The Strawman Illusion

[Wombaticus Rex]

So I've had my inbox blowing up with this all week, I guess it's the new Zeitgeist since it's pretty much the same demographing sending me this.

Video link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 574871930#

The basic concept is that all your legal dealings are a legal fiction, a caps-lock proxy of who you are, and that proxy can be ended, thus freeing you from the US cycle of Maya. You will go from a Strawman to a Freeman. This is often referred to as the "Redemption" movement.


Now, I've been hearing about this my whole life because of gun show culture. My dad is an arms dealer of sorts and this material was big in the patriot community, I had lots of older guys with beer guts explain this to me when I was a youth (along with black helicopters, etc...I just realized I never mentioned being a militia baby here before). I thought it was bullshit then, and I think it's horseshit now, but I'm also a lot more willing to doubt my instincts in 2011.

Is there something to this? Now, there's obvious, uh...strawman arguments that could get made against it. I'm also more than a little bit amused by the fact that the guy who presents "The Strawman Illusion" video is a fucking Australian who is being taken as an expert on US law by American citizens.

But -- is there any meat to this? Is this technically true, but real world meaningless?

I get the sense when I talk to people who are "trying to take control of their Strawman" that they really think some court somewhere will recognize all this...give them a free pass, exempt them from paying taxes. Who are they really going to appeal to? I am reminded of the 9-11 Truth Movement expecting the perpetrators of the crime to somehow hold themselves responsible...who is going to hold the hearings? Who will actually do the investigation that's not somehow implicated in the crime?

Anyways, just wanted to open this can of worms and fish for feedback. What am I missing?

[eyeno]

What about the Freemen out in places like Vermont or Montana? From what I have read they drive around without a license and may supposedly have taken control over their strawmen. Is any of that true?

[Wombaticus Rex]

I definitely know people who have bookshelves full of William Cooper and Edward Griffin and call themselves Freemen, hoist an upside-down flag, and drive around without a license mostly on back roads because there's not a single state trooper who gives a shit about any of this. All the guys I grew up knowing who were into this stuff have been touched by the IRS and the ATF, so I'm pretty skeptical. I know a LOT about the upper half of my motherland and, no. Doesn't mean they don't exist, of course, just my $0.02.

Isn't Montana the state where bars have drive-thru shots and there's no speed limit? That sounds like a much more plausible setting for a real deal Freeman movement.

[justdrew]

so when the Grand Wizard gives them their courage they stop being Scarecrows?

sounds like typical American Man Insanity

[The Consul]

I definitely know people who have bookshelves full of William Cooper and Edward Griffin and call themselves Freemen, hoist an upside-down flag, and drive around without a license mostly on back roads because there's not a single state trooper who gives a shit about any of this. All the guys I grew up knowing who were into this stuff have been touched by the IRS and the ATF, so I'm pretty skeptical. I know a LOT about the upper half of my motherland and, no. Doesn't mean they don't exist, of course, just my $0.02.

Isn't Montana the state where bars have drive-thru shots and there's no speed limit? That sounds like a much more plausible setting for a real deal Freeman movement.

Montana now has a speed limit, they used to not have one during daylight hours. As far as bars go they have more restrictions now because of recognition of perils of drunk driving, but last time I was there I saw people drinking with their 3 year old kids sitting on the barplank. Barculture is also being replaced by quarter machines which turn common, functional alcoholics into broke desparados with what little they have of value piled up in pawn shops that didn't exist 15 years ago.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "upper half of my motherland"?

[Wombaticus Rex]

^Oh, right I didn't mention: Vermont. Burlington to NEK. My home turf but I'm in exile these days.

[barracuda]

BARRACUDA™ says:

I think you're gonna need some actual documented case law to back up these assertions, otherwise it boils down to "The Rothschilds Own Our Immortal Souls and Trade Them Like Topps Bubblegum Cards!", which is an idea I've heard now and again along with the "legally immune person" talk.

The reality is that none of these attempts to reclaim your identity and distance it from your ALL CAPS CORPORATE ENTITY have succeeded, and there is case law which demonstrates this, and which stands in opposition to anecdotes of the "tax protester" Freeman patriots.

The Wesley Snipes tax case is another example in which the ALL CAPS defense was tried and dismissed.

The idea that your corporate entity is traded on the New York Stock Exchange seems like it would be easy to verify. Try to look up your number and see what happens.

What I think is cool about all this is the way in which the TYPOGRAPHERS and ENGRAVERS who came up with these conventions (all-caps, security borders) seem to have inadvertently generated the basis for what amounts to a decades-old chain-letter. I suspect if you try this stuff in court, the judge is gonna roll his eyes, and then the whole thing will proceed "situation normal". And anyone who really considers the money we use to be a worthless piece of paper may pm me for a P.O. box number to send theirs to for inspection and assessment.

[Searcher08]

I dont know anything about it, but I am acutely aware of the distinction between whether the Strawman / Freeman distinction is true VS how the 'system' responds if a person's actions from that consideration activate the bigger 'memetic immune system'.

For example. the analogous situation regarding the need to pay income tax. When an extremely bright, highly principled and moral top IRS agent searches for and finds no law indicating one has to pay income tax... is one thing - acting on that finding is something different - and landed here four years in federal pen.
http://www.taxhelpattorney.com/videos/t ... ckson.html

[Joe Hillshoist]

I'm also more than a little bit amused by the fact that the guy who presents "The Strawman Illusion" video is a fucking Australian who is being taken as an expert on US law by American citizens.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.


Hey I did start listening to the video but the rain is so heavy at the moment that I can't really concentrate on it.

The basic concept is that all your legal dealings are a legal fiction, a caps-lock proxy of who you are, and that proxy can be ended, thus freeing you from the US cycle of Maya. You will go from a Strawman to a Freeman. This is often referred to as the "Redemption" movement.

All this stuff sounds great in theory, but like Searcher said, if the people with guns want something then they will try to get it. Thats what the militia movement is all about tho isn't it.

[justdrew]

I've also seen similar folks pushing the idea that some stop signs you don't have to stop at because they don't have some sticker on the back of them.

[tazmic]

The basic concept is that all your legal dealings are a legal fiction, a caps-lock proxy of who you are...

Then only the proxy has any legal power to act on the person, not the other way.

But I do like the idea of the Masons Running the World being such nerdy lawful evil bookkeepers that they will all go off into the woods in a grump when we discover that their game design has a logical inconsistency to it and that they weren't such great dungeon masters after all.

[DrVolin]

I've also seen similar folks pushing the idea that some stop signs you don't have to stop at because they don't have some sticker on the back of them.

That sounds like a fantastic case study for biocultural evolution. What gets selected out first, the belief, or the carriers?

[brainpanhandler]

The hidden admiralty law nautical language stuff is good fun.

"But of course we're all aboard that citizenSHIP again... "

I dunno. It's only slightly crazier than that the fictional legal entity of a corporation has the same rights under the constitution as a flesh and blood citizen.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I've also seen similar folks pushing the idea that some stop signs you don't have to stop at because they don't have some sticker on the back of them.

That sounds like a fantastic case study for biocultural evolution. What gets selected out first, the belief, or the carriers?

That depends on the "environmental" pressures.

If no one gets prosecuted for failing to stop then eventually people the behaviour could become "custom" and gain some greater standing in the eyes of the law. (Not necessarily much tho)

Tho of course if you start driving through stop signs without stopping on principle eventually other evolutionary pressures will be brought into play.

[nathan28]

The hidden admiralty law nautical language stuff is good fun.

"But of course we're all aboard that citizenSHIP again... "

I dunno. It's only slightly crazier than that the fictional legal entity of a corporation has the same rights under the constitution as a flesh and blood citizen.

The difference is that a Sup. Ct. opinion and hundreds of other courts since say corporations are legal persons. You know, that thing called "precedent", as opposed to "shit I made up for a paper I wrote for my diploma mill degree".