The Libya thread

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby DevilYouKnow » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:46 am

Libya's lucrative ties

As world leaders condemn violence against protesters, what is at stake for Western nations with close ties to Gaddafi?

hy did the UK government on Monday cancel eight arms export licences for Libya?

This comes after a warning from a legal adviser to the UN Commission on Human Rights who suggested that Britain may be found guilty of "complicity" for the killings of protesters by Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

In the third quarter of 2010 alone, according to the Campaign Against Arms trade, the UK licensed over $6mn worth of ammunition to Libya, including sniper rifles and crowd control ammunition, which is suspected to have been used by the regime to suppress demonstrators.

Although the UK has condemned the violent attacks on Libya's protesters, in the past it has turned a blind eye to the country's dubious human rights record for fear of risking lucrative oil, trade and arms deals.

On Tuesday we examine the relationship between the two countries with Sir Richard Dalton, the former British ambassador to Libya; Dr. Mohamed al-Magariaf, the co-founder of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya; and Hafed al-Ghwell, a Libyan-American analyst.

This episode of Riz Khan aired from Tuesday, February 22, 2011.


http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/rizkhan/2011/02/201122273958118658.html

Watching AJE, more Libyan diplomats distancing themselves from Gaddafi all the time now.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Jeff » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:55 am

Since they were immediately denied permission, and then chose to return to Libya rather than try Tunis or Lampedusa, I'd say it's unlikely these were defectors.

Wednesday, 23rd February 2011 - 16:01CET
Libyan aircraft turns back after being denied landing permission

A Libyan Arab Airlines ATR 42 turbo-prop aircraft is heading back to Libya after having been denied permission to land at Malta International Airport.

The aircraft flew unexpectedly to Malta and when queried about landing permission, the pilot gave details about a flight which was supposed to have come to Malta yesterday.

Landing permission was immediately denied and the aircraft then circled for some 20 minutes south of Malta while attempts were made for the decision to be reversed.

The pilot eventually decided to return home.

Soldiers of the AFM's 'A' Company were seen entering the airport when the aircraft approached Malta.

It is understood that the plane had been carrying 14 passengers.

Meanwhile soldiers are continuing to guard two Libyan Air Force Mirage F1 fighters whose pilots defected on Monday. The pilots are in custody.


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ion-at-mia

FWIW, this live blog says there are reports the plane was carrying the Lebanese wife of one of Gaddafi's sons and other family members.

[edit:] AJE now says the Maltese government has confirmed Gaddafi's daughter Ayesha, not a daughter-in-law, was on board.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby DevilYouKnow » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:09 pm

Yeah, Tunis is closer to Malta than any Libyan city, and AJE reported they had claimed to be low on gas.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:18 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:34 pm

Jeff wrote:
Plutonia wrote:Just now: Al Jabal Al Akhdar battalion defects and joins protesters


I apologize to the officers if I'm misreading their body language, but they look as though they've been scared shitless into doing the right thing. And that's more heartening right now than if their decision was born of conviction.
Agreed. I saw a report that Gaddafi had lit on fire a soldier who had refused to fire on protesters, so maybe that has something to do with it.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby justdrew » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:53 pm

Libyan city dubbed 'Free Benghazi' as anti-Gaddafi troops take control

• Guardian reporter enters country's second city
• Local doctors put massacre death toll at 230
• Rebel officers talk of army revolt against mercenaries

Libya's second city, Benghazi, appears to have fallen beyond the control of Muammar Gaddafi, with the local military defying his regime and monarchy-era flags flying from government buildings.

As the first foreign news organisation to report from so-called Free Benghazi, the Guardian witnessed defecting troops pouring into the courtyard of a ransacked police station carrying tonnes of weaponry and ammunition looted from a military armoury to stop it being seized by forces loyal to the Libyan dictator.

Soldiers brought rockets and heavy weapons which had been used in an assault on citizens in central Benghazi on Saturday as Gaddafi tried to keep control of the city. Doctors in Benghazi said that at least 230 people were killed, with a further 30 critically injured.

There was also the clearest confirmation yet that Gaddafi's regime used outside mercenaries to try to suppress the rebellion. Adjoining the police station a large crowd gathered in another courtyard. Upstairs, the Guardian saw a number of mercenaries, allegedly flown in the previous week, being interrogated by lawyers and army officials.

An air force officer, Major Rajib Faytouni, said he personally witnessed up to 4,000 mercenaries arrive on Libyan transport planes over a period of three days starting from 14 February. He said: "That's why we turned against the government. That and the fact there was an order to use planes to attack the people."

Numerous witnesses in Benghazi have said that while artillery was used against citizens, air force planes did not fire on them here. They did, however, according to Faytouni, drop two bombs inside the Rajma military base to stop weapons falling into the hands of anti-government forces.

"The two colonels who defected in MiGs had refused orders to bomb the people," he said, referring to a pair of air force officers who fled to Malta in their jets on Monday. He added: "There were also two helicopters that flew to Tunis."

All around Benghazi there were indications that Gaddafi has lost control of the city. The military is no longer operating checkpoints, which are now manned only by a handful of traffic police. Every physical sign of the dictator has been taken down or burned. While there has been no violence in the past two days, angry demonstrators are driving through city firing Kalashnikov rifles into the air and demanding Gaddafi cede control and leave the country.

The former Libyan flag, dating from the reign of the monarch ousted by Gaddafi, King Idris, is flying above ransacked government buildings on the waterfront. Off the coast, several passenger ferries wait in storm-tossed seas to pick up foreign nationals being evacuated. The UK government has announced that a Royal Navy warship, HMS Cumberland, will be moved to wait off the Libyan coast, but no military ships could be seen.
Burning buildings at the entrance to a security forces compound in Benghazi, Libya Burning buildings at the entrance to a security forces compound in Benghazi, Libya Photograph: Alaguri/AP

Military checkpoints between Benghazi and Egypti to the east are now manned only by armed militias.

Earlier the UN security council passed a unanimous statement calling for an immediate end to the violence in Libya and demanding that Gaddafi live up to his responsibilities to protect his own people.

The 15 council members said they condemned the violence and repression of peaceful demonstrators after the Libyan dictator issued his defiance of the international community on Tuesday.

The statement called for the immediate lifting of restrictions on all forms of the media and for the safety of foreign nationals to be ensured.

Libya's deputy ambassador to the UN, Ibrahim al-Dabashi, who has joined a number of Libyan diplomats in defecting from the Gaddafi regime, said the security council's position did not go far enough. "It is not strong enough but any message to the Libyan government at this stage is good."

Dabashi said he had received reports that "genocide" had begun in the west of the country, with ground attacks occurring from Libyan forces working alongside "mercenaries from many African countries".
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Nordic » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:56 pm

I just wanted to say "thanks everybody" for all the recent posts here. This is now, as far as I can tell, the best news source on the Libyan situation!

I was just trolling around my usual sites looking for info, then came here, and viola!
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Jeff » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:04 pm

Mugabe dispatches Commandos to protect Gaddafi

23 February, 2011 02:54:00

HARARE – There are unconfirmed reports doing the rounds in Zimbabwe State intelligence circles saying President Robert Mugabe has sent troops from his Commando crack unit to Libya to save his long time ally and financier Colonel Muammaur Gaddafi.

The accuracy of these allegations have not been not been verified but plausible bags of evidence based on the relationship between the two leaders are hugely backing the reports.

Libya’s ambassador to India, who resigned following a crackdown on protests, told Reuters on Tuesday that African mercenaries were being used by the authorities, prompting some army troops to switch sides to the opposition.

In Harare the rumour mill in the intelligence and military circles said a chartered Russian aircraft flew into Harare on Monday evening and left for Libya early Tuesday morning carrying troops from the crack Commando Unit.

...


http://www.thezimbabwemail.com/zimbabwe/7397.html
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby DevilYouKnow » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:05 pm

From AJE's live blog:

6.30pm: Former justice minister Mustapha Abdeljalil told the Swedish newspaper Expressen that Muammar Gaddafi personally ordered the Lockerbie bombing in 1988, the paper reported on its website.

"I have proof that Gaddafi gave the order on Lockerbie," said the minister, who stepped down Monday to protest the ongoing violence in Libya.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby tazmic » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:07 pm

"Unlike in Egypt or Tunisia, it is not the conventional military that holds the balance of power in Libya.

Instead, it is a murky network of paramilitary brigades, "revolutionary committees" of trusted followers, tribal leaders and imported foreign mercenaries.

The actual Libyan Army is almost symbolic, a weakened and emaciated force of little more than 40,000, poorly armed and poorly trained. It is part of Col Muammar Gaddafi's long-term strategy to eliminate the risk of a military coup, which is how he himself came to power in 1969...."

Libya: Who is propping up Gaddafi?
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:46 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Nordic » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:03 pm

OK, now you guys are slacking and I'm gonna have to pitch in:

This is horrible, it's now being reported that 10,000 people may have been slaughtered by Qadaffi's troops:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gaddaf ... ng-10000-n



Gaddafi Son Says Army Will Protect Oil Infrastructure, Blames Al-Qaeda For Carpet Bombing As 10,000 Now Reported Dead


Perhaps this great humanitarian can then explain why according to Al Arabia the bodybag count in Libya has now surpassed 10,000:

There are at least 10,000 dead and 50,000 wounded in Libya, according to reports by Al Arabiya on Twitter quoting a member of the International Criminal Court. The death toll was reportd by the Libyan member of the ICC, Sayed al Shanuka, who was interviewed from Paris. The official figures provided by the Libyan government yesterday indicated 300 dead, while this morning Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini stated that he believed more in the death of ''more than 1,000 innocents".


http://www.ansamed.info/en/libia/news/ME.XEF93179.html


LIBYA, AL ARABIYA REPORTS 10,000 DEAD
23 FEBRUARY , 18:01

(ANSAmed)- ROME - There are at least 10,000 dead and 50,000 wounded in Libya, according to reports by Al Arabiya on Twitter quoting a member of the International Criminal Court. The death toll was reportd by the Libyan member of the ICC, Sayed al Shanuka, who was interviewed from Paris. The official figures provided by the Libyan government yesterday indicated 300 dead, while this morning Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini stated that he believed more in the death of ''more than 1,000 innocents".

After last night's speech on television by Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, who stated that "I will resist until my death", tension emerged today in Libya while foreigners flee and power supplies to Europe are being shut down. The government still controls Tripoli, but has now lost Cyrenaica. This morning Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini mentioned ''civil war'' between ''death units and squads'' and accused Gaddafi of ''horrible bloodshed'', asking him to stop. Even the Italian government, which the opposition accused of not having spoken about Gaddafi's repression, is now attacking the Libyan leader.

Frattini added that, in its relations with Libya, in the past Italy ''did what it needed to do'', but ''there is a limit and in light of what is happening we cannot but make our voice heard". MALTA SOURCES, AISHA GADDAFI ON REJECTED AIRCRAFT - Aisha Gheddafi, daughter of the Libyan leader, was among the 14 people on board a Libyan airplane that was prevented from landing in Malta today. The report was made by sources close to the Maltese government.(ANSAmed).


God I really hope that's not true.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:18 pm

Interventionists Target Libya
It's their only hope of salvaging our Middle East empire

by Justin Raimondo, February 23, 2011

Outside of an asylum, is there anybody nuttier than Moammar Qadaffy? Well, yes: Marc Lynch, associate professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University – and non-resident smarty-pants at the Center for a New American Hegemony Security – who blogs at ForeignPolicy.com, where he writes:

“The unfolding situation in Libya has been horrible to behold. No matter how many times we warn that dictators will do what they must to stay in power, it is still shocking to see the images of brutalized civilians which have been flooding al-Jazeera and circulating on the internet. We should not be fooled by Libya’s geographic proximity to Egypt and Tunisia, or guided by the debates over how the United States could best help a peaceful protest movement achieve democratic change. The appropriate comparison is Bosnia or Kosovo, or even Rwanda where a massacre is unfolding on live television and the world is challenged to act. It is time for the United States, NATO, the United Nations and the Arab League to act forcefully to try to prevent the already bloody situation from degenerating into something much worse.”

This may seem like a crazy idea, an off-the-wall suggestion made in the heat of the moment. But when you think about it – and witness how widespread such sentiment is amongst our assembled “experts” and professional know-it-alls – you realize such a call to intervene was inevitable. It was only a matter of time before the War Party would find an excuse to intervene in the Middle Eastern upsurge, and make it all about us. We are, after all, a nation – nay, an empire – of narcissists, and so the pertinent question is: what can we do? What must we do? Benghazi is burning – don’t we have a moral obligation to preen on the world stage as we put the fire out?

Qadaffy would like nothing better. His poorly translated speech is being described as “surreal,” and “rambling,” and indeed it may have been both, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t or couldn’t be effective in a Libyan context. In that speech, standing in front of the bombed out ruin of a building that stands as a monument to Reagan’s 1986 bombing, he directly addressed the rebels:

“You people with big beards when this was happening, when 170 planes were bombing — where were you? You were bowing to your master, America. We fought back against the tyranny of America, we were resilient.”

The specter of American intervention is just what Dr. Qaddafy ordered: it would play right into his hands. As is so often the case with government action, both at home and abroad, it would have exactly the opposite of its intended effect. Yet we have been through this so many times that I find it hard if not impossible to believe an associate professor of political science and international affairs has failed to assimilate this lesson – especially in the case of an alleged “expert” on the Arab world. Can Professor Lynch really believe a “forceful” intervention – starting with a “no fly zone” – won’t buttress Qadaffy’s position?

The wily old dictator hasn’t managed to stay in power for 41 years by sheer chance: he knows how to appeal to the passions and prejudices of his people, and his strategy is clearly to divide the country along generational lines – rather like the Nixon-Agnew strategy during the Vietnam era. Like the Nixonians, the Qadaffyites are pointing to those crazed youths running rampant in the streets as influenced by the twin poisons of drugs – “You rats were given pills!” – and radical ideology, which is what the reference to “you people with big beards” is all about. Like our own neoconservatives, and the Glenn Beck crowd, the daffy dictator is raising the specter of the dreaded Muslim Brotherhood as the real author of the Arab upsurge. In the Nixon years, it was communism that was the Great Bogeyman: today, it is Islamism – or, in the case of the hardcore neocons, Islam per se.

In the face of a signal event such as the Arab Awakening, the real political alignments and dividing lines suddenly become visible, like lightning at midnight. On one side of the divide, we have Moammar Qaddafy, Glenn Beck, Hosni Mubarak, David Horowitz, King Hamad of Bahrain, and most of the writers for National Review, who think it’s all an infernal plot hatched by Islamist radicals. On the other hand, we have the overwhelming majority of the peoples of the Middle East, who yearn to be free – and the overwhelming majority of Americans, who sympathize with their plight.

Intervention by the West would strengthen Qaddafy – possibly even saving him from a well-deserved end – and give ammunition to the marginal Islamist element sympathetic to al-Qaeda. Both would be confirmed in their worldview: see, Qadaffy would say, the foreigners are coming to take over your country. See, the Islamists would aver, the Crusaders are coming to take away your revolution.

The interventionists are running the concept of a “no fly zone” up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes. But the reality is that this would be merely a prelude to full-scale intervention by the NATO nations, principally the US, with the UN imprimatur added on as an afterthought. Lynch compares this to the US intervention in Kosovo – a “humanitarian” intervention that ended with the establishment of a gangster “state” whose “President” is a big-time Mafia chieftain and accused organ thief! And, yes, there are still US troops in that country, and a substantial albeit diminishing European contingent. Once the West intervenes in Libya, it will be a good decade or so before they get out – if they aren’t chased out first.

Lynch tells us how “shocking” it is “to see the images of brutalized civilians,” but Al Jazeera has been regularly broadcasting far worse images of civilians brutalized by the American bombing of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan – is Professor Lynch not equally shocked? Is he calling for “humanitarian” intervention to stop the Americans from massacring defenseless people? Of course not.

Oh, but don’t worry, says Lynch, this isn’t “an imperialist venture.” Why isn’t it? Well, just because it isn’t: because it’s an “emergency,” and we have to take action “before it’s too late.”

It’s always an emergency, isn’t it? There’s always some overriding imperative – strategic, economic, moral – that compels us to “act,” i.e. call out the Marines. Yet the timing of this is just a tad more than suspicious: at the very moment when the Arab world is rising up and throwing off its chains – chains forged in the furnace of Western colonialism and imperialism – the self-appointed Saviors of the World are riding in on their white horses, ready to “guide” the revolutionary upsurge to a more manageable conclusion. And it just so happens that Libya is rich in oil: news of the recent troubles caused oil prices to reach their highest point in two years. Like common thieves targeting a drunk, Western political leaders smell a bonanza – and are ready to pounce.

None other than Paul Wolfowitz, one of the authors of the Iraq debacle, demands “urgent action,” and Danielle Pletka, chairman of Ahmed Chalabi’s American fan club and a big wheel over at the American Enterprise Institute, fumes:

“Have they convened an emergency Security Council meeting? Have they demanded Qadhafi step down? Have they frozen Qadhafi and sons’ assets or called on others to do so? Have they imposed any economic measures? Have they done anything except wait all day and issue a comment at 5 pm? There are no easy answers, but there are clearly wrong things to do and among them is ‘just sit there.’”

Pletka and her fellow neocons can’t live in a world where we “just sit there” while others determine the course of events – and determine their own destiny. A world in which the United States isn’t the Prime Mover is, for them, a nightmare universe – and they’ve been living that nightmare since January, when Tunisia and then Egypt had their lids blown off. Two major American allies in the Middle East inside of less than two months – how could the Empire survive such a humiliation? Libya is their big chance to intervene and save face.

Of course, “moderates” like Professor Lynch will soon be outdistanced by crackpots like Cliff May, of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, who has declared he’d “go further and tell the Libyan armed forces that the West will bomb their airfields if they continue to slaughter their people. Arming the demonstrators also cannot be ruled out. The Libyan government is already blaming the protests on foreign help, and the protesters are facing a life or death struggle. The worst policy would be to encourage the demonstrators without giving them the tools to prevail.”

May’s was one of the loudest voices warning that the Egyptian revolution could well be a Muslim Brotherhood front – now he wants us to bomb Libyan airfields and give the rebels “the tools to prevail.” Should we bomb Bahrain’s airfields after the king’s security forces – imported from Saudi Arabia – slaughtered his own citizens in the capital’s main square? I don’t think the FDD believes that. Michael Ledeen, their foreign policy guru, certainly doesn’t.On their web site, FDD approvingly cites Amir Taheri, who writes;

“In Bahrain, Tehran hopes to see its allies sweep to power through mass demonstrations and terrorist operations. Bahrain’s ruling clan has arrested scores of pro-Iran militants but appears more vulnerable than ever. King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa has contacted Arab heads of states to appeal for “urgent support in the face of naked threats,” according to the Bahraini media.”

King Hamad and Hosni Mubarak – good: Qadaffy (and Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad) – bad. This kind of moral calculus is determined by the degree of the dictator’s complicity with American (and Israeli) plans for the region.

The War Party hopes to make lemonade out of the enormous lemon handed to them by the youthful revolutionaries of the Middle East – and an alliance of neocons and liberal “humanitarian” interventionists will make it happen if and when it does.

US intervention in Libya would short-circuit the Libyan revolution, prolong Qadaffy’s inglorious career, and lead to more and not less anti-Americanism even in the short run. It would, in brief, be a disaster – just the sort of blunder that could suck us into yet another quagmire from which there is no early release.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:16 pm

Gaddafi’s helicopters transporting Foreign Mercenaries to Fashloom, Tripoli
Posted on February 23, 2011 by v1d

Gaddafi’s son Khamees is transporting mercenaries from a military base in the town of Tajura (20 km east of Tripoli). The mercenaries come from many African countries such as Chad, Guinea, Niger, Somalia, Ethiopia, Mauritania, and Sudan to crush the Libyan citizens’ resistance to Gaddafi’s brutal dictatorship. The narrator says (translated from Libyan-Arabic): “These planes are going to Fashloom. The planes are coming now (a reference made to the attention of Al-Jazeera)… They are going to crush our Libyan sons. This is the second squadron that passed by. These (helicopters) are filled with mercenaries. They came from Khamees’ (one of Gaddafi’s sons) battalion in Tajura.”

Reports say some west African newspapers advertise “Men Wanted for Tough Tasks”. Under the general guise of ‘hard work’, the West African mercenaries to travel to Libya to fight and kill the Libyan citizens. The foreign African mercenaries are promised payment of $2,000 per day. Al-Jazeera reported that approximately 150,000 foreign African mercenaries are present in Libya. As of February 23, 2011, it is estimated that 50,000 mercenaries are present in Tripoli under the leadership of Gaddafi’s several sons’ private battalions. This continues to happen while world governments permit it.

[video at link]
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:21 pm

1500 young men discovered in underground room
Posted on February 23, 20

[audio statement at link]

Translation:

Jazeera, I want to deliver this information, I confirmed it personally, on my responsibility. I am a Libyan citizen. Today in Benghazi they discovered a room underground, a room that is completely locked-in. Completely locked. Holding 1500 young men from Benghazi. From the 15th of February the first day of demonstrations to today when they got them out, the 22nd, they had been without food or water. They heard the voices from the barracks, noise, people. After they went to check, they got them out, God be praised, alive. 1500 young men, buried alive, buried alive. Muammar must be obliterated. We will not surrender. Our dead are in heaven, he is in hell. God bear witness that I have delivered this message, if there are any Muslims. God willing.

Translated by: @tasnimq

Via Alive in Libya
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