Huge explosion in Oslo

[8bitagent]

Cui Bono? The entire global fascist capitalist apparatus. Neo-nazis are used as patsies.

I'm now starting to lean more than way...I didnt want to believe Gladio was being activated again

[stickdog99]

OK, so all the newspapers and news services except one got it wrong, and the one you are trying to pummel me with got it right. And I have to prove that when the parents got the texts at 17:10 that they did not decide to finish reading The Pet Goat before they tried to get through to the police.

You win. This whole issue is as meaningless and tedious as you have consistently contended from the start. Cheers.

[8bitagent]

I'm just a bit baffled as to why you would discount the likelihood that he had any sympathisers in obscure high places, e.g., among the intelligence agencies, or in the armed forces, or at certain levels of the police hierarchy. These are the kind of places where reactionary, right-wing, authoritarian "thought" tends to flourish, in any society. And the extreme right is far from non-existent in Scandinavia.

I don't. If that's so, we're likely to see evidence of it. The families of the dead as you say are themselves elite, and they are a great many and without a doubt angry beyond what we can conceive, as well as devastated. They're talking to each other. If there's evidence, they won't be silent. I'm not sure we have seen such evidence, so far. So far, the police and counterterror response seems to have been according to the likely protocols for it, not incompetent per se, but geared more to military and hostage situations, rather than a rampage killing in an enclosed space by a completely unrestrained gunman (or gunmen). Honestly, they no doubt had plans for everything we or they can think of, but do you think they had a plan for an attack on the Utoya island teenager camp? (Another huge difference from 9/11, where we now know that exercises simulating hijack planes crashbombing into the WTC itelf were being prepared in the week prior, and scheduled for the day after. Among countless other red flags.)

.

I, and others arent suggesting an "inside job", least I am not. I think the cops were incompetent, but I dont see them acting on a conspiracy. But I DO find the possibility Breivik was part of some neo Gladio cell cultivated for a decade for the "new phase"...this means a deep state cabal in Europe or elsewhere to wants to attack Norway society and other democratic socialist nations...not an internal inside job where Norway wants to use the shooting for political capital like America after 9/11. If anything the pm leader is calling for more openness

[2012 Countdown]

Hmmm, I guess now is the time when us who are lurkers chime in and say that we appreciate all the rigor intuition going on in the thread. I for one am keeping an open mind. I think this story is fishy and am listening to all input. You should hear what Webster Tarpley is saying...AJ as well...then there's Steve Pieczenik ( http://www.stevepieczenik.com/home.html ) who was on AJ in the recent past about 9/11 inside Op, who is calling this, depending on your view, a limited hangout.

Anyway, I am enjoying the reading. Back to lurking....

[stickdog99]

You are putting a model of 1940s Hollywood-based American / Brit 'individual takes charge in a crisis, bangs heads together and makes things happen' onto a Scandanavian response.

"They wouldnt wait if someone needed it."

Yes they would, if that was the consensus

Particularly if there was a procedure for it and 'Health and Safety' said lives might be at risk for not following it. Given it was uncertain how many gunmen there were, that he was killing people in the water, the decision to wait for non-police forces doesnt seem strange to me at all.

Yeah. this is plausible.
The response time of the police may well prove to be a tragic disgrace, but I don't see why it has become the shibboleth by which one's cop-loving gullibility or healthy scepticism should be judged.
Even if the cops had arrived with alacrity, Breivik would still have killed tens of youths. That's not disputed. The political and psychological aims of the massacre, whateer they prove to be, would still have been achieved. There is not some magical number of fatalities by which a madman's rampage crosses over to deep-political psyop.

So it's not how many kids who died that matters, it's whether it's a conspiracy?

You're a fatuous idiot. You know exactly what point I was making.

Sure, I do. But everyone here seems to be missing the point I am making. I'm not really considering what the greater ramifications of this attack are at the moment. I'm just pissed that the cops sat back and let a number of kids die, and then lied about it. And it bothers me a tad that I'm stranded on an island taking fire for this stance.

[Laodicean]

This is the current official timeline as provided by the cops the themselves!

What is your source that the Wikipedia article is the official police timeline? The events you are referencing seem to be sourced at your link to a Norweigian news website, Dagbladet.

It's insulting comments like this from you especially (bringing the "belief" thing from c_w's thread you locked) that make me not want to post here anymore.

Read through the post of yours I was responding to and decide for yourself if my mild sarcasm, if it can even be called that, was uncalled for. Personally, I thought I was demonstrating great patience. This argument has been going on for twenty-odd pages now, and seems no closer to settlement outside of some new evidence we have yet to see.

And, fwiw, the closest helicopter that the Contingency Platoon Delta has available to them is in Rygge, Moss. That is roughly twice the distance from Oslo to Utøya, and requires a standing fifteen-minute ready time. I pointed this out earlier in the thread, but apparently the logistics under examination by the authorities in the face of this incident failed to impress you. So be it.

You are not worth my time, barracuda. You really aren't. Have fun with your continued baiting of posters here with your so called "mild sarcasm". You can go fuck yourself.

A genuine thank you to the rest of the RI posters here who've shown what this place needs more of in their moderators - respect.

[JackRiddler]

.

First of all, MacC: thanks for that story with your baby. I'm happy it turned out as it did.

On that Norwegian lakeside, for example, the most ordinary people imaginable functioned remarkably well & efficiently as emergency search-and-rescue teams, not because they had worked out some ace hyperprofessional hotshot Contingency Plan in advance, but simply because they did the obvious when they realised that children were in mortal danger: they actually gave a damn and did their best to help them. Above all, quickly.

Well, consider that the ordinary people who were there incidentally responded so well precisely because they had no plans, no chain of command, no rules, no organization. They weren't trying to determine how many gunmen, or what weapons they may have had, or figuring out what to do if this or that, as a condition of their profession. They weren't listening to the radio for orders, they hadn't been trained all their lives to act only on orders. They weren't determining what equipment to take. They weren't asking what the protocols were, or if there was an official plan, or locating a topographical map, or whatever the cops and deltas might have been doing.

Have we landed in DU's 9/11 dungeon?

Come on. Message deleted? Dude?

.

[barracuda]

And it bothers me a tad that I'm stranded on an island taking fire for this stance.

In the context of this thread, that seems an unfortunate metaphor to choose.

[2012 Countdown]

Damn, don't go.

Peace.

[JackRiddler]

.

Okay, let's speculate: Gladio. Why is this new incarnation fingering Nazis?

.

[Harvey]

This is the current official timeline as provided by the cops the themselves!

What is your source that the Wikipedia article is the official police timeline? The events you are referencing seem to be sourced at your link to a Norweigian news website, Dagbladet.

It's insulting comments like this from you especially (bringing the "belief" thing from c_w's thread you locked) that make me not want to post here anymore.

Read through the post of yours I was responding to and decide for yourself if my mild sarcasm, if it can even be called that, was uncalled for. Personally, I thought I was demonstrating great patience. This argument has been going on for twenty-odd pages now, and seems no closer to settlement outside of some new evidence we have yet to see.

And, fwiw, the closest helicopter that the Contingency Platoon Delta has available to them is in Rygge, Moss. That is roughly twice the distance from Oslo to Utøya, and requires a standing fifteen-minute ready time. I pointed this out earlier in the thread, but apparently the logistics under examination by the authorities in the face of this incident failed to impress you. So be it.

You are not worth my time, barracuda. You really aren't. And neither is this place anymore from where I'm sitting. I've asked Jeff to delete my account. Have fun with your continued baiting of posters here with your so called "mild sarcasm". You can go fuck yourself.

A genuine thank you to the rest of the RI posters here who've shown what this place needs more of in their moderators - respect.

Cheers.

I hope you aren't sincere. You now why.

[Canadian_watcher]

I think this thread has provided ample evidence that the youngsters on Utøya were phoning and texting their friends and relatives within minutes of the shooting spree. Does anyone still disagree with this? If so, then do you think all the kids and parents who reported this are part of some massive conspiracy? If not, then how can you account for the fact that the police claim that they did not learn about the attack until the shooting spree had gone on for more than 19 minutes?

I'm going to give this a shot:

1. There are reports from the kids on the Island that they had trouble getting their cell calls through to anyone.

But there are also several reports of kids whose texts got through immediately. What do you think their parents were doing with that information?

okay.. I'm really not being flippant here and I want to state once more that I, like you, find the lag time between police awareness and police response unforgivable.. but..

Emergency call centers like 9/11 are staffed with the assumption that there will be a normal number of calls coming in. That day was far from a normal day. Given that there were probably only your average number of workers dealing with a million times more hysterical people than normal, do you think possibly it is reasonable to presume that there was some confusion that might contribute to calls not getting answered or lost calls or misunderstandings? In my life I've called 911 on only one occasion and my first call ended with them accidentally (I think) disconnecting me.

I'm absolutely positive that the parents were trying their best to get info through.. for sure. I guess I'm not 100% sure what you are alleging probably happened, because it is seeming like you are saying that all the cops chose to stand down, something I find hard to believe.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

Jack, well one obvious reason could be to intimidate leftleaning individuals and especially groups. Ive read that there will be another camp next year but understandably the mood will be grim, and I think a lot of people will think twice about gathering in large groups. Another reason: "lefties" have become very skeptical of islam terror, so why not choose a rightwing terror false flag. That way you have Al Qaeda as bogeyman for the rightleaning, and now the resurrected Knight Templars (!) as bogey for the leftleaning. Also, an event like this traumatises a whole nation for a long time, a nation that dared take its own course and be succesful at it. Also, it adds a lot of further polarisation and distraction.

[eyeno]

stickdog99 wrote:

Sure, I do. But everyone here seems to be missing the point I am making. I'm not really considering what the greater ramifications of this attack are at the moment. I'm just pissed that the cops sat back and let a number of kids die, and then lied about it. And it bothers me a tad that I'm stranded on an island taking fire for this stance.

Me too and it is irritating the hell out of me which is why I have not participated in this thread. Speculative intuition is half the engine that makes this forum run. I'm not sure why you are not allowed to engage in it stickdog but i'm sure i'll get a snipey reply from mods telling me differently. Not saying that I agree with your theory but I support your right to express it without being badgered about it.

It only takes one person in a key position to cause a "stand down" of a whole nation. 911 proved that. So, i'm open to your theory.

[seemslikeadream]

excuse me but I have a question...was there any security at all on the island?....was there someone with a gun, any kind of gun?....wasn't that head of state guy supposed to be there the next day......and no security?....forgive me if this has been covered I haven't kept up very well