The Army of God

[8bitagent]

It's an awkward position to be in right now.

I'll explain.

I am fiercely anti government, anti war, etc. Yet, these days the government positions itself as being pro gay. well I am also virulent with my pro gay rights views.
But today, a lot of the anti government folks are more on the right wing Christian anti gay side.
It's not Repent Amarillo or the Phelps bombing the hell out of village after village like the White House is doing. Yet, the white house isn't trying to ruin people's lives
in America with harassment due to being gay or a liberal activist.

These people scare me too in a way, I don't see them all too far removed from white nationalist/neo Nazi/Christian Identity networks. In fact, I'm surprised Phelps/Repent/etc don't openly advocate
racism since you know that has to be the underlying theme.

Anyways, it's hard...in a way I feel everyone should be displaying some vocal or other sign of grievance to the government over the continued neocon war/torture/defense/Orwellian TSA agenda...but at the same time I also can see why groups like this stir up way more anger with everyone.

Funny thing is, I can get right wing Christians to agree with me on a lot of things by the way I approach it. If I tell a hardliner super right fundie how I feel a Satanic globalist cabal controls the world and wants to bring about a one world government...they'd probably say "yep, damn straight".

If I told a liberal that, they'd laugh me out of the room. But if I say, word it as "a confluence of defense-financial-corporate oligarchs with transnational aspirations of oppression and economic/literal slavery" they'll buy it. It's...uh, all in the wording:)

[8bitagent]

Even "mainline" Christians believe in things I find revolting/contrary to basic decency.

Also, watch the facial twitches when you tell most white Christians that Chris would have most likely been very Arab looking given the geography. You realllly have to question the
intelligence of people who believe someone in an area like that would have been blonde haired/blue eye.

It also seems to me that the Christ they portray sounds more like a liberal hippy Lebowski dude trying to rally people to oppose the Satanic/Roman/money changer/elite slavery system...Christ if he were real or around today, would be opposed most likely to a lot of the American Christians.

[82_28]

December of 2001 I went to Denver for Xmas and was in a Borders store in the far suburbs shopping for people as we all do around that time. I was in the long line to check out and along the way were all sorts of trash contemporary politics (seriousness of terrorism) books all around, beckoning you to buy it on the way out. People around me, standing in line started talking about the subject of the day and all kinds of Osamas staring out at us from the book covers. It was an ominous time.

However, this is what essentially made me sick: a number of otherwise strangers struck up a conversation about this "terrorism". It was all ignorant, but here's what stuck out to me. An older dude piped up and said "Look at the them! They're all still wearing clothes from Bible times!"

Swear to god. It's been a long time but I must have slapped my forehead. Definitely shook my head though.

There's no explaining anything to anybody who thinks like that at default settings. . .

[Allegro]

.
The article I’m posting here is follow up to the essay wrt the Houston stadium rally, noted up thread, during which Rick Perry preached, and some 30,000 evangelicals fundamentalists apparently listened (and I don’t doubt “praised the Lord,” too). So, yeah, we are observing an increasing number of wealthy U.S. politicians’ participations within a global army devoted to a masculine deity or to “its son,” Jesus. *

Truthdig | August 8, 2011
Rick Perry to Run for President Starting This Weekend

The Texas governor will almost certainly launch a broadside against current GOP front-runner Mitt Romney this weekend when he takes the wraps off his campaign for president.

Perry has been the governor of Texas since George W. Bush handed over the reins in 2000 and currently presides over a catastrophic drought and a rather embarrassing budget deficit.

He is said to appeal to social conservatives and tea party types and could make a big splash in a GOP pool without many strong swimmers. —PZS


Los Angeles Times:

Perry “would have at least a 50-50 shot at beating him,” said Curt Anderson, a GOP consultant who worked for Romney previously but is not involved in his campaign.

The Texan has strong ties to both social conservatives and the party establishment, through his work as head of the Republican Governors Assn. He preached to more than 30,000 fundamentalist Christians over the weekend at a Houston stadium rally that showcased his religious beliefs.

He would be the only sitting governor in the GOP race and could count a lucrative fundraising base in his home state to get his campaign launched. Among the questions facing his candidacy, including his ability to perform on the national stage, will be the degree to which financial backers of former President George W. Bush, whose relations with Perry are cool, at best, will open their wallets to him.

_________________

More on the story | Los Angeles Times, August 9, 2011
Rick Perry to affirm plans for presidential bid
_________________

* Presently, the governor of Texas is Rick Perry, who spoke at a secret invite-only confab hosted by conservative billionaire Koch brothers. Reportedly, Perry's topics were job creation and the economy in Texas.

[82_28]

I just got done reading this at rudepundit, re: Rick Perry:

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2011/08/ ... -what.html

[Gnomad]

There's no explaining anything to anybody who thinks like that at default settings. . .

A serious reboot is needed.
I happen to have several relatives who are fundamentalist christians. Sometimes I find it really difficult to maintain my cool in social situations with them. Sometimes I haven't maintained it, and have questioned their views. Have also since long ago resigned from the church, and told them so. Sadly, I have no advice except try to. Every now and then, you can have a balanced inquiry into each others beliefs that will lead to better adaptation. It is worth trying, and trying to remember to be calm and detached when doing so. We are all a bit crazy and misinformed after all.

[crikkett]

I find the best thing is to question in an innocent tone, as if you've really never heard of what they're talking about. Of course this only works if they don't know your true position... Basically, act like you're from Mars so far as this stuff is concerned. Force them to unpack it and think about how to explain it to you. Sometimes they even enjoy Explaining It All to someone who (they think) genuinely has no clue. But the idea is they have to think about it too, and maybe with that thought will come doubt. I've seen people at least modify or even back off of extreme positions as a result, if only to avoid sounding like bigoted morons in my presence.

This works in my experience too.

Sometimes trading good-natured volleys of scripture works. I found that if you pretend to concede to the fundie they repeat the conversation to their fundie friends and in re-living their victory, help to spread your meme.

[Simulist]

There's no explaining anything to anybody who thinks like that at default settings. . .

A serious reboot is needed.
I happen to have several relatives who are fundamentalist christians. Sometimes I find it really difficult to maintain my cool in social situations with them. Sometimes I haven't maintained it, and have questioned their views. Have also since long ago resigned from the church, and told them so. Sadly, I have no advice except try to. Every now and then, you can have a balanced inquiry into each others beliefs that will lead to better adaptation. It is worth trying, and trying to remember to be calm and detached when doing so. We are all a bit crazy and misinformed after all.

"The fear of the Lord" is NOT "the beginning of wisdom" — but it is one of the cornerstones of delusion.

It's been my experience that fundamentalists are terrified. And it's easy to see why: their most essential beliefs, were they true (they aren't), would be enough to terrorize almost anyone.

And it's pretty hard to think (let alone rethink!) when you're terrified.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Also, freedom IS free or it's a semantically meaningless concept.

[Saurian Tail]

SEAL Families Remember Christian Warriors
By Mark Martin, CBN News Reporter, Wednesday, August 10, 2011

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. -- Family and friends gathered Thursday to honor the life of one the 30 fallen U.S. servicemen killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

U.S. Navy SEAL Kevin Houston, one of 22 SEALs who died in Saturday's insurgent attack upon a CH-47 Chinook helicopter, was memorialized in Virginia Beach, Va.

"He would often say, 'I'm at the tip of the spear. I'm right where I wanna be,'" Jarrod Paquette said of his friend.

As the nation grieves the loss of their fallen heros, family and friends are finding comfort in each other and local churches are stepping in to help heal the wounds.

The top American commander in Afghanistan just announced that international forces killed the Afghan insurgents responsible for shooting down the Chinook helicopter.

But the news comes as cold comfort to grieving loved-ones who, days after the tragedy, are still in shock.

"He died doing what he wanted to do," said Mikayla Dreyer, a friend of one of the men.

Just eight weeks ago, 30-year-old Aaron Vaughn witnessed the birth of his daughter. Now his wife Kimberly is left to raise their 2-year-old son and an infant.

"His last words to me were, 'I love you. I'll talk to you later.' And one day in heaven we will,'" she said.

Kimberly Vaughn told CNN that her husband was man with a deep Christian faith.

"A wonderful husband, and fabulous father to two wonderful children he was a warrior for Christ," she said.

Like the Vaughns, most of the 22 Navy SEALs who died lived in Virginia Beach with their families.

SEALs like Houston and Lou Langlais attended Atlantic Shores Baptist Church. This church and other churches are working around the clock to minister and pray with the grieving families.

"These guys are all men's men. They are strong and Kevin is fun and full of life, and in fact, recently he accepted Jesus Christ as his savior," said Kyle Wall, lead pastor of the church.

Wall spent the day praying with the families.

"It's going to be an inner process of healing from the Holy Spirit working in their lives. He is the only one that can bring true healing," Wall explained.

CBN News Military Correspondent Chuck Holton was recently embedded in Afghanistan with some of the SEALs who died in the crash.

"They are some of the most lethal human beings on the planet, but they are also very compassionate. And I think that's because they know that to be a good warrior they have to suppress the emotions of fear and anger and that sort of thing, but they never suppress the emotion of love. Because the best characteristics of love bring out the best characteristics in a warrior," he explained.

"They are tough, but even today I heard stories about them sharing their faith, sharing what God was doing in their life with their peers," Wall said.

And while the families are finding comfort in God, they also find comfort knowing these men died fighting for America -- a country they loved.

"These Navy SEALs, they don't do it for the medals or TV interviews or anything. They do it because it's the right thing to do," Vaughn said.

Memorial plans for the remaining service members have not yet been announced.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/Augu ... Warriors-/

[blanc]

I've never seen anything like this close up (we're divided by more than a common language). Looking from the outside
"It's been my experience that fundamentalists are terrified." strikes me as only part of it, that its fear and anger combined, the combination which usually leads to bullying.
What would happen if you asked "what are you afraid of actually?", and "who are you angry at actually?" and probed a bit to get beyond the knee-jerk response. Its not possible to present arguments to undo brainwashing in my experience, but sometimes is possible to enable an exploration of the underlying primal emotions.

[Pele'sDaughter]

I've never seen anything like this close up (we're divided by more than a common language). Looking from the outside
"It's been my experience that fundamentalists are terrified." strikes me as only part of it, that its fear and anger combined, the combination which usually leads to bullying.
What would happen if you asked "what are you afraid of actually?", and "who are you angry at actually?" and probed a bit to get beyond the knee-jerk response. Its not possible to present arguments to undo brainwashing in my experience, but sometimes is possible to enable an exploration of the underlying primal emotions.

At the heart of it seems to be fear of the deity they worship. After all, he is a jealous god who doesn't hesitate to show his anger.

[DrEvil]

I also think future shock might play a part in all this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_shock

I mean, I'm in my mid thirties and spend most of my time online, and I already feel like I'm falling behind.
I firmly believe that we are at a point in human history that has no precedent. For the first time in history we all have access to "everything" online. Even third world countries are catching up faster than was thought. (You don't need a computer to be online anymore, a smartphone does the job, and even if some third world kid can't afford an iphone today, they will in 5 years). Medicine is turning into "magic", with stem-cell therapies, printing livers and whatnot. Nano-tech is making great progress, quantum physics and alternate realities/world lines are turning into mainstream thought etc. Basically - the world is turning "weirder".
I can only imagine what the world must seem like to 50-60+ year olds who still have trouble figuring out that interweb thing, and that is in my opinion one of the reasons that so many seem to be "devolving" back to fundamentalist beliefs and conservative attitudes. The future is scaring the crap out of them because they can't understand it, so they cling extra hard to what they already know. ("Everything was better before").

And this : http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/au ... ws-murdoch

[Alaya]

Quote:

I can only imagine what the world must seem like to 50-60+ year olds who still have trouble figuring out that interweb thing, and that is in my opinion one of the reasons that so many seem to be "devolving" back to fundamentalist beliefs and conservative attitudes. The future is scaring the crap out of them because they can't understand it, so they cling extra hard to what they already know.

________________________________________

Whoa. Word. I am too much of this and it also bleeds into the personal level. I'm also noticing a lot of ignoring and smoothing things over with platitudes. With that I'm seeing people solidifying their positions in a fiercely closed-minded way.
It's just too damn scary for most. Scary because that's when fundamentalisms gain ground and take hold.

[blanc]

60yr olds grew up with parents who'd just fought WW2, and became the generation which broke with most of the old mores - don't quite get how fundamentalism could represent what we knew.