The Libya thread

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Plutonia » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:40 am

Libyan state TV has been hacked:

http://ljbc.net/home.php

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby can1exy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:47 am

In giving consideration to the feet dragging around the no-fly-zone question, and seeing the way the Saudi intervention in Bahrain was orchestrated, I have come to favour the following analysis.

The U.S./Anglo/Israeli alliance wants to see the Arab uprisings calm down and certainly not continue to spread. They are concerned that if they support the Libyan rebels and they topple Ghadaffi, it'll embolden them and send a message to discontented ones in other countries: "Go ahead and rise up. We got your back."

They need to appear to support democracy and be against tyranny so that is why there is this public consideration of the no-fly-zone option and why there are token gestures such as France establishing diplomatic relations with the Benghazi rebels. But they can't continue this fence sitting for much longer.

Will they let Ghadaffi retake the country? I wouldn't be surprised if they'd prefer that outcome.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:00 pm

can1exy wrote:In giving consideration to the feet dragging around the no-fly-zone question, and seeing the way the Saudi intervention in Bahrain was orchestrated, I have come to favour the following analysis.

The U.S./Anglo/Israeli alliance wants to see the Arab uprisings calm down and certainly not continue to spread. They are concerned that if they support the Libyan rebels and they topple Ghadaffi, it'll embolden them and send a message to discontented ones in other countries: "Go ahead and rise up. We got your back."

They need to appear to support democracy and be against tyranny so that is why there is this public consideration of the no-fly-zone option and why there are token gestures such as France establishing diplomatic relations with the Benghazi rebels. But they can't continue this fence sitting for much longer.

Will they let Ghadaffi retake the country? I wouldn't be surprised if they'd prefer that outcome.


This may represent a further revision of what I've said above, but so what? I'm learning, and a girl can change her mind.

can1exy, I agree.

Traditional CIA coups, past US military interventions and color revolution ops have not primarily been conducted with some general goal of creating chaos and keeping all governments weak. That would be a rarified theory applied by RISK-playing intellectuals confidentially and in retrospect. Notwithstanding the profit motive behind so many of the operators, the actual operations have almost always been aimed at specific targets, and have always sought to replace or "open up" nationalist regimes that don't integrate with global capital flows and the USG-defined security concepts du jour. They don't just do them for the fun.

The Arab client autocracies and oil kingdoms have been enthusiastic client states in the capitalist world order and US military allies against the perceived nationalist threats like Iran (before that Iraq, in the old days, the Soviets). Any USG interest in seeing them replaced would be predicated on the idea that they are doomed anyway, so it would be good to get more modern regimes in place, assuming (crucially) that these continue to play ball. And if possible. And the risk is great that it goes wrong from a USG perspective, so there's no way they're too excited about the genuinely popular, secular and nationalist uprisings we've seen in Tunisia and Egypt.

Popular uprisings (mostly secular, and all economic) have challenged all of the client autocracies and oil kingdoms, even Saudi Arabia. Every time one of these uprisings succeeds, as you say, it will encourage more. Under some circumstances USG and NATO might like an intervention to finish off a now-discredited Gaddafi if it creates a more modern client state with which business can resume. They might also quasi like it for "fun," i.e., to meet the requirement of an occasional war to justify the warfare state, prove their indispensability, etc. They like proving that military solutions "work." But not in the present context of the Middle East, where it would indeed serve to keep the wave of uprisings going. And that's even if an intervention is essentially destructive of the Libyan society and/or creates a new client state, because that would only become obvious long after the fall of Gaddafi provides all the other uprisings with new impetus.

Therefore I expect to see USG reluctance to go along with the neocon/humanitarian imperialist push (those who do believe in military solutions). If things continue to favor Gaddafi, a no-fly zone will become likely but there's no reason to think that will alter the ground outcome.

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:24 am

can1exy wrote:In giving consideration to the feet dragging around the no-fly-zone question, and seeing the way the Saudi intervention in Bahrain was orchestrated, I have come to favour the following analysis.

The U.S./Anglo/Israeli alliance wants to see the Arab uprisings calm down and certainly not continue to spread. They are concerned that if they support the Libyan rebels and they topple Ghadaffi, it'll embolden them and send a message to discontented ones in other countries: "Go ahead and rise up. We got your back."

They need to appear to support democracy and be against tyranny so that is why there is this public consideration of the no-fly-zone option and why there are token gestures such as France establishing diplomatic relations with the Benghazi rebels. But they can't continue this fence sitting for much longer.

Will they let Ghadaffi retake the country? I wouldn't be surprised if they'd prefer that outcome.


Oh absolutely. They were willing to let a few eggs break(Tunisia and Egypt...tho how much REAL change in leadership or culture thats going on, I have my doubts), and were willing to appear to sound like they back all forms of Arab government revolt. But the darker truth is the America's best buddy the Saudis are busy murdering people in Yemen and Bahrain, with the US having no intention of supporting popular dissent there. I would say the bond between the US and the Sauds is stronger than with Israel, given Israel is a charity case and the US does all sorts of oil/weapons deals with Saudi Arabia. "Hey, you guys made it so the hijackers had special Visas and lots of cash? Here's some F-16's!"

These Republican and Tea Party idiots talking about Sharia law conspiracies don't seem to get that the WORST perveyors of Sharia law and terror funding are America's closest allies.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby American Dream » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:38 pm

Libya and the World Left

March 16, 2011

By Immanuel Wallerstein


There is so much hypocrisy and so much confused analysis about what is going on in Libya that one hardly knows where to begin. The most neglected aspect of the situation is the deep division in the world left. Several left Latin American states, and most notably Venezuela, are fulsome in their support of Colonel Qaddafi. But the spokespersons of the world left in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Europe, and indeed North America, decidedly don't agree.



Hugo Chavez's analysis seems to focus primarily, indeed exclusively, on the fact that the United States and western Europe have been issuing threats and condemnations of the Qaddafi regime. Qaddafi, Chavez, and some others insist that the western world wishes to invade Libya and "steal" Libya's oil. The whole analysis misses entirely what has been happening, and reflects badly on Chavez’s judgment - and indeed on his reputation with the rest of the world left.



First of all, for the last decade and up to a few weeks ago, Qaddafi had nothing but good press in the western world. He was trying in every way to prove that he was in no way a supporter of "terrorism" and wished only to be fully integrated into the geopolitical and world-economic mainstream. Libya and the western world have been entering into one profitable arrangement after another. It is hard for me to see Qaddafi as a hero of the world anti-imperialist movement, at least in the last decade.



The second point missed by Hugo Chavez’s analysis is that there is not going to be any significant military involvement of the western world in Libya. The public statements are all huff and puff, designed to impress local opinion at home. There will be no Security Council resolution because Russia and China won't go along. There will be no NATO resolution because Germany and some others won't go along. Even Sarkozy's militant anti-Qaddafi stance is meeting resistance within France.



And above all, the opposition in the United States to military action is coming both from the public and more importantly from the military. The Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mullen, have very publicly stated their opposition to instituting a no-fly zone. Indeed, Secretary Gates went further. On Feb. 25, he addressed the cadets at West Point, saying to them: "In my opinion, any future defense secretary who advises the president again to send a big American land army into Asia or the Middle East or Africa should have his head examined."



To underline this view of the military, retired General Wesley Clark, the former commander of NATO forces, wrote an op-ed for the Washington Post on Mar. 11, under the heading, "Libya doesn't meet the test for U.S. military action." So, despite the call of the hawks for U.S. involvement, President Obama will resist.



The issue therefore is not Western military intervention or not. The issue is the consequence of Qaddafi's attempt to suppress all opposition in the most brutal fashion for the second Arab revolt. Libya is in turmoil because of the successful uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt. And if there is any conspiracy, it is one between Qaddafi and the West to slow down, even quash, the Arab revolt. To the extent that Qaddafi succeeds, he sends a message to all the other threatened despots of the region that harsh repression rather than concessions is the way to go.



This is what the left in the rest of the world sees, if some left governments in Latin America do not. As Samir Amin points out in his analysis of the Egyptian uprising, there were four distinct components among the protestors - the youth, the radical left, middle-class democrats, and Islamists. The radical left is composed of suppressed left parties and revitalized trade-union movements. There is no doubt a much, much smaller radical left in Libya, and a much weaker army (because of Qaddafi's deliberate policy). The outcome there is therefore very uncertain.



The assembled leaders of the Arab League may condemn Qaddafi publicly, but many, even most, may be applauding him privately - and copying from him.



It might be useful to end with two pieces of testimony from the world left. Helena Sheeham, an Irish Marxist activist, well-known in Africa for her solidarity work there with the most radical movements, was invited by the Qaddafi regime to come to Libya to lecture at the university. She arrived as turmoil broke out. The lectures at the university were cancelled, and she was finally simply abandoned by her hosts, and had to make her way out by herself. She wrote a daily diary in which, on the last day, Mar. 8, she wrote: "Any ambivalence about that regime, gone, gone, gone. It is brutal, corrupt, deceitful, delusional."



We might also see the statement of South Africa's major trade-union federation and voice of the left, COSATU. After praising the social achievements of the Libyan regime, COSATU said: “COSATU does not accept however that these achievements in any way excuse the slaughter of those protesting against the oppressive dictatorship of Colonel Gaddafi and reaffirms its support for democracy and human rights in Libya and throughout the continent."



Let us keep our eye on the ball. The key struggle worldwide right now is the second Arab revolt. It will be hard enough to obtain a truly radical outcome in this struggle. Qaddafi is a major obstacle for the Arab, and indeed the world, left. Perhaps we should all remember Simone de Beauvoir's maxim: "Wanting to be free yourself means wanting that others be free."







by Immanuel Wallerstein




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Re: The Libya thread

Postby Nordic » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:56 am

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/03/16/us-p ... t-gadhafi/

US Pressing UN for ‘Military Authorization’ Against Gadhafi


The Obama Administration’s position on Libya appears to have transitioned yet again toward a more hawkish stance, and they are now said to be pressuring the United Nations to expand their Thursday vote on Libya beyond a “no-fly zone” into a full authorization for attack.

US Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice insisted that the no-fly zone was no longer sufficient and that they wanted an authorization that would allow immediate attacks against Gadhafi’s forces on the ground, including air strikes.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, however, insisted that the attack would have to include “Arab participation” because the administration is concerned that a unilateral US attack would have “unintended consequences.”

The move comes amid recent suggestions that Russian and Chinese opposition to the no-fly zone may be fading. It remains to be seen if they will support an outright war against the Libyan regime, however.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby WakeUpAndLive » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:16 pm

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... er-libya/1

Update at 7:02 p.m. ET: Egypt is shipping weapons and ammunition to Libyan rebels, the Wall Street Journal is reporting, citing U.S. and rebel officials.

The shipments, mostly assault rifles and ammunition, are apparently the first known instances of an outside government arming the rebels, who have been losing ground to Moammar Gadhafi's forces.

The Journal says the shipments are occurring with the knowledge of the Obama administration.

Update at 6:53 p.m. ET: British and French warplanes could make initial air raids on Libyan positions as early as Friday, the BBC reports, citing senior U.N. sources. Arab allies might provide logistical support.

Update at 6:52 p.m. ET: The vote was 10-0 with five abstentions, including Russia and China.

Original post: The U.N. Security Council has approved a no-fly zone over Libya and authorized "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

The resolution also calls for an immediate cease-fire and an end to all violence.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:38 am

Libya Threatens Counterstrikes Against Civilians, Mediterranean Traffic If Attacked As UN Set To Vote On Air Strikes At 6 PM
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/17/2011 14:04 -0400

Minutes after the United Nations announced it would vote on imposing the No Fly Zone (resolution text link) over Libya, which is probably merely a formality at this point with virtually no hold outs on the Security Council, Libya has immediately retaliated by saying that it such a decision would open counterstrikes by Libya against any "air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean Sea" as well as "civilian and military facilities in the country." Whether this means that Gaddafi will promptly attack his oil infrastructure as Zero Hedge first suggested 3 weeks ago is unclear, but the Crude market is not taking any chances: Brent is now up almost $4 on the day having snapped its several day losing streak.

From Reuters:
Any foreign attack on Libya will endanger air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean basin and expose the area to both short and long term risks, the Defence Ministry said in a statement broadcast on Libyan television.

The statement said Libya would strike back at civilian and foreign targets if the country comes under attack from foreign forces.

"Any foreign military act against Libya will expose all air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean Sea to danger and civilian and military (facilities) will become targets of Libya's counter-attack," said the statement.

"The Mediterranean basin will face danger not just in the short-term, but also in the long-term," it said.


The ensuing disruptions to naval traffic should Libya follow through with its threat could mean the short Japan relief-based covering spree in the market today will promptly come to an end.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/libya- ... un-set-vot


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Re: The Libya thread

Postby vanlose kid » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:38 am

Gaddafi troops encircling, bombarding Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby justdrew » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:45 am

every dead hero, lay at obama's door step. those people are our models. they gave everything. fucking coward asshole obama. should have gone in five six weeks ago and destroyed that useless prick.

ah but why dream? Our military exists for one reason only, to make contractors rich, actually fighting a foe with some semblance of a capability to defend? Forget it. Our coward military won't go near such a minor challenge.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby American Dream » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:31 am

Libyan Developments

March 19, 2011

By Gilbert Achcar



[Gilbert Achcar grew up in Lebanon, and is currently Professor at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) of the University of London. His books include The Clash of Barbarisms: The Making of the New World Disorder, published in 13 languages, Perilous Power: The Middle East and U.S. Foreign Policy, co-authored with Noam Chomsky, and most recently The Arabs and the Holocaust: The Arab-Israeli War of Narratives. He was interviewed by Stephen R. Shalom.]

Who is the Libyan opposition? Some have noted the presence of the old monarchist flag in rebel ranks.

This flag is not used as a symbol of the monarchy, but as the flag that the Libyan state adopted after it won independence from Italy. It is used by the uprising in order to reject the Green Flag imposed by Gaddafi along with his Green Book, when he was aping Mao Zedong and his Little Red Book. In no way does the tricolor flag indicate nostalgia for the monarchy. In the most common interpretation, it symbolizes the three historic regions of Libya, and the crescent and star are the same symbols you see on the flags of the Algerian, Tunisian and Turkish republics, not symbols of monarchism.

So who is the opposition? The composition of the opposition is -- as in all the other revolts shaking the region -- very heterogeneous. What unites all the disparate forces is a rejection of the dictatorship and a longing for democracy and human rights. Beyond that, there are many different perspectives. In Libya, more particularly, there is a mixture of human rights activists, democracy advocates, intellectuals, tribal elements, and Islamic forces -- a very broad collection. The most prominent political force in the Libyan uprising is the "Youth of the 17th of February Revolution," which has a democratic platform, calling for the rule of law, political freedoms, and free elections. The Libyan movement also includes sections of the government and the armed forces that have broken away and joined the opposition -- which you didn't have in Tunisia or Egypt.

So the Libyan opposition represents a mixture of forces, and the bottom line is that there is no reason for any different attitude toward them than to any other of the mass uprisings in the region.

Is Gaddafi -- or was Gaddafi -- a progressive figure?

When Gaddafi came to power in 1969 he was a late manifestation of the wave of Arab nationalism that followed World War II and the 1948 Nakba. He tried to imitate Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser, who he regarded as his model and inspiration. So he replaced the monarchy with a republic, championed Arab unity, forced the withdrawal of the U.S.'s Wheelus Airbase from Libyan territory, and initiated a program of social change.

Then the regime moved in its own way, along the path of radicalization, inspired by an Islamized Maoism. There were sweeping nationalizations in the late 1970s -- almost everything was nationalized. Gaddafi claimed to have instituted direct democracy -- and formally changed the name of the country from Republic to State of the Masses (Jamahiriya). He pretended that he had turned the country into the fulfillment of socialist utopia with direct democracy, but few were fooled. The "revolutionary committees" were actually acting as a ruling apparatus along with the security services in controlling the country. At the same time, Gaddafi also played an especially reactionary role in reinvigorating tribalism as a tool for his own power. His foreign policy became increasingly foolhardy, and most Arabs came to consider him crazy.

With the Soviet Union in crisis, Gaddafi shifted away from his socialist pretensions and re-opened his economy to Western business. He asserted that his economic liberalization would be accompanied by a political one, aping Gorbachev's perestroika after having aped Mao Zedong's "cultural revolution," but the political claim was an empty one. When the United States invaded Iraq in 2003 under the pretext of searching for "weapons of mass destruction," Gaddafi, worried that he might be next, implemented a sudden and surprising turnabout in foreign policy, earning himself a spectacular upgrade from the status of "rogue state" to that of close collaborator of Western states. A collaborator in particular of the United States, which he helped in its so-called war on terror, and Italy, for which he did the dirty job of turning back would-be immigrants trying to get from Africa to Europe.

Throughout these metamorphoses, Gaddafi's regime was always a dictatorship. Whatever early progressive measures Gaddafi may have enacted, there was nothing left of progressivism or anti-imperialism in his regime in the last phase. Its dictatorial character showed itself in the way he reacted to the protests: immediately deciding to quell them by force. There was no attempt to offer any kind of democratic outlet for the population. He warned the protesters in a now famous tragic-comic speech: "We will come inch by inch, home by home, alley by alley ... We will find you in your closets. We will have no mercy and no pity." Not a surprise, knowing that Gaddafi was the only Arab ruler who publicly blamed the Tunisian people for having toppled their own dictator Ben Ali, whom he described as the best ruler the Tunisians would find.

Gaddafi resorted to threats and violent repression, claiming that the protesters had been turned into drug addicts by Al Qaeda, who poured hallucinogens in their coffees. Blaming Al Qaeda for the uprising was his way of trying to get the support of the West. Had there been any offer of help from Washington or Rome, you can be sure that Gaddafi would have gladly welcomed it. He actually expressed his bitter disappointment at the attitude of his buddy Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, with whom he enjoyed partying, and complained that his other European "friends" also betrayed him. In the last few years, Gaddafi had indeed become a friend of several Western rulers and other establishment figures who, for a fistful of dollars, have been willing to ridicule themselves exchanging hugs with him. Anthony Giddens himself, the distinguished theoretician of Tony Blair's Third Way, followed in his disciple's steps by paying a visit to Gaddafi in 2007 and writing in the Guardian how Libya was on the path of reform and on its way to becoming the Norway of the Middle East.

What is your assessment of UN Security Council resolution 1973 adopted on March 17?

The resolution itself is phrased in a way that takes into consideration -- and appears to respond to -- the request by the uprising for a no-fly zone. The opposition has indeed explicitly called for a no-fly zone, on the condition that no foreign troops be deployed on Libyan territory. Gaddafi has the bulk of the elite armed forces, with aircraft and tanks, and the no-fly zone would indeed neutralize his main military advantage. This request of the uprising is reflected in the text of the resolution, which authorizes UN member states "to take all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory." The resolution establishes "a ban on all flights in the airspace of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya in order to help protect civilians."

Now there are not enough safeguards in the wording of the resolution to bar its use for imperialist purposes. Although the purpose of any action is supposed to be the protection of civilians, and not "regime change," the determination of whether an action meets this purpose or not is left up to the intervening powers and not to the uprising, or even the Security Council. The resolution is amazingly confused. But given the urgency of preventing the massacre that would have inevitably resulted from an assault on Benghazi by Gaddafi's forces, and the absence of any alternative means of achieving the protection goal, no one can reasonably oppose it. One can understand the abstentions; some of the five states who abstained in the UNSC vote wanted to express their defiance and/or unhappiness with the lack of adequate oversight, but without taking the responsibility for an impending massacre.

The Western response, of course, smacks of oil. The West fears a long drawn out conflict. If there is a major massacre, they would have to impose an embargo on Libyan oil, thus keeping oil prices at a high level at a time when, given the current state of the global economy, this would have major adverse consequences. Some countries, including the United States, acted reluctantly. Only France emerged as very much in favor of strong action, which might well be connected to the fact that France -- unlike Germany (which abstained in the UNSC vote), Britain, and, above all, Italy -- does not have a major stake in Libyan oil, and certainly hopes to get a greater share post-Gaddafi.

We all know about the Western powers' pretexts and double standards. For example, their alleged concern about harm to civilians bombarded from the air did not seem to apply in Gaza in 2008-09, when hundreds of noncombatants were being killed by Israeli warplanes in furtherance of an illegal occupation. Or the fact that the US allows its client regime in Bahrain, where it has a major naval base, to violently repress the local uprising, with the help of other regional vassals of Washington.

The fact remains, nevertheless, that if Gaddafi were permitted to continue his military offensive and take Benghazi, there would be a major massacre. Here is a case where a population is truly in danger, and where there is no plausible alternative that could protect it. The attack by Gaddafi's forces was hours or at most days away. You can't in the name of anti-imperialist principles oppose an action that will prevent the massacre of civilians. In the same way, even though we know well the nature and double standards of cops in the bourgeois state, you can't in the name of anti-capitalist principles blame anybody for calling them when someone is on the point of being raped and there is no alternative way of stopping the rapists.

This said, without coming out against the no-fly zone, we must express defiance and advocate full vigilance in monitoring the actions of those states carrying it out, to make sure that they don't go beyond protecting civilians as mandated by the UNSC resolution. In watching on TV the crowds in Benghazi cheering the passage of the resolution, I saw a big billboard in their middle that said in Arabic "No to foreign intervention." People there make a distinction between "foreign intervention" by which they mean troops on the ground, and a protective no-fly zone. They oppose foreign troops. They are aware of the dangers and wisely don't trust Western powers.

So, to sum up, I believe that from an anti-imperialist perspective one cannot and should not oppose the no-fly zone, given that there is no plausible alternative for protecting the endangered population. The Egyptians are reported to be providing weapons to the Libyan opposition -- and that's fine -- but on its own it couldn't have made a difference that would have saved Benghazi in time. But again, one must maintain a very critical attitude toward what the Western powers might do.

What's going to happen now?

It's difficult to tell what will happen now. The UN Security Council resolution did not call for regime change; it's about protecting civilians. The future of the Gaddafi regime is uncertain. The key question is whether we will see the resumption of the uprising in western Libya, including Tripoli, leading to a disintegration of the regime's armed forces. If that occurs, then Gaddafi may be ousted soon. But if the regime manages to remain firmly in control in the west, then there will be a de facto division of the country -- even though the resolution affirms the territorial integrity and national unity of Libya. This may be what the regime has chosen, as it has just announced its compliance with the UN resolution and proclaimed a ceasefire. What we might then have is a prolonged stalemate, with Gaddafi controlling the west and the opposition the east. It will obviously take time before the opposition can incorporate the weapons it is receiving from and through Egypt to the point of becoming able to inflict military defeat on Gaddafi's forces. Given the nature of the Libyan territory, this can only be a regular war rather than a popular one, a war of movement over vast stretches of territory. That's why the outcome is hard to predict. The bottom line here again is that we should support the victory of the Libyan democratic uprising. Its defeat at the hands of Gaddafi would be a severe backlash negatively affecting the revolutionary wave that is currently shaking the Middle East and North Africa.




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Re: The Libya thread

Postby 23 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:57 am

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Re: The Libya thread

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Breaking: The fine and fair USA has commenced the launching of missiles
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:22 pm

http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb

The attack has begun.

112+ missiles per Pentagon. 20 Sites.
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Re: The Libya thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:05 pm

DoYouEverWonder wrote:112+ missiles per Pentagon.


That might actually be a good use for them.
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