don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick joke

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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby American Dream » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:21 am

Here's another article on Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic:


http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010 ... n_epidemic
TUESDAY, APR 27, 2010 20:20 ET
"Anatomy of an Epidemic": The hidden damage of psychiatric drugs
An award-winning science reporter looks at the history of mental illness in America -- with disturbing results
BY JED LIPINSKI

Image


In the past few months, the perennial controversy over psychiatric drug use has been growing considerably more heated. A January study showed a negligible difference between antidepressants and placebos in treating all but the severest cases of depression. The study became the subject of a Newsweek cover story, and the value of psychiatric drugs has recently been debated in the pages of the New Yorker, the New York Times and Salon. Many doctors and patients fiercely defend psychiatric drugs and their ability to improve lives. But others claim their popularity is a warning sign of a dangerously over-medicated culture.

The timing of Robert Whitaker’s "Anatomy of an Epidemic," a comprehensive and highly readable history of psychiatry in the United States, couldn’t be better. An acclaimed mental health journalist and winner of a George Polk Award for his reporting on the psychiatric field, Whitaker draws on 50 years of literature and in-person interviews with patients to answer a simple question: If "wonder drugs" like Prozac are really helping people, why has the number of Americans on government disability due to mental illness skyrocketed from 1.25 million in 1987 to over 4 million today?

"Anatomy of an Epidemic" is the first book to investigate the long-term outcomes of patients treated with psychiatric drugs, and Whitaker finds that, overall, the drugs may be doing more harm than good. Adhering to studies published in prominent medical journals, he argues that, over time, patients with schizophrenia do better off medication than on it. Children who take stimulants for ADHD, he writes, are more likely to suffer from mania and bipolar disorder than those who go unmedicated. Intended to challenge the conventional wisdom about psychiatric drugs, "Anatomy" is sure to provoke a hot-tempered response, especially from those inside the psychiatric community.

Salon spoke with Robert Whitaker over the phone about the reasons behind the pharmaceutical revolution, how "anxiety" became rebranded as "depression," and what he thinks psychiatrists are hiding from the American public.

Psychiatric drug use is a notoriously tough subject for writers, because of all the contradictory research. Why wade into it?

In 1998, I was writing a series for the Boston Globe on abuse of psychiatric patients in research settings. I came across the World Health Organization’s outcomes study for schizophrenia patients, and found that outcomes were better for poor countries of the world -- like India, Colombia, Nigeria -- than for the rich countries. And I was startled to find that only a small percentage of patients in those countries were medicated. I also discovered that the number of people on disability for mental illness in this country has tripled over the last 20 years.

If our psychiatric drugs are effective at preventing mental illness, I thought, why are we getting so many people unable to work? I felt we needed to look at long-term outcomes and ask: What does the evidence show? Are we improving long-term outcomes or not?

But you claim in the book that psychiatrists have long known that these drugs can cause harm.

In the late 1970s, Jonathan Cole -- the father of American psychopharmacology -- wrote a paper called "Is the Cure Worse Than the Disease?" that signaled that antipsychotics weren't the lifesaving drugs that people had hoped. In it, he reviewed all of the long-term harm the drugs could cause and observed that studies had shown that at least 50 percent of all schizophrenia patients could fare well without the drugs. He wrote, "Every schizophrenic outpatient maintained on antipsychotic medication should have the benefit of an adequate trial without drugs." This would save many from the dangers of tardive dyskinesia -- involuntary body movements -- as well as the financial and social burdens of prolonged drug therapy. The title of the paper poignantly sums up the awful long-term paradox.

Why didn't this change people's minds about psychiatric drugs?

Psychiatry essentially shut off any further public discussion of this sort. And there’s a reason for this. In the 1970s, psychiatry felt that it was in a fight for its survival. Its two prominent classes of drugs -- antipsychotics, and benzodiazepines like Valium -- were coming to be seen as problematic and even harmful, and sales of these drugs declined. At the same time, there’d been an explosion in the number of counselors and psychologists offering other forms of non-drug therapy.

Psychiatry saw itself in competition for patients with these other therapists, and in the late 1970s, the field realized that its advantage in the marketplace was its prescribing powers. Thus the field consciously sought to tell a public story that would support the use of its medications, and embraced the "medical model" of psychiatric disorders. This took off with the publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders III in 1980, which introduced many new classes of “treatable” disorders.

In a recent New Yorker article, Louis Menand suggested that anxiety drugs were rebranded as antidepressants in the '80s, because anxiety drugs had acquired a bad name. Is that really true?

Depression and anxiety are pretty closely linked. Before benzodiapenes came out, the discomfort that younger people and working people felt was seen as anxiety, by and large. Depression was seen as less common, a disease among the middle-aged and older. It was this deep thing, where people are putting their heads in their hands and can’t move. But when the benzodiazepines were proven to be addictive and harmful, the pharmaceutical companies said, in essence, "We have this market of people who feel discomfort in their lives, which we used to call anxiety. If we can rebrand it as depression, then we can bring a new antidepressant to market." It was a reconceptualization of discomfort, and it opened up the giant market for antidepressants as we see today.

And yet many studies have shown that antidepressants can treat depression, especially in severe cases.

In severe cases, you do see that people benefit from antidepressants, and that shows up consistently. But you still have to raise the question, even in that severe group: What happens to those medicated patients in the long term, compared to what happened in previous times? One thing that surprised me, looking at the epidemiological literature from the pre-antidepressant era, is that even severely depressed, hospitalized patients could with time expect to get well, and most did. Today, however, there’s a high incidence of patients on long-term drug therapy that become chronically ill.

What about stimulants used to treat ADHD. How effective are they?

These stimulants alter behavior in a way that teachers can appreciate. They subdue finger-tapping and disruptive symptoms. But in the 1990s, the National Institute of Mental Health started looking to see if things like Ritalin were benefiting kids with ADHD, and to this day they have no evidence that this drug treatment improves long-term functioning in any domain -- the ADHD symptoms, lower delinquency rates, better performance at school, et cetera. Then the NIMH studied whether these drugs provide a long-term benefit, and they found that after three years, being on medication is actually a marker of deterioration. Some patients’ growth has been stunted, their ADHD symptoms have worsened. William Pelham, from the State University of New York at Buffalo and one of the principal investigators in that study, said, "We need to confess to parents that we’ve found no benefit." None. And we think that with drugs, the benefits should outweigh the risks.

What's so risky about Ritalin?

For one, a significant percentage -- between 10 and 25 percent -- of kids prescribed medication for ADHD will have a manic episode or psychotic episode and deteriorate in such a way that they’re diagnosed with bipolar disorder. A similar study in 2000 on pediatric bipolar disorder reported that 84 percent of the children treated for bipolar illness -- at the Luci Bini Mood Disorders Clinic in New York -- had been previously exposed to psychiatric medications. The author, Gianni Faeda, wrote, "Strikingly, in fewer than 10 percent of the cases was diagnosis of bipolar disorder considered initially." The reality is that until children were medicated with stimulants and antidepressants, you didn't see juvenile bipolar mania.

But if these studies are so groundbreaking, why have they gone unreported in the media?

Because the NIMH didn’t announce it. Just as they didn’t announce the 2007 outcome study for schizophrenia patients. In that study, the recovery rate was 40 percent for those off meds, but only 5 percent for those on meds. I checked all the NIMH press releases for 2007, and found no release on this study. I found no announcement of it in any American Psychiatric Association publication or textbook. Not a single newspaper published an account of the study. And that’s because the psychiatric establishment -- the NIMH, the APA, even the National Alliance on Mental Illness, an advocacy organization -- did not put out any press release about it or try to alert the media in any way.

Are you suggesting that psychiatrists are beholden to pharmaceutical companies?

Not exactly, although most of the leading academic psychiatrists act as consultants, advisors and speakers for them. The problem is that psychiatry, starting in 1980 with the publication of the DSM-III, decided to tell the public that psychiatric disorders were biological ailments, and that its drugs were safe and effective treatments for those ailments. If it suddenly announces to the public that a long-term NIMH-funded study found that the 15-year recovery rate for schizophrenia patients was 40 percent for those off meds and 5 percent for those on meds, then that story begins to fall apart. By not reporting the results, psychiatry maintains the image of its drugs in the public mind, and the value of psychiatrists in today’s therapy marketplace.

So do you think psychiatric drugs should be used at all?

I think they should be used in a selective, cautious manner. It should be understood that they’re not fixing any chemical imbalances. And honestly, they should be used on a short-term basis. But beyond this, I think we should look at programs that are getting very good results. This is what I love about Keropudas Hospital’s program in Finland. They have 20 years of great results treating newly psychotic patients. They see if patients can get better without the use of meds, and if they can’t, then they try them. It’s a best-use model, not a no-use or anti-med model. It fits with our studies done in the 1970s that found if you use this model, you get better outcomes, and a good number of people get better and go on with their lives.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby American Dream » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:25 am

Also, I should mention that anyone who is interested can find most of the above-mentioned book from Whitaker book available online for free here.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:08 am

American Dream wrote:Also, I should mention that anyone who is interested can find most of the above-mentioned book from Whitaker book available online for free here.



Thanks for that, A_D - I it clear and cogent - sounds worth reading the book.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:53 pm

    When accepting a statement as true, there are two basic methods. The first is reason. It is when the known evidence points to the statement being true, and when the truth of the statement doesn't contradict other knowledge. The second is faith. It is when one accepts a statement as true without evidence for it, or in the face of evidence against it.

    There's a lot of confusion about what exactly faith is. Many people confuse belief with faith. It's said that if you believe something, you must be taking it on faith. This is a denial of the fundamental distinction between reason and faith. It pretends that evidence for or against an idea is irrelevant.

    The result of using faith consistently is the complete inability to think. Without any criteria for accepting a statement as true, every random idea, whether true or false, would be just as likely to be accepted. Contradictions would exist. No higher level abstractions could be made. Faith nullifies the mind. To the degree ideas are taken on faith, the process of thinking is subverted.

    Are there any ideas we take on faith? As a friend once asked, if we've never been to Afghanistan, how do we know it actually exists? Even if we were to meet people from Afghanistan, they could always be lying. This is taken to be an act of faith, since we have no direct evidence for the existence of Afghanistan.

    This is mistaken, though. The evidence we have for accepting the existence of Afghanistan does exists. The evidence is based on the knowledge that other people have shared. First, there is universal acceptance of the fact that it exists. It is possible that everyone on the planet is lying, but there is no evidence for that claim. Also, there is reason to believe that if Afghanistan didn't exist, people from the bordering countries would say so. And since satellite imagery shows that there is land there, and the area around it is occupied, it is reasonable to assume that land is occupied as well. Furthermore, there is absolutely no known evidence that it doesn't exist. There is no known motive for the entire world to try to trick us. So in fact, the evidence we have suggest it does exist. Acceptance of it is an act of reason.

    There's an important distinction here, though. When we accept the evidence from others, we must have reason to believe that they know the truth. In the case of Afghanistan, I mentioned bordering countries. But there are people who claim to have been there, or that lived there.

    Other cases are fundamentally different. When someone claims to have supernatural knowledge, or the ability to gain knowledge in a way that you are unable to, their claims cannot be considered valid. If someone claims to be able to speak to their god, and tells you what god demands, you have no reason to accept it as true. In fact, it should be rejected. If he claims to have knowledge which you are incapable of achieving, his beliefs must be rejected. If one has to accept the knowledge of others, he must use reason in order to decide which others to listen to. Again, if there is no evidence or contrary evidence for accepting a person's beliefs, it is not an act of reason. It is an act of faith.

    Faith is an act of mental destruction. If there is no evidence for a claim, then accepting it is irrational. It is more likely to be false then true (since there are more false ideas then true ones, being that their is only one reality). Building a structure of knowledge on such a flimsy foundation will leave it shaky and unstable. Eventually, even if confronted with evidence against it, one's mind will be so dependent on the belief that fear of one's world view collapsing will encourage one to reject the evidence. When this happens, one acts against reality. This is an act of destruction.

http://importanceofphilosophy.com/Irrational_Faith.html
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:22 pm

(i'll be back but in an attempt to wind down /// placeholder for later)
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby norton ash » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:25 pm

I have faith that an accommodation of one another's views will be reached.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:43 pm

I find it very depressing that a bunch of conspiracy theorists who pride themselves on their ability to detect psi-ops and and propaganda as a general proposition evidently regard an argument that appeals to them, but which they know to be made by people of dubious credibility and suspect motives, to be completely validated when it's made by an award-winning writer with a reputable background in mainstream journalism who appears, on a superficial level, to be making a reasonable case (based on exactly the same kind of mainstream scientific studies that they have no problem at all rejecting, a priori, as tainted products of a corrupt establishment when their conclusions are less emotionally appealing) even when that writer's bias has been clearly demonstrated.

Because there just couldn't possibly be any sinister forces at work conspiring to befog their minds with manufactured controversies in order to distract them from an assault on their rights and freedoms to whom it might occur that exploiting issues of real and justified concern to a targeted demographic would likely be much more fruitful than just making shit up at random or attempting to capitalize on a topic that was of little worth or meaning to them.

Obviously, that's just crazy talk. Tin-foil hat territory. And only a trouble-maker or an irrationally fanatical opponent of largely imaginary and vastly overstated evils would even think of such a thing. I mean, it's very straightforward, really. Psychotropics are sometimes bad, we all agree. Therefore, anyone whose principal argument is that psychotropics are sometimes bad must be making a valid case. And anyone who challenges it must not be.

That's just a no-brainer. So to speak.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:07 pm

American Dream wrote:Here's another article on Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic:


http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010 ... n_epidemic
TUESDAY, APR 27, 2010 20:20 ET
"Anatomy of an Epidemic": The hidden damage of psychiatric drugs
An award-winning science reporter looks at the history of mental illness in America -- with disturbing results
BY JED LIPINSKI


Oh my god. I hadn't actually read the rest of AD's above-quoted post until just now.

You guys:

Seriously. Had I world enough or time, I could go on delineating the numerous instances of rhetorical dishonesty and/or logical fallacy and/or substitutions of apples for oranges in Whitaker's statements and writing for pretty much as long as he continued producing either. Because that's virtually all he does produce.

But I don't. And obviously, I don't think you should just take my word on faith any more than I think you should take his or anyone else's. So I just encourage you again to be alert, to think critically, to ask yourselves on what your opinions and your confidence in them is based, and to answer yourselves honestly when you do.

Though it probably couldn't hurt to point out that spamming the thread with copypasta is not a substitute for thought, I guess.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby Project Willow » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:14 pm

Ah, and we come 'round to echos of the Begley/McCullough/Kate Dixon affair.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:16 pm

Robert Whitaker wrote:I think [psychiatric drugs] should be used in a selective, cautious manner. It should be understood that they’re not fixing any chemical imbalances. And honestly, they should be used on a short-term basis. But beyond this, I think we should look at programs that are getting very good results. This is what I love about Keropudas Hospital’s program in Finland. They have 20 years of great results treating newly psychotic patients. They see if patients can get better without the use of meds, and if they can’t, then they try them. It’s a best-use model, not a no-use or anti-med model. It fits with our studies done in the 1970s that found if you use this model, you get better outcomes, and a good number of people get better and go on with their lives.


Just to take a somewhat different tack, though:

The above is a largely sound and unimpeachable statement, with which I largely agree. In fact, there are really only two points with which I'd quibble in it. The first one is:

It should be understood that they’re not fixing any chemical imbalances.


And my problem with that is not that I dispute it, per se. I don't. Because that already is fucking understood. By psychiatry. The chemical imbalance hypothesis is strongly associated in the public mind with depression and with SSRI antidepressants -- and possibly, in a woolly-minded sort of a way generalized from there to apply to all mental disorders that are commonly treated with meds, I don't really know -- but it's not a belief or claim on which psychiatric medicine rests. At all. Even when it comes to the understanding of depression.

And even Wiki-fucking-pedia knows that:

    In the past two decades, research has uncovered multiple limitations of the monoamine hypothesis, and its inadequacy has been criticized within the psychiatric community. Intensive investigation has failed to find convincing evidence of a primary dysfunction of a specific monoamine system in patients with major depressive disorders. The antidepressants that do not act through the monoamine system, such as tianeptine and opipramol, have been known for a long time. Experiments with pharmacological agents that cause depletion of monoamines have shown that this depletion does not cause depression in healthy people nor does it worsen the symptoms in depressed patients. Already limited, the monoamine hypothesis has been further oversimplified when presented to the general public.

So why doesn't Mr. Robert "Exhaustive-Review-of-the-Medical-Literature" Whitaker know it? And why would he even be bringing it up where and when he does even if it were true? It's not like the point he's making depends on it.

Therefore, honestly, apart from a wish to push the one hot-button he can be almost one hundred percent certain exists and is pre-heated in the hearts and minds of all readers, I can't think of one single explanation for his having done so.

IOW, he seems to me to be sneaking in a resentment-goosing reference to the overprescription of SSRIs and the hype that attended their introduction to the market for no very apparent reason other than to goose resentment. And he's doing it without regard to the truth and also (apparently) without feeling at all ethically constrained by the potential damage he's doing either by perpetuating misinformation or by provoking the fears that are associated with it.

Does anyone else have a better (or even another) explanation? If so, please share it.

Back in a moment with the second.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:02 pm

The other thing I got a quibble with:

It fits with our studies done in the 1970s that found if you use this model, you get better outcomes, and a good number of people get better and go on with their lives.

That would be so very nice if true in any broadly applicable sense to "a good number of people" that I very, very devoutly hope and wish that some day it proves to be. At the moment, though, there are no studies that amount to much more than a happy promise that hasn't been sufficiently tested or examined for the possibility of its being kept to be known. Or knowable.

Doing more studies that had a much more solid empirical design and one that was better suited for exploring how sound and viable such an approach might or might be if broadly practiced than the ones done in the 1970s would be, imo, an excellent idea, and well worth advocating for.

Until that happens, however, suggesting (or, really, borderline flat-out stating) that is is a sound and viable approach for a good number of people is just irresponsible moonbeam-selling at best, and hucksterism at worst. Again, I find myself wondering why Mr. Robert "Exhaustive-Review-of-the-Medical-Literature" Whitaker would make such an assertion when he must know that it's not even close to exhaustively scientifically justified.

And again -- given that I know him to have a demonstrable bias and that I also know there to be a demonstrably extant dishonest and deceptive campaign of propaganda that hawks the very same dubious claim he's making and is backed and funded by questionable and/or reactionary interests -- the only really plausible explanation that I can think of is that he's playing on one of the few emotional predispositions that he can be almost certain is shared by virtually all his readers. In this case, the wish I expressed in the first sentence of this post.

Very, very simply put, all mindfuckery always, inevitably devolves to the manipulation of two baseline emotions: Fear and desire. I generally try not to forget that, however unpleasant remembering it is, because the consequences of forgetting it are worse. And the reason that I mention that is by way of explaining why I chose to try to demonstrate the reasons for my rejection of Whitaker's arguments using a piece of text....

Robert Whitaker wrote:I think [psychiatric drugs] should be used in a selective, cautious manner. It should be understood that they’re not fixing any chemical imbalances. And honestly, they should be used on a short-term basis. But beyond this, I think we should look at programs that are getting very good results. This is what I love about Keropudas Hospital’s program in Finland. They have 20 years of great results treating newly psychotic patients. They see if patients can get better without the use of meds, and if they can’t, then they try them. It’s a best-use model, not a no-use or anti-med model. It fits with our studies done in the 1970s that found if you use this model, you get better outcomes, and a good number of people get better and go on with their lives.


...that I regard as sound and largely unimpeachable, rather than one with which I have a strong reason to disagree.
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PS -- It's very minor, but that "short-term basis" thing is sound and largely unimpeachable for many, but not for all.
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You know, I do kind of wish that someone would contest what I'm saying on its merits, if they disagree with it on those grounds. BTW.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:10 pm

barracuda wrote:


Thank you. I would never even have noticed it if AD hadn't posted that excerpt. There's just too much that I recognize as wrong in the Whitaker/Levine party line for me to have any real need to focus on that one particular point in order to know its wrongness. Although it does represent a massive blow to Whitaker's claims of propriety and evidence-based argument, once one does notice it.

So thanks for the assist, AD!
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:02 pm

American Dream wrote:Here, for whatever it is worth, is one set of suggested guidelines from Andrew Weil for developing an integrative treatment program for depression. I think that these sorts of approaches would be most effective for mild to moderate depression...


Recommended Lifestyle Changes for Depression Treatment


In Buddhist philosophy, depression represents the inevitable consequence of seeking stimulation. The centuries old teachings suggest that we seek balance in our emotional health and lives, rather than continuously striving for the highs, and then complaining about the lows that follow.

Its basic recommendation encourages the daily practice of meditation, and this is perhaps the best way to address the root of depression and change it. This requires long-term commitment, however, as meditation does not produce immediate results.

Exercise. For more immediate, symptomatic depression treatment, there is no better method than regular aerobic exercise. Numerous studies have demonstrated the efficacy of a daily workout for improving emotional health and boosting self confidence. I recommend thirty minutes of continuous activity, at least five days a week for best results.

Check your meds. Make sure you are not taking any over-the-counter or prescription medications that contribute to depression. Avoid all antihistamines, tranquilizers, sleeping pills and narcotics if you have any tendency toward depression. You should also be cautious about the use of recreational drugs, notably alcohol, cocaine, amphetamines, downers, marijuana and ecstasy. These substances may provide a temporary sense of relief, but are likely to intensify depression to dangerous levels if used regularly.

Cut caffeine. Addiction to coffee and other forms of caffeine often interferes with normal moods and can aggravate depression.

Try acupuncture. This modality has proven itself to be very useful in treating several mood disorders, including depression.

Seek professional help. Find a psychotherapist, mental health professional or grief counselor who can help you explore the elements contributing to your depression and facilitate recovery. Cognitive behavioral therapy can be especially helpful.

Anti-depressant medications. Speak to your physician to determine if you are a candidate for anti-depressant medication. Proceed with caution, however, as an analysis by British researchers published in February, 2008, suggested that many commonly prescribed anti-depressant pharmaceuticals have limited effectiveness.

Nutrition and Supplements

B vitamins. The B vitamins, especially folic acid and vitamin B6, can be helpful in mild depression, and you should know that B vitamins can increase the efficacy of prescription anti-depressants.

St. John's wort. St. John's wort is an herbal remedy that has long been used in Europe as a treatment for mood disorders. Standardized extracts have shown an effectiveness equaling Prozac in the treatment of mild to moderate forms of the disease. It should not be taken with anti-retroviral medications, birth control pills, or antidepressant medications, especially SSRIs like Prozac or Celexa. Try 300mg of an extract standardized to 0.3 percent hypericin, three times a day. It's full effect will be felt in about eight weeks.

SAMe (S-adenosylmethionine). Has the advantage of working more quickly than St John's wort. Use only the butanedisulfonate form in enteric-coated tablets, or in capsules. Try 400-1,600 mg a day on an empty stomach.

Fish oil. Recent preliminary studies suggest that omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil may be helpful in maintaining a healthy mind. I think that reasonable doses of fish-oil supplements (1,000 - 2,000 mg per day) might be useful in addressing mild depression. Fish oil is an excellent source of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), an essential fatty acid found in nerve and brain tissue.

In addition, follow a well-balanced diet and include an antioxidant multi-vitamin/mineral supplement to ensure you are meeting your nutritional needs for all the essential nutrients.


Oh, tra-la-la-la-la. Just spinning my wheels here. Most of the above suggestions are good enough, although only the first one (exercise) is indisputably good for non-morbid, non-acute depression irrespective of all other factors and in a straightforwardly uncomplicated way. And even that's not really problem-free IRL, due to the probably pretty high odds that people who are suffering from depression might have an even more difficult time establishing and maintaining a routine program of exercise that's intensive enough to make a difference than non-depressed people do.

One could, of course, address that by classifying structured depression-combating work-outs with a personal trainer (or something along those lines) as FDA-approved medical treatments for depression the expenses of which were mostly borne by health insurance.

Unfortunately, people would have to think about it rigorously enough to perceive the obstacle in order then to go on to think of some way of overcoming it. So I doubt it'll ever happen.

And even if it did, you'd still have to do something about the health-insurance side of the equation. So never mind.

Also, while SAMe may have the advantage of working more quickly than St. John's Wort, it may also have the disadvantage of lowering blood sugar levels or causing nausea, vomiting, dry mouth, heartburn, blood in the stool, anorexia, mild diarrhea, stomachaches, slight constipation, increased thirst, increased salivation, urinary frequency, intolerable bowel symptoms, gas, decreased appetite and headaches. Less likely, but they have been reported: Anxiety, insomnia, hypomania, hostility, and suicidal ideation.

Fish oil raises some questions. Complicated questions. There aren't really very many things that don't, in my experience.

But I'll put those in separate posts. I have a point to prove.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby compared2what? » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:22 pm

    A Fish Oil Story

    By Paul Greeberg

    "What's the deal with fish oil?"

    If you are someone who catches and eats a lot of fish, as I am, you get adept at answering questions about which fish are safe, which are sustainable and which should be avoided altogether. But when this fish oil question arrived in my inbox recently, I was stumped. I knew that concerns about overfishing had prompted many consumers to choose supplements as a guilt-free way of getting their omega-3 fatty acids, which studies show lower triglycerides and the risk of heart attack. But I had never looked into the fish behind the oil and whether it was fit, morally or environmentally speaking, to be consumed.

    The deal with fish oil, I found out, is that a considerable portion of it comes from a creature upon which the entire Atlantic coastal ecosystem relies, a big-headed, smelly, foot-long member of the herring family called menhaden, which a recent book identifies in its title as “The Most Important Fish in the Sea.”

    The book’s author, H. Bruce Franklin, compares menhaden to the passenger pigeon and related to me recently how his research uncovered that populations were once so large that “the vanguard of the fish’s annual migration would reach Cape Cod while the rearguard was still in Maine.” Menhaden filter-feed nearly exclusively on algae, the most abundant forage in the world, and are prolifically good at converting that algae into omega-3 fatty acids and other important proteins and oils. They also form the basis of the Atlantic Coast’s marine food chain.

    Nearly every fish a fish eater likes to eat eats menhaden. Bluefin tuna, striped bass, redfish and bluefish are just a few of the diners at the menhaden buffet. All of these fish are high in omega-3 fatty acids but are unable themselves to synthesize them. The omega-3s they have come from menhaden.

    But menhaden are entering the final losing phases of a century-and-a-half fight for survival that began when humans started turning huge schools into fertilizer and lamp oil. Once petroleum-based oils replaced menhaden oil in lamps, trillions of menhaden were ground into feed for hogs, chickens and pets. Today, hundreds of millions of pounds of them are converted into lipstick, salmon feed, paint, “buttery spread,” salad dressing and, yes, some of those omega-3 supplements you have been forcing on your children. All of these products can be made with more environmentally benign substitutes, but menhaden are still used in great (though declining) numbers because they can be caught and processed cheaply.

    For the last decade, one company, Omega Protein of Houston, has been catching 90 percent of the nation’s menhaden. The perniciousness of menhaden removals has been widely enough recognized that 13 of the 15 Atlantic states have banned Omega Protein’s boats from their waters. But the company’s toehold in North Carolina and Virginia (where it has its largest processing plant), and its continued right to fish in federal waters, means a half-billion menhaden are still taken from the ecosystem every year.

    For fish guys like me, this egregious privatization of what is essentially a public resource is shocking. But even if you are not interested in fish, there is an important reason for concern about menhaden’s decline.

    Quite simply, menhaden keep the water clean. The muddy brown color of the Long Island Sound and the growing dead zones in the Chesapeake Bay are the direct result of inadequate water filtration — a job that was once carried out by menhaden. An adult menhaden can rid four to six gallons of water of algae in a minute. Imagine then the water-cleaning capacity of the half-billion menhaden we “reduce” into oil every year.

    So what is the seeker of omega-3 supplements to do? Bruce Franklin points out that there are 75 commercial products — including fish-oil pills made from fish discards — that don’t contribute directly to the depletion of a fishery. Flax oil also fits the bill and uses no fish at all.

    But I’ve come to realize that, as with many issues surrounding fish, more powerful fulcrums than consumer choice need to be put in motion to fix things. President Obama and the Congressional leadership have repeatedly stressed their commitment to wresting the wealth of the nation from the hands of a few. A demonstration of this commitment would be to ban the fishing of menhaden in federal waters. The Virginia Legislature could enact a similar moratorium in the Chesapeake Bay (the largest menhaden nursery in the world).

    The menhaden is a small fish that in its multitudes plays such a big role in our economy and environment that its fate shouldn’t be effectively controlled by a single company and its bottles of fish oil supplements. If our government is serious about standing up for the little guy, it should start by giving a little, but crucial, fish a fair deal.


There's also a pending lawsuit alleging that ten of the "best-choice, best-practice" brands of (ostensibly) purified fish oil had either toxic PCB levels or PCB levels that exceeded EPA safety standards for daily consumption. Although I don't know how reliable that is. But:

[quote]People buying certain fish oil supplements to get the benefit of omega-3 fatty acids are ingesting chemicals banned in 1979, according to environmental advocates who filed a lawsuit Monday aimed at forcing manufacturers to warn consumers.[/quote

...according to (among others) the just-missing-being-aptly-named-by-thismuch Mercury News.

PCBs are a carcinogen. And fish oil probably isn't an adequate freestanding treatment for depression anyway. So:

Bad, bad Dr. Andrew Weil! For shame, you reckless profiteer!

Plus more at link.
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Re: don't care what the scilons say, psychiatry now a sick j

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:22 pm

Project Willow wrote:Ah, and we come 'round to echos of the Begley/McCullough/Kate Dixon affair.


How so?
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