Huge explosion in Oslo

[vanlose kid]

...

So, he left the car, boarded the ferry on foot, and as well as a pistol and rifle, was carrying enough ammunition to kill 68, including misses, and he didn't arouse any suspicion. And no mention of the shotgun many eyewitnesses described the shooter also using. The guy is James Bond.

he was dressed as a cop?

*

Still a lot of ammo and where did he get the shotgun?

he sure wasn't carrying it around with him when he planted the bomb.

*

[stickdog99]

didn't say it was. don't think i'd have taken it though. too high on the water.

Exactly. When kids are being shot to death, it's no job for a ferry.

[Laodicean]

I sure wish wal-mart and/or ikea would roll back the prices on conjecture. I just can't afford it.

[stickdog99]

Here are the 2 biggest questions about this in my mind:

1) How did this guy -- carrying 2 or 3 guns including a shotgun and enough ammo to fill 60+ kids and sill have a bunch left over -- not arouse any suspicion when he got on a ferry boat dressed as a cop in a crappy imitation uniform in a country in which police do not routinely carry guns?

2) How the fuck did it take the cops 78 minutes to arrive on the scene when the PM and the fucking television stations were fully aware of the situation within 9 minutes of when the shooting began?

[barracuda]

Guardian Live feed 22/07/2011

5.16pm: Neil Perry in Oslo just sent me this worrying development. I'll try to get more details:

A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where youth were attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg has just confirmed. He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' but he is safe. He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.

17:27: The local police district in Buskerud learn about the shooting, and three minutes later the police in Oslo are informed.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ay_attacks

Thank you! What do all you apologists have to say about this?

From the same Guardian Live feed above, 22/07/2011:

6.12pm: NRK is reporting that one person has been arrested on the island of Utoya, where the shooting took place.

So according to that timeline, the entire notification and response from first call to arrest took 56 minutes.

Hey Cuda - can you find a source for those big fucking trailers that haul those monstrous boats? And the air compressor to inflate them? Thanks.

I'm sure you have access to the same internet I do. But I'm getting bored by this line of discussion, because it's not taking me anywhere. It's not effectively demonstrating a conspiracy to dote on the police response, considering that he had already killed many people by the time the first emergency calls came in. There are bigger fish to fry in this story, and too many assumptions are being made with too little hard information. No sense making a rubber band into a lynchpin.

[Harvey]

Guardian Live feed 22/07/2011

5.16pm: Neil Perry in Oslo just sent me this worrying development. I'll try to get more details:

A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where youth were attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg has just confirmed. He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' but he is safe. He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.

17:27: The local police district in Buskerud learn about the shooting, and three minutes later the police in Oslo are informed.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ay_attacks

Thank you! What do all you apologists have to say about this?

From the same Guardian Live feed above, 22/07/2011:

6.12pm: NRK is reporting that one person has been arrested on the island of Utoya, where the shooting took place.

So according to that timeline, the entire notification and response from first call to arrest took 56 minutes.

Hey Cuda - can you find a source for those big fucking trailers that haul those monstrous boats? And the air compressor to inflate them? Thanks.

I'm sure you have access to the same internet I do. But I'm getting bored by this line of discussion, because it's not taking me anywhere. It's not effectively demonstrating a conspiracy to dote on the police response, considering that he had already killed many people by the time the first emergency calls came in. There are bigger fish to fry in this story, and too many assumptions are being made with too little hard information. No sense making a rubber band into a lynchpin.

Let's get frying. What do you suggest?

[stickdog99]

http://sosialisme.no/sommerleir2011/praktiskinfo/reise/

The ferry makes the entire round trip in about 5 minutes according to the above link.

Translation: "The ferry to the mainland has three departures daily: 0915, 1145 and 1545. The journey goes pretty quickly, so it goes from the mainland again about 5 minutes after it departed from the island."

So how did the guy arrive at 17:07? Did he commandeer the ferry in his fake police outfit? You know, the same ferry that came back less than 5 minutes later but that the real cops had no idea how to use to get across?

Fake cop gets the ferry to deliver him to the island within 10 minutes of arriving at Tyrifjorden.

Real cops manage to waste 32 minutes from the time they arrive at the shore to make the same trip, while little kids are getting murdered the whole time.

Meanwhile, the ferry just sitting at the ferry dock can make a round trip from shore to shore in about 5 minutes.

You really can't make this stuff up.

[8bitagent]

Wow. This may be the sickest thing Beck has ever said, tacitly giving his seal of approval to the massacre. Holy shit.

My theory for years now is that Beck and his ilk are TRYING to make something like this happen in the United States. They have been trying trying trying!

And it's amazing that atrocities like this don't happen every damn week here. Considering the way so many people are screaming this kind of hate speech into the ears of the disturbed.

Beck and his cronies are probably wildly jealous of this event. How did this happen so EASILY in Norway? When they've been putting so much effort into making them happen here?

Oh exactly. Fox all around, like O'reilly and the Tiller shooting or Goldberg and the Unitarian shooting. Rush is by far the most unapolageticly hardcore racist voice on mainstream airwaves, but Beck loves to stoke viewers with dehumanizing tales of "commies, Moozlums, and lefties out to threaten our way of life"

Now some may say "wait, why does Beck and Breivik reference the Nazis in a negative light if they're racist?" Beck compares the left leaning labour youth camp as a Nazi youth camp, dehumanizing
them and almost flippantly kind of saying "eh, so what...80 dead kids...all future Nazis". Breivik allegedly looks up to anti Nazi leaders of WW2, supports Judaism and Israel and other things a classical neo Nazi would not do. But I see this not purely as neo Nazism but as raving mad paranoid nationalism taken to a new extreme, used to whip people into a frenzy. The Nazis are seen as yet another Marxist/Commie
extension, as are the "Moozlums".

[barracuda]

What do you suggest?

I suggest that no one undertakes such a mission without significant support, and that the climate against muslim immigrants in Europe has evolved into a situation in which obviously many people there, and here in the US, secretly support Breivik's actions 100%, or at least the philosophy which underlines his actions. When he tells the court he has cells of sympathisers or supporters, I don't doubt it in the slightest, because behind all his bodybuilding and steroids and nicotine patches, he's a coward and a narcissist. He sees himself as a knight, but he didn't take many risky chances by shooting unarmed children on a remote island. Maybe he acted alone, or maybe with confederates, but you know damn well he didn't go ten years without a support network of some kind. The people I would look at first for signs of complicity would be members of the political establishment that nutures this kind of far-right hatred for it's own purposes, in Norway, England and beyond - the EDL, the Progress Party, etc. I think you have to identify the structure of the smaller players here before you can work your way up the ladder to incriminating the big dogs. Who are the backers of the various political forums he wrote on? Who did he contact through the internet? Did he have a second or third Facebook account through which he sent out his messages? Who was on the friends list? Who else did he send his manifesto to? Follow his money, his travel, and the history of his connections to the far-right. And though much of that information has come out, there is more to come as his network is slowly revealed. As a task, it's probably a lot more mundane drudgework than this armchair quarterback stopwatching routine of the last fifteen pages, but that's what investigative work is really about.

[8bitagent]

so many oddities... Templar, Masonic, "sleeper cells activated", ARG like Facebook pages/manifestos/cryptic twitter posts, P2/Gladio echos, etc?

What about all the "Islamist threat is dying/fascist militants are the next level" hype we've been hearing for the last year plus? (Which in a way I agree, because most attacks and threats in the US seem to be from far right nuts)

Again, the whole thing seems like a weird ARG(the backstory thing) Like some sort of viral marketing after the fact.

*


what this suggests, to me, is that Breivik was a lone wolf, because the entire way the world has been driven in this direction these past ten years made him possible. he just took what was said to the next level. no conspiracy is necessary if you can find people who are completely committed to the cause they'll act on their own. no connections, no chain of command, nothing. that's "great" for all sorts of reasons including plausible deniability. you never know when or where or who. you just play on probabilities.

(1) is scary, but i find (2) scarier. and that's what i think we're looking at here.

*

I do consider it a deep state event, even if he acted alone or with a small cabal of like minded people. But I agree with your points, and can see both point of view(determined person versus wider conspiracy/deep state event) BUT this event regardless fits neatly within the fabric of the way things have been leading, and is the perfect event to start what the PTB have been wanting.

I guess, life works in mysterious ways

In his manifesto Breivik said the gathering in London was "not a stereotypical 'rightwing' meeting full of underprivileged, racist skinheads with a short temper". Instead, he claimed those present were successful entrepreneurs, "business or political leaders, some with families, most Christian conservatives, but also some agnostics and even atheists".

Reminds me of this scene(at the 3:18 mark, from the 2002 film of The Sum of All Fears)




Last week someone posted an article on how many men women and children have been massacred since 2009 by Obama's drones. Yesterday a hospital was blown up with who knows how many dead by NATO.

Why arent THESE considered on par with Breivik's madness?

And they practically invented the modern False Flag attack.

Yep, Mossad definitely invented the modern terror bombing black op. Lavon, King David, etc all 40's and early 50's.

[stickdog99]

Then there is this:

5:10 p.m. : Police confirm that a bomb caused the explosion in Oslo. At roughly the same time, youths gathered in the center of Utøya Island hear noises coming from the shoreline. At first, they think the noise comes from exploding balloons. When they realize the noises are gunfire, panic breaks out. Several children call emergency numbers but are told not to jam the telephone line if their call doesn't have something to do with the attack in Oslo.

Kids call 911 almost immediately, of course. I am imagining the conversation.

Frantic Child One: I'm at a camp on Utoya with a bunch of other kids and some guy is shooting at us!

911 Operator: Stop bothering us! Don't you realize there was a bombing in Oslo earlier today! (click)

Frantic Child Two: No, there is really some guy killing us by the dozen out here! Help! Here, I'll let you listen to the shots!

911 Operator: Not again! I thought I told you kids to stop bothering us! (click)

5:15 p.m.: According to eyewitnesses, the gunman reaches the area where the campers' tents are erected. He then goes systematically from tent to tent shooting whomever he finds there at close range.

5:20 p.m. : A group of campers hides in a dark corner of one of the few structures on the island.

5:25 p.m. : As the sound of gunfire draws nearer, the youths flee through a window. A few of them write text messages to their parents.

5:27 p.m. : This is the time at which the Norwegian police says it received the first notification of the massacre on the island.

Maybe one of the parent who got a text message drove over to the station and showed it to Officer Friendly?

5:38 p.m. : A special anti-terrorism unit begins its journey to the island from Oslo. The unit's commander decides to make the 45 kilometer (28 mile) trip by car because the unit's helicopter is located 50-60 kilometers south of Oslo and is apparently not ready for immediate deployment.

Good decision. If you don't speed and only stop once for refreshments, you guys should be able to drive those 28 miles within 31 minutes.

5:45 p.m. : The owner of a campground directly across from the island says he had heard gunshots for over half an hour. But only now does he realized that a horrific drama is playing out on the island. At this point, survivors begin to reach the shore after swimming the roughly 600 meters (ca. 2,000 feet) from the island. They report that other campers have been shot in the water and would presumably drown. The campground owner and several vacationers commandeer a number of small boats and head toward the island in an attempt to rescue other survivors.

But none of these brave folks were available to help the poor, scared and helpless police when they arrive just 7 minutes later!

5:52 p.m. : The first police officers reach the area, but they are forced to wait because they do not have their own boat.

Exactly. Only campground owners know how to commandeer boats!

5:57 p.m. : Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg appears before television cameras and warns of a "serious situation."

Prime Minister has a speech written, gets his make up on and addresses the emergency on TV. He tells the nation that everything is under control and promises that the first policeman will arrive on the scene within 30 minutes.

6:00 p.m. : Four campers run toward the gunman looking for protection because they believe he is a real policeman. All four are shot dead. Other campers watch the scene unfold from their hiding places but are powerless to intervene.

6:09 p.m. : The anti-terrorism police unit from Oslo arrives at an area across from the island.

28 miles in 31 minutes! Way to go, crack unit!

6:25 p.m. : Police reach the island. At first, they are not sure how many gunmen are involved in the massacre. Many of the campers initially remain in their hiding spots out of fear.

16 minutes to go 1/3 of a mile. 33 minutes after the local police arrive. The ferry boat makes the round trip in 5 minutes.

[stickdog99]

What do you suggest?

I suggest that no one undertakes such a mission without significant support, and that the climate against muslim immigrants in Europe has evolved into a situation in which obviously many people there, and here in the US, secretly support Breivik's actions 100%, or at least the philosophy which underlines his actions. When he tells the court he has cells of sympathisers or supporters, I don't doubt it in the slightest, because behind all his bodybuilding and steroids and nicotine patches, he's a coward and a narcissist. He sees himself as a knight, but he didn't take many risky chances by shooting unarmed children on a remote island. Maybe he acted alone, or maybe with confederates, but you know damn well he didn't go ten years without a support network of some kind. The people I would look at first for signs of complicity would be members of the political establishment that nutures this kind of far-right hatred for it's own purposes, in Norway, England and beyond - the EDL, the Progress Party, etc. I think you have to identify the structure of the smaller players here before you can work your way up the ladder to incriminating the big dogs. Who are the backers of the various political forums he wrote on? Who did he contact through the internet? Did he have a second or third Facebook account through which he sent out his messages? Who was on the friends list? Who else did he send his manifesto to? Follow his money, his travel, and the history of his connections to the far-right. And though much of that information has come out, there is more to come as his network is slowly revealed. As a task, it's probably a lot more mundane drudgework than this armchair quarterback stopwatching routine of the last fifteen pages, but that's what investigative work is really about.

And nobody in authority had the manifesto or the nut's list of FB friends before the attack, right? Because they couldn't afford Murdoch's new prices to get such info?

[Laodicean]

Guardian Live feed 22/07/2011

5.16pm: Neil Perry in Oslo just sent me this worrying development. I'll try to get more details:

A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where youth were attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg has just confirmed. He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' but he is safe. He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.

17:27: The local police district in Buskerud learn about the shooting, and three minutes later the police in Oslo are informed.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ay_attacks

Thank you! What do all you apologists have to say about this?

From the same Guardian Live feed above, 22/07/2011:

6.12pm: NRK is reporting that one person has been arrested on the island of Utoya, where the shooting took place.

So according to that timeline, the entire notification and response from first call to arrest took 56 minutes.

Hey Cuda - can you find a source for those big fucking trailers that haul those monstrous boats? And the air compressor to inflate them? Thanks.

I'm sure you have access to the same internet I do. But I'm getting bored by this line of discussion, because it's not taking me anywhere. It's not effectively demonstrating a conspiracy to dote on the police response, considering that he had already killed many people by the time the first emergency calls came in. There are bigger fish to fry in this story, and too many assumptions are being made with too little hard information. No sense making a rubber band into a lynchpin.

Oh, I see. You were making an assumption with your statement. Sounded to me like you were making a statement of fact. Thats why i asked for a source, since we use the same internet and all. Yeah, I thought you knew where Norway's highly trained Counter-Terrorism Delta Force (NOT the police) deployed their (reportedly defective and sinkable) RIBs. That would be good to know, but you're bored with that line of questioning of events. Like I said, not important at all. Or the whereabouts of their military equipped Bell helicopters on that day as well. Their sharpshooter and pilot must of had the day off or something when the order to deploy immediately to the island came from the high command. Shopping at the local ikea maybe. Or frying fish in a pan. I guess we'll never really know what happened, unless you believe what the media reported. In which case this highly trained force with a history of saving lives was completely incompetent for an hour. Sitting there doing nothing while the regular Norway police took charge and got there ahead of them with practically the use of fishing boats. Yeah, I can see how that's a totally believable story.

[vanlose kid]

didn't say it was. don't think i'd have taken it though. too high on the water.

Exactly. When kids are being shot to death, it's no job for a ferry.

exactly. fucking unions don't you know. did you fight in the Boer wars or something?

*

[stickdog99]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14260297

At about 16:57 a ferryman was asked to transport a policeman to the island of Utoeya, located in a lake about 35km (20 miles) north-west of Oslo, Norway's NTB news agency reported.

The uniformed man was said to have been armed with a pistol and an automatic rifle. He had described how he was there to "do research in connection with the bomb blasts"," NRK journalist Ole Torp told the BBC.

But the policeman turned out to be a gunman, and he went on to shoot and kill scores of young people staying at the island camp. Although initial reports on Friday said about 10 people had been killed, overnight the figure soared, as horrific details emerged. ...

Local police officers arrived at the pier across from the island at 17:52, but had to wait for a "suitable boat" to take them across the water.
Police arriving on Utoeya Police have been criticised for the time it took them to get to the island

The specially-equipped police officers from Oslo arrived shortly after at 18:09, but also had difficulty making the crossing.

Local police chief Erik Berga said a police boat intended to transport the armed unit nearly sank.

"When so many people and equipment were put into it, the boat started to take on water, so that the motor stopped," he told Reuters news agency. "The boat was way too small and way too poor."



So the fake policeman commandeers the ferry within 5 minutes. And the ferry returns to the shore within 5 minutes. But, an hour later, the real cops are completely stumped as to how to fjord the stream.

Fake cop commandeers ferry within 5 minutes. The camp owner commandeers boats to rescue survivors within 5 minutes. But it takes the real cops about 30 minutes to find a "suitable" boat. And when they finally get one, they manage to sink it.