Stephen Morgan

[barracuda]

I don't know about asking everyone for input.. do you think it might go much the same way as the misogyny thread? I like the idea of building consensus but I think that the people who have really strong emotional investments either way might end up more pissed off and then sides might get chosen. Just throwing that out there. I don't have a crystal ball.

I agree, bad idea. Just happen to be at a loss for a good one at the moment.

I'm not sure if this helps, but I graduated from Women's Studies @ Queen's University, 2003. The history of the oppression of women is quite well documented using primary sources. I'm not holding myself up as any sort of expert though, don't get me wrong but it simply is NOT the case that 'there were only ever two women killed for witchcraft' or that 'domestic violence was never legal.'

Ooo, yes, that does help. I happily defer to your expertise in the matter.

[Canadian_watcher]

oh no you didn't!
<--- not an expert. no expertise. that being said, I'm glad my degree will finally have *some* use.

[Jeff]

Working with this

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.

as a template, what we could we whip up that would be meaningful, enforceable and non-cludgy?

This is an anti-sexist board.... and so on.

[barracuda]

Okay, first off, definitely a new stand-alone topic in the Posting Guidelines subforum, called...

-Gender and sexism?

-Women's History Revisionism?

-Misogynism and Feminist Revisionism?

-Sufferagettes & Sexism? (sorry, that's a punk band name)

-Hate Speech and Gender Issues?

...or maybe some Robert Ludlumesque construction, e.g., The Morgan Disability.

[barracuda]

oh no you didn't!

Dang it! Busted.

Er, well, you can't blame a guy for trying.

[Canadian_watcher]

I see I'm an early bird amongst night owls.
I'll try and dream up a suggestion over the next seven hours or so.

this is good. thanks for this you two.

[Jeff]

How about something like this:

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of women, and all races, is respected. Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

[Canadian_watcher]

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people, are respected. Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

that's my suggested change.

In my fantasy world we would tag on "no matter how voluminous a set of statistics you think you have to prove your case"

[barracuda]

"it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values"

Listen, I'm not even sure what that means. I think we need to be very specific about the kind of speech we aren't going to permit, such as revisionist histories of women's oppression. Let's not go out of our way to create a generic standard for a particular problem.

We correctly assume that women, as a group, have been and continue to be the object of oppression based upon their gender. That is the baseline of the objections here, no? We ought to be clear.

[Jeff]

Right.

How about specifically prohibiting the charge that feminism is a NWO conspiracy.

[Canadian_watcher]

well yeah, barracuda has a point about the "re-fighting" thing. I admit to being a little reserved with my opinions at this point (newb), but I agree that that is a little vague.

I've been reading about the challenges of combating revisionist history versus evolving history. There's some instruction to be taken from that in the study of how Holocaust deniers work, etc.

The clearest explanation of how historical revisionism works & what the dangers are is, unfortunately, in a holocaust denier's review of a book which deconstructs the deniers' arguments. Here: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p353_Weber.html

And interview with the author of the book is here: http://jta.org/news/article/2009/04/19/1004269/denying-the-deniers-q-a-with-deborah-lipstadt

both are long and I didn't read them start to finish. They're food for thought on how to guard against it here, though.

[Canadian_watcher]

I think there's ample evidence that Morgan has engaged in hate speech at this point. I really do.

Today I've felt a bit shaky - weak-kneed - I don't have it in me to battle him. Barracuda, you've been doing such an excellent job of it, but should the women of this board have to do that sort of thing every time they want to mention something that has to do with women's right?

Is this defeat on my part? I don't know.. is giving up on solving a puzzle when pieces are missing considered defeat?

And to top it off I feel like now I can't just out and out tell people to lay off me because that might have a chilling effect on the board.

I'm going to stay away from here for a few days, if that's okay?

[barracuda]

Welcome to the moderator team, CW!

[Canadian_watcher]

he he.. thanks!
I'll regroup. -- okay maybe it won't take a few days.. but just in case.

see ya fer now, fellers

[Jeff]

Edited the posting guidelines, and broken out the change under a separate topic of "Gender and Sexism." Thanks all for your input. Let me know if you'd like to tweak it, and then I'll post it in General Discussion.

Welcome to the RI board.

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected. Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.

This is an anti-sexist board. We correctly assume that women, as a group, have been and continue to be the object of oppression based upon their gender. It is expected that members will respect the rights of women to justice and equality in all spheres of life, and to a positive experience of RI. Contending that feminism is a "New World Order plot" will not be permitted.

Posts advocating violence, or espousing hatred of a people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality, are not permitted.

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.

Members can help maintain the health of the board. If you see something that you think needs attention, please pm myself or a moderator with the link, or use the alert button.

Thank you for your civil and thoughtful contributions, and your cooperation in helping to generate more light than heat.

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