds that they question Wikileaks, however badly. That would be unethical. It would be a form of censorship, in fact, and none of us like that.

Anyways, dispense with the veiled threats and warnings. People here are mostly old and ugly enough to make up their own minds, which is the whole point of the forum.

Having said all that, if you really are a representative of Anonymous, even though you don't use the Royal "We", I wish you and yours all the best in defending Assange and Wikileaks, and in taking down those who actually oppose him.

Also, give us some inside info!

[compared2what?]

PS -- Thanks for your word(s), Hacktivist. I will take them into consideration while thinking for myself. And I'm sure you wouldn't want me to do otherwise, right?

Because you wouldn't be much of a hacktivist for open-source transparency and individual accountability if you did. So QED, end of story.

Oh! I'll also pledge to think of you when future events of which nobody does or can have certain knowledge transpire, thus doing what I can to make at least one of your predictions come true.

I mean this one:

In time you will know what I speak is the truth, I dont need to give you proof now because the proof is on its way, its coming, be patient.

Also, I mean all of the above in an amiable way. I can't really offer any proof of that, so I leave the decision to you. But fwiw, I'd at least prefer that you took my word for it than not.

Now back to topic. Or lounge. One or the other.

[justdrew]

The calculus of trust in the infoverse era is complex. Probably "don't bet more than you're willing to loose" and "always remember you're free to change your mind whenever" are good advice. As always, certainty is lacking. I'll conditionally accept the possibility, as long as some damn big windup doesn't follow.

It would be more credible to make a more specific claim, such as, "we've checked his background going all the way back, we find no trace of unknown outside manipulation or assistance."

[justdrew]

OH GOOD JOHN TITOR CAME THROUGH JUST IN TIME

Now that is a party I don't want to miss. Any word on whether the Quantum Eggs will be showing up? I'm pretty sure one of those dudes owes me like 1/3 kg of mescaline.

There's a new type of truly random quantum bitstream generator, 4MBit/sec random bit streams are available, Quantis it's called, it would be possible to build wildly "accurate" "high-resolution" eggs these days.